I have been forced to change my mind on so many things that I won't call much of anything snake oil unless I try it myself, but so far, for me, the money they want for fuses is excessive.
As for the cables don't matter crowd, why then did Tektronics years ago when they were THE preeminent O'Scope manufacturer have a square wave output that you attached the probe cable to and then adjust a variable capacitor in order to attain the cleanest square wave on the screen of the scope? That trimmer cap should have been useless if you listen to the ignorant folks here! Yet it made quite a difference, and if you amplified the signal, listened to it, the crispness of the wave would certainly differ as the square wave became more and less distorted.
Certainly with an old O'Scope and a complex signal that signal is too complicated to see the effect of different cables, though if you had a storage scope that could capture multiple images, and overlay them using the same instant of music, with different cables, there is no dbout that the difference would be visual as well as audible. I am sure that some research facilities have such a scope, but they are not commonly available and are not found in catalogs the last I looked at scopes. Anyway many like speakers and equipment that renders virtually any music pleasurable to them. This sort of equipment doesn't have great detail, which is quite fatiguing to many people. I find their systems fatiguing. So, don't concern yourself with the low resolution masses, they enjoy what they enjoy, and that is as it should be.
Personally until I purchased a particular DAC, I never concerned myself with power, but it was rather bright, and made listening annoying. I got an isolation transformer and could listen to virtually everything then
Power cords can be woven so as to filter certain frequencies too. I have not tried changing the sound of my system with such filters as the transformer worked for me. Not to mention how many differently woven power cords there are and how difficult it would be to find the "best" one. If you moved, the line noise could well be completely different at your new dwelling setting you back to step 1 with power cables. So, that's a bridge too far for me, it just seems impractical. If you are seeking the ultimate you'll likely go there, but my system sounds so realistic now that I am just not worried about it, another DAC, perhaps, but that's about it, and the DAC is pretty solid though on some few songs it's still a bit bright for me.
That's the trouble with asking such questions. You just don't know others' standards and if your goals align with theirs, etc. If you are looking for different things, no matter how great their advice is to someone, it may be worthless to you!
listen to the technicians of this industry that design the audio products you have and listen to. AND YOU WON"T SEE THEM ON THREADS LIKE THIS AGREEING WITH WHAT SAID HERE ABOUT THE SOUND IMPROVMENT DETAILS AND AC FUSE PLACEMENT DIRECTION, EVER!!!
In all fairness, you don't see them on threads like this disagreeing with what is said here, either.
Any fuse with proper blow rate is good. Hearing the “stuff I’ve never noticed before” is tripe. It’s a fuse, if they stuff it with bees wax, or mercury, glo-goo, Italian meat sauce, or bunny farts. You tell a lie long enough, eventually it becomes truth.
look around........
Question: If you blow a fuse full of bunny farts, does it smell like a carrot?
Any fuse with proper blow rate is good. Hearing the “stuff I’ve never noticed before” is tripe. It’s a fuse, if they stuff it with bees wax, or mercury, glo-goo, Italian meat sauce, or bunny farts. You tell a lie long enough, eventually it becomes truth.
cerberus79 A few months ago I purchased a used pair of speakers from another Agon member. To my surprise all the fuses were Orange fuses. I listened to them and then to satisfy my curiosity I replaced them with ordinary buss fuses and could not hear a difference. I did this test with a bunch of friends and neither I or them could hear a difference. Kind of just says it all doesn't it?
To those non technical thinking of purchasing these $$$ fuses. Just save your $150+ and do this instead.
A fuse: 1: two end caps 2: short piece of fuse wire connecting the two end caps through a glass tube (that’s all she wrote).
To those "non technical" members that are interested in "maybe" wasting their money, do not listen to the non-technical, listen to the technicians of this industry that design the audio products you have and listen to. AND YOU WON"T SEE THEM ON THREADS LIKE THIS AGREEING WITH WHAT SAID HERE ABOUT THE SOUND IMPROVMENT DETAILS AND AC FUSE PLACEMENT DIRECTION, EVER!!! Just clean and tighten your fuse holder and re-new your fuse (if old) with a good quality 50cent Bussman, Littlefuse or similar.As with "many switch-on surges" they do deteriorate, bend, stretch and get crusty with electrolysis formations on their fusible wire elements before they give out, as these pics show of a fuse wire element ageing over time show. https://ibb.co/9NbTwqK (even the $$$ boutique ones will age just as much also)
One person advocating fuses here has > 30% of their system budget tied up in cables. I can’t take this persons views on anything seriously knowing that.
+1 and some!!
cerberus79 A few months ago I purchased a used pair of speakers from another Agon member. To my surprise all the fuses were Orange fuses. I listened to them and then to satisfy my curiosity I replaced them with ordinary buss fuses and could not hear a difference. I did this test with a bunch of friends and neither I or them could hear a difference. Kind of just says it all doesn’t it?
To those non technical thinking of purchasing these $$$ fuses. Just save your $150+ and do this instead.
A fuse: 1: two end caps 2: short piece of fuse wire connecting the two end caps through a glass tube (that’s all she wrote).
To those "non technical" members that are interested in "maybe" wasting their money, do not listen to the non-technical, listen to the technicians of this industry that design the audio products you have and listen to. AND YOU WON"T SEE THEM ON THREADS LIKE THIS AGREEING WITH WHAT SAID HERE ABOUT THE SOUND IMPROVMENT DETAILS AND AC FUSE PLACEMENT DIRECTION, EVER!!! Just clean and tighten your fuse holder and re-new your fuse (if old) with a good quality 50cent Bussman, Littlefuse or similar.As with "many switch-on surges" they do deteriorate, bend, stretch and get crusty with electrolysis formations on their fusible wire elements before they give out, as these pics show of a fuse wire element ageing over time show. https://ibb.co/9NbTwqK (even the $$$ boutique ones will age just as much also)
I've had good luck with them and have been able to tell the difference in performance between some. Can't say they work that way for everything, differences are more immediately noticeable when used with a component that also effects video like a home theater power conditioner or replacing a fuse in a tv or monitor itself (as I have done). Telling the differences between fuses in audio components takes more time and greater discernment. I can't say I've tried many brands against one another as only a few offer money back trial periods (Synergistic Research and Alan Maher Designs come to mind; I'd like to try Telos' top of the line, Hi Fi Tuning's top of the line, or Audio Magic's top of the line fuses but I don't want to buy something find out it's not as good as a fuse I have and then have to sell it for a loss). I've noticed an immediate difference between a Taiwanese fuse with silver wire and silver plated copper caps (it was still better than the stock ceramic fuse) and Acme Audio's cfc cryo silver fuse (which is a huge bang for your buck at only about $20). I also noticed a difference between a Synergistic Blue fuse and Alan Maher's $200 fuse (which I bought because I both had a 30% off code and I saw a massive difference between their limited $95 fuse in one of my components in spring of last year, plus they have a money back trial period), and that difference grew more apparent over a couple of weeks' time.The only types I've tried are Hi Fi Tuning Silver Star, Synergistic Blue, Alan Maher's $95 Ltd. Fuse, Alan Maher's $200 fuse, a Taiwanese Silver wire silver plated copper cap fuse, and Acme Audio's CFC Cryo Silver fuse. I'll likely trial Synergistic's Orange fuse just to check it out. My suggestion is to try one of Acme Audio Labs' CFC Cryo Silver fuses to just check out fuse rolling. They are cheap enough and to me have enough of an impact that they are a good litmus test.
One person advocating fuses here has > 30% of their system budget tied up in cables. I can't take this persons views on anything seriously knowing that.
I haven't ever been able to tell a difference with cable either. I have only used entry level MIT($50 IC)and upgraded to Audioquest($200-300 IC). I admit this was purely aesthetic and just because I enjoy buying stuff for my stereo. My local dealer offered to teach me how to discern between cables years ago and I declined. I tried the Blue SR fuses a couple years ago and couldn't hear any difference. Maybe some of us simply aren't trained enough to hear the subtle changes? I have different electronics now compared to when I tried the Blue. I also only have one fuse so am thinking about trying the Orange just for fun due to the return policy.
audio2design I've been MAD twice in my life.. I'm 65.. Angry? LOL HERE.. Nothing to get angry about.. Two sides, two views.
One side continues to tell the other side they can't hear what they hear.
The other side continues to say they can, and wish the other side could hear what they are enjoying.
NOT I hate the change, BUT I like what I hear. I've never heard "I hate the change". I've heard "I put it in backwards" a few times.. NEVER . NOT EVER, "I hate the change".. WHY?... LOL Yea it's all in their head.. "I heard NO change", but NEVER, it sounds BAD, or worse.
Why "Nothing at all or a change" but never BAD.. Just seems strange from a mechanics point of view..
That is the problem, it is in some folks head, and not in others.. WHY?
You are confused. Fuses are flat earthers. The eschew science and think since they have convinced themselves of something it must be true. You guys get just as angry when told you are wrong too.
Flat earthers, get what’s left over in the bottom of my tool box.. Heck they don’t care right.. I’m sure there is some welding cable and starter cables. Plenty of good ol copper with polyvinyl covers.. Fuses; Busman, ACME and Napa circuit breakers. :-)
I pick MC, nonoise, roxy54, rodman99999, and JESUS for my build consultants. Exchangeable at any time..
You’re already stuck by yourself.. Crap George won’t have ya.. Tell um George.. LOL Army of ONE... I got 4 people and GOD on my side what you got.
cakyol ok you got him.. I bet you two couldn’t get a lightbulb to work.. flat earthen’ screw ball.. Mercy.. He scoped a fuse.. YUP that’s what he said.. NO HE DID’NT.. That’s who you get to work with. Who, else? Satan she/he might squeeze you in every other Monday at 11:00-11:15. Watch out SHES got a temper. My guy, he turns the other cheek..
audio2design1,025 posts02-13-2021 12:34pmWhile I am quite certain fuses in power supplies make no difference after showing that to many audiophiles in their system, I am also convinced george will never learn how electricity works and will keep bringing up AC like somehow it matters in the discussion.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What part of "It Sounds better" don't YOU understand?
or
"It sounds the same".
For the record anytime YOU want to match wits, I'm up for the task.
FOR ALL TO SEE. I may dummy it down just to be of good cheer, and show respect towards others, BUT how a power supply works in a friggin' little stereo? Let me brush up for 15 minutes and I'll give you a run for your money... audio2design.. Geez you really think your smart don't you..
Better yet, I'll build mine, you build yours and well see who know what..
I'll leave it to someone neutral like Nelson Pass to judge our work.. he's up for it I think. there a few qualified guy I know. James B died. Lets see who else. Hads to friggin' sloppy to judge my work.. Who ever you or I can talk into it.. How's that?
What do you say? 10-25 watt amp SS or Valve. You pick..
I'll pick my stuff, you pick your stuff
Put your MOUTH where your money is.
George.. maybe not.. he might just surprise you and me when it comes to board level tech and build quality.. He understands quality. Just a little thick in the fuse department..
So you up for it?
Or
You gonna tell me a whole new way to feed my chickens?
My hand are good for 15 minutes twice a day... My mind.. 24/7
While I am quite certain fuses in power supplies make no difference after showing that to many audiophiles in their system, I am also convinced george will never learn how electricity works and will keep bringing up AC like somehow it matters in the discussion.
These **** ***** fusers here will have you believe a $150> is better for sound than that circuit breaker, because the fuse "they say" is "directional" even though it's in an AC (alternating current) mains path.
Take your time and go back over all the discussions on fuses and link them here so we can see what you claim: that someone claimed a fuse is better than a circuit breaker.
invalid122 posts02-14-2021 1:40amI can’t use an SR fuse in my amp it has a breaker.
These **** ***** fusers here will have you believe a $150> is better for sound than that circuit breaker, because the fuse "they say" is "directional" even though it's in an AC (alternating current) mains path.
Consider yourself lucky that your not conned into spending >$150+ on these $1 fuses that does absolutely nothing for the sound quality.
One need not understand one single bit of amp design and their power supplies in order to hear a difference that a fuse can make. Stop with the red herrings that take us out into the weeds and away from the subject under discussion.
Your appeals to authority are useless. That, and they show a tendency to be closed minded leading one to think you're a victim of expectation bias. You've read that the fuse is only a safety device so therefore, it cannot have an effect on the sound.
You've painted yourself into a corner and refuse to trust your own ears, which if they are good, can hear a difference and yet you won't admit it. Instead, you cite anecdotal events of others you know who do hear a difference and claim they can't if subjected to some parlor trick.
Have a discussion with google, their context is still off on voice recognition hence why they correct their once and the wrong one the other time.
That said your pedantic attempt at a deflection does not change that no audiophiles who I know who claimed fuse differences could ever pass a blind test. Not one and many have very resolving systems. Which brings us back to almost all fuse believers with rare exception don't understand power supplies or the details of amps to know how a fuse would behave in a power supply circuit
audio2design,
Sorry oldhvy but your lack of knowledge is showing. I will say is again. Why is it that people that don't understand amps and amplifiers or power supplies are the ones that are fuses? I have shown many so called audiophiles there fuses are all in their heads. What does that mean?
Don't be so smug. Your sentences make no sense here, and it's their, not there.
Fuses heat up. The resistance changes. It appears that no one has measured the sound of good fuses versus standard ones. Some people here have test equipment. Snake oil rules, whether fuses help or not.
Sorry oldhvy but your lack of knowledge is showing. I will say is again. Why is it that people that don't understand amps and amplifiers or power supplies are the ones that are fuses? I have shown many so called audiophiles there fuses are all in their heads. What does that mean?
I HAVE tried them. That is WHY i am commenting. I also measured on a scope. There is no difference.
Please take my advice about finding a corner wall :)
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I just read an interesting piece, on another thread. Everyone read the information, everyone had an opinion.
Yet I dug out of the information, the "LAST TEST" is to listen. He the person being interviewed also went on to say that listening should precede bench testing. In other words if the stupid thing sounds bad to begin with THEN scope and testing ain’t gonna fix it.. WHY reinvent the wheel. Just to many GREAT amps to copy or just BUY... He also said testing a static fuse is NOT testing under a load. THAT tiny little piece of shi$ wire is ALL that is supplying your 5-20k amp.
Your telling me you scoped a SR Orange or blue fuse?
cakyol, you and George tell fibs, that is all there is too it... Neither of you have listened to SR fuses.. plane and simple...
The amps both of you talk about, would do nothing but sound better. I know you didn’t scope or try them.. Too many years a mechanic... your both full of it.. BUT I still like you.. ay.. But it could be a hearing issue.. I don’t know that for sure... But no, you guys haven’t scoped anything...
Telling me that a .5 amp filament bouncing around when you fire an amp up or hit heavy bass notes, stuff doesn’t move or flex? Geez at least wrap it in tape.. Keep using that 1 dollar Busman. LOL Enjoy the sound, but it could be better..
Synergistic Research Orange fuse DID make a difference. And HIFI Tuning fuse also. Not snake oil. Period. Try for yourself in a system that is highly resolving
Fuse believers should please repeat after me, while slowly and periodically banging your head against a corner wall:
God grant me the serenity to accept that a fuse does not ever affect the audio performance of an amplifier, the courage to admit to that and the education to understand what a fuse really does, together with the wisdom to know the difference.
Repeat this about 10,000 times and maybe there will be some hope for you.
Let me joint half the band, I like the fuse, I don’t like the price.
10-30.00 I can see. Over 30.00 for a fuse NO.. There has to be 100-300% mark up. NO it’s not ok...
Just like 49,000.00 amps, with circuit boards in them.. AND every part you can buy off the shelf, less the real fancy CnC cases.
10-20K Cables?
You have got to be kidding me..
I worked on Rollers (Rolls-Royce) as a kid in SF I did maintenance on them. Some of the best I ever worked on, but I couldn't afford the insurance on them. LOL I still want one...with a chauffeur..
BUT
If this is what the market will bear, then good for the company that can pull it off. They just won’t get my money.. No bad mouthing as far as "does it work". It did for me over 50% of the time. A customer can send the other 50% back. That makes it 100% satisfaction or your money BACK.. THE PRICE, didn’t work for me, 100% of the time whether it worked or not, though. The Rolls that's different. :-)
More like you "allnoise" get off your BS fuse trip!!!!!! and get into real audio, and get off that synthetic ****, it’s doing more harm to your mind than you know.
More like a networking planting by a snake oil fuse company to bring up + votes for $150 fuses One post, no discussions, no country, just reeks of a recruitment drive to shill for $150 fuses to me
williampowell...either you are new to these forums or you are trolling and sitting back laughing your a** off at what you started. There are dozens of threads where fuses have been discussed. Gotta be a troll.
More like a networking planting by a snake oil fuse company to bring up + votes for $150 fuses One post, no discussions, no country, just reeks of a recruitment drive to shill for $150 fuses to me.
Does anyone else look at this as I do? Because there’s very very big % profit bucks behind it
What’s the markup on your stuff?
Isn’t it funny how new members with zero or very little posts are drawn straight to fuse threads.
Isn’t it funny how some long time members while (wile) away the day, waiting for a fuse thread to start so then can pounce on it like a rabid dingo?
If I were a sceptical kind ’a bloke, heaven forbid!! I would almost believe it’s new membership networking drive by these "SNAKE OIL" fuse companies to shill indirectly with these "SO CALLED" very new members
If I were a skeptical person, I’d think it were a member with an agenda. One founded by losing all his previous arguments on the subject and all he has left is insults and hurt feelings.
williampowell...either you are new to these forums or you are trolling and sitting back laughing your a** off at what you started. There are dozens of threads where fuses have been discussed. Gotta be a troll.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
