Bass at your ears? (Bass imaging)

Ok, played that song on my system and have to say it’s ridiculous to even try to discuss something so inherently electronic and studio manufactured.  Completely unnatural sounding...the word techno scrap comes to mind. I’ve heard some super low frequencies on Kpop songs that at least have some acoustical merit in support of the song and are better recorded.  Low frequency electronic oscillations are great for woofer break in but not for music...certainly not as a system check of any sort!

What I mean is, the imaging of the bass is so good that you feel it right at your ears even though you are sitting 12 feet away from the speakers. And this is an electronic bass... not bass from a musician in the song. That kind of bass is of course well reproduced as you would expect.
Listen to the song on high end speakers and you might get the same effect.

Meant to ask.  What do you mean by bass at your ears?  I thought you want to create distance and sound stage in order to visualize the artist playing between the speakers.  If you want bass at your ears buy a good pair of headphones and then good luck with hearing staging.

I like the way REL designed their high level connection.  They really act as an additional woofer and they are not detectable if you set them up right.  It is also important to play two instead of one for room balance and for staging.  All you want to do is to be able all that is there in a recording.  Nothing worse than boom boxes.  Like the guy I purchased my ARCAM from, he refers to them as trunk slammers.  

jetter, thank you for the thoughtful post. My observation was terse, so apologies for offense as though I was disdaining budget audiophiles. 

I played the song referenced by OP. Strange song; at first I was thinking, "What bass?" When it finally showed up, the pulsating character was evident. Seems there is also manipulation of the frequency spectrum, the lower midrange downward is introduced, then removed along with the pulsing. Sounds very phasey.  

Tried playing this song on the main system... I'll have to try it earlier in the day.  Sorry neighbors! Sounded like my house was trying to tear itself apart. 

The bassline on that recording is a form of "wobble bass", which in and of itself does not explain the "claustrophobic" sensation. The size of the acoustic space is conveyed by the reverberation. A small space is conveyed by rapid onset and rapid decay of the reverberation.

If you’ve ever watched a scene where someone is in a box or buried alive and you can hear/feel how claustrophobic the tiny space is, it’s because that spatial information is on the recording.

Kudos to Magico for their speakers reproducing this effect spookily well, but they are not necessarily unique in their ability to do so.

Duke

Also, superbly clean bass is qualitatively much different to the ears than even good bass.

Here in Seattle superbly clean bass is no longer an option. It is completely sterilized. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367

@millercarbon

China Virus???

^^^^
thx for that post.

Wobble Bass Effect.

Like I said here yesterday further up in the thread.
Sounds like headphones on my current project speakers.
these ones. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bWczGnLKZkZoKiMz5

No issues with the eardrums. Synthesizer produced coming from the source material.

If the speakers have large drivers with large cabinets, and are fairly efficient, the effect can be produced at quite low db levels with the speakers in near field, in a large room - room acoustics do not need to come into play. fwiw - This confirms to me it was the source material and,
also don't see why this is such a big deal - as far as audio shows go.  

This is "wobble bass", a techique that comes out of dubstep, where the volume of a bass tone is modified with the beat. Wikipedia has a good explanation.

There are other songs on this album where James states specifically he was looking to create a claustraphobic effect. Perhaps the same applies here.

Interestingly I've heard this song used by Magico on two different occassions at Axpona, so clearly they think their speakers show well here. 

I use this song for my own sub setup because when its wrong you definitely have the experience of the Helmholtz effect inside a csr with one window cracked open. When its right (for me) you hear and feel the volume differential but it isnt fluttering your eadrums, and you do not lose any of the attack or decay of the concurrent drum line.

I listened to that song with my Harbeth P3ESR's and thought I might lose an eardrum or two. 

Hey doug, you are probably right.  In this home confinement thing I have taken to a bit of excess of Jim Beam.  I would have loved to hear your various and varied rigs, can't even imagine.

jetter, I do not believe that I have posted any comment in 13 years where I berated a member here for a budget system. I have habitually complemented beginners and lower budget system owners in the Virtual Systems area for what I consider wise selection of systems. 

@badger_rich ya i think that might be a small part of it i think lol

Hey Doug, I was thinking it was getting to be time for your routine spanking for us not spending enough money on gear.

The last two posts are part of my point that I made. Most systems, frankly, are not that great. We think our rig and most we have heard are wonderful, but in truth they often lack significantly. Low end lack of resolution is common. When you hear a rig/speakers that can do extreme resolution in LF it is striking. It’s also very obvious to the ear.

Regarding many genres which are ridiculed and said to be not good sounding, again, the majority of audio systems even of audiophiles are woefully inadequate to the task. Anyone with smaller than 10" woofers is basically not on the playing field. It's not only a matter of woofer size, but of amps, cabling, etc. I estimate that 80% plus of systems in the home can't do such music well, or at least what I would call doing it well. Some of these people try such music and because it doesn't sound good/clean they mock the music, all the while having systems that can’t even reproduce it well. Part of the weirdness of audiophilia.

I don’t even care for many of these genres of music, but I will use them occasionally to calibrate/test systems. If the system can do such music well, then typically it will do all music well/better. YMMV

Can one surmise that $53,000 speakers could be at least partly responsible?

There are more songs on that album with interesting sound effects. Actually modern music often gives "HiFi" speakers lots of problems. It's not always "crap recordings" as we tend to say when it doesn't sound so good.

Cool song... there are some definite subsonics mixed into that. Interesting. I call tunes like that “speaker killers”. A woofer workout for sure. The Blade Runner 2049 soundtrack has a lot of that. 

I just tried to turn the gain up on my dual PSA v1800s. I definitely feel the bass on my body more... but I still don't quite get that sensation almost like something is vibrating right next to my ears. Too bad I can't borrow some m2s and stick them into my room, lol.
I heard the S7 in that dealers room but didn't hear that same song. Would been interesting if the effect was there on the s7.

I’d imagine it was all 3.  But like was previously stated, the Magico’s were pressurizing the room, locking on to it.  Where are the swarm owners?  Interesting to see if they are hearing it...

perhaps the first time you have heard a room pressurized?

Also, superbly clean bass is qualitatively much different to the ears than even good bass. 

Finally, when using very powerful bass drivers, the centering of the system has a large effect on how the bass is received at the ears. Any one of these things could be the cause of what you experienced. 

perhaps the first time you have heard a room pressurized?

My guess is that it’s part of the recording, and is probably deliberate.

If the bass was the only instrument recorded with little or no reverb then it would be the only instrument which would tend to sound "proximate", or close to one’s ears. Sort of like a recording of a whisper turned up really loud.  

Alternately the reverb could have a very short time delay, like what your voice would sound like if you were in a box.

Duke

Played it on Spotify. That synthetic bass is sustained and very low frequency. What I hear is the room resonating which makes the bass seem like it is encompassing you. The actual observed imaging effect is surely determined by specific room acoustics and setup.

I just don't know how to describe it. I've heard well integrated deep bass many times on many systems and it sounds amazing. This is simply different. Its someone has 2 mini fans next to your ears or super fast driver that is just 1-2 cm from your outer ear and its vibrating. Its surprising. But if some of you are hearing it then maybe it was just a property of the room rather than super power of the magico m2.

But yes, I suppose he plays a lot with the phase button on the album to create these illusions. Mostly with his voice.

smodtactical

I don't think your other posters have heard a synthesizer before based on the responses. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-tyaZgx3Ao

The bass should be inside your body eating your bones. Try Billie Eilish next time :-)

Just fyi, it normally takes a while for a thread to go totally off the rails. This train wreck was instantaneous. Congratulations. China virus has killed even the internet.

Double check that your speaker cables were connected correctly at both ends. Red to red, black to black on both sides. :)

If they cant hear the difference without checking, why bother?

Double check that your speaker cables were connected correctly at both ends.  Red to red, black to black on both sides. :)

I could literally hear the bass right at my ears as if I was wearing heapdhones

Yes that is what I am hearing as well. 
ON a pair of B&W dm70c electrostatic speakers with 13 inch woofer.

Speakers 10 feet from front wall. Room is a large    
Bass fills the room . 

Tidal Link to Song 

 https://tidal.com/browse/track/5256198

Same thing happens on song To Care(Like You) 

https://tidal.com/browse/track/5256200

@steve59  I posted a review on my site sonic visions.

@kenjit can you elaborate ?

This was in an irregularly shaped room with a big hallway to one side and hardly any treatment.

That could be it

Wait, you came up for air? I’ll go look for an update on the yamaha’s now.