Are there speakers that disappear regardless of the recording?

I own box 2-way speakers Mission Cyrus 781 and they never give me, before acoustic control and rightful  room treatment, a 3-D sound filling the room so much and so well not only the speakers disapear, but the room disapear also...

Then i feel an intimate proximity like in my 7 headphones to the sound unheard before my room tratment and ESPECIALLY my room controls after Helmoltz method...I put my headphones in a closet guess why?

ANY type of speakers can do this job , the most important factor will be the way you will succeed in controlling the room for the chosen  type of speakers...

 

ACOUSTIC CONTROL IS KEY NOT THE SPEAKERS TYPE CHOICES...

My best to you....

 

What I am talking about is that not only do the speakers disappear sitting in the sweet spot (for any music), but if I move a few feet in any direction , I still don’t hear the sound as originating from 2 boxes, just a wall (area?) of sound. Again just talking about disapearing (not localizing instruments)..

And if may be that those who have only heard typical box speakers have not experienced this (perhaps they wouldn’t like it). There is a reason omnis are popular (note though that Jay didn’t like the MBLs at recent show), The mirage bipoles (in phase front and rear drivers) were popular and I was surprised to find this in the LSA. box speakers(I assume because they are wide dispersion).

Not sure if Maggies, and open baffles have this quality or not.

There is a reason speakers other than low dispersion boxes are and will remain popular--changing sound radiating pattern (for better or worse-=your taste) is one thing unlike frequency response that only speakers (well and room treatments) can change.

And room treatments may ruin this--dunno.

 

Except for very rare bad recording, they are always some acoustical cues in most recording related to the POTENTIAL imaging soundstage timbre and all others acoustic cues ready and waiting  to be translated for and in your room and this acoustic information is more or less well conveyed by your gear to the speakers/room for sure...The inequality of different gear for this conveying task is a common place fact...

The recording circle you alluded to, has for center : the ACOUSTIC room control...

NO one listen to the speakers alone in a small room...We listen to the speakers/room... Why ? Divide the speed of sound by the dimension of your room to know why and calculate the time your brain use to work this information between the distance of your 2 ears trelatively to the 2 speakers and the walls of reflected sound...

The initial recording of the lived musical event is a set of acoustic choices taken by the recording engineer , and they always are IMPERFECT, always a trade-off each one of them...

This recording, yes must be CONVEYED by the turntable/dac and amplifier to the speaker with more or less distortions and success, but at the end must be TRANSLATED from the initial residual or chosen  acoustical choices of the recording , TRANSLATED in the acoustical environment of your uncontrolled or controlled room...

My point is a controlled room give the best possible translation from the first recorded acoustic event to your room acoustic which is, if controlled, ADAPTED synergetically for your specific speakers and specific ears structure and history...

We always listen to the speakers/room relation NEVER to the speaker alone in a small room ...

This is acoustic and psycho-acoustic scientific fact...

Then repeating a common place fact the way you did it : "this must be in the recording first " erase the most important audio factor for an optimal perceived experience which is the  acoustic control of the relation between the speakers and the room...

A common place fact is not enough to understand the key fact here... Acoustic and psycho-acoustic...

😁😊

The presentation of solid imaging within a wide and deep soundstage has to be available in the recording.

Then it is about the room, room treatments, and best placement of the speakers within.

Then it is about the speakers inherent ability to present the available soundscape.

Then it is about the ability of equipment to present this to the speakers.

And now we are back to the recording.

Having too much fun over coffee:-).

 

 

I forgot to say that i dont listen pop music nor rock because i hate most of the time the SOUND from studio manipulations but often also i dont like the commercial music..Not so more musicians rival the Beatles or Bob Dylan in pop culture... 😁😊

I listen mainly to Classical, and jazz and music from Asian countries...India and persia especially...

I disconnected for ever my only sub after controlling my room.... My 7 inches driver do the job now with enough bass to be listen by my body but the wall dont vibrate no.......I listen tuba or piano very well  not explosions anyway....

My basic good but not high end speakers Mission Cyrus 781 never disapered when i installed them years ago in my non treated and non controlled room..

For sure disapearance of speakers is an experience related and coming from the way and good trade-off choices made by the recording engineer...

A mono recording will not sound stereo even in an acoustically controlled environment... 🤣For sure....

But there will be a big differences between a mono recording in a controlled room and in a non controlled one....The mono recording will MIMIC or SUGGEST a more 3-d sound like a sphere in the center and no more a dead surface between the 2 speakers...

And what means "speakers which disapear" for me?

They always disapear at some level and for some degree with all my stereo recordings, why and how?

The speakers disapear when the sound we listen to dont come from the speakers and the sound dont stay between the speakers like a dead body but fill the room, imaging is no more only in the direction back/front or left/right inside and outside the speakers locations, but also in some recording around the listener and in some recording behind my listening position, and sometimes for example voices directly beside my 2 ears like in an headphone and orchestra behind the speakers...

The same recording listened in another non controlled room will not give this experience...

Then it is ACOUSTIC treatment but especially acoustic mechanical control in a dedicated room that make this experience possible with basic box speakers...

All is in the recording?

Yes, but the TRANSLATION of the recording choices acoutical cues are only completely audible in a CONTROLLED room...The acoustic choices of the recording engineer cannot be translated completely in a non treated and non controlled room... Simple...

Knowing that by experience, it is the reason why i never boasted about my speakers or dac and amplifier to be the main cause and main reason of my deep imaging soundstage and listener envelopment experience with an intimate sound which feel like i had headphones with none of the inconvenience of my 7 headphones...

It is not my brand name specific gear, so good it is, the main cause and reason of my S.Q. wonderful experience all time, it is not even the difference in recordings which is big from one recording to another one, no, it is ACOUSTIC CONTROL of the room mechanically tuned with Helmhotlz method...

The main reason of the disapearance of speakers is to be understood by acoustic and psycho-acoustic science not by brand name gear marketing tacttic nor because someone boast about his specific speakers or gear in a review saying that it is the cause...

ANY BASIC relatively good gear can give a wonderful S.Q. experience modulo acoustic control in a dedicated room...

For sure my gear is LIMITED and cannot be transformed miraculously in high end gear by acoustic and cannot beat high end gear but i dont lag so much afar and behind high end experience as publicity and audio magazine want to make us believe ... 😁😊

On the opposite i dont want to upgrade at all because my ratio S.Q. /price is over the roof...Upgrading really will cost me 15,000 bucks versus my 500 buck system now... For only a clearer sound and a better dynamic and a better timbre, but not so much better because i can enjoy music without any frustration at all NOW compared to anything i ever listen to in all my life...

Audio experience is acoustic experience ....First and last.....

By the way all my albums sound interesting now even the worst recording.... Why? Because now i can HEAR all the trade-off choices of the recording engineer in my room and it makes all albums interesting.... Calling them "bad" make no more sense, they are not so well recorded for sure but they are interesting acoustically and musically for their own sake now...

And i dont listen to my 7 headphones now because they cannot beat my 500 bucks audio system in my controlled room , not even for the intimacy aspect...My room give an intimacy experience like my headphones were giving me in the past...But the sound is not IN MY HEAD now but around me and near me...

And anyway no headphone has a dynamic and a bass so natural to beat my modest speakers now....

Acoustic is the key not some chosen well recorded album...I dont pick album for their sound recording quality now... It speaks volume about acoustic control...

When someone enjoy only some recording album because it is a way better album than the others he own, it is a sign and a clue about the acoustic limitations of his room and this manifest in the fact that he cannot enjoy many albums which has acoustic cues from their recording characteristiuc more difficult to manifest in a non treated and non controlled room...Then he pick the best album to enjoy a good sound...All my albums present something interesting, i never chose an album now for the sound ONLY FOR THE MUSIC...

In a word i want to be clear: Acoustic control dont make "bad" recording good one but make them interesting ANYWAY...Acoustic control dont transform my basic gear in high end one at all, but put them no so far behind... THAT IS THE POINT...

Dont upgrade ever BEFORE embedding rightfully what you already own....

 

 

By the way the speakers disapear ONLY when your room disapear...Read it twice and think about it twice...Or the speakers disapear when the room and the speakers are INTEGRATED synergetically by Helmholtz method...

 

«If there is no speakers and no room where is the music? »-Acoustical Koan