Aqua 'La Diva' ($9k) or Gryphon 'Ethos' ($39k) versus. Pro-Ject CD Box RS2 T ($3k)?
What sensible rationale is there for buying either of the two above-mentioned VERY COSTLY CD spinners (Aqua ’La Diva,’ a CD-only transport, and the Gryphon ’Ethos,’ a CD player with built-in DAC) when we can get the same pure Red-Book CD digital output from the Pro-Ject CD Box RS2 T for FAR less money?
What is a potential buyer getting for their significantly increased expenditure other than fancy packaging and possibly a boost to their egos from ownership of a prestige brand-name item? The one component (and a crucially-significant one at that) which all three of these products have in common is the new Philips-basedStream Unlimited CD Pro 8 CDplayer mechanism. Aside than that, what one appears to get with the two far-higher-priced components is little more than pure window-dressing, not substantive gains in performance over the CD Box RS2 T.
It is little wonder that one reviewer of the RS2 T thinks of it as nothing less than a "giant killer," in that it makes it nearly impossible for any level-headed purchaser, even one with the means to spend lavishly, to rationalize spending thousands of dollars more on these two competing products (or on others like them) when one can get the same sonic results (which from most reports are splendid) from the humble little CD Box.
Any thoughts? Do we audiophiles finally have good reason to come to our buying senses? To me, Pro-Ject Audio Systems may have struck a true winning vein with their CD Box when prospecting for gold.
I returned to this thread this morning and what in the world has happened in the interim? I was looking forward to further insightful discussion about the implementation of the excellent Stream Unlimited CD Pro-8 drive into various CD transports. What ever I missed last night on this thread, well, glad I wasn't around.
If the original topic ever resurfaces my take is the Pro-ject RS2T sounds stunningly good based on my listening to it. I'm very interested to know how the very attractive Aqua Hifi La Diva 2 CD transport extends the sonic performance beyond the RS2T. I'm making the assumption that it does.
My impression is these are both excellent choices at their respective price points. I'd love the opportunity to hear them side by side into the same DAC, would be fun and informative.
@erictal4075 I have the Pro-Ject CD Box RS2 T feeding via AES/EBU a Holo Audio ’MAY’ KTE version DAC
I think that’s a pretty good start in my modest opinion. This is on my wish list for later this year.
The ability to mix and match at this level is important. Others may prefer/consider say a Denafrips Venus or Terminator, whatever. As am I - its a process, no hurry.
I find no compelling reason to even think about a new high end SOTA [not to be confused with the retail requirements of many people who desire something modest] CD player. None.
I haven’t even looked, but I would guess that they nevertheless have delta sigma (or sigma delta, depending on who you are talking to) technology. A very good (SOTA) delta sigma DAC can be had for less than $1,000. So.
No jerry, I don't, and I think the mods need to look into this, which they will.
Why did you openly post private PMs when you could have notified the mods?
Is it me or is this getting outta hand and is it what it seems?
The complete run of PMs are kept in the system. The mods can view the entire conversation and not just selected ones.
Another argument to not starting New Years celebrations early.
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It is distressing to me to see this thread, which I as its initiator intended to be a robust and honest debate over price-for-value considerations in three CD transports (ok, the GRYPHON is technically a PLAYER because it has an in-built DAC), But, unintentionally, this discussion has, for reasons indecipherable to me, devolved into an anti-semitic rant.
Such is life on the Internet, which is open to ALL comers, including those who are very easily derailed by the slightest pebble left on the railway tracks, which causes them to veer off the rails into discussions totally unrelated to the subject at hand (do as the Swiss Albula Railway does - put your heavy locomotives at the FRONT of your trains whenever there is a heavy snowfall along your railway’s routes: ★ 4K 🇨🇭Samedan - Albulabahn - Chur; cab ride after over 1 meter snowfall [12.2020 - YouTube )! It is filmed in 2160p 4k.
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This is after i called this clown out as ant Anti Semite for making Gas Chamber Comments:
New Message
From: thyname (Skerdi Kostreci)
Jan 1, 2022 2:00am
Here is my real name and persona. You have no clue dude. This is coming. Come 2024. Be ready. We all have to do something about this. Before it’s too late. I hate to say this. But it’s coming. It’s all up to you and being complacent. Sorry for being blunt. It’s the truth.
Go ahead and call me disgusting. It’s fine. I am telling you what it is. I know. Peace. We will need it
I can see why someone would decry the price of the Gryphon but as for the Aqua, I've seen people spend more on Esoteric, Ayon and other brands with may have great CD sleds but operate on older disc reading tech.
That, and the previous generation CDT from Aqua looks similar but used older Philips tech and still went for not much less (most likely some licensing increased the price), so it still can be seen as reasonable.
Factor in the standard size, no operational quirks and the track record of the company, and it makes it all the more reasonable to those with greater resources who wouldn't bat an eye at the cost.
Inequality will always be with us. Even societies that attempted to force equality at the point of a gun had elites. At some point you have to look at the stuff that you have, ask if it makes you happy, and if the answer is yes, stop giving a rats a** about what your neighbor might have
I’m in agreement with this perspective 100%. I’ll disagree with your assessment of @erictal4075 I don’t sense envy or frustration. He just seems incredulous and very curious as to what is responsible for the huge price discrepancy.
Relative to automobiles, CD transports are simple and straightforward. Spin the CD and read it with as much precision as possible. So a narrow focused approach is very doable and advantageous. Manufacturers aiming to build premium tier CD transports settled upon the CD Pro-8 drive. Fortunately so did Pro-Ject. A very major piece of the puzzle is accounted for.
What significant and essential major parts do Porsche and Volkswagen share in the same manner? I don’t believe that they do. I listed several areas where I suspect there are improvements made in the expensive level transports compared to Pro-Ject. How much does this impact sound quality I can’t say, but surely some.
As written earlier I’m just ecstatic that great CD playback technology is available at again an obtainable price. What ever Aqua Hifi, Accustic Arts and Gryphon have added beyond Pro-Ject I say more power to their efforts 👍I think it's all Good!😃
Charles dad criticized the Porsche-VW analogy as old, but that doesn’t make it less valid. Both vehicles have the essentials required to get a passenger from Point A to Point B—4 tires, internal combustion engine, battery, brakes, etc. Just because all 3 transports have the same disc tray doesn’t make them all equivalent. They probably differ significantly in the other areas.
To be clear, my sentiments are with the OP. I’m not cashing a few IRAs to spend $40K to hear the slight improvement that such an expenditure might obtain. However, it isn’t hard to detect the envy in his post. He seems offended that (admittedly ridiculously priced) gear exists, that there are people who can afford it, and I also sense a bit of frustration that as good as his system is and as reasonable as his suspicions are about the price to performance ratio of the stratospherically priced gear, he will probably never really be able to verify his well founded suspicions that the higher priced stuff is not money well spent.
I am glad that my system is so much better than I ever would have imagined it could be. Hell, even my 2 mid Fi systems are worlds better than what I could have imagined owning 40 years ago.
Another old argument that rings true is that the mega bucks spenders allow for the development of technology that ultimately trickles downstream. Let those early adopters pay the R&D costs.
Inequality will always be with us. Even societies that attempted to force equality at the point of a gun had elites. At some point you have to look at the stuff that you have, ask if it makes you happy, and if the answer is yes, stop giving a rats a** about what your neighbor might have
I feel that you and I just want fellow Audiogon members (Who still enjoy Redbook CD playback) to be aware of this affordable and "marvelous sounding" transport. True High End audio performance and refreshingly obtainable (Which is not always the case) is worth celebrating !😊
I will not be overly surprised to see China’s Jay’s Audio, sooner rather than later, come ’round to the realization that, as word of the Pro-Ject CD Box RS2 T spreads ever wider, they will have to relent from their current stance and start building their CDT2-MK3 (or its as-yet unnamed successor) around the latest and greatest top-loading transport mechanism used in the CD Box and elsewhere.
If Jay’s Audio continues on its present course, my guess is they will soon find themselves left far behind in the sales dust as customers in the know no longer will voluntarily settle for their beautifully-made CD transport, but one unfortunately handicapped by its technologically obsolete and no-longer-manufacturedtop-loading CD mechanism. This outcome is all the more likely because the Jay’s in its present form is priced so closely with the CD Box RS2 - and also because nearly everyone agrees that its sound is no match to the CD Box’s.
Seriously? What is the point of buying a Porsche when you could buy a Volkswagen.
A worn out cliche and stale default analogy. The transports under discussion share the essential and functioning guts that’s fundamental to excellent Redbook CD playback. The actual drive mechanism and servo control card, namely Stream Unlimited CD Pro-8 drive and Blue Tiger -84 servo. Acustic Arts has also chosen this dive unit for their flagship (18K) CD transport
Despite the wide variance in price point, the same drive mechanism was selected and for good reason, it’s the latest technology top loader unit available. I don’t know of an instance where a complete Porsche drivetrain is used in a Volkswagen (Correct me if I’m mistaken). I cannot say that these transports sound the same . Certainty there could be additional efforts toward fine tuning and tweaking with the expensive level transports/players.
There could be more extensive attention paid to isolation and vibration/resonance management etc. A higher level of aesthetic appeal and beauty. The CD Pro-8 drive seems to be the distinguishing feature that contributes greatly to the sound quality. No coincidence that these companies specifically chose this mechanism unit to build around.
I’d have to believe that for the very substantial cost increase these transports could very well surpass the Pro-ject RS2T in performance (You would think). That does not however diminish the significant achievement of the modestly priced (Relatively speaking) Pro-Ject, it is "superb" sounding and I mean superb. The reviews and forum testimonials from many are right on the mark (And they continue to grow in number).
Their decision to go with the truly excellent CD Pro-8 and place it in a CD transport with a price accessible to many music lovers is admirable and deeply appreciated.
Most of these high priced brands are catering to a different clientele than your average audio buyer. If you buy their DAC maybe the matching transport is a easy add on. Is the quality and sound better? It's only money and some have more than others.
Seriously? What is the point of buying a Porsche when you could buy a Volkswagen. If you are looking for transportation there is no substantive difference. If you are looking for the experience of responsive and elegant machine to experience moving from one place to another, another thing.
Answering yours first, jperry, I have the Pro-Ject CD Box RS2 T feeding via AES/EBU a Holo Audio 'MAY' KTE version DAC, connected to a Holo Audio 'Serene'KTE version preamp driving a pair of ATCself-powered 3-way studio monitor loudspeakers. I listen as well using an ifi iCAN headphone amp, fed from the MAY DAC, powering Meze Audio's Empyrean ELITE headphones, so I'm able to hear very well what this little CD transport can do. I have not heard either one of the two far-more-expensive alternatives, and I am curious as to why they are so much higher-priced than the CD Box.
In response to your equally good question, thyname, I am making a statement about how absurd I find the differential in price among these three CD players to be while at the same time asking if anyone else on this forum has any deeper knowledge of or experience with either of the two higher-priced components, who could shed light on their performance and possible reasons why they might recommend one or the other over the Pro-Ject despite their far higher cost.
Probably more like splitting hairs. There are so many variables in each person's set up that most perceived differences could be caused by room acoustics, power delivery etc,....and each person's own hearing variability that changes on a daily basis. If you find a component that sounds great, reaching for that next 2-5% can be extremely expensive. My advise is to just consume more music!!!🎼🎵🎶
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