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Glupson, enjoyed that Art Dudley article on Procul Harum you provided a link to. Very interesting. I need to listen to a Whiter Shade of Pale again right now. I'll get to the rest of your links shortly. Thanks,
Mike |
Tablejockey, man, they want $500 for the copy of Layla you provided a link to at Better Records. I do all right financially, but not to that degree. The Japanese SHM SACD that arrived yesterday will have to do. "Little Wing" is really good as you say, having listened to it twice yesterday. The more sparsely arranged final cut on the album "Thorn Tree in the Garden" sounded especially well recorded on the SACD, compared to the rest of the album anyway. And you're fortunate to have the copies of Pretzel Logic and Let It Bleed you do.
Glupson, since you mention it, I’ll have to go through all my old Stones records, bought on vinyl years ago, to see if any of them are as poorly recorded as Let It Bleed, and might need to be upgraded. I’ve all of their albums from years back, plus a few earlier oddball items like the Bill Wyman solo outing, the Chicago Blues session bootleg and Jammin’ with Edward. I always loved the Stones. I’ve all the Procul Harum albums too I think, on the original vinyl USA pressings and will similarly need to review those copies. "Shine on Brightly" was a great tune.
I’ll try out Springsteen’s Nebraska that you suggest, even though I’ve only ever had one of his recordings. I always felt his music was a bit florid and overblown, kind of the same way U2 strikes me. Still enjoyable though. Southside Johnny and the Asbury Jukes, his Asbury Park contemporaries were a little more to my liking, being less grandiose. I do like all the others you mentioned too, and have most of all their recordings on the original vinyl too, needing to be re-listened to. None of the later Dylan material though. Thanks for all the links. I’ll try and get to them all today.
Geoffkait, will the DSD versions not play on a CD/SACD player like my Marantz Ruby? The Layla SACD I got yesterday might have been taken from a 2013 DSD remaster, maybe not. There are so many variations of that recording available it’s hard to remember which was which and how they were re-done.
Mike
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Not a problem glupson.
Mike |
Ethiessen, that's a clever idea to download high resolution files onto Redbook CD-R's if that gets better results than buying the Redbook cd off the shelf. I don't do any downloading myself, but other's certainly do, and could benefit from your idea. I've also liked ECM recordings since they first came out. They seemed to have a distinct clean and quiet sound to their recordings. I took one along when demoing speakers a while back.
Tablejockey, when I give Springsteen a second chance that and Nebraska are the CD's I'll try on your and Glupson's recommendations.
Jimf421, thanks for the link. I'd never looked at the Audiophile Style site before. Finding specific album reviews addressing the quality of particular pressings is what I'm looking for.
Alaric, that makes sense not to buy a digital remaster on vinyl. It would seeming defeat the purpose of vinyl. My vinyl buying days seem to be over at this point anyway in favor of CD's and SACD's.
The_treble_with_tribbles, it's a shame bettrrecords.com are so prohibitively expensive. At least some people can benefit from what they are doing.
Danvignau, sounds like a clever idea for those of you with subs. Glad it worked for you.
Glupson, the last local record store for new records and CD's, Barnes and Noble, deleted their music department not long ago. There is one small used record store left in Roanoke I've yet to visit, that specializes in vinyl. But their prices listed online seemed quit high for used, when you can get the equivalent CD's new without the snap,crackle and pops larry5729 mentioned above.
And to any jazz lovers out there, the
Rudy Van Gelder remastered
eleven CD set of all of Wayne Shorter's Blue Note albums is quite good. It is on the Italian Universal Classics and Jazz label and reasonably priced at about $50. I had a set on order through Amazon for about $35, but the store listing it at that price was out of stock. The set runs up to his forming Weather Report and overlaps his tenure with Miles Davis, and maybe follows his time with Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers.Not sure if there is any overlap there. Great sidemen throughout including Coltrane's band-mates from his classic quartet and Davis band-mates like Herbie Hancock and others. I'm OD'ing on those eleven albums right now, wading through the sixth one this moment. All are excellent so far.
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Could be geoffkait. I don't download music anyway, so likely will never find out.
Mike |
Tomcy6, actually that is very interesting and I’ll do just that. I enjoy reading about things like that by people who know what they’re talking about. Over the past year or two I’ve stumbled across some sites and Youtube videos where people like Michael Fremer and others have talked about different pressings, reissues and the like. I filed away some of that information, and now see what they were talking about and can put some of that information to use.
I went out and bought three of Fremer’s recommendations on the hundred best recorded album reissues recently, "Duke Ellington Masterpieces", the "Columbia Sound of Jazz" reissue and some Art Blakey CD’s. All of them were well worth every penny. I don’t like to get nutty about it, and bought a cheaper boxed set of Art Blakey than the one recommended, but the recordings were all terrific. So it’s really fun and useful to read up on things like that from those in the know, even if you don’t go crazy with it. Appreciate your feedback,
Mike |
Tomcy6, thanks for the heads up on the Steve Hoffman Forums being a good source for discussions of different album releases. When doing a search on "Layla" that was one of a numberof sites that popped up. Next time around I’ll follow your advice and go there directly and search on their site. Thanks.
Slaw, I’ll look for your notes on that thread. Thanks for the invite.
Geoffkait, that Dynamic Range Database looks like a good source of information. I’ll have to go back and figure out how he’s coded that information for each album. It wasn’t obvious at first glance but didn’t look complicated.. He’s probably got that information on another page on his site somewhere. Thanks for the referral. I’ll be sure to check it out more thoroughly.
Ozzy, onhwy61, and noromance, I must have given you the wrong impression. I’ve maybe 1,500 recordings, most of which are fine so far. I have come across the two unacceptably poor recordings mentioned above, and a Joni Mitchell German CD remastering that was mediocre.
There are many more thousands of CD’s and records I would like to get in various genres. If I was a millionaire I’d spring for all audiophile releases, but that’s not the case. I have no intention of buying any audiophile recordings, except when absolutely necessary to make an indispensable album listenable. Audiophile recordings are for the most part quite expensive and inhibit purchasing in the quantities and prices preferred. I won’t even buy new vinyl as it’s exorbitantly priced.
What I would like to do is avoid getting any more unacceptably poor recordings, and to upgrade any other indispensable recordings yet to be uncovered in my current collection. And only those that are "must haves" as bad as the original "Layla" and "Let It Bleed" pressings in my possession. I need to find better ways to winnow out poor recordings before making purchases and finding out the hard way. So, if you have any suggestions along those lines or could mention albums I should avoid that would be appreciated.
CD318, thanks for the suggestion on the Sex Pistols. I’ll give the old "Never Mind the Bollocks" a spin today to check it out. And I’ll listen to my old Kinks and Hollies vinyl record albums too since you mentioned them. My sister kept our old Hemasn Hermits album when I left for college in 1970. Since you asked, I think I like remasters that are true to the originals, but more revealing and with less background noise or tape hiss when possible.
Jond, I’m familiar with the RVG remasters and we both like them. I’ll look up the K2 and MPS reissues. I’m unfamiliar with them, and will try some out. Thank you much for that recommendation. Would you mind naming one or two of those K2’s and MPS’ reissues you like to try out. Thanks.
Tablejockey, it could be my original London pressing of "Let It Bleed " was simply worn out. I bought it when it came out, and played it every day on my folks suitcase style "stereo" then, and lots after that over the years as my favorite record.
I got Layla too when it came out, but hadn’t played that nearly as much for it to be similarly worn out. I put it on the other night after watching Ron Wood interview Patti Boyd (Harrison), on TV. It sounded so bad I honestly I was scared I’d broken the stylus on the Ortofon 2M Black cartridge. Now that is bad. The band and the producer Tom Dowd, must have all been loaded when that all-time classic was recorded.
Thank you for the Ella Fitzgerald recommends and the Art Blakey Moanin’ one too. I just got a five CD Blue Note reissue set of his a few weeks back, but still do’t have the classic Moanin" album. I’ll look for a mono copy as you recommend.. I’ll check out the Julie London. you mention on Youtube if possible. I’ve heard of her but am unfamiliar with her work. Thanks for your recommendations.
If anyone else has any advice on which recordings to avoid or those that are preferable in the categories mentioned above I’m all ears. Thank you for all your replies.
Mike |
Pgaulked, it sounds like you are on the right track and some research is required prior to making any album or CD purchases anymore. Years ago you simply bought what was in the racks at the record store. With Layla alone there are an incredible number of reissues to wade through. I’d rather not have to deal with that, but there it is and it can’t be ignored. Maybe geoffkait’s recommended DSD reissue of "Let It Bleed" would have provided a better Jagger vocal track on Gimme Shelter.
Funny you mentioned getting some Bach. I don’t have a ton of Classical recordings, maybe a dozen or so, but am developing an interest. I’ve
been similarly thinking recently that Bach may a good place to start. I remember enjoying some of his works from a course taken in college back in the seventies. Let us know how the QPR reissues turn out and if they’re good as you anticipated I’ll give one a try too.
I’m off the used vinyl too. It’s too expensive, judging from a used record show recently attended, and too often used records look in good condition, but are not. I’ve thought about building an ultrasonic record cleaner to see if that’s the issue, but right now am going with CD’s and trying some pricier SACDs for occasional splurges. Thanks for your interesting reply.
Mike |
Audioguy. I'll add MA recordings and Acoustic Sounds to a growing list of sources for well recorded music.Maybe I'll even give Mobile Fidelity a second chance. I still get aggravated by their original "high (actually low) quality" Dark Side of the Moon pressing , which I still have from decades ago. I wasn't aware that the quality of vinyl records fell off so precipitously in the late seventies and eighties into the nineties. Thanks for that info.
Mitchagain, I'll have to dig out my old Blind Faith album today and see if its another recording disaster. Haven't played that in eons. Must be a first pressing since it was purchased right after it was released. Update: Playing it right now. It's definitely not an audiophile quality recording, everything sounds a bit muffled especially Stevie ?Winwoods vocals, but at least it's not in the unplayable, unlistenable Layla league.
The Richard Barone material you quoted was quite interesting too. The anecdote about Lou Reed brought to mind another current thread about about imaging where one of his recordings, "Street Hassle" maybe, was recommended as a good example of well done imaging. I happened to have the recording mentioned and was able to listen to how well it was done.
The_treble_with_tribles, and tomcy6, I'll have to become more familiar with that site, and check out albums before making a disappointing purchase of ones that fall into lower dynamic range categories of 5,6 and 7. I need to start paying more attention to dynamic range as a significant part of the sound quality picture. Carver had designed some technology to address this issue on my old Phase Linear 4000 preamp. It was called a "peak unlimiter". I always left it in the "on" position. I wonder if that technology was any good or if it has simply disappeared for no reason.
Interesting too about dynamic range figures not being absolutely comparable between LP's and CD's. I'm definitely learning some new things here. Thanks
Plaw, thanks for the recommends on the SACDs. I havn't much in the way of later Dylan and post Layla Clapton, although it would be interesting to compare my LP copy of Avalon with the SACD version.
Oregonpapa, you're absolutely spot on about the mono recordings. The Masterworks Ellington Masterpieces CD mentioned earlier is mono and recorded superbly. I was afraid I'd bought a dud when I saw it was a mono recording, before playing it that is.
Glad to hear you recommend all those jazz labels you listed. I've many older jazz LP's on many of them and feel more comfortable getting more of the same knowing they maintain high recording standards. That's good news for sure.
William 1957, I've had good luck with some of the multi-album sets so far, but I've researched each one beforehand. there a numerous ones to avoid thoufgh as you point out. That's one reason I started this thread, to winnow out the culprits on these sets. You mention some labels are not transparent. Would you mind saying which ones you are disappointed with in this regard to save me the work of having to find this info out the hard way.
Thank you for the label recommendations. I've added them to my list, which is coming along quite nicely. Thank you for your well thought out and interesting post. I've read it twice now. You're right, there are a lot of variables to work out, but that seems to be the name of the game that keeps Audiogon going. It's great fun though when you do find a recording
that moves you, is well recorded, and you the gear to play it to it's best advantage. It doesn't have to be the case to enjoy good music , but it's hard to beat when it all falls into place. Appreciate your thoughtful response.
Crustycoots, I've all the records you mentioned, except the last and will take a listen to each as I revisit my collection on my new equipment. I'll especially check out the Hendrix Rainbow Bridge as we both have the 1971 pressing. Appreciate the recommendation on MA recordings that Audioguy likes too.
Tuberist, I agree with you the music comes first, then the quality of the recording with the exception of real dogs like Layla which make the music unlistenable on good equipment. No reason not to get the best recordings you can reasonably afford, if it doesn't impinge overmuch on your overall number of purchases. I've so many recordings I'd like to acquire before I amble off into the great beyond, so I'm trying to find a reasonable balance.
In a lot of cases I'm finding the poorly made recordings cost the exact same as far better ones, especially in jazz reissues. So far the balance is the greatest albums have to be at least listenable In a good system, and the rest have to be both affordable and not second rate reissues or remasters. That sounds reasonable, doesn't it? Another thing to consider is, if you've spent a small fortune on equipment, it's kind of a waste to not have source material that brings out the best in your investment.
Thanks again for all your thoughtful comments. And an aside to Jafant: If you're turning into a thrasher or metal-head, it's not too late. There's still hope.
Mike
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Cd318, it is a shame vinyl records have declined in quality and almost went the way of the dodo. But finding reasonably good recordings in any medium is still something most of us can shoot for without heading towards bankruptcy if out current systems haven't already put us there.
Itsjustme, there is a lot to sort out and understand about why any recordings sounds the way it does in any given setting, or because of what went into it while recorded or remastered. It's been interesting to learn about that here and other places from those more intimately involved or knowledgeable about the recording process, and those who know the ins and outs of various pressings and mediums.
Mike |
Jond, we’ve similar tastes in jazz. I’ve all the Miles Davis albums you listed except the Collectors Items. The ones I have on CD aren’t K2 issues. They’re only identified as RVG remasters on Prestige. The Monk Plays Duke Ellington is similarly identified not as a K2, only as a Orrin Keepnew’s Collection remaster on Riverside. I recently got Sonny Rollins "Way Out West" as part of a set of his complete Blue Note, Riverside, and Contempory recordings. The Bill Evans 12 album set I recently acquired only overlaps your Everybody Digs Bill Evans recording.
All the above sound really good. I’d be interested in acquiring some of the rest of your list of K2 reissues to make comparisons. I’ll try pulling those up online to get pricing. Same with the MPS Oscar Peterson of whom I’ve unfortunately no recordings with him as bandleader. Thanks.
Millercarbon, I’ll take a look at the Better-Records.com site if only to get tempted. I’d love to have my cake and eat it too, but with so many recordings I desire to acquire I don’t want to get into the "insanely expensive category". I’d rather be able to significantly increase my record and CD collection to encompass many more musical styles and genres. But a few treats now and then from Better-Records would not be out of the question.
Maybe my thought on on the matter will change after a while, but I’ve been looking forward to being in a position to fill out my record collection and (book) library for many years. Now that that day is finally arriving I don’t want to put it off by spending only on the finest recordings, even though they’d be great to have. I don’t buy first editions of books either for similar reasons, and similarly set a budget for excellent, but certainly not the finest available, stereo equipment.
I also tried getting used records locally and there is still one remaining store locally selling them, but it was a crap shoot finding decent condition ones. Are there any other recording engineers other than Doug Sax whose records you like and would recommend, that would help someone to identify well recorded music. I’ve got Layla’s recording engineer, Tom Dowd, permanently blacklisted.
By the way my new Japanese SHM SA-CD 2013 Layla remaster came in the mail today and is playing at this moment. It’s not great, but manages to be listenable as advertised. The bass is boomy and Clapton sounds like he’s singing in an echo chamber next door, but it’s a significant improvement. Turning up the volume while decreasing the bass is helping a bit. It’s such a lovely album though. Kind of like viewing DaVinci’s Last Supper, where even though over half of the original paint is missing you can still appreciate you’re looking at a masterpiece. Take it easy,
Mike |
