Onhwy61,
I misread your post... about the age thing.
I have never been that impressed with EC thats just my opinion. I think he is a VERY GOOD guitarist but not that
great. If you do... Then great.. Im sure you would disagree
with some of my pics and thats fine with me...
Im not sure if i have heard the Mayall/Clapton Beano album
but i will make a point to pick it up... I do have an open
mind and im not out to put anyone down. I respect most who
play the instrument because it is not an easy one... I also
respect that you have your own opinion just like me.
|
Voodoochile, who said anything about age? I was referring to their individual guitar styles. To call Clapton "watered down" is an extreme statement. "Have You Heard" the Mayall/Clapton Beano album? |
Onhwy61,
Im talking more about music itself more so than age..
I really think those people i mentioned are the blues.
Im also a big Jimmy Page fan... He was heavily influenced
from blues also... But is he a blues man? Not in my book..
Just like EC.
Bottom line personally Im glad that there are MANY
different styles and variations.. I just think some are
more truthful to the roots.
For me SRV is probably the hardest too play he played the
guitar with so much emotion... Its really the funnest to
play also..
Happy holidays to everyone! |
What about Duane Allman? True he is classed as a great rock & roll guitar player, but he could make that Les Paul of his cry "wit da blues" in a lot of his live performances; especially just before his untimely passing. IMHO, his licks were far sweeter and poignant that anything Clapton was doing in those days. The first time I went to see Eric Clapton in 1975 or so as a headliner, he had Ben E. King as a sideman playing with him. When Clapton hit the stage he was so intoxicated all he could do was keep roaring: "I'm so f***ing drunk". Thank God Ben E. was there to handle the guitar chores. It wasn't until 6 or 7 years later when I caved, and went to see him playing lead guitar for Roger Waters on his Pros and Cons of Hitchiking tour did I get to see what he is capable of. All in all, while I dont't believe Duane Allman to be the "best" blues player, he could dust Eric Clapton any old day. |
Voodoochile, the people you lump together as old school cover a huge range. I would argue that the leap from Robert Johnson to Albert King is far greater than that from Albert/B.B. to Eric Clapton. For the vast majority of his long career EC is clearly a rocker, but in his youth with John Mayall and later the Immediate All-Stars (Jimmy Page et. al.) showed him to be an accomplished and significant blues artist. The fact that Clapton currently doesn't play with the intensity he had when he was 19 shouldn't be held against him. |
I have a little different take on this whole subject..
I do play guitar myself (25 years)so i have MAJOR appreciation for all the artist mentioned here. The point i will make is if it wasnt for the blues (old school) Robert Johnson, Albert King Ect.. There wouldent be rock and roll as we know it. Now Eric Clapton is a very good guitar player
but he plays a "watered down" and "mutated" version of the REAL thing when he decides he's gonna play the blues. Dont
get me wrong i think EC is great but he's not a blues guy.
Its my opinion SRV did the best job of "preserving" the
blues while modernizing and speeding it up... i also have
seen both EC and SRV live and think SRV would beat EC playing behind his back. That boy could play... Hendrix
was more of a innovator. The only rock and roll guitar player i can think of that doesnt sound like he's playing
blues scales even when he is Eddie VH. Another innovator...
Robert Johnson, Albert king, BB king ect those guys were
blues artists EVERY SONG they play is the real thing.
Just my two cents... |
Rel2, thanks for the background info on Peter Green. You're absolutely right, there's something magical about British guitarists. BTW, do you know who does the slick guitar riffs for Alan Parsens? |
Already mentioned. Acoustic guitar master; knows what and why for each and every note played. |
Hey, what about Robert Johnson? Or is that going back too far? He's the blues man. |
It was 1967. I never saw the Who. The Yardbirds were in the movie Blow Up, the Who turned it down. The Beck/Page duo
recorded only four songs ( one being a radio commercial for
great shakes drink). |
WOW, Beck AND Page + Yardbirds 1969, Mam, those were the days! Indeed! Did you happen to see the Who as well in England? I never had the chance to see the Who, especially their Quadrophinia tour, heard it on King Biscuit Flower hour, very nice live. |
I saw the 1969 Rolling Stones concert with Mick Taylor, it
was the most god awful concert (old Spectrum, Philly). The only redeeming factor was that BB King was the opening act.
I saw in England in 1969 the Rolling Stones, they were god awful. The only redeeming factor was the Yardbirds with BOTH Jeff Beck AND Jimmy Page was the opening act. They put the Rolling Stones to shame. Eric has repeatedly stated he will not reform Cream with Jack Bruce. |
Cream was a collaborative effort, especially "Fresh Cream", but ultimately, if it was anybody's band it was Jack Bruce's. As his career moved on, Bruce was able to recreate the Cream sound with other musicians, in particular Gary Moore, but Clapton never sounded the same. In his defense I believe Clapton would argue that he never wanted to sound like Cream again.
Regarding Mick Taylor, the Stones were a very capable band before Taylor and even now they can still rock as well as anyone, but their level of musicianship peaked during the Taylor years. No, he wasn't the creative equal of the Jagger/Richards duo, but it's widely reported that he was denied numerous writing and producing credits during his stay with the Stones. |
So Jack Bruce driving force behind Cream, would you agree that Mick Taylor was the driving force behind Stones when he was a member? Yes, not jagger. About Derek and Dominios, seems from the comments you make about Clapton, then Duane + Clapton , both were inspired by each others playing. Remember Clapton had found a deep love at this time, Love inspires. But got to say Duane was an unbelievable blues player. The Allman Brothers 1972 concert at the New Orleans wharehouse was unbelievable from reports heard, played til 5 or 6AM!! I missed it, too young. |
Captpenny: I agree with you on Mike Bloomfield; you got to
here him with Muddy Waters on the Fathers and Sons album
a true knockout blues album if there ever was one. |
Clapton was a bore after "Derek and the Dominos". I've seen him live several times; only time he was any good was when he was playing with a four piece band (inc him) and the drummer was Phil Collins. Eric had to really work on that tour; no backup guitar players to fill in.
Ever wonder why there was no Cream reunion? Probably because Jack Bruce was the creative force in that band. Clapton and his handlers wanted to ensure that that ugly little truth from the past stayed in history.
He wrote almost all the tunes and sang them. Clapton contributed a few tunes and that was it. His most famous was a collaboration with George Harrison called "Badge". Clapton was/is an excellent rock and roll/blues guitar player and mediocre vocalist and songwriter (Wonderful tonight....puh..lease!). His best work as a solo artist was the dual album "Layla and Other Love Songs". Duane Allman was a guest on that album. |
check out Steve Kimock playing "End of The World Blues" with Zero...lots of high quality digital tapes around of this band. Kimock soars. |
Neither. Go back children to the late 60's and listen to Mike Bloomfield, especially with the Paul Butterfield Blues Band. Mike has been an inspiration to many quitarists, such as Robbin Ford. Many wantabe's don't even know who he is but the real players surely do. He is one of the creators not imitataors. "With out our musical forfathers, none of us would be here" Quote...Robbin Ford. I agree, for he has been an insperation to me. |
Didn't Peter Green go into some sort of drug induced reclusion some years ago, and just recently (in the past 2 or 3 years) come out of it and light things up with some new tunes?
I can't say who is best, it is like trying to pick the best running back, "on any given Sunday....!" I'm sure all of the above-mentioned performers have had magical nights, where they would make your hair stand up. For me, one of those nights was seeing two of my favorites playing together on the same stage at the Palace of Auburn Hills - Eric Clapton and SRV - WOW, what a rush!!
For those who question Jimi's blues, try listening to:
Jimi Hendrix:Blues
Some other interesting blues guitar selections:
Otis Rush - Mourning in the Morning
Alvin Bishop - playing w/Paul Butterfield on "The Resurrection of Pigboy Crabshaw
Robin Trower - Someday Blues
Eric Clapton - E.C. Was Here ("Have You Ever Loved a Woman" is a personal favorite)
Buddy Guy - Buddy's Baddest (greatest hits)
and for some serious house rockin blues guitar,
Showdown! - with Albert Collins, Robert Cray and Johnny Copeland
its all good |
Texan blueser Johnny Winter played his share of very complex passages. Had a great sounding guitar, and could really sing dem' blues. Surprised no one mention Johnny. Peter Green was definetly a great pure blues player. BTW the driving force behind the Stones was blues player Mick Taylor, but of cource he had to tone down for Mick's big ego. |
To those that responded that EC is not a "blues" player, give a listen to the EC and BB King album Riding With the King. Especially on vinyl! Goose Bumps! |
Muddy Waters
Buddy Guy
YES, Jimi Hendrix was a blues guitarist. From whom did he learn? In whose band did he play? Buddy Guy!
Eric Clapton and some other names are great "blues-style" guitarists, but are not "blues guitarists." |
John Cippolina, now there was an interesting musician. How about "The Fool"? |
Stevie Ray Vaughn vs Eric Clapton - I have read through this thread and am amazed at the SRV fans. I can't help but to remember when I heard both SRV and Clapton (live) within a month of each other at the same venue in the late 80s. I'm sorry SRV fans but in comparison SRV sucked! It was so bad that I considered leaving. I don't know if this was around the time Stevie was bottoming out on booze, but he was really bad. Clapton, on the other hand, was great(I've seen him 4 times in concert). Incidentally, I saw SRV first. I was looking forward to SRV as I liked his albums, and his reputation as a great guitarist was building by then. Albums aside, nothing shows what a musician is really made of but a live concert. |
How about Quicksilver Messenger Service's version of Happy Trails??? |
I wouldn't call Hendrix a blues guitarist by any means. He could certainly play a blues and add his specialness to what he played; witness Red House and Voodoo Chile but he did not front a blues repertoire and that was the focus of this question.
In my humble opinion, many of the responders to this question are including fringe blues players that are really more rock n roll. Blues is more than a few songs it's also a lifestyle for the men and women who can really be called blues players. To me, the artists that have had longevity and consistency with the style rather than exploring other genre better fit the question being asked.
I saw BB king in the 60s and again last year, he epitomizes the consistency I'm referring to.
REL2 |
Roy Rogers was Trigger happy. Happy Trails.....
REL2 |
I see a lot of names tossed out here, but I wonder what standards people are using to pick their favorites. The biggest factor will always probably be "goosebumps" -- or who *moves* you the most?
Maybe we can fine-tune (or broaden) the question with some more specific questions, like:
Who's the "smartest" blues player (twists up chords and scales)?
Who's consistently best over a broad range of styles?
Who's got the best tone?
Who's got the best technique?
Who's the most soulful?
Who's broken the most ground, or is the most innovative?
Who plays it best like it "should" be?
Who can play with the most subtlety?
Who can play with the most ooomph?
Who's king of the telecaster/stratocaster/les paul/acoustic?
The list could go on, but for me I think it would take many, many names to cover the bases above. No one takes the gold medal in my book! |
For you blues afficionados, how does Roy Rogers rate in the scheme of things? |
IMHO, Hendrix and Stevie Ray Vaughn. |
Bobgates,
Green was the founder/cofounder of the original Fleetwood Mac. He wrote Black Magic Woman (which Santana took even higher) and many other memorable pieces like the Green Manalishi and Albatross (hello Santo and Johnnie). There is something of a mystique around Mr.green due to the fact that he went from a mediocre guitar player to a wunderkind in a remarkably short period of time. Some people because of his interest in Robert Johnson, compared him to the Johnson myth that he had sold his soul to the devil in return for skill and fame. Whatever, he could make a guitar cry like nobody else. He had a distinctive style as did Clapton and a few others in those early years of English white blues players. You can learn a lot more about him from the liner notes in the many CD compilations out there like "The Vaudeville years" and "Showbiz Blues". Also check out Mick Fleetwoods book about the early Mac years (How do you spell decadent?) Hope this fills him out a little.
One last thing, Peter still tours occasionally. Go the distance to hear him if you want to hear the closest possible interpretation of Robert Johnsons' acoustic blues left on our planet. It can make the hair on your arms start to curl. |
Shubertmaniac makes a good point about Muddy Waters. He was the real thing. I saw him twice in Chicagos' South side in the mid 60s.
I had the opportunity to meet and get to know Jeff Beck for awhile in 1969. What was interesting was getting to know him in a non musical way. He was in Detroit at the time recording with Stevie Wonder at Motown and during his off time, he was haunting hot rod and speed shops to repair his collection. I was working at such a shop and immediately recognized him when he came in. I eagerly began talking to him and ended up punching out the clock and taking him around town the next few days to visit speed shops and car museums, etc. He showed me how to play his version of Greensleeves on a black Les Paul he was carrying at the time. I'll never forget those times, very special. I would add that of the guitarists that Shubertmaniac mentions, Green struck me the most as the one trying to interpret the blues from a more traditional perspective. It became even more obvious from his recent acoustic work and exhaustive interpretation of the Robert Johnson catalogue. I find it difficult to tell that he is white when I listen to his vocals of late. Still, Clapton brought more immediacy to the blacker blues when he was with Mayall, very nice stuff.Just my opinion and I certainly respect the other comments being written for this thread.
REL2 |
Unless you have seen Muddy Waters play , which I have, there is nobody, and I mean nobody, who can convey the blues on electric guitar better except and this is a big maybe is BB King. Now if you want to consider acoustic guitar, then maybe Robert Johnson. I saw in the late 60s,
Peter Green, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Jimmy Hendrix, and
Jeff Beck, and although these guys could wail up a storm,
personally I think Eric tried the hardest to emulate a truly blues style. His take on Chester Burnett's(Howlin' Wolf) Smokestack Lightning with the Yardbirds was the best of the derivative blues style. And of course his take on Willie Dixon's Spoonful was masterful and obviously he took Robert Johnson's Crossroad Blues and made it his own. |
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Nobody can stand in the same room with Hendrix. Clapton is a very good knock off. Muddy Waters is up on the top of my list also. Long distance call live is just too much.
Tim |
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Geez, even Muddy himslef would have admitted that he wasn't the greatest guitarist around. Credit should be given to Jimmy Rogers, Pat Hare, Buddy Guy for their guitar work with Muddy Waters. Now if you want to talk about the greatest voice in the blues, and mention Mr. Waters, I'm with you. Good day. |
Not sure Blues music has (or should have) real stictly defined boundries. To claim that one guitarist is the BEST could put some heavy blinders on the concluder. A few other greats that I haven't seen mention of:
Eddie Guitar Slim, SRV and Zappa were big fans. You might be too if you like the ice pick to the forehead tone later employed by Albert Collins. You can hear him alot in F.Z's playing. Unfortunately, he died from the hard life way too young.
Roy Gaines is good too, Okie Dokie Stomp from his Gainlining Lp is a wild adrenaline hurricane that's fun to go back to.
Jean Paul Bourelly, He's put out a ton of stuff and I haven't heard alot of it, but the Rock the Cathartic Spirit release explores the slow lysergic blues area Hendrix touched on as well as anything I've heard (an amazingly well recorded disc).
David Fiuczynski does highly intoxicating Blues warpage, he's criminally under recognized and waayyy too good to be left out of this kind of thread. Might want to start w/ Lunar Crush or Amandala. |
Albert King and Muddy Waters must be mentioned here. Anything live by either artist will let you know what the blues is all about. I prefer the LPs. THey have music on both sides! |
another vote for SRV watch his Austin City limits performances they are awesome.
also try Buddy Guy he plays with emotions |
I have had the privelege of seeing and hearing Peter Green and Eric Clapton many times. I saw Green with the first Fleetwood Mac tour in the 60s. Clapton several times with each of his incarnations starting with Cream (5X). Green has been my favorite white blues guitarist since the first time I heard him but I cannot disagree with the other contributors that the great black guitarists played from another dimension. No race owns the blues but playing them and feeling them are obviously not the same thing and invariably, in my experience,white musicians have more often played them. Robert Johnson would be my top nomination for sheer creativity and interpretation. |
Never got to see Stevie in concert, but for my money he is the blues guitar king. If you ever saw the Austin City Limits featuring SRV you would be picking your jaw up off the ground. He was truly one with his instrument. |
Playing blues is very easy, making it sound "real" is very difficult. It's about touch and feel. Peter Green sweats these qualities and caresses every note with them. This is why he is so well respected by other guitarist. It's not flashy, but it's shot full of soul.
Not to sound flippant, but you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a great player and they should all be appreciated for their individual talent.
BTW, back in 1977-78 I lived across the street from Duke Robbilard in Providence. He was fronting Roomful Of Blues and he was heavily into T-Bone. It's was so cool to listen to this talented person practice. Even his mistakes sounded good. |
Pbb, I fully, wholeheartedly, subscribe to your last sentence.
Great blues guitarists manage to communicate playing even a single note on the guitar...
You saw G. Brown live -- lucky devil! |
Piezo,
I saw B.B. King last summer at the Molson Centre here in Montreal. He has to do his show sitting down now, but, believe me, there is still magic there. A so called music critic in "La Presse", a French daily here, harpooned him. He had no idea who B.B. King is, and what the blues are, kept referring to him as "pappy" (French from the other side of the pond for "grandpa") and was amazed that the crowd was ecstatic. That tells you something about what a person needs to know to be a music critic, at least in Québec. I couldn't find time to write a "shocked and appalled" letter to the editor, I guess that's why I'm going on about this now. How could I forget Gatemouth Brown. I saw him in a local club two or three winters ago. Still an amazing musician at his age. There are so many blues guitarists out there, it's sort of like writing in a way, just about everyone can write, very few are Hemingway or Steinbeck though. In my mind, it takes more than dexterity (read blinding speed) and tone to be a blues guitarist, it takes a whole lot of soul. Regards. |
It's good to see that as this thread progressed some real players got mentioned. At first the SRV, Buddy Guy thing (and all the vaunabees out there..man i'm sick of the texas shuffle), had me agreeing with sdcambell that ya'll need to get out more. I'll admit though I did see buddy with james cotton at Antones in about 1989 where he just killed but them days seem to be gone. Green gets hyped all the time in guitar player mag and elsewhere but while i agree he can play i just don't get where he is so great..maybe its that early influence thing. Clapton i never got. HDM mentioned thackery but never seen him live...been there about 4 or 5 times and i've seen him morph into hendrix, not just a lick copier but pour'n it out with the same feel and heart that Jimi had and what a killer tone. Coco Montoya, taught buitar by albert collins and nurtured by John Mayhall, is another killer player though his later discs are weak song wise. Another guy you must check out is Gatemouth Brown, he swings his a** off. Little Charlie from the Nightcats nails the west coast jump blues thing. John Mooney whips up a Delta/New Orleans tinged slide brew that will knock you socks off. Already mentioned guys who can smoke clapton or green: Duke Robillard, Ronnie Earl (though the live show i saw was pretty weak), and Robben Ford (the one true guitar god IMO, who cites Bloomfield as a big influence). Then there is BB. I've seen a lot of the famous blues players over the last 15 years and while others may out play the King Ive never felt more of a presence come off of a stage than seeing BB from about 10 ft away at the New Orleans Jazz Fest in the late 80's. WOW! The truely best player? The one that gets YOU in that happy place with the ole feet jus tappin away. If you can't dig the blues you got a hole in your soul! peace. |
B.B. King is THE MAN. Even in his later years, the music is still there. Otis Rush and Duke Robillard, for different reasons, are up there too. I don't necessarily agree that Clapton is God. SRV and Roy Buchanan are, unfortunately, no longer with us (such a polite expression...), but are certainly in the list of gone but not forgotten. No women in the list, to rectify that I would have to add Joanna Connor, nice to see and hear a Les Paul well played, it's a change from all the Strats. |
Does anyone know of any DVD of SRV at Alpine Valley show |
Such a Tough question, Green, has had some great moments, listen to the early Fleetwood Mac. And no one can deny The Yardbirds and Mayhall with Clapton. I'm a long time Guitarist, Vintage Collector and Blues enthusiast, both are both great in different ways. Don't forget Mike Bloomfield. We can debate all day on who is the best, and I see others involving SRV, and newer players. First look at the Black original Blues players, then the White English players in the 60's that revived the Blues and made it mainstream acceptable, then Hendrix took it to extremes. When rock, Jazz and Fusion took over, SRV brought blues into the mainstream once again in the 80's as the English players did in the 60's. We would have to start a page alone for this topic. |
Great question! Haven't thought of Blues guitarists in a "best of" sense, but Clapton isn't really a "blues" guitarist in the truest sense. Hendrix was the best rock guitar player, bar none, but also wasn't strictly a blues player (though his blues was excellent -- his Blues CD is outstanding). SRV was a tremendous player and was true to the blues, and sounded like he could do anything on the guitar. I don't know if any other guitarist has ever done as much as SRV in the past 20 years in terms of revolutionizing guitar "tone". Two guitarists who, if I were "cuttin' heads" and did NOT want to go up against: (1) Albert King; and (2) Ry Cooder. |
