Are there speakers that disappear regardless of the recording?


I have a pair of B&W 805d3’s. Strictly analog system. Source is the Clearaudio Ovation, Hana SL cart. Herron VTPH-2A phono stage. Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II integrated amp. The speakers sound great most of the time. I have many records that cause the speakers to essentially disappear with a holographic sound stage, beautiful imaging and great dynamics. Some other records, not so much. Curious if there’s a way to achieve disappearing speakers no matter what recording you throw at them? Thanks!

paulgardner

Two that come to mind are the above-mentioned Linkwitz LXmini's (where the sweet spot exists pretty much everywhere in the room) and the venerable Spica TC 50's and 60's.  I heard a pair of ML Montis with a Lyndorf receiver and in the narrow  sweet spot, the speakers really did disappear.  I imagine the Cube Audio speakers would do the same thing.

Two that come to mind are the above-mentioned Linkwitz LXmini's (where the sweet spot exists pretty much everywhere in the room) and the venerable Spica TC 50's and 60's.  I heard a pair of ML Montis with a Lyndorf receiver and in the narrow  sweet spot, the speakers really did disappear.  I imagine the Cube Audio speakers would do the same thing.

whitestix

Two that come to mind are the above-mentioned Linkwitz LXmini's (where the sweet spot exists pretty much everywhere in the room)"

 

This

I am not sure it is possible with a traditional cone and dome type speaker.  As many have pointed out, mono recordings, etc... are going to simply radiate.  They are directional.  

A speaker that reflects off the room and uses the room to create your soundstage would be your best bet.  MBL probably would be your best option as it has a 360 degree radiation pattern but you will likely find that electrostats (martin logan), planar (maggies) and even some of the really excellent ribbon designs (Raidho) will be better at this than any cone and dome speaker I have heard.  

I own box 2-way speakers Mission Cyrus 781 and they never give me, before acoustic control and rightful  room treatment, a 3-D sound filling the room so much and so well not only the speakers disapear, but the room disapear also...

Then i feel an intimate proximity like in my 7 headphones to the sound unheard before my room tratment and ESPECIALLY my room controls after Helmoltz method...I put my headphones in a closet guess why?

ANY type of speakers can do this job , the most important factor will be the way you will succeed in controlling the room for the chosen  type of speakers...

 

ACOUSTIC CONTROL IS KEY NOT THE SPEAKERS TYPE CHOICES...

My best to you....

 

What I am talking about is that not only do the speakers disappear sitting in the sweet spot (for any music), but if I move a few feet in any direction , I still don’t hear the sound as originating from 2 boxes, just a wall (area?) of sound. Again just talking about disapearing (not localizing instruments)..

And if may be that those who have only heard typical box speakers have not experienced this (perhaps they wouldn’t like it). There is a reason omnis are popular (note though that Jay didn’t like the MBLs at recent show), The mirage bipoles (in phase front and rear drivers) were popular and I was surprised to find this in the LSA. box speakers(I assume because they are wide dispersion).

Not sure if Maggies, and open baffles have this quality or not.

There is a reason speakers other than low dispersion boxes are and will remain popular--changing sound radiating pattern (for better or worse-=your taste) is one thing unlike frequency response that only speakers (well and room treatments) can change.

And room treatments may ruin this--dunno.

 

Almost any speaker at any price when listening/speaker positions and room acoustics have been optimized.

@ishkabibil Thank you for your insightful and well thought out response. Very impressed with your effort and I think you should consider writing a book or starting a blog on the topic. 😘 

Ever played a Beatles song where George Martin pans hard right or left?

C'mon...now you know why I said no.

It mostly recording dependant.

Calling all high enders......

Try a Beatles song panned hard left or right...

Sit in the middle and post your report.....

For that fact any Beatles song.

@ishkabibil yeah I hear ya. I was in a weird mood this morning. Apologies for the sarcastic comments. It really is recording dependent. 

I would think a lot of this depends upon how things are set up and what is in the room.  Actually, there is a dealer here who specializes in Master Set.  They demonstrated this in their showroom.  You couldn't detect either left or right speaker.  

Peace  brother!

Keep on listening and enjoy.

The world is running backwards right now and everyone is a little stressed.

 

In my small room, I have only been able to experience a complete disappearing act with minis and subs. I tried large and small Magnepans, Infinity Rennaissance 90's, Klipsch Lascala. No dice. But my tiny Infinity Infinitesimal 1.0, or my Proac 1sc's and servo subs, disappear on most all music I play through them.

Kef LS50s do exactly that. I have two pairs now in "other" rooms.  My main system uses Canton floor sanders and have their own merits but the LS50s once positioned properly, absolutely do "disappear".  I proved this when I had my kids over testing some other speakers and they had no clue where the sound was coming from until I connected the "other" speakers.

@jasonbourne52

Agree 100% my current fave that turns my ProAcs into ninjas: Doug Macleod “Exactly Like this” (Reference Recordings) hi-rez on Qobuz. 😎

 

 

@ ishkabibil

Ever played a Beatles song where George Martin pans hard right or left?

A. Imaging i.e. locating instruments in space ain’t the same as

B.. speakers disappearing (does not require A)

The question is B and we’ve listed a number of speakers in this thread which one can go and listen to and experience B however people keep saying no A isn’t possible which isn’t the question or the same thing..  And if you don't know what I'm talking about--trying listening to one of the mentioned speakers for yourself and see  if I/we are correct or not.

 

Sorry to say but the question you post is ridiculous. They will not be a speaker that disappears for every recording.  The question is like asking is there a speaker that will have bass for every recording.   There are some speakers that are excellent are disappearing but speaker placement is especially important at achieving this.  I’ve also seen and heard many speakers that are not particularly known as disappearing speakers but when setup correctly, they did disappear very well.  I feel room treatment and speaker positioning and placement goes a super long way in getting any speaker to disappear. 

If you want disappearance in locations other than the sweet spot, then you’ll have to look to Omni…. Ohm Walsh… Omni or as you mention MBL… Maggie’s aren’t in this category. I have never been a Ohm fan… but my partner had a pair when we met, she liked the indirectness of them.

As others have said, with some recordings your speakers will never disappear, ever.  

Now I'm speaking of listening from one position, not roaming the room. That said, the better the use and implementation of the acoustical space the more apt one is to realize the 'speaker disappearing act' on more and more recordings. 

Although (like in all cases) you can find some wonderful inexpensive speakers that do quite well at disappearing sonically, I have found that generally, GENERALLY speaking, more expensive world class speakers can do better at going away sonically more often than their more value-conscious and lower costing brethren. And that's fine. I have cheaper speakers I love quite a bit as well.

Very good electronics also help with openness.