I made the claim that SR and others claim to do double blind tests but none of them to my knowledge had done a properly administered double blind test in public, i.e. one where the process and results could be verified and validated by others. SR I am quite sure never has. Ted (due to his public persona) has been challenged to do it many times. He has never followed through.
Are manufacturer AC cables good enough?
I have two PS Audio AC3 and two Pangea AC 14 cables I don't use. My thinking is that Ayre wouldn't supply cables that are inadequate for their components. Is that thinking flawed?
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This should be obvious but I am claiming something does not exist. The only way to prove me wrong is to prove that the opposite is true, i.e. provide proof that a public double blind test has occurred. It has not but feel free to prove me wrong. rodman999994,357 posts05-16-2020 8:12am@heaudio- So; you, "call them out" with ZERO verification/validation, of your statements (iow, "TRUST ME")? |
cd318889 posts05-15-2020 9:27am"....Take a look at what Gene at the excellent Audioholics site has to say on the matter." https://youtu.be/7YIGLnbc12I There seems to be an ongoing battle between Gene (Audioholics) and Ted Denney (SR).... https://www.audioholics.com/editorials/synergistic-research?fbclid=IwAR2fIIJHcGsI_BCjBIaZ6BMW8h617dGlqzbIfStl4ZPLNPmR7bMRmtr6N04 |
boxer124,625 posts05-15-2020 8:06pm"turnbowm, heaudio, Please list the aftermarket power cords you have compared to stock power cords?" Have tried Audioquest and Pangea power cords of various flavors on my Bryston B60R Integrated and it doesn't seem to care what I feed it with. Bryston amps have robust power supplies which, reportedly, makes them less sensitive to power delivery issues. |
SR/ Danny has never done a public double blind test. Not at a trade show and not at his factory. I only call them out because they makes claims of doing it (like WW), but always "shy" away from anything public ... I.e. something that would prove the claim. No other vendors do double blind public tests either ... But they don’t claim to do them private or public and many offer guarantees as well. |
"Modified Swiss-made DC bias Power Supply"https://www.synergisticresearch.com/cables/srx/ https://www.google.com/maps/place/Swiss-California+Foundation/@38.4402977,-122.7455841,6z/data=!4m8!... |
"...with great success. ie: https://www.synergisticresearch.com/best-of-show-awards-2015-all-major-shows/" “Best of Show” Awards 2015 @ All Major ShowsDid they win "Best of show" award at RMAF 2015, too? |
"Please list the aftermarket power cords you have compared to stock power cords?"I have compared a few stock power cords that came with different pieces of equipment. Some thinner, some thicker. I report that I could not discern any difference in sound. If power cords matter in terms of sound, are all the stock ones clones that sound equally good (or bad, if you are a proponent of more expensive products)? Instead of advertising expensive power cords, why not compare stock ones and report how they sound? It may be helpful to those on the budget. |
"Synergistic Research also claims to do exhaustive double blind testing, but again, never publishes anything, nor allows independent verification." Excuse me? Synergistic offers a 30 day satisfaction guarantee, on virtually everything it sells. That should be sufficient time, for even the most obtuse, to discern whether a component change results in an audible difference, in their own system. Ever been to an electronics trade show? Mr Denney goes to lots of them, around the globe, at which he demos his wares, openly, proudly and with great success. ie: https://www.synergisticresearch.com/best-of-show-awards-2015-all-major-shows/ |
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Which Wireworld, the one that claims lots of double-blind testing, even though they makes lots of excuses for it, but to my knowledge has never published actual testing and/or had fully independent listeners participate in the test and allowed the results to be published? That Wireworld? Or would it be the Wireworld that erroneously uses the fact that humans can perceive ear-to-ear timing differences as justification that fast speed in cables is important, even though the two are completely unrelated? Perhaps it would be the wireworld that claims that the small phase-shift at high frequencies with "some" cables causes things to sound "bright" due to prolonging the sound, even though phase-shift in speakers is in general way worse than any cable. Or, is it the Wireworld that claims triboelectric effects are an issue, though it is easily shown through calculation, measurement or experiment, that with the typical source/load impedance in audio, that triboelectric effects are meaningless? .... Which particular one? Synergistic Research also claims to do exhaustive double blind testing, but again, never publishes anything, nor allows independent verification. |
turnbowm
I don't expect hobbyists to be conducting scientific tests but think it's NOT unreasonable for PC manufacturers to publish test results supporting their claims. Is that too much to ask?There are companies such as Wireworld that have conducted blind tests - WW even developed its own comparator so you can listen blind to your heart's content, and then decide for yourself. Is that too much to ask? |
cleeds2,958 posts05-15-2020 10:44am"It's true that even abundant empirical evidence is not by itself proof. But this is a hobbyist's group, so this wouldn't be the place to expect participants to be conducting the kind of scientific testing you probably prefer. Regardless, it's simply false to claim that "there is no evidence." There's tons of it. If it doesn't suit you, you're free to go collect your own. If you do, please share the results with us." I don't expect hobbyists to be conducting scientific tests but think it's NOT unreasonable for PC manufacturers to publish test results supporting their claims. Is that too much to ask? |
Well said! Totally agree. And for the naysayers, I seriously doubt they actually own any audio equipment. They just like to pollute the audio forums for some strange reason. Maybe because THAT is their hobby? Often a good indicator is their Audiogon feedback history: more often than not, zero transactions. They buy nothing. See those two guys above today. Zero transactions here. And don't tell me they only buy brand new from dealer (LOL!!!) |
A, "THEORY" has never proven anything, either. That's ALL the, "evidence" naysayers have ever offered, in their, "scientific" pontifications. No one will ever know, whether a component change (whatever the component) makes a change, in their system/to their ears, without actually trying it, which (whether your ilk recognizes it or not), constitutes an experiment. |
LOL!!!! |
turnbowm Sorry, but anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything.It's true that even abundant empirical evidence is not by itself proof. But this is a hobbyist's group, so this wouldn't be the place to expect participants to be conducting the kind of scientific testing you probably prefer. Regardless, it's simply false to claim that "there is no evidence." There's tons of it. If it doesn't suit you, you're free to go collect your own. If you do, please share the results with us. |
cleeds2,957 posts05-15-2020 9:48am"....There is abundant evidence that "expensive power cables" can make a difference - a virtual mountain of it! There are countless testimonials in print, online and in real life from users that have first-hand experience. Indeed, premium power cables are a distinct niche within the audio and audio cable industries...." Sorry, but anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything. |
cd318 Since there is no evidence, none at all, (not a sausage, not even the smell of pork - plenty of snake oil aroma if you like) that expensive power cables do anything that the manufacturer supplier ones can’t, it’s time to ...There is abundant evidence that "expensive power cables" can make a difference - a virtual mountain of it! There are countless testimonials in print, online and in real life from users that have first-hand experience. Indeed, premium power cables are a distinct niche within the audio and audio cable industries. Of course, much of the abundant evidence isn’t the kind of evidence you seem to prefer, which is fine. But to pretend that "there is no evidence" is really disingenuous. |
Since there is no evidence, none at all, (not a sausage, not even the smell of pork - plenty of snake oil aroma if you like) that expensive power cables do anything that the manufacturer supplier ones can’t, it’s time to bring out the Hitchens Razor. “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” – Christopher Hitchens. Take a look at what Gene at the excellent Audioholics site has to say on the matter. https://youtu.be/7YIGLnbc12I |
When a builder stakes his reputation on his design, he will use a good cable. When a product is subcontracted out, NO! Jame Bongiorno, of GAS/Ampzilla fame, was supposed to be a great designer, but compared to similar Julius Siksnius designed and built Audire equipment, it was junk. The difference: James had his stuff made by bidders; Julius built his own factory.. |
This is not what double insulated means. Double insulated means that no single failure point can result in dangerous voltages (with or without equipment grounding). That could be two layers of insulation or reinforced insulation. The ground connection can also be a critical part of an EMI reduction strategy. "Double-insulated" simply means anything the user would be likely to touch is made of non-conductive material. In 120V code-compliant electrical systems, the neutral conductor is also connected to ground, and thus, to the circuit breaker. |
nsgarch:No, disconnecting the ground conductor at the EQUIPMENT end, as I specified, does NOT create a safety hazard. However, disconnecting the ground conductor at the wall outlet end does indeed create a safety hazard! A bit of research into equipment grounding techniques will explain why" You are confused, uninformed, and ignorant regarding the nature of electricity, electrical circuits and grounding the defeat of any safety ground most positively, absolutely, and definitely without exception creates a possible, potential, "looming" safety hazard the result, consequence, and outcome of which can be deadly. I suggest you consult your Boy Scout handbook and look up definitions for "open circuit" and "closed circuit" and then report back. |
FWIW, the Marantz CD6006 CD Player is a good example of double-insulated equipment. As shown (link below), the IEC socket does NOT have a ground pin and the double-insulated logo (square within a square) is displayed in the Marantz box near the middle of the pic. https://www.us.marantz.com/en-US/shop/hificomponents/cd6006#gallery-3 |
(Hey, that’s the way it goes sometimes) South Korean officials, who recently began to loosen social distancing requirements, ordered more than 2,100 nightclubs, discos and bars in Seoul to close Saturday after the country recorded dozens of new cases linked to partygoers in the city last weekend. In Germany, where the government has outlined a cautious but steady opening, hundreds of workers in at least three meat-processing plants have tested positive for the coronavirus, medical and local officials said. Word of the new infections came as Chancellor Angela Merkel, speaking in her weekly video message to the nation, said that “we are excited to take the first steps towards normal, everyday life.” |
geoffkait,
I am well-acquainted with a number of places and I do own a decent-sized collection of Lichtenstein stamps. I have been to Lichtenstein once, last summer, and ran into Beach Volleyball World Tournament played in the pouring rain. Maybe not World Tournament, but something similar to that. Surrounded by the Alps, the nearest beach was a few days riding a good horse away. By the way, Sweden and Lichtenstein are not close. How are kids doing these days? Any news from Detroit? Stay inside, it is not over yet. |
In the Washington DC area the curves actually don’t look all that good. Apparently the White House is under quarantine. https://wtop.com/local/2020/05/coronavirus-test-results-in-dc-maryland-and-virginia/ |