Badly recorded albums needing upgrading

Could be geoffkait. I don't download music anyway, so likely will never find out. 

Mike

skyscraper OP339 posts02-29-2020 1:52pmEthiessen, that's a clever idea to download high resolution files onto Redbook CD-R's if that gets better results than buying the Redbook cd off the shelf. 

>>>>Then you have to read the CD-R with your CD player, which is where the problem is in the first place. Sounds like a non-starter.

Ethiessen, that's a clever idea to download high resolution files onto Redbook CD-R's if that gets better results than buying the Redbook cd off the shelf. I don't do any downloading myself, but other's certainly do, and could benefit from your idea. I've also liked ECM recordings since they first came out. They seemed to have a distinct clean and quiet sound to their recordings. I took one along when demoing speakers a while back.

Tablejockey, when I give Springsteen a second chance that and Nebraska are the CD's I'll try on your and Glupson's recommendations.

Jimf421, thanks for the link. I'd never looked at the Audiophile Style site before. Finding specific album reviews addressing the quality of particular pressings is what I'm looking for. 

Alaric, that makes sense not to buy a digital remaster on vinyl. It would seeming defeat the purpose of vinyl. My vinyl buying days seem to be over at this point anyway in favor of CD's and SACD's.

The_treble_with_tribbles, it's a shame bettrrecords.com are so prohibitively expensive. At least some people can benefit from what they are doing.

Danvignau, sounds like a clever idea for those of you with subs. Glad it worked for you. 

Glupson, the last local record store for new records and CD's, Barnes and Noble, deleted their music department not long ago. There is one small used record store left in Roanoke I've yet to visit, that specializes in vinyl. But their prices listed online seemed quit high for used, when you can get the equivalent CD's new without the snap,crackle and pops larry5729 mentioned above.

And to any jazz lovers out there, the Rudy Van Gelder remastered eleven CD set of all of Wayne Shorter's Blue Note albums is quite good. It is on the Italian Universal Classics and Jazz label and reasonably priced at about $50. I had a set on order through Amazon for about $35, but the store listing it at that price was out of stock. The set runs up to his forming Weather Report and overlaps his tenure with Miles Davis, and maybe follows his time with Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers.Not sure if there is any overlap there. Great sidemen throughout including Coltrane's band-mates from his classic quartet and Davis band-mates like Herbie Hancock and others. I'm OD'ing on those eleven albums right now, wading through the sixth one this moment. All are excellent so far. 

tablejockey, yes Darkness (my long time favourite Springsteen - though the sonically superior Western Skies is another contender) is a great example of a difficult (muddy) recording.

Apparently Springsteen was into endless takes and overdubs, corrections, retries etc. I think he even confessed that when he heard the final cut for Born to Run he was thoroughly disheartened with the sound quality. So it's not always easy to find a good example on vinyl, especially of his early albums.

To his credit Springsteen along with Dylan always did seem interested in how his albums sounded.

The more recent CD reissues of Darkness seem to have now got it as clear as it can be.

"the next time you're in the record store..."

Sadly, but I doubt there is a record store like that anywhere near skyscraper. Or many of us.

I solved this problem by using a second,matching amp and preamp to drive subs. With a simply constructed DTDP switch, I  defeat the sub crossovers to add harmonics to the terrible recordings, while increasing the bass without throwing anything out of phase.  Yes,  I did measure my drivers to time align the subs with the mains.   Try it.  You will like it .

Needless to say I am not here to help anyone with quantity. You decide you are back to seeking quality, if ever you were, you know where to go.

 What might not have been apparent besides the high price though is that the people there at better-records.com not only find the albums, they clean them, and then they listen to them to determine the quality. So yes, while their price is high, the effort they’ve put in to the album, and probably the several (or more) other albums that didn’t meet their standards, warrant it.

Unfortunately, it does get to a level though that only a select few with the financial means can fully enjoy it. Of course that is the way it is with many things. millercarbon is very fortunate to be in that group, obviously also very intelligent, I appreciate his expertise and help when he posts, but based on his level of sophistication, the off-putting comments, for example "if ever you were" could be curtailed a bit.

Albums that were digitally mastered or digitally "remastered" are a waste of money on vinyl. Get a decent Redbook or SACD copy and player and be done with it.

I have found this site pretty useful for finding better versions of specific albums. I have gone with their recommendations and been satisfied.

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/the-best-version-of/

skyscraper-

the next time you're in the record store, pick up a couple of cheap copies of Springsteen's "Darkness on the Edge of Town"https://www.better-records.com/product.aspx?pf_id=sprindarkn_1909_01_

You should hear some of the differences the Hot Stamper guys describes. It's an average recording, but a good pressing is noticed.
"Streets of Fire" or "Candy's Room" is a demo song with a clean copy.Monster dynamics.

Nothing like the sound of snap, crackle and pop.

Glupson, 

https://www.stereophile.com/artdudleylistening/927/index.html

Thanks for the Art Dudley review link.

I love reading these kind of articles penned by the hand of those who were there then.

Hindsight can be a wonderful thing, but it can also introduce terrible distortions.

I've found that hi-resolution downloads eclipse many of the physical media, with a few exceptions: ECM recordings, some of the better classical labels. But even burning the hi-rez files to Redbook cd-r in foobar gives far better sound and more definition than the "plain" Redbook store bought cds. The 2016 SACD Layla was also available as a higher resolution download. I burned it to cd just the other night and was amazed at how good it was - especially the drums - no murkiness at all in the mix. Don't know if any of that fits your modus operandi, but that's how I've dealt with your question.

Talking Heads had DVD-Audio (ouch, I mentioned it) of Remain In Light and Fear Of Music. They were as good as they could be, especially taking into consideration the original sound signature of Fear Of Music. Otherwise, buy a good record and be done.

Didnt they release a box set with dvd audio on one side and cd on the other

Glupson, enjoyed that Art Dudley article on Procul Harum you provided a link to. Very interesting. I need to listen to a Whiter Shade of Pale again right now. I'll get to the rest of your links shortly. Thanks,

Mike 

Thanks,

Mike

Geoffkait, will the DSD versions not play on a CD/SACD player like my Marantz Ruby? The Layla SACD I got yesterday might have been taken from a 2013 DSD remaster, maybe not. There are so many variations of that recording available it’s hard to remember which was which and how they were re-done.

>>>>Any DSD CD or DSD Hybrid SACD should play on any player as far as I know.

I’m flattered. 

Not a problem glupson.

Mike

Tablejockey, man, they want $500 for the copy of Layla you provided a link to at Better Records. I do all right financially, but not to that degree. The Japanese SHM SACD that arrived yesterday will have to do. "Little Wing" is really good as you say, having listened to it twice yesterday. The more sparsely arranged final cut on the album "Thorn Tree in the Garden" sounded especially well recorded on the SACD, compared to the rest of the album anyway. And you're fortunate to have the copies of Pretzel Logic and Let It Bleed you do. 

Glupson, since you mention it, I’ll have to go through all my old Stones records, bought on vinyl years ago, to see if any of them are as poorly recorded as Let It Bleed, and might need to be upgraded. I’ve all of their albums from years back, plus a few earlier oddball items like the Bill Wyman solo outing, the Chicago Blues session bootleg and Jammin’ with Edward. I always loved the Stones. I’ve all the Procul Harum albums too I think, on the original vinyl USA pressings and will similarly need to review those copies. "Shine on Brightly" was a great tune.

I’ll try out Springsteen’s Nebraska that you suggest, even though I’ve only ever had one of his recordings. I always felt his music was a bit florid and overblown, kind of the same way U2 strikes me. Still enjoyable though. Southside Johnny and the Asbury Jukes, his Asbury Park contemporaries were a little more to my liking, being less grandiose. I do like all the others you mentioned too, and have most of all their recordings on the original vinyl too, needing to be re-listened to. None of the later Dylan material though. Thanks for all the links. I’ll try and get to them all today.

Geoffkait, will the DSD versions not play on a CD/SACD player like my Marantz Ruby? The Layla SACD I got yesterday might have been taken from a 2013 DSD remaster, maybe not. There are so many variations of that recording available it’s hard to remember which was which and how they were re-done.

Mike

Just to backtrack (i.e., interrupt) for a sec,

Imitation. The highest form of flattery.

Sony Walkman 2019

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidphelan/2019/09/07/sony-40th-anniversary-walkmans-surprise-feature-...

What company? Any other detail? I have never noticed anything about it and I have been on alert.

Just to backtrack (i.e., interrupt) for a sec, there is a current modern Walkman CD player for around 4 Grand that should play SACDs, but I’m not 100%.

Sorry, but anyone mind if we take a break from the usual waste of time banter and BSD measuring and return for a minute to the OP and the subject at hand? No? Because you two will sadly, inevitably return. Just give the adults a moment here, if you please.Thanks!

Millercarbon, I’ll take a look at the Better-Records.com site if only to get tempted. I’d love to have my cake and eat it too, but with so many recordings I desire to acquire I don’t want to get into the "insanely expensive category". I’d rather be able to significantly increase my record and CD collection to encompass many more musical styles and genres. But a few treats now and then from Better-Records would not be out of the question.

Okay, but you got me confused here. Surely you can see it? Started a post, ostensibly the point of which is all about sound quality. Finally someone comes along tells you the one place on Earth you can be assured of finding sound quality and you say well, maybe, but I'm all about sound quantity.

See what I mean? Sad fact of life, you can have one, or you can have the other. The vast majority of what is out there is absolute dreck. If quantity is what you want get a streamer and tell yourself you're not just blasting noise all day. Quantity is easy. Any of the bantering boobs above can do quantity. Look around, my bet is there's quantity coming out of speakers all around you this very second. You can't go shopping or stand in an elevator without quantity. Heck they even have a name for it, elevator music. You know where quantity leads? Quantity leads to a great guitarist like Carlos Santana creating unlistenable dreck like Africa and Supernatural. 

Needless to say I am not here to help anyone with quantity. You decide you are back to seeking quality, if ever you were, you know where to go.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled pointless misleading banter.

Actually I always get the DSD CDs, not the SACDs. Did I make a boo boo? The DSD sound great. Am I going deaf? Is the CD layer on hybrid DSD SACDs also DSD?

If you are looking for the early Rolling Stones (up to Let it Bleed), buy those 2002 SACDs and that is it. As geoffkait mentioned, they are relatively cheap (eBay, etc.) but the prices have actually gone up recently. Just make sure you get SACDs and not DSD remasters on CD. Digipak (cardboard) is what you are looking for, not the plastic jewel case. Both will say DSD on the back.

Talking Heads had DVD-Audio (ouch, I mentioned it) of Remain In Light and Fear Of Music. They were as good as they could be, especially taking into consideration the original sound signature of Fear Of Music. Otherwise, buy a good record and be done.

As plaw mentioned, Roxy Music’s Avalon SACD is good, and I would say that all Bob Dylan SACDs from 2003 are a great bet.

If you do listen to Bruce Springsteen, Nebraska from 2014/2015 is strangely good. Really good.

And last, if you are a Procol Harum fan, or even if you are not, their first album on Classic Records re-release from, I believe, 2003 is what you want to buy today. You want the copy with a 7" single of A Whiter Shade Of Pale stereo included. It should have three records in the package. Album, 12" A Whiter Shade Of Pale mono (33 and 45 rpm), and this 7" single. It will not be the cheapest record you have ever bought, but you will like it. The only problem is that you may start considering buying a mono cartridge.



https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.Xrolling+st...


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bob-Dylan-Limited-Edition-Hybrid-SACD-Set-Box-CD-15-Discs-2003-Sony-6059/33...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15-CD-Box-Set-BOB-DYLAN-Limited-Edition-Hybrid-SACD-Set/303435176021?hash=i...

https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/681547?sort=price%2Cdesc&ev=rb

https://www.discogs.com/Bruce-Springsteen-Nebraska/release/6914245

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/classic-records-procol-harum

skyscraper-
Revisiting Derek and the Dominoes-Layla

If you're serious about record play, cut to the chasehttps://www.better-records.com/product.aspx?pf_id=dereklayla_2002_1
If my table alone, were a $50K+, I wouldn't think twice buying my favorites from here.

The owner of this establishment  used to send his scouts to scoop up potential "stampers" from one of my neighborhood stores.

I have the $500 Pretzel Logic, (found after several $3-5 buys)$300, $600 Stones LIB etc.

I played my copy of Layla...clean, but yeah,some of  what Tom Port describes of a typical copy. Some of his descriptions are IMO, a little much, but he does a good job of "selling the copy"

I forgot how wonderful the entire album is.The cover of Little Wing is cool.

Jond, we’ve similar tastes in jazz. I’ve all the Miles Davis albums you listed except the Collectors Items. The ones I have on CD aren’t K2 issues. They’re only identified as RVG remasters on Prestige. The Monk Plays Duke Ellington is similarly identified not as a K2, only as a Orrin Keepnew’s Collection remaster on Riverside. I recently got Sonny Rollins "Way Out West" as part of a set of his complete Blue Note, Riverside, and Contempory recordings. The Bill Evans 12 album set I recently acquired only overlaps your Everybody Digs Bill Evans recording.

All the above sound really good. I’d be interested in acquiring some of the rest of your list of K2 reissues to make comparisons. I’ll try pulling those up online to get pricing. Same with the MPS Oscar Peterson of whom I’ve unfortunately no recordings with him as bandleader. Thanks.

Millercarbon, I’ll take a look at the Better-Records.com site if only to get tempted. I’d love to have my cake and eat it too, but with so many recordings I desire to acquire I don’t want to get into the "insanely expensive category". I’d rather be able to significantly increase my record and CD collection to encompass many more musical styles and genres. But a few treats now and then from Better-Records would not be out of the question.

Maybe my thought on on the matter will change after a while, but I’ve been looking forward to being in a position to fill out my record collection and (book) library for many years. Now that that day is finally arriving I don’t want to put it off by spending only on the finest recordings, even though they’d be great to have. I don’t buy first editions of books either for similar reasons, and similarly set a budget for excellent, but certainly not the finest available, stereo equipment.

I also tried getting used records locally and there is still one remaining store locally selling them, but it was a crap shoot finding decent condition ones. Are there any other recording engineers other than Doug Sax whose records you like and would recommend, that would help someone to identify well recorded music. I’ve got Layla’s recording engineer, Tom Dowd, permanently blacklisted.

By the way my new Japanese SHM SA-CD 2013 Layla remaster came in the mail today and is playing at this moment. It’s not great, but manages to be listenable as advertised. The bass is boomy and Clapton sounds like he’s singing in an echo chamber next door, but it’s a significant improvement. Turning up the volume while decreasing the bass is helping a bit. It’s such a lovely album though. Kind of like viewing DaVinci’s Last Supper, where even though over half of the original paint is missing you can still appreciate you’re looking at a masterpiece. Take it easy,

Mike

I only want to spend that kind or resources on absolute favorite records. I am filling in the rock and roll and R&B portion of my record and CD collection of artists ranging from the Beatles up through the Sex Pistols. Are there any other well known albums like "Let It Bleed" or "Layla" I should avoid, or might already have, that will need to be purchased or bought again in upgraded formats.
... there is a lot to sort out and understand about why any recordings sounds the way it does in any given setting, or because of what went into it while recorded or remastered. It's been interesting to learn about that here and other places from those more intimately involved or knowledgeable about the recording process, and those who know the ins and outs of various pressings and mediums. 

Okay so here's the deal. There's some really bad offenders in the recording quality area like the Rolling Stones, but even they managed to get a few things right here and there, or so at least I am told. Springsteen is another major offender in the Hall of Fame for Great Music Recorded Badly. 

But mostly this is one to take on a case by case basis. A better approach if you really care about recording quality is to start paying attention to the recording and mastering engineers. If you see Doug Sax The Mastering Lab you know its gonna sound good no matter if its Styx Equinox or Linda Ronstadt and Nelson Riddle.

Its a shame you seem only interested in CD because the only foolproof means I know of obtaining ultra high sound quality is to buy from Better-Records.com which although insanely expensive are also insanely good sound quality. Which has so much good solid info on recordings and sound quality its worth a visit even if you only buy CD.

Cd318, it is a shame vinyl records have declined in quality and almost went the way of the dodo. But finding reasonably good recordings in any medium is still something most of us can shoot for without heading towards bankruptcy if out current systems haven't already put us there. 

Itsjustme, there is a lot to sort out and understand about why any recordings sounds the way it does in any given setting, or because of what went into it while recorded or remastered. It's been interesting to learn about that here and other places from those more intimately involved or knowledgeable about the recording process, and those who know the ins and outs of various pressings and mediums.

Mike 

For MPS they have some great Oscar Peterson recordings:
Hello Herbie
Reunion Blues
Walking the Line

skyscraper,Some of my favorite K2 jazz re-issues are:
Miles Davis Quintet:
Bag’s Groove
Cookin
’Walkin
’Relaxin’
Workin’
Steamin’
Collectors Items

Bill Evans
:At Shelly’s Manne-Hole
California Here I Come
Everybody Dig’s Bill Evans
New Jazz Conceptions
Explorations

Sonny Rollins Way Out West

Thelonious Monk:
Monk’s Music
Thelonious Alone in San Fran
Plays Duke Ellington
Thelonious Monk Trio

I could go on there are so many but that’s a good start I think.

Audioguy. I'll add MA recordings and Acoustic Sounds to a growing  list of sources for well recorded music.Maybe I'll even give Mobile Fidelity a second chance. I still get aggravated by their original "high (actually low) quality" Dark Side of the Moon pressing , which I still have from decades ago. I wasn't aware that the quality of vinyl records fell off so precipitously in the late seventies and eighties into the nineties. Thanks for that info.

Mitchagain, I'll have to dig out my old Blind Faith album today and see if its another recording disaster. Haven't played that in eons. Must be a first pressing since it was purchased right after it was released. Update: Playing it right now. It's definitely not an audiophile quality recording, everything sounds a bit muffled especially Stevie ?Winwoods vocals, but at least it's not in the unplayable, unlistenable Layla league.

The Richard Barone material you quoted was quite interesting too. The anecdote about Lou Reed brought to mind another current thread about about imaging where one of his recordings, "Street Hassle" maybe,  was recommended as a good example of well done imaging. I happened to have the recording mentioned   and was able to listen to how well it was done. 

The_treble_with_tribles, and tomcy6, I'll have to become more familiar with that site, and check out albums before making a disappointing purchase of ones that fall into lower dynamic range categories of 5,6 and 7. I need to start paying more attention to dynamic range as a significant part of the sound quality picture. Carver had designed some technology to address this issue on my old Phase Linear 4000 preamp. It was called a "peak unlimiter". I always left it in the "on" position. I wonder if that technology was any good or if it has simply disappeared for no reason.

Interesting too about dynamic range figures not being absolutely comparable between LP's and CD's. I'm definitely learning some new things here. Thanks

Plaw,  thanks for the recommends on the SACDs. I havn't much in the way of later Dylan and post Layla Clapton, although it would be interesting to compare my LP copy of Avalon with the SACD version.

Oregonpapa, you're absolutely spot on about the mono recordings. The Masterworks Ellington Masterpieces CD mentioned earlier is  mono and recorded superbly. I was afraid I'd bought a dud when I saw it was a mono recording, before playing it that is.

Glad to hear you recommend all those jazz labels you listed. I've many older jazz LP's on many of them and feel more comfortable getting more of the same knowing  they maintain high recording standards. That's good news for sure.

William 1957, I've had good luck with some of the multi-album sets so far, but I've researched each one beforehand. there a numerous ones to avoid thoufgh as you point out. That's one reason I started this thread, to winnow out the culprits on these sets. You mention some labels are not transparent. Would you mind saying which ones you are disappointed with in this regard to save me the work of having to find this info out the hard way.  

Thank you for the label recommendations. I've added them to my list, which is coming along quite nicely. Thank you for your well thought out and interesting post. I've read it twice now. You're right, there are a lot of variables to work out, but that seems to be the name of the game that keeps Audiogon going. It's great fun though when you do find a recording
that moves you, is well recorded, and you the gear to play it to it's best advantage. It doesn't have to be the case to enjoy good music , but it's hard to beat when it all falls into place. Appreciate your thoughtful response.

Crustycoots, I've all the records you mentioned, except the last and will take a listen to each as I revisit my collection on my new equipment. I'll especially check out the Hendrix Rainbow Bridge as we both have the 1971 pressing. Appreciate the recommendation on MA recordings that Audioguy likes too. 

Tuberist, I agree with you the music comes first, then the quality of the recording with the exception of real dogs like Layla which make the music unlistenable on good equipment. No reason not to get the best recordings you can reasonably afford, if it doesn't impinge overmuch on your overall number of purchases. I've so many recordings I'd like to acquire before I amble off into the great beyond, so I'm trying to find a reasonable balance.

In a lot of cases I'm finding the poorly made recordings cost the exact same as far better ones, especially in jazz reissues. So far the balance is the greatest albums have to be at least listenable In a good system, and the rest have to be both affordable and not second rate reissues or remasters. That sounds reasonable, doesn't it? Another thing to consider is, if you've spent a small fortune on equipment, it's kind of a waste to not have source material that brings out the best in your investment. 

Thanks again for all your thoughtful comments. And an aside to Jafant: If you're turning into a thrasher or metal-head, it's not too late. There's still hope.  

Mike 

Wow.
Ozzy wrote:

The OP is one of those audiophiles that listen to the sound of their system rather than the music.
Sure, we wish all recordings were top notch and also would like there to be no stinkers in our collections.

The first seems rather needlessly judgemental, and the 2nd pretty much sums up why.  I mean, this place exists because we do strive for better sounding music, right?  And -- like HD lenses revealing flaws, this is simply an unfortunate fact -- a highly resolving system is more likely to accentuate some of the problems. In fact compressed eq'd music is often reverse engineered to sound good on crummy systems. Others are just over produced, alas.
The other unfortunate fact is that the most popular music is often the worst recorded - shrill, compressed, 32 tracks mixed down in pro-tools, etc.
The two largest contributors to sound are also largely out of our control - 1-the recording/mixing and 2-our rooms.  Yes, the latter can be addressed but its often either impractical or financially unrealistic. or maybe unacceptable to other members of the household.  So the room soften remains a "gravity issue".
I think the OP raises great questions and issues:

1. let's listen to good music, not just good sounding music. Too often its not the case.
2. If better alternatives exist, let's learn about them.  In the digital domain pressings matter little, so its really about re-masterings. And good for us, lots of artists realize this and have gone back, many times with excellent results.

Do some "hgih end" do more than reveal what's on the record, and in fact make them worse?  No doubt: anything with a rising top end will contribute to shrill sound, and there are MANY such cartridges.  Why? because on some recordings they "enhance" (ahem) the sound.  Its fascinating to hear about how un-flat pro microphones are -- with artists selecting a mic for "presence" or "sizzle" or "snap".  Which, if the arist already has hearing loss, is one of the many sources of bad recordings to begin with :-) or is it :-(  ?
G

Unfortunately finding good issue pressings (vinyl or CD) is not a straightforward business - like much else in audio.

As others have said I'd agree that vinyl pressings generally went downhill after the mid 80s and also current vinyl issues often exhibit way too many clicks and pops.

Even worse, whilst dynamic range is always desirable, it's not everything. Care in sympathetic mastering and cutting is also required.

As the OP wisely said, don't get nutty about it or go crazy with it. Sometimes it's enough to just avoid the worst pressings.

The perfect ones simply may not exist.

I accept that recording quality varies by the release. If the music is wonderful and compelling, poor sound reproduction won't keep me from listening. I really get a kick out of how well some recordings made in the 50's and even 40's sound great. I've accepted that some artists i.e. U2 and Springsteen don't present as good recordings but the music is just terrific to me. To each their own. If someone wants to spend substantial money on a system and only utilize it for "audiophile" recordings then so be it.

Layla AOLS...never thought it was so bad relative to its time, but you want a great band that was really ill-treated by their label, try Jefferson Airplane.  The first release that sounded good was the "Worst of" compilation, where the remasters had some life to them.  Sleeper classic with excellent big open sound...Traffic's "Low Spark", especially the title track.  Let's give kudos to WB/Reprise, whose SQ for Joni, The Dead, Little Feat, Ry Cooder, Zappa, Van Morrison, Arlo Guthrie, and Randy Newman were excellent.  Listen to Jimi Hendrix' posthumous release, "Rainbow Bridge" and check out the low end and dynamics on "Pali Gap" and " Hey Baby".  My original 1971 pressing still sounds outstanding on highly resolving modern speakers!
It all started to go to h**l with the New Wave.  T-Heads and Blondie were good, but Elvis Costello???  Compressed to death.  As for Punk, Grunge, Thrash...whaddaya expect?  I am a crusty old coot after all!

By the way...MA recordings are fantastic.  My fave is "The Old Country"
by Howard Levy, Miroslav Tadic & Marl Nauseef.  The track "Kucano Oro" is a breathtaking performance and a reference recording.

I have found many of the comments in this thread align with my findings but disagree with some.
Where to start with my ramblings?
Let’s take “Layla and other ...” - I have several copies and the while the recording is undoubtedly murky, I rather like it, and imo a good copy on a good system will allow you to thoroughly enjoy the music making. But what constitutes a good copy? And this is where it comes to some key points; what is your individual preference? And what level of acceptance do you have for particular traits? and this goes for your choice of system as well.

Personally I am happy to listen to recordings that could be better sonically but still allow me to listen to the music. But I am not happy to waste my life listening to any recordings, however good, that don’t grab me emotionally. Now the problem is finding out what elements of a recording are critical for your enjoyment ( why can I listen to Aurora Backseat but not Beak Positive or the Lp but not Cd of Electrif Lycanthrope?). And then finding what record companies suit your taste. I can listen to some MP3’s through my system and enjoy them, cheap Cd’s not, hi-Rez files sometimes, recordings pre 1956 rarely, some vinyl gets one minute of play and goes to the resell box, while other vinyl is stunning. I also can’t listen to good music if the recorded medium has removed some undefined critical element - and this maybe links back to some people’s experience of “Layla..”

While the best reissues use the original tapes in mastering, there are some pretty good results in vinyl from digital sources.

Then some records require cleaning to make them enjoyable - the Tim Buckley live in Chicago ‘68 vinyl set being a recent example where a Kirmuss clean turned listening from, ok but boring and maybe bin, to captivating and must keep.

My rule of thumb for vinyl is that first pressings can often be best, having an “air” that alludes reissues. However some old vinyl can be crappy  quality. Sealed old albums can be a minefield - industrial vandalism - third pressings in an original sleeve etc ..

Many modern reissues are better in definition and have lower distortion and are stunning. But there are few absolutes, as some modern reissues I have had have sucked the life out of the recording.

How to choose?

Click around. Do some research on the source used and where the records are cut and pressed. Some companies are transparent and some aren’t. So tip one is avoid record companies that aren’t.
Looking at new vinyl - there are many options out three and normally Kevin Gray and Ryan Smith cuts do it for me, then you have Bernie Grundman and Chris Bellman (don’t quite gel with me) and then mo-fi (not a great fan) and then you have various teams in London and and and. at the other end for I tend to avoid Mastered by Capitol (good but not great IMO) and have given Doxy and Waxtime a miss after experience.

But to start with choose the music.

Labels?
Analogue Productions
Blue Note Tone Poem
Vinyl Me, Please
Speakers Corner
Neil Young Archive Vinyl Releases
Testament (really liked some of there recent releases)
Some from UME (Sound of Vinyl)
and some of the recent Craft releases have been top notch.

As for CD’s who knows? well we have known for years that one cd isn’t the same as another even when they have the same title but different issue. I have found SHMCD’s a step up. And avoid cheap complete album sets as in my experience they are dire.

Jeeps there are quite a few variables to work your way around - sometimes I wish it didn’t bother me - but it does

plaw

I concur- those are (3) superb -sounding SACD titles.

Happy Listening!

Skyscraper ...

I've been collecting jazz records since high school, and that was many moons ago. I can recommend some labels that recorded jazz very well and very few will disappoint.

Look for anything from the middle 50s to the middle 60 on the following labels:

1.  Contemporary.
2.  Pacific Jazz.
3.  Bethlehem.
4.  Savoy.
5.  Dot.
6.  Columbia.
7.  Roulette.

The early Blue Notes are well recorded, however, a lot of them were dual mono. You may want to look for the mono versions, but they are collectibles and can be expensive. 

Don't pass up jazz records on these labels because they are mono recordings. So many of them are so good that they will have you wondering "who needs stereo."

Frank

I agree with comments about Layla - I sold it - just a rank recording.

Here are my surprises on SACD:

Clapton - Slowhand
Roxy Music - Avalon
Dylan - Slow Train Coming

All of them I never expected to be so incredibly superb.

@jafant dark angel - darkness descends
its amazing!
i still have the LP new and sealed in my collection.

Gene Hoglan is the time keeper!

I think it’s one of the greatest thrash albums of all time.
it gets played at least once a week.

ALSO if you haven’t heard it.....give Onslaught -The force a listen. And their newer stuff is equally wicked good! They have been out since the mid 80’s. Great band.

enjoy!