Anyone else feel like it’s the Wild Wild West?

My journey in digital music playback without using physical media (i.e., servers, streamers, and digital conversion) has consistently become ergonomically easier to implement as well as better sounding. Every new DAC and every music server upgrade has been a notable sonic improvement over the previous. As mentioned by @sbank , improvements have been achieved by reducing jitter and noise; primarily through improvements in processing, power supplies, and isolation. The sonic improvements have consistently moved toward a more natural sounding presentation, improved dynamic impact, and better resolution without an accompanying hard edge.

Considering that I have consistently provided a baseline of stable, damped support, clean power, and adequately constructed digital cables, the notable sonic improvements have all resulted from upgrading to better equipment (servers and DACs). None of the add-on tweaks, filters, etc. that I have tried have made what I could reliably call a consistent sonic improvement, especially compared to the improvements resulting from upgrading my digital playback equipment. I appreciate the dedicated manufacturers who have researched and implemented improvements in their equipment to bring us better sound.

It got me into modding for the first time. I have a PS Audio DirectStream DAC Sr. The designer of the DAC (Ted Smith) gave a bunch of tips about mods on their website forum. Other users shared pictures of steps they used to do the mods. One person even created boards that you can buy. I learned a lot about how the DAC works. It was quite fun taking the DAC apart and learning about the electronics.

Hey folks, hundreds of millions of people around the world are streaming audio and that wouldn't be happening if streaming wasn't just as easy as pie. Easy peasy. That is the way it has traditionally been with audio, with many users taking the easy way out as we audiophiles dwell on details. For example, I'd wager that most cassette deck users didn't know what "Dolby level" was or how to align it, and that explains why so many people even now think Dolby NR isn't effective. It's the same with turntables and streaming and room correction and cabling and everything else in our little hobby - how far down the rabbit hole is your comfort zone?

For many audiophiles, optimizing setup details is all part of the fun. Maybe you're in the wrong hobby if you're not having fun.

The best I've ever heard Dutch and Dutch 8c direct wired to switch coming from router. You're lost in a subjective wilderness,  getting incredible sound  in streaming is easy and exponentially cheaper than vinyl. The only flat earthers I see are those who deny physics. 

You'll only become more confused over the course of this thread as nearly unlimited presentation of best subjective results with various equipment and schemes.

Believe this due to a technology in fast growth phase, expect much innovation in coming years. I'd expect more consolidation over the long run as some equipment and/or innovations are proven to be more universally superior. Until then, we're running real time experiment, sure innovators observing our, and their own test results, correlation to certain sound qualities being determined.

I see vast majority of streaming equipment as pretty disposable at this point, expect the churning to continue.

First, I'd like to call out that we need another word in our common vocabulary or we need to distinguish between streaming local files vs. streaming from a service. More confusion has been created by opinions about "streaming" without specifying whether they're talking about apples or oranges. 

TOTH to @mike_in_nc for format...

My setup gives excellent sound with the following:

• Synology NAS for file storage connected to a TP-Link switch in a separate room, Qobuz for more
• Roon Core running on a SGC SonicTransporter connected to a TP-Link switch in a separate room
• ISP monopoly-chosen modem, Eero Mesh router in another room, wired Ethernet
• Sonore opticalRendu streamer/renderer as Roon endpoint & Sonore LPS to a good DAC and system
• Macbook, iPad & iPhone as Roon Remotes

What I currently believe:

• Much of the progress in digital playback has been advancements in two areas: 1)reducing jitter(most recent gear does this far better than a decade or so ago) 2)reducing noise(low powered single purpose devices running simple OS & fewer processes, cable improvements & conversion implementations, better power supplies all are valid tactics to fight noise
• it always comes down to the mastering of the music. the best SQ will almost always be in the native format of the recording be it analog or digital. better-mastered redbook will beat lesser-mastered hi-rez. Streaming from a service gives you unknown provenance, often volume-adjusted by the service(says Bernie Grundman), so blanket pronouncements are pretty meaningless when comparing to known local files, CDs or LPs. 
• Macs & PCs are facing an uphill battle vs. streamers regarding noise. OS, multiple non-audio processes, low quality PS etc. make getting good sound from a regular computer more costly and troublesome than it's worth.
• Running a NAS, server, NUC etc away from the audio system helps reduce noise a lot. Optical conversion and some fancy filtering strategies help fight noise too.
• Wifi doesn't sound as good or work as consistently as wired ethernet. Network stability is a PITA and a more stable network will save any user from plenty of headaches and heartache.
• For beginners, getting a decent DAC is first priority, but not the only priority if you want high quality sound. Anyone who says a Blusound Node is equal in SQ to better streamers is in denial or needs to listen to some better setups for comparison.
• As a vinyl LP lover, Roon's UX is significantly more enjoyable IMHE than other software. It's a game changer and provides benefits that increase musical engagement. For me, it's worth the trouble to setup my system to optimize Roon's SQ(e.g. dedicated core in another room). While SOTA level alternatives(e.g. DCS, Aurender) exist, their cost of hardware ownership and depreciation is a huge factor that keeps me away from a closed system. 

Cheers,

Spencer

IMO streaming has still not matured enough, it is certainly frustrating but also exciting times, there is a constant stream of new companies / new products that sound better than previous generation products. Also the price should be driven down as competition hots up but for the time being there is global shortage of ICs which keeps prices high and availability limited. I just hope we are not going to end up like the PC market that once a product is released it is obsolete within few months. At the same time the software is still lacking, perhaps ROON is the best effort on the software side, it could go like the PC market, several hardware makers and two-three operating systems / front end products.

My setup gives excellent sound with the following:

• Synology NAS for file storage, Qobuz for more
• Roon running on a Nucleus-like NUC
• ASUS RT-AX86U router, TP-Link managed switch, wired Ethernet
• Auralic Aries G1 streamer to a good DAC and system
• Furman and Torus power conditioners/surge protectors
• Decent (Billy Bags) stands

What I don’t use are the following:

• Special power supplies or power cords on any of it
• Expensive interconnects or digital cables; no optical LAN here
• Vibration footers, pucks, Ethernet filters, gongs, crystals, DDC, etc.

Maybe those things could make the sound incrementally better. But it’s already so much better than most systems I hear, that I am not motivated. I'd rather listen to music. When I’ve tried tweaky stuff, it’s changed the sound less than moving my chair back or forward 6". So for me, all those tweaks are a nothing-burger.

Upgrade advice gleaned from my personal experience in no particular order...

Fiber optic either all the way from the router or as a breaker

LPS when possible 

Ethernet switches with OXCO clock

DDC if front end is under $20K 

Avoid ROON, apps from dCS, Lumin, Aurender, Auralic and Innuos sound better

Good but not crazy expensive cables of higher gauge

Power conditioning usually passive or battery are best but some active can be good and reasonable like Puritan 

Finally I want to share a totally biased opinion of the DAC manufacturer Lampizator, I just bought and installed a Lampizator Baltic 3 in my system and it is the most discernible upgrade to my system ever, particularly with respect to timbre, harmonics and soundstage dimensions. If you are serious about getting your streaming to match or beat pure analog playback, a good tube DAC with tube rectification is in my opinion a must buy alongside the list of things above.

Wild west for sure, and so much ambiguity. This is best, no this is better, so confusing. The reality is everything changes constantly. I have streamed for awhile using a roku box and spotify. I have considered upgrading but I would need a dac, a ddc, a streamer, a manager app and god knows what else? Up until now it was always the fewer things between the source and the speaker was best, with streaming it's  the most is best? 

I decided not to do it at all. It was even easier.

I decided to just buy streamers and test them.  It was that easy.

Ok, I’ll start with a bittersweet post.  I recently bought an iFi Zen Steam (with iPowerX filter/power supply) to replace streaming from my iPad via a LavriCable adapter (big upgrade over the Apple Camera Adapter BTW) as per the suggestion of several experienced members here and they were 1000% right — the improvements of the Zen Stream were not at all subtle and has severely whet my appetite for what further improvements are possible.  Although the iFi Zen Stream seems to be a relative bargain for the sound quality per $, I have to say their customer support is ass.  There’s no phone support and you have to submit a support ticket and wait for a “support” person to respond via email, which in my case took a few days and resulted in a ridiculously sad recommendation that now requires me to send yet another “ticket” to which I’m sure I’ll get another inane response.  Sorry, but in this day and age this is absolutely archaic and unforgivable.  While I was very happy with the performance of the Zen Stream when it worked, if you’re not technically oriented I just can’t recommend this streamer as there’s basically no support if you encounter issues.  Very sad and unnecessary IMHO. 

This is a time of change. Ambiguity has been a fundamental tenant of high end audio since it’s inception, but given advances in the digital domain, the incredible proliferation of choices in individual choices of components and the joining of computing and audio… yeah, what a complex ambiguous mess.

I have pursued high end audio since the 70’s and adopted digital as soon as available… being an IT executive as my career… enabling me to afford and desire to investigate what is possible.

We are now at the tipping point when digital finally is equal to analog. But the complex choices available can make any given combination show analog to be better than digital, or visa versa. At the low end, analog still tends to exceed digital, as it does at the high end (think > $200K systems). But in the middle, it just depends on your choices.

My analog and digital have been equal for a couple years (see my systems… under my UserID). I recently upgraded my analog end and technically it is now more detailed. But the variation in recordings exceeds the sound quality of the media. So, unless You are an old fart with thousands of vinyl albums (like me)… I would put all my effort into digital streaming. If you have a total budget level of X. If digital streaming doesn’t exceed other alternatives now, it will in five years. Being in technology all my life… I assure you, plan for tomorrow… not today, or you are wasting a lot of money or time. Don’t waste your time on -laying disks either. 

So, if I had a budget system today, I would be laser focused on the best streaming system (with a tubed preamp and tubed amp) possible. This would put me on the lowest cost highest sound quality path possible.

It was easier with vinyl, as non of that extra multi-$1k increments were needed.

• No power conditioners
• No internet lines
• No fancy USBs
• Nothing extra.