BEST CD TRANSPORT

Trn:  Keep us informed in this thread  as to how your repaired URD works.  The URD uses the JPL-2800 tray loader mechanism, and the CD88 servo board.  The CDPRO-8 variation is supposed to be an "upscale" mechanism.  My research is that the CDPRO-8 has most of the same "guts" as the JPL-2800; but it is housed in a CNC machined aluminum box.  Not sure this would lead to any significant sonic or reliability advantage.  As you might be aware, there are very few decent CD drive available for use in the high end.  Stream Unlimited, a Teac unit (not Esoteric), and maybe a few others.  Stream Unlimited is made up of the "gurus" that were doing the fine drives that Phillips made decades ago.  Schiit went with the Stream Unlimited drive and servo board - probably the best choice.  As to reliability, we will see.  My unit has just reached their repair department, and I am hoping for a long term fix.  I will update this thread.

As I understand it, the Urd also uses the Pro-8 (or a variant of it). I've been in contact with other Urd users who have had similar issues as mine and different issues such as what you're experiencing. I've found these users on many of the other forums (ASR, SBAF, Head-fi, etc). Some choose to live with their issues (for reasons I personally don't understand but, you do you.) I haven't read about any issues other than what seem to be drive issues. No one has an issue with the sonic performance of the unit (I don't either). It's sounds good when it plays.  

I received notice today that my unit has been repaired and shipped. Here is the accompanying service report.

"Replaced the tray motor's band, the CD drive control board, and made sure all of the Urd firmware is up to date.

Played multiple CD's without any issues."

We'll see if the problem has been resolved.

Trn:

I also have a Schiit URD.  It worked fine for a bit over 1 year, and then started to develop the "intermittent" play problem.  Finally, the CD drawer would not open, so I sent it to Schiit.  A solid unit with a Stream Unlimited drive and servo board.  You mention that others have had similar problems; any further comments about all this?  I found the sound to be very good with this transport, but I am wondering about the JPL-2800 drive mechanism durability, noting that a series of high end CD transports use this drive, or the CD PRO-8 (which seems to use most of the same "guts" as the 2800).

@trn - I suggest you follow up on looking at the CEC TL5 or TL2. I also had space issues and the CECs are quite compact and a minimum of space is needed due to the relatively low profiles. I have the TL5 and I am satisfied with the sound, but I really haven’t done any comparisons with the competition. I like the fact that the TL5 has a user replaceable belt, which may or may not be the case with the TL2. 

I didn't want a slot loader and didn't have the space for a top loader and the Teac sounds great.   

Not worried about the tray at all.   It's driven by a rubber band, that is usually what fails when it won't eject.  

Just to add to this: I bought an Urd a year ago (running it into Dac3 B via coax). The combo sounds quite good (comparing it to my Wadia 830 and a modded Oppo 105D). I also use the USB input of the Urd to run my streaming through to the Benchmark which is certainly handy.

But the Urd has gone to Schiit. For repair. Since day one, it only plays a disc upon close about 60% of the time. Open/close, open/close, maybe it plays, maybe it doesn't. Just annoying. (I'm not the only who has seen this odd behavior.) Otherwise, its a very good sounding unit (not really on par with the Wadia but close enough). 

Which has me back in the hunt for a transport (because I really don't have faith in Schiit getting it together, tbh.) Prior to selecting the Urd, I was looking at Pro-Ject, Jay's, Audiolab, CEC, Esoteric, and Teac, I didn't really want a slot loader (which might be a hangover from the car CD days - but the Pro-ject DS2 T uses a Stream 8 - surely it doesn't eat media). And I don't really have the rack space for a top loader, certainly not an RS2T.

Now I'm thinking maybe the DS2T is worth a try. But I'm also intrigued with CEC and belt drive. Drive isolation makes sense to me. And maybe, with most CEC models having the top-loading point at the very front edge, I might be able to load with minimal space above. 

https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2570169 Post regarding Esoteric.

I think their reputation/perception is better than reality. My K-07X transport has failed twice. When working or using its DAC, it sounds superb.

With the Jay's Audio CDT Mk 3 I have become enamored with the 4x upsampling toggle. I would now always prefer a transport that has such options.

The two players I currently use as CD Transports are REALLY not bad as CD Players either...

(1) Sony BDP-S2000ES

A true ES unit, no SACD, coax opt. digital outputs Great transport AND standalone CD player, Slow loading gen 1.5 Blu Ray player, but worth the wait.

(2) Harman Kardon CD-990

Coax/opt outs, also RCA / XLR analog outputs w twin internal AKM dacs. Suggest sound deadening of (under) top cover with Dyna-mat or Kilmat. Refined rendition of the classic HK sound signature (as a transport) after mod. Also capable of being used as a DAC (has digital inputs).

I won’t say these are giant killers, but they ARE a bit surprising as CD transports.

They have replaced an OPPO UDP-203 AND a Sony UBP-X1000ES used as transports in my rack; into a Schiit Gungnir Multibit A2 DAC.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Recently added a Sony SCD-XA5400 player to these (large rack). Now using native DACs (analog outs) of the HD 990 to clear both coax digital inputs for the Sonys.

The HK player with it's dual dac's has an excellent analog output btw, and also has

digital inputs so it can be used as a standalone dac. 

 Through the Gungnir into a Freya+ in tube mode the 2 Sonys are surprisingly close (and excellent) sounding to each other. Next step will be a Gungnir 2 DAC. Should be interesting!

I recently bought the Teac 701t and it's a great machine  ,  love it.  

Preowned Meridian 500 CD transport. 

Bought a Teac VRDS-701T CD transport on a whim to get back into my CD collection in storage; it has a version of Teac's VRDS mechanism - for what that's worth, I don’t know really. 

What I DO know is that its sound is better than what I get streaming from a Lumin P1, and on par mostly with what I get from my Linn LP12 Selekt TT with a $2K Grado cart.

Who knew? Lol not me that's for sure!

Thanks @nonoise 

That is an impressive looking transport. Another High End European CD transport utilizing the Stream Unlimited CD Pro-8 drive . This is why I've viewed the RS2T as a "" relative " bargain. The other European brands with this drive unit are 10K USD and higher. I am not suggesting that just this top load Stream Unlimited drive  unit is all that matters, But it is a fundamentally important aspect contributing to a high quality CD transport. It is well thought out in addressing vibration and resonance issues.

Charles

I came across this new CDT that uses the CD-PRO-8 transport from Audio Phonique, from Poland. pg

The sad thing is I don't think most here can afford it but it's nice to see what can be obtained. It's not on their website yet.

All the best,
Nonoise

For the people who recommended the PS Audio SACD Transport - any concerns about the reliability of the transport mechanism? I read in another thread that it uses a Denon & Marantz drive which is supposed to be more reliable than the cheap drive used in the older PS Audio transport.

I’m looking to replace my 20 year old Accustic Arts CDP which does have a top loading drive. I’m considering the PS Audio transport and their new DirectStream MKII. It would be an easier choice if PS Audio used a top loading drive.

@fastcat95

Wise choice for Schitt.

Gryphon, Audionet, Aqua HiFii (La Diva MK II) and Acustic Arts Audio have all chosen the latest Stream Unlimited CD PRO CD-8 top loading drive mechanism/assembly unit.

Charles

Charles; you hit it on the head.  The Stream unlimited drives and servo boards are about the best that can be had (except in the case of very expensive transports), and if the output electronics are well done, the sound is quite good.  This is why Schiit uses them in the URD transport.

@cdc 

I believe that the main distinguishing attribute contributing to the high level of sound quality by the RS2T is the utilization of the Stream Unlimited CD PRO-8 top loading drive unit with its integrated Blue Tiger servo. I strongly suspect this is the major factor.

Charles 

charles1dad

Good points. In the case of Pro-ject, an interesting experiment would be compare the DS2T withe external p-s to the stock Rs2T.

I don't believe that all wall wart SMPS (Switching  mode power supplies) are the same. Like literally everything concerning audio it depends on the level of execution/implementation. The Pro-Ject RS2T transport comes standard with a wall wart power supply (SMPS)  and sounds fabulous. Better than my really fine P.S.Audio PWT which has a linear power supply (LPS).

Yes you can further improve the. RS2T with a good quality external LPS.  A nice option but by no means mandatory. The stock SMPS  with the RS2T is very well done.

Charles

Just keep in mind some really expensive transports (and DAC's) use junk wall-wort p-s and you will need to buy an extra box to get a real power supply.

It appears that TEAC has recently released the VRDS 701TB CD Transport. The US MSRP is  ~$2700. Has anyone heard this TEAC transport? I'm interested in how this compares sonically to the Jays Audio CDT2 Mk3, and the CEC TL5. 

Where can I get a brand new Pro-Ject RS2 transport? It seems like no one has one in stock…

The beauty of the manual loading trays is that they don't wear out. The internal mechanism guiding the laser will though. Probably the optical unit itself will wear out first though. I would advise anyone just now buying a unit to purchase extra optical units. They can be found on Ebay and such, and there are Youtube videos showing how to replace.

By the way, I am not suggesting that these Transports and DACs in the $5,000.00 range are equal in quality or performance to the units costing 2-5 times more.

Here’s an interesting CD transport story. I purchased a Wadia 270 transport in 1999. A year or two later I had it upgraded by Steve Huntley at Great Northern Sound. While he was in there he replaced the transport mechanism with a new transport from a Wadia 270SE which he had on hand. I was there in person when he made the swap.

Remarkably this transport continues to read CDs but now the CD drawer occasionally fails to open. Only problem I’ve had with this transport. I believe these transport mechanisms were made by TEAC.

This a remarkable record for any CD transport. Built like a virtual tank and always sounds excellent. Actually contemplating repair if possible.

Was originally paired with a Wadia 27i DAC which is long gone.

PS: Great Northern replaced a lot of caps with Black Gate electrolytics. At this age do you think they should be checked?

@willywonka : unless switched to up sampling (172/24 or 4x), which everyone would do with these units. Including myself.

Copy / paste :

I don’t know what effect this dither will have on the performance of D/A processors that are connected to the Jay’s CDT3-MK3, but it will limit the effective resolution of CDs played with the transport to closer to 15 bits rather than the 16 available on disc. By contrast, the upsampled output is bit-perfect with 16-bit CD data. Both types of output offer low jitter and well-resolved eye patterns, coupled with excellent error correction.—John Atkinson

Stereophile Review of CDT3 Mk3

I suggest that everyone interested in this CD Transport read Atkinson's review. It was not at all unflattering, and the final note on bits was that engaging the 4x upsampler captured all the bits which is why I run in that mode. I can see why the manufacturer put an in-your-face toggle switch on the machine rather than try to use an array of buttons. This strategy tells the owner to "looky here" at this switch and try it.

@bolong Did you see the review on the Jay's Audio CDT3-MK3 in the May edition of Stereophile? John Atkinson's measurements were not very flattering! Because of the high noise it only offered 15 bits of information to the DAC versus 16 bit. It may sound good but this would be concerning to me.

Adding to the other perspective, sometimes a great CDP or SACD player can make a great transport. It all depends on who made it and what their design criteria was/is.

My Technics SL-G700 SACD player is used as a CDT for CDs using its Toslink out and the RCA outs are used only when playing SACDs. The sound I get with CDs can be breathtaking compared to my old Marantz Reference CDP.

All the best,
Nonoise

Hey hybrids, I could like those too (with a second mortgage on my house).

I am using an Audio Note UK CDT2/II though and I like it just fine.

I have both the Jay's CDT2 Mk3 and CDT3 Mk3 - both good units. The most important thing I learned after graduating to these more capable players is that using good CD-R's (I am using "Maxell for Music" blanks) and using .wav files burned onto them at the "slow" speed on my desktop computer can make a big difference in sound quality.

Wish I'd known this before ordering my Jay's! Not one review I read mentioned the forward aspect. In my system, I found it quite fatiguing

Humm, I don't find the Jays CDT2 MK3 bright or forward. Not at all. I don't use silver interconnects and the Qutest DAC isn't extremely forward either, not like some ESS Dacs.

I guess it's a total system thing - but my Jay's is strong in bass and pretty even otherwise. Sorry, it's not to your liking.

The jays MKII was also a very good transport. It is more forward sounding than the Pro-Ject and the Audiomeca so it sounds a little faster. 

Wish I'd known this before ordering my Jay's! Not one review I read mentioned the forward aspect. In my system, I found it quite fatiguing until I eliminated silver cabling and changed out the Symposium Roller Block footers. I can't imagine pairing the Jay's with a "surgical" DAC -- a tubed DAC would probably be ideal.  

I typically don't buy anything without a return option and this experience has reinforced my intention to not break my own rule, again. Having said that, I'm not sure what other transport I would've worked, at the price point, as I did not care for the ergonomics of the pro-ject.  

I have several excellent CD players and just bought the Audiolab 9000CDT and it is truly wonderful machine, very well built and with superior performance.

The Atoll DR200 Signature and the two newcommers, the Schiit URD and Shanling ET-3, are also interesting - all at reasonable prices for well designed CD transports.

Well, post didn't delete when I 1st did it, however gone now. 

@thyname 

+1

@mesch  you can delete your message regardless of when you posted. Just hit the little wheels icon (top right of your post), and then "delete" from the drop down.

The only one that has a time limit for 30 minutes is the other option, the "edit"

Tried that, message said that post can't be deleted after 30 mins.  Didn't see it soon enough.

@mesch

Then delete the extra post. That is what that little wheels icon is for.

Yes, $2500. I hate the double posts. Didn't see the 1st, Thought I exited prior to actually posting. 

I understand the 'once and done' thing for avoidance of regret. I have several component projects under consideration, starting at the source. My Cambridge CXC being the weakest link. I am confident either of Jay's transports would serve as an upgrade. Would likely upgrade my DAC next.   

I have talked to Tekaudio and will likely purchase from them. 

mesch 3,258 posts 07-13-2023 at 11:37am I am considering the Jays CDT2-MK3 or the CDT3. $2500 vs. $5000, hummm...

mesch 3,258 posts 07-13-2023 at 11:40am I am considering the Jays CDT2 MK3 or the CDT3. $2000 vs. $5000, humm...

It will largely depend on the rest of your system (whether "up to task"), and most importantly, your budget. I personally went directly to the CDT3-MK3, so I don’t know. What I know is I will not have regrets in the future. Once and done. People who have had them both I have "met" online say there is a significant improvement going from the CDT2 to the CDT3, but there is no way for me to verify those impressions.

By the way, you had it right the first time. The CDT2 is $2,500. You can buy them through the US distributor here: https://www.tekaudiospecialties.com/jay-s-audio

I am considering the Jays CDT2-MK3 or the  CDT3. $2500 vs. $5000, hummm...

Good: I've had the Cambridge Audio CXC... it was good.

Better: I got the Audiolab CDT6000... it was better

Best: I now have the Jay's Audio CDT2-MK3... it's fantastic!

All three using the same DAC and cables.

The new Schiit URD transport is now out.

And the Shanling ET3 is on sale now too.

I can't imagine them being better than the Jay's. But who knows??

hybrids,

I would like those Audio Note UK components too, if I was a millionaire.

A few weeks ago, I bought a Audiolab 9000 CDT and it is fantastic: amazing sound, great built and fair price. I have several good CD players and CD transports, but the 9000 CDT presents the music in a special way, very detailed, smooth and engaging.

So far, I have paired it with two dacs: the Denafrips Pontus II and Opera Consonance DAC16, with excellent results.

Some days ago arrived on the market another interesting machine, the Shanling ET3 CD transport, a top loading type with upsampling capacity and I2S output:

https://darko.audio/2023/06/shanlings-et3-cd-transport-comes-with-two-twists/