I do completely understand that individuals have their specific needs and programmability is a requirement for tommylion, no problem. I believe that Pro -Ject has probably concluded that it is a very low demand requested or utilized feature.
Charles
Aqua 'La Diva' ($9k) or Gryphon 'Ethos' ($39k) versus. Pro-Ject CD Box RS2 T ($3k)?
What sensible rationale is there for buying either of the two above-mentioned VERY COSTLY CD spinners (Aqua ’La Diva,’ a CD-only transport, and the Gryphon ’Ethos,’ a CD player with built-in DAC) when we can get the same pure Red-Book CD digital output from the Pro-Ject CD Box RS2 T for FAR less money?
What is a potential buyer getting for their significantly increased expenditure other than fancy packaging and possibly a boost to their egos from ownership of a prestige brand-name item? The one component (and a crucially-significant one at that) which all three of these products have in common is the new Philips-based Stream Unlimited CD Pro 8 CD player mechanism. Aside than that, what one appears to get with the two far-higher-priced components is little more than pure window-dressing, not substantive gains in performance over the CD Box RS2 T.
It is little wonder that one reviewer of the RS2 T thinks of it as nothing less than a "giant killer," in that it makes it nearly impossible for any level-headed purchaser, even one with the means to spend lavishly, to rationalize spending thousands of dollars more on these two competing products (or on others like them) when one can get the same sonic results (which from most reports are splendid) from the humble little CD Box.
Any thoughts? Do we audiophiles finally have good reason to come to our buying senses? To me, Pro-Ject Audio Systems may have struck a true winning vein with their CD Box when prospecting for gold.
Showing 28 responses by charles1dad
The Pro-Ject transport is marvelously good!!! The lack of CD track programmability is simply a non factor (For me). @tommylion I'd give a serious look at P.S.Audio CD/SACD transport or the Jay's Audio CDT MK III as excellent sounding alternatives. If you want the CD Pro-8/Blue Tiger servo mechanism, it's also available with the Aqua Hifi La Diva M2 transport. Charles |
Thanks for taking the time to report your early listening impressions with the Linear Tube Audio (LTA) power supply. You and I are using different brands of LPS but getting very similar positive results. This of course reinforces the significance of using high quality power for audio components. Every sonic parameter improves from A to Z. Both of us were highly impressed with the Pro-Ject RS2 transport powered by the stock wall wart SMPS. This excellent transport is pushed to a higher tier of sound quality when used with a high quality linear power supply. Charles |
I obviously don’t know for sure but this is a very plausible explanation. Charles |
I’m just past the 100 hour burn-in point with the Fidelizer Nikola 2 LPS. It is obviously evolving and continuing to improve its sound quality. Take what I wrote in my last post (50 hours) and honestly add an additional 10% improvement. As impressively good the Pro-Ject is with its supplied SMPS wall wart, the high quality LPS is simply the superior choice. That is saying a lot but is the unadulterated truth. Given the progression I am hearing, I unequivocally recommend obtaining a good LPS. I wouldn’t try to go cheap here. Power supply quality is too important and vital to acquiring good sound. It will advance the Pro-Ject RS2 transport to its fullest sonic potential. The manufacturer told me 200 hours to achieve complete burn-in of this LPS, so I’m halfway there. How much more is there to gain? I’ll find out. This Pro-Ject with LPS is a tremendous package. Truly stunningly good sound quality. An exceptional audio value if there ever was one. Charles |
I've have about 50 hours on my Fidelizer Nikola 2 LPS (Manufacturer said 200 hours for complete burn-in). Directly out of the shipping box with the initial listening exposure a few things were apparent within the first few hours and have gotten gradually better. In my opinion the Pro-Ject RS2 transport sounds excellent with the standard wall wart power supply. If someone decided to stop there they'd have a top level performing CD transport. With the use of the Nickola 2 LPS there is not a "night and day" difference. It did not cause the wall wart powered Pro-Ject to sound broken. There are clearly noticeable improvements that elevate the sound quality from an already high standard. 1 The sound presentation opens up and the 3-dimensional aspect is heightened. 2 You are aware of distinct spacing and separation between the musicians. 3 Dynamic contrast is improved particularly lower level or micro dynamics, the overall sound is more nuanced. The subtle and small details are more apparent. 4 What's already excellent resolving ability is taken further. 5 The very good organic nature of the transport becomes more organic and the musical flow is just impressively natural. The antithesis of mechanical/electronic/canned. 6 The Pro-Ject straight out of the box with the wall wart has beautiful natural tonality of instruments and human voice. This my top sonic priority. I was actually surprised that this was improved. Wonderful fleshed out harmonically rich and fully expressed tone and timbre. Increased instrument reverberation and a very tactile/palpable presentation. This is what I hear specifically with the Fidelizer Nikola 2 LPS. I suspect that other high quality LPS would do similar things. The Pro-Ject CD BOX RS2 transport with a very good LPS similar to mine paired with a high DAC is going to provide "superb " Redbook CD playback sound quality. Charles |
I believe that those are the primary issues with i2s. There are 4 different (Possibly more) iterations in use and the intent seems to be, use with a sibling -companion product. Good quality S/PDIF input/outputs and cable are proven capable of providing superb CD playback sound quality. Charles |
Be optimistic. The 2 transport comparison review a few days ago by @theburbster1 confirms the stellar performance of the affordable Pro-Ject transport and its high value proposition. All he described was with the wall wart to boot. I just got a LPS for my Pro-Ject and good Lord! It even better!!! Don't despair. Or were you just referring primarily to the aesthetic appeal? Charles |
Yes, my assessment as well. I'm just happy to let others know that the Pro-Ject RS2T is simply excellent on sonic grounds and affordable for many. Charles |
Thanks. The comparison between the two vehicles you test drove weren't nearly as close as the two transport comparison mentioned above. Lucky for us music lovers. 😊 @erictal4075 a friend of mine recently purchased the MSB Select II, a 3 chassis (2 power supplies) DAC that retails for 100K and he is very happy with it and I'm happy for him. We all find the market niche that suits our desires and comfort zone . Charles |
Hi @disc I do not see how the Gryphon ETHOS CD player fits in this thread (As was pointed out earlier in this thread. Different type of prroduct and market segment ). Rather, I was referencing the insightful comparison of the Pro-Ject and Aqua La Diva M2 that @thebursrer1 was kind enough to share on this thread a few days ago. Charles |
Hi I'll post my listening impressions of wall wart power versus LPS differences (Or lack of) via the Pro-Ject CD Box RS2T. Charles |
Hi, Fidelizer Nikola 2 is just a direct plug in LPS to use into the RS2T in place of the supplied wall wart. No different than if I used Pro-Ject's own optional LPS in place of their wall wart. Virtually everyone who's tried a LPS with the RS2T says the sound quality takes a step upward. I will soon find out. Charles |
The Gryphon Ethos is a complete CD player. What would be another interesting comparison is the Aqua La Diva M2 and the Accustic Arts Drive II. This is a dedicated CD transport that incorporates the CD Pro-8 drive unit and retails for 18K USD. What might it offer above and beyond the La Diva M2? Aesthetically it's very attractive and elegant. Charles |
This is exactly what is of value, a "direct" comparison between the Pro-Ject RS2 and the Aqua Hifi La Diva M2 in the same audio system. And granted even then it’s one listener’s opinion but that’s okay. We know by its very nature it can only be subjective. This However is still more meaningful than comments and strong opinions from those who’ve heard neither or certainty did not hear them directly. In your assessment you used the term slightly several times when describing the difference between the two CD transports. This narrow gap does not surprise me. I believe the Stream Unlimited CD Pro-8 drive and Blue Tiger servo control card shared by both transports is the dominant factor responsible for the superb sound quality of both. I can see the Aqua La Diva M2 being "slightly " (As you put it) better due to additional fine tuning. What is quite telling is your RS2T was compared utilizing the stock SMPS wall wart. And yet results were very close. What happens when you instead use a linear power supply (LPS) which the Aqua utilizes internally? Both exceeded your CEC CD transport (Other listeners on this forum have reported the same). It seems very apparent to me that this latest Stream Unlimited CD technology has undoubtedly elevated the performance bar. @theburbster1 , same as you I’m highly impressed with the sonic performance of the RS2T. It has surpassed my high expectations. All of this with the tiny (Humble) wall wart supply. My Fidelizer Nikola 2 LPS will be shipped to me soon, I’m very curious to discover where things go from there. Thanks again for taking the time to post your insightful listening experiences with two wonderful CD transports. Charles |
I'll differ with you on one point. I don't feel that the Gryphon ETHOS CD player is ridiculously priced. It is targeted for those shopping in a very specific and exclusive segment. Everyone is free to determine their discretionary spending budget. My interest and focus is toward the common ground utilization of the newest tech, the Stream Unlimited CD Pro-8 drive. There are currently 3 brands that have selected for their dedicated CD transports. Accustic Arts Drive II. 18K Aqua Hifi La Diva M2. 9K Pro-Ject CD BOX RS2T.3K My singular curiosity is what are the two higher cost transports doing with the excellent CD drive unit above and beyond Pro-Ject' s implementation, and if and how does it impact the sound quality and to what extent? Just pure interest,. The Pro-Ject transport comes with a wall wart power supply and sounds terrific. An optional LPS is available which is said to improve the sound quality. The Accustic Arts and Aqua Hifi transports have LPS as standard. Both are noticeably larger, heavier and in my opinion more visually appealing/attractive compared to the diminutive and understated Pro-Ject. Further curiosity is how do the Accustic Arts and Aqua Hifi differ between each other? I'm awaiting a Fidelizer Nikola 2 LPS and will see what I hear with it compared to the SMPS wall wart. Charles |
That is precisely the point of this type of discussion. The impact a high quality transport contributes when paired to a high quality DAC (Same point can be made for the impact of High quality music servers). I don’t accept the premise that it is merely "all" about the DAC as some believe. What’s feeding the signal to the DAC has a vital role. "Bits are bits" sounds cute but there is so much more to the process that really matters and influences the ultimate sound quality of this digital signal chain. Transports and servers are crucial partners and their level of quality matters. Charles
|
My goodness! I returned to this thread this morning and what in the world has happened in the interim? I was looking forward to further insightful discussion about the implementation of the excellent Stream Unlimited CD Pro-8 drive into various CD transports. What ever I missed last night on this thread, well, glad I wasn't around. If the original topic ever resurfaces my take is the Pro-ject RS2T sounds stunningly good based on my listening to it. I'm very interested to know how the very attractive Aqua Hifi La Diva 2 CD transport extends the sonic performance beyond the RS2T. I'm making the assumption that it does. My impression is these are both excellent choices at their respective price points. I'd love the opportunity to hear them side by side into the same DAC, would be fun and informative. Charles |
I’m in agreement with this perspective 100%. I’ll disagree with your assessment of @erictal4075 I don’t sense envy or frustration. He just seems incredulous and very curious as to what is responsible for the huge price discrepancy. Relative to automobiles, CD transports are simple and straightforward. Spin the CD and read it with as much precision as possible. So a narrow focused approach is very doable and advantageous. Manufacturers aiming to build premium tier CD transports settled upon the CD Pro-8 drive. Fortunately so did Pro-Ject. A very major piece of the puzzle is accounted for. What significant and essential major parts do Porsche and Volkswagen share in the same manner? I don’t believe that they do. I listed several areas where I suspect there are improvements made in the expensive level transports compared to Pro-Ject. How much does this impact sound quality I can’t say, but surely some. As written earlier I’m just ecstatic that great CD playback technology is available at again an obtainable price. What ever Aqua Hifi, Accustic Arts and Gryphon have added beyond Pro-Ject I say more power to their efforts 👍I think it's all Good!😃 Charles
|
A worn out cliche and stale default analogy. The transports under discussion share the essential and functioning guts that’s fundamental to excellent Redbook CD playback. The actual drive mechanism and servo control card, namely Stream Unlimited CD Pro-8 drive and Blue Tiger -84 servo. Acustic Arts has also chosen this dive unit for their flagship (18K) CD transport Despite the wide variance in price point, the same drive mechanism was selected and for good reason, it’s the latest technology top loader unit available. I don’t know of an instance where a complete Porsche drivetrain is used in a Volkswagen (Correct me if I’m mistaken). I cannot say that these transports sound the same . Certainty there could be additional efforts toward fine tuning and tweaking with the expensive level transports/players.
There could be more extensive attention paid to isolation and vibration/resonance management etc. A higher level of aesthetic appeal and beauty. The CD Pro-8 drive seems to be the distinguishing feature that contributes greatly to the sound quality. No coincidence that these companies specifically chose this mechanism unit to build around. I’d have to believe that for the very substantial cost increase these transports could very well surpass the Pro-ject RS2T in performance (You would think). That does not however diminish the significant achievement of the modestly priced (Relatively speaking) Pro-Ject, it is "superb" sounding and I mean superb. The reviews and forum testimonials from many are right on the mark (And they continue to grow in number).
Their decision to go with the truly excellent CD Pro-8 and place it in a CD transport with a price accessible to many music lovers is admirable and deeply appreciated. Charles |