Auditioned Magico A3 - VERY DARK...

The Magico a3  and 5 need current tubes not a good match 

@milpai Yeah I guess I like a certain amp style also.  I use Luxman 509x but my demo was on an M900-u....about as good and neutral as you're going to get.  Went back to back with Kanta, Sopra, Persona and Magico A3....one of these was not like the other.  

@mtbiker29,I suspect your amp could be a mismatch with the speaker? I have heard the Focal 1028 and know what you mean.

Old thread I know, but i’m with the OP 100%. I truly want to like them, but they sound like someone threw a towel over them after listening to some of my preferred speakers. Admittedly my ideal sound is much more forward (ala Focal as one example) vs. this.

Sorry, the A3's need to be paired with the right amplifier. I was fortunate enough to listen to 5 amplifiers in the system. I preferred the tube amplifiers over the solid state amplifiers by a wide margin. To my ears and other people I had over, the Dynaco ST-70 was an amazing match with the A3's. The noise floor was higher than the Prima Luna and it also could have used more power. A mono block set up with ST-70's would probably been a good amount of power but the noise floor still would have been higher. I'm planning on rolling the two center 12au7's on the EVO 400 with vintage Great Britain Mullard tubes to see how that sounds but there is so much more separation between instruments and vocals with the Prima Luna than with the solid state amps I had in the system. The overall soundstage with the tube amps blew away all of the solid state amps. I also like the ultra linear/triode function on the Prima Luna.

So we have to pair these speakers with speakers?

The A3's need to be paired with the right speakers in order to get all out of them. Anyone who doesn't think they're some of the very best speakers they've ever heard isn't listening with a proper pairing, period.

I upgraded my amp from a Yamaha A-3000 to Prima Luna EVO 400 power amplifier and the change couldn't have been more dramatic!

I had a buddy over yesterday who was moved to tears while hearing Beethoven Symphony no. 6 in F major with Bruno Walter conducting. Analogue Productions Basie Jam was also pretty spectacular sounding!

And I highly doubt that these are the most transparent transducers in the world LOL

Sounds real audio I agree with you I listen to the A3 and I found the bright and edgy. They monitor audio Platinum 200 Gen 2 are much better speaker they sound more natural and that MPD tweeter is much much better than the dome Tweeter that magico uses.

I've owned the A3's since December and believe that they're still breaking in, paired with the Yamaha A-S3000 integrated. I borrowed a Prima Luna Dialogue One integrated for three weeks and the sonics were much more natural even though they could have used more power. I added a DYNA PAS-3X tube preamplifier to the Yamaha and the sonics do sound much more natural that with just SS amplification. I think Prima Luna EVO 400 mono blocks and preamplifier would be a killer combination.

Yeah, the broker I bought the A3's from said they need AT LEAST 300-400 hours of break in. That's a lot of albums! I typically listen to 1-3 albums at most in a sitting. Although with new speakers I suspect that number will go up! Now I'm thinking of adding the Modwright 9.0 phono preamp in order to have both of my TT's connected. That may add a touch of warmth with the tubes to clean SS power. Another consideration down the road if I need additional power would be to add the PS Audio BHK stereo power amp which delivers 500 Watts @ 4 ohms. If anyone has information on those two components please discuss your impressions. I'm getting excited, the A3's come tomorrow!

I’m not sure if ebm is talking to me, but my electronics are a Gryphon Diablo 300, Holo May DAC and also Audiomirror tubadour3 DAC. Also had a Krell Duo 300xd amp with Audio Research LS28 pre. Innuos Zenith3 streamer with Phoenix. Cables are Audioquest Hurricane power, Shunyata Alpha speaker cables and Audio Sensibilty speaker cables. It;s odd that the other 2 sets of speakers didn’t have any issues with my bad electronics and cables. The A3’s were fully broken in with over 1000 hours on them. 

Very sad as over 850 pairs sold you should have got ROCKPORTS or VIMBERG you made a big mistake.Im sure your speakers did not have at least 500 hours break in to sound there best or you had bad electronics and cables.HELLO!!

I had the A3’s for a few months before I had to get rid of them. I preferred the Audiovector SR3 and the Nola KO2 over the A3. The vocals sounded similar to the vocals on the Wharfedale Elysian....a little closed in and too controlled...like a boxer who won’t “let his hands fly”. 

I tend to agree with the slightly shaded, more reticent sound of the Magico’s.  I went with the 800 Diamonds instead....just so much there there!!

If I had to do it over again Magico A3 definitely would be on my short list.  I don't even want to listen to the similar S series that goes for $60k lol! A3 struck me as so coherent with detail that isn't hard or bright. Wilson Sophia would be a comparo if you shopping in this range but A3 better. I only heard A3 with Hegel sounds promising. Magico is expensive but lives up to the hype not like Estelon. Instead of spending money on expensive cables and dacs put the money in a speaker like the A3 and treat your room. I can see amplification with say with class A amp or refined A/B with tube preamp or if you want to keep it simple Hegel all in one amp. Good luck!😊

Hegen amps have a very high damping factor to go with the power ratings and i had a pair of salon 1's that were balanced kinda dark with my parasound a21 that the h360 totally transformed, Knife cuts both ways tho and bright speakers will be unbearable with the hegel. 

I ordered a pair of A3's last week. I heard a pair last year and it was as if I'd never heard good sound before! I asked how many speakers are we listening to? Two. Is that a tube amp? Nope SS. Is there a sub woofer hooked up? Nope. They were hooked up to a Hegel amp but I don't remember the model. I'm hoping my Yamaha A-S3000 will be enough amp for them. I have a small listening room. The Yamaha is rated at 150Wpc + 150Wpc @ 4 ohms. The A3's power rating is 50 RMS to 300 RMS. So it would seem that the Yamaha is within the range? I love the looks of the Yamaha I'd hate to part with it. I don't know what I would go to? Perhaps an integrated by Dan D'Agostino?

Speaker designs from the 60’s nailed it...full sound, larger drivers and substantial crossovers.  That’s why I bought a pair of JBL 4429’s almost as a retro temporary fantasy ride (90 day trial period).  Surely I would have to return them after I realized it was just that, a fantasy.  Over a year later and they are my go to speaker for pure musical enjoyment!  Most high end speakers these days purposely design the life out of them...flat flat flat!!  Music is flowing, relaxed and powerful.  Music can be wild and full and impactful.  The JBL’s allow the music to flow unabated and without compression....I’m back in my parent’s basement!

One of the major benefits of all Magico speakers is their ability to reproduce the signal with amazing accuracy and transparency. Send them a perfectly accurate signal and they will produce a wonderfully 3 dimensional, Immersive, highly engaging, pure and totally convincing sound that represents exactly what’s in the recording. Play something like Mike Oldfields Tubular Bells 2003 and if your system is working really well, you’ll be blown away by the way the sound literally transforms your reality, lighting up the huge recorded ‘space’ with beautiful, luminous treble energy. Rhythms are massively engaging, practically bouncing you out of your listening chair, the humanness and expressiveness of Master of Ceremonies John Clees voice is a joy and the warmth and beauty of the guitars in Ambient Guitars will bring tears to your eyes. The system? A pair of Magico S1MkIIs driven by a pair of Devialet 440 CI Expert Pros with an Innuos Statement providing the source. Dark? The treble literally shimmers and sparkles with life, energy and air. . Nails on chalk? Not unless someone actually recorded exactly that, then it would be reproduced with all the edginess and discomfort the real sound requires. What’s on the recording it’s exactly what you get...without any overriding character other than your room.
Magico are not the only company to develop and manufacture great loudspeakers....but they are great loudspeakers, capable of generating huge, texurally detailed, highly cohesive soundscapes populated by musicians and instruments that sound uncannily real. If that’s not what you’re hearing, and it may very well not be, look elsewhere in the system, because the Magicos will faithfully reproduce whatever signal they’re fed, with no editorialising or artifice to makes a poor signal sound good and a great signal sound overly warm, congested, damped or whatever.
Walk into your listening room, select your track, switch off the lights, press play, close your eyes and Magicos will create an altogether different reality...a space that sounds completely different to your room, populated by highly focused 3 dimensional sounds that hang in the air and sound like they’re being made by real trumpets, trombones, drums, guitars, violins, cello, whatever. Instruments have vitality, vibrancy and life. They sound alive within energy.
That’s how Magicos can sound if fed a pristine signal, but they are equally capable of replaying a bad signal just as accurately.

In my experience, when a system is sounding musically nearly perfect it takes very little to upset its balance. I recently added a new Neotech JSSG360 DC cable to my network switch and even that small change is sufficient to rob the system of some of its magic, to the point its nothing like as much fun to listen to until the cable is burned in. When systems become highly accurate they are also highly revealing and even minor errors in set-up will have major impacts on the sound. You only need go to Audio shows to hear that.

The VAC amps will amplify the signal its fed and send it to the Magico A3 speakers, so if the sound is very dark sounding and lacking treble sparkle and extension, the first place to look at is the source. Magico speakers are incredibly accurate and transparent ....and will present a beautiful interpretation of the signal they’re sent. Similarly I understand that the VAC amps are pretty capable, so I would look at the Sony source for the missing air, transparency and sparkle. If its not present from the getgo the speakers and amp have no chance

I'd like the Sim audio p8 W8 paired with the monitor audio Platinum 200 or 300 generation 2. Very three-dimensional wide and deep soundstage. Very natural sounding speaker. Human voice is very natural, instruments like piano string bass and violins all have that woodiness to them and the air and space between the different layers is incredible. Cymbals have a very natural brassy sound, not hard metallic edgey like with a beryllium dome tweeter.

Wow lets bad rap MAGICO again dude!!

OMG - Devialet on Magico is like nails on chalk - period! Had a buddy bring over his 400s and it was awful on my S3s and we both hated the combo. Ear bleedingly so. Blaming the speaker here for harsh top end is simply ludicrous with that pairing. I’ve had a wonderful experience with A3 on Gryphon Diablo/SR Level 4/Galileo system. No harshness whatsoever and had me questioning just how close the A3 gets to the S3Mk2. IMO challenging that speaker in easy room placement, coherence, dynamics and a visceral room lock on the low end (although not as powerful and extended bass). Of course the S3Mk2 is sweeter and more extended up top and fills the room more with its lifelike ability to scale in three dimensions.

qwaszxxx,

Many thanks for Your post and thoughts.
It seems that A series will still need that diamond coating to reach smoothness of higher frequencies.
Compromises, always some compromises that killing softly.

Vule,

I have actually done a back to back audition of those two speakers - both set up in the same room, both driven by the same Devialet 220. The room was small and not a proper listening room.

The two overwhelming impressions was that the S1 had much more pleasant treble. Less sharp, just clear, clean, and more relaxed.

The A3 however just felt like a much more complete product - which of course makes sense as it’s a full-range speaker. While the treble was a bit sharp for me, the mids were nicer in the A3, and the bass was outrageously strong (in that small room anyway). I was blown away.

While I was very impressed by the A3s but personally could never justify the expense of the s1 as I’d also need a sub. I just don’t understand the logic behind the pricing structure in this case. That extra bit of smoothness in the highs is not worth it IMO.

Side note - It was during that audition thought that made me realize how much I like the sound of ribbon tweeters. Im very very seriously considering purchasing the A3s - I sure did love the low-end punch the A3s offered. But there’s a nagging voice in the back of my head telling me maybe a beryllium dome tweeter won’t give me the kind of sound I’m after.

Hi

I haven't had a chance to listen to A3s.
Has anyone had chance to compare A3s with S1 Mk2s ?

Recently I read review on SoundStage Ultra site where reviewer (hilariously) claimed that 9 of 10 listeners would choose A3s instead of S1 Mk2s. Can that be a true?

Audioguy85

why are you even here? Go somewhere else and enjoy your Timex and Bose mini system

I'll keep my $449 pair of wharfedale 225's, thanks...my god 10k for a pair of speakers, I'd have a pretty tough time convincing wife on these. .not that I'm foolish enough to spend 10k on anything audio wise. Imo a huge waste of money. 

alexb76 O
  Auditioned Magico A3 - VERY DARK...

It was mentioned to me at a show that the impedance of the A3 and V3 are very similar.
If you have a look at this impedance curve, it doesn't suit tube amps right though the bass and also at 4khz, unless they have a 2ohm transformer tap that still has at least/more than >50w from it.

https://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/508Magfig1.jpg

Cheers George

@prof 
Agreed, I think these speakers are a love it or hate it, are VERY difficult to setup or match to equipment and that's probably why there are varied opinions on em.  For me, I have to move on, as none I tried suited my ears, while quite a few others did.

Seeing this thread title bumped up reminded me:  I recently had a chance to listen again to a pair of Magicos (M3 I believe) in a very nice listening room at a dealer, hooked up to massive Mcintosh amps.

A variety of music was played, starting with some solo violin, other string stuff, jazz, etc.   First impression as always with Magico:  pretty vivid, detailed sound, floating free of the speaker.  But tonally...I did my usual eyes closed test and asked "could I believe this is real, and if not, how does it depart?"  Pertinent to the thread title: My overriding impression was that the tone was just darker than life.  This was the case with everything played through them.  I can imagine someone being blown away by the realism of the sound in terms of sheer detail and texture though.  And the muted bell of a trumpet was fantastically portrayed, a real sense of metallic solidity.  But like the A3 I heard, at least to me, the tone just didn't have an "it" factor that grabbed me either in "I want to keep listening" terms or "compared to reality."

None of that is to actually conclude "Magico's are dark."  Obviously it could be just bad luck in that both places I auditioned them, with proprietors who are very experienced with Magico, just didn't pair them with the right amps.  I dunno.

But in these and previous encounters I've had with Magico my personal reaction is respect and not love.  They check lots of the audiophile boxes, but I have yet to hear a Magico that didn't seem sort of dry, buttoned up and sort of clinical.  The music happens "over there" behind the speakers but doesn't seem to reach out and boogie.

Again...not a pronouncement on the whole line at all, just how the ones I've heard sounded.  


But if the Magico sound appeals (and I wish it did to me as I was prepared to buy A3s), I'd think an owner would be in heaven, as they are mighty impressive in what they can do.

WOW, I had no idea I get 147 comments about my A3 audition... haven’t read them all, but wanted to add that I auditioned MORE Magico speakers last week at AXPONA... and surprise, surprise, NONE impressed! I don’t mean they suck or anything, but they were NOWHERE near as good as their price may suggest! I suspect the money goes more to construction of the speakers than sound!

I listened in Magico room to M2, then in Classe room, Synergetic Research room to M3, and then A3 in another room, A3 was still dark, M3 better, but still "meh"! For instance, a tiny $1200 Elac Carina impressed more (for its size), the Harbeth was magical sounding, some of the exotic speakers in the $50-100K range were all impressive, Wilson sounded like orchestra, Vandersteen sounded like live music, Magico was like just OK!

So, either no one can set these up properly due to insane power demand they may have, or they’re just not that great or to my taste. I am now fully off Magico bandwagon and will be looking at other options in the A3 price range!

If it come into play, and I'm sure it does, I am using the just released Peachtree Nova 500 integrated.  Gobs of power and very neutral-sounding unit.

Who cares what the press says and the reviews? Means next to nothing. I think the most important question is what equipment the OP currently uses and what he has heard in the past that he held in high regard. I own a VAC Phi 200. The VAC is a relatively forgiving amp but I am certain that it didnt have enough juice for the Magicos. 

I am really looking forward to what the setup at Axpona is going to sound like.  I'm sure they'll have some A3s around there somewhere.  Those rooms are notoriously bad so it will be good to see how they interact.  I'm still lovin' mine!  :-)

I really would like to get to the bottom of this because what I heard was just so profoundly out of balance on classical, again way too much bass on a relative level, and the dealer shook his head in agreement essentially with me, although this is the first A3 this dealer has received.  I guess I'll never really know but I trust dealers to KNOW how to setup and demo what they sell.  They specifically setup this for my appointment with electronics they thought were compatible (a Constellation integrated).  Perhaps we should have listened using other amplification...I think they had some solution pieces around but their main line is VAC (tubes of course).  I dunno.  Color me puzzled by the huge variation in opinions here.  I don't want to sound like a classical music snob here but with classical music which is ALL natural unamplified acoustic instrumental music it is incredibly important to get some semblance of balance through the range of the music.  Balance was 100% absent from my demo.  Very very dark.  Clearly that's not the experience of other listeners in the thread.

As another actual A3 owner, I'd also attest to the POV that they are not dark at all.  As one other member said, they do not have a tipped up high-end of the spectrum to make them sizzle like many of their peers do that get much of the attention and adulation.  Those might be great to make you take notice, but listening to them for extended sessions will make your ears hurt.  I can listen to the A3s for hours.  I've gone through lots of speaks from conventional drivers to planars to electrostatics.  So far these to me are the best balanced transducer I have found.  Anyone shopping in this price range should try to give them a listen;  but make sure they are broken in and have a well-matched setup upstream.  That doesn't necessarily mean high $!

I have seen a common theme of people hearing them with Constellation gear and coming away with that 'dark' sound feeling.  I wonder if that's a bad pairing?  

Wow bad rap magico A3s over 700 pairs sold people LOVE dark.They are back ordered until Aug.What other speaker can say that??

I know this is an old post but I heard the Magico A3 for the first time last week and I absolutely agree with the OP....very very dark tonally,...on an absolute basis way too much bass, although that bass was tuneful actually and articulate it was WAY to high in level, so much so that it pretty much obliterated what might be going on farther up the frequency spectrum. This was on classical music. And yes I attend 2-4 concerts monthly of the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra and even though they play in a relatively dead over damped hall that sound is NOTHING like the A3’s. Amplification was Constellation, pretty highly regarded. Pretty shocked at this actually because I had high hopes. Never was a speaker ruled out so quickly. My reference system at present is pass amplification, Aesthetix preamps, PS Audio Directstream DAC and I’m 61 and over the decades I’ve had ARC gear, Soundlabs(1) (the smallish "Pristines"), Magnepans, Acoustats, BAT amps, etc etc, which is all to say I’ve heard ALOT and this is just tonally DARK, waaaay so.  @haloman, the S5 is a different best altogether, especially the Mk I.  The S5 Mk I (which I havent' heard but I'm depending on the opinion of my dealer who showed me the A3) was the real home run of the S series in particular but at least according to my dealer they shelved down the tweeter level in the Mark II and now, while no where near as dark as the A3, its considerably darker than your Mk I's.  Of course that was in response to some feedback that the Mark I's were too hot on the top apparently.  So I'm well aware that there is a subjective element to all of this but occasionally you get into the realm of differences that are so profound they are beyond "preferences" and I would put this dark, bass heavy characteristic of the A3 on classical music in that category. 

Yes, it may take 25 to 30k in gear to make a 10k speaker sing, The higher the resolution the more you will need to spend.I like dark sounding. Which my speakers are not and nowhere near the price of the magico's.

Late to this interesting thread as I only just read it.

I am the owner of the Audia Flight Strumento No 1 pre and No 4 power amp, both MK2 versions with the Magico S5MK1.

Firstly, I am not normally in the business of defending my system on a public forum, especially when you have the faith in letting others listen to it and then read their opinion on how bad it sounded.

My system does suffer from a over dampened room. It is not cold, small and dull as stated. Dark I would agree with though.

I also own a Supratek Cabernet and think they are fantastic for the money and do portray a larger sound. Is it better then the Audia Flight Strumento, not for my ears. The AF is more linear in the sound and is very refined with a much lower noise floor. The Supratek adds colour and in doing so, provides a rich midrange (which I really like) and a nice big spacious sound that I have often heard with valves.

I like both preamps for different reasons but overall much prefer the Audia Flight Strumento No1 MK2. Just matches the amplifier better in terms of gain and is a more accurate conduit to the music, plus it has all the modern features like remote, HT bypass, gain offsets and a really nice volume control.

As to Magico’s being dark and soulless, cant accept the later as it will portray whatever you feed it and can be rich and warm or lean depending on the gear. Dark I can understand in that it doesn’t have an overly prominent top end, very balanced I would say. I’ve had speakers with the extra sizzle up top and whilst they can bring out a bit more micro detail, I find them fatiguing in the long run.

These are measurements taken at the anechoic chamber at the Harman research center that I believe floyd toole uses for his research/books.