Frogman, As you surely know we are in the era of identity politics so white folks (particularly men) are fair game and attacks toward them are encouraged. As a "person of color" there's undeniable irony that I come to their defense but I detest dishonest and destructive ideological BS.
The idea that if you are white you can't be critical of the behavior or actions of people of color is nonsense. People can most certainly be judged on both their words and actions. I don't have any reservations about criticizing white people when I believe that it's appropriate, the converse should be equally acceptable.
Frogman I share the same disappointment regarding the (appalling) lack of knowledge, respect and appreciation for the many outstanding genuine artists of color who's legacy is virtually forgotten by the majority of their descendants. Charles
Here we go again, condemning the “white guy” for criticizing a culture that celebrates grotesque overt sexuality (which is anything but sexy) and minimal talent seemingly because the “stars” of that culture (in the case of the Grammys) happen to be mostly of color. Does the fact that I find it shameful that the greatness of true artists of color is not taught to young people and celebrated to serve as an uplifting example of what is possible make me “clueless”? I don’t think so. Btw, I also don’t recall anyone mentioning color before the “white guy” comments started. Isn’t that the way it often is? Just who is it that always seems to view everything through the prism of race? When more understand the answer to that question is when the culture will become better and more enlightened.
Geez, you could also say all cultures are banal. It doesn’t mean anything. If you said pop culture is banal, well, then we might agree. Besides the US assimilates cultures, you know, a melting pot. So be careful who you’re calling banal. Here’s a question, who is the customer for pop culture?
At one point in my life I listened regularly to rap and hip hop but my tastes have changed (my wife still likes some hip hop occasionally). I find jazz exponentially more fulfilling and substantive, just superior music but I admit this is just my personal opinion. I have zero objection to what other music lovers enjoy, taste is taste.
It seems clear to me however that artists being celebrated for their musical/professional achievements is an entirely different matter than exploiting the setting/platform for tiresome political dogma. Charles
It may be a stereotype, but go to any audio show and you're surrounded by older white guys. And it's not like this is the first thread on Audiogon to lament the decline of Western civilization at the hands of young, non-white entertainers. It's not really that surprising that there's an overlap.
Rpeluso, I am neither old nor white. Resorting to silly stereotypes reveals more regarding you than those you chose to castigate. Okay so as you state you're "old and white" does this grant you the self righteousness to put down others who express a perspective different from your own. Some of us were turned off by the political rhetoric and said so. If you weren't that is also fine as it's a matter of choice. Charles
@rpeluso , Right now, I’m listening to Holger Czukay, The Edge and Jah Wobble trio. Prior to that I was listening to Tony Levin/Bozzio/Stevens trio Prior to that I was entertained by Flora Purim/Airto.
TOUGH QUESTION:
How after that I can listen to any Beatles, Pelvis Resly, Boy George, Justin Bieberlake or Ricky Martin and what it has to do with time?
Did anybody see the "Katrina Aftermath"? That lasted for three days. People were denied the resources every citizen of this country is entitled to, and they drowned as a result of that denial; did anybody drown at the Grammys?
@rpeluso i wish I could be like you. I wish I had a clue like you do. By the way, admitting that you are an old white male doesn't in any way give you special permission to over generalize and stereotype others of your race and gender.
@rpeluso Lots of negativity here about what the Grammy's have become. If you think back to what it was like a decade or so ago, by comparison, the current event is an angry rant-filled, politically charged spectacle.😞
What truly talented artists that are honored, and there are some, are dishonored by the snarky presentation.🤨
A tangible display of the degeneration of American culture. Sad.☹️
It was painful viewing for me.... popular artists since WWII have until fairly recently included enough political musings, challenges and insights in their music that they did not have to lamely preach between sets. And yes, the whole circus was more a social media event than a musical event. Video has finally killed the radio star.
Guswatte, I also feel the "talentless streetwalker" comment was unwarranted as I don’t believe personal attacks are justified (or accurate).
Musical taste is all across the proverbial map as most of us posting here can certainly attest to.
My primary criticism as Frogman and many others have noted is the overwhelmingly insipid one sided political viewpoint. It comes across as embarrassingly shrill and shallow.
Celebrate the music but enough of the political dogma. Charles
I hear ratings were down 25%. I haven't verified this but I haven't watched in several years. It is insulting to me to use the Grammys as a front for pushing a political viewpoint. This viewpoint happens to be polar opposite of mine, but I would feel the same way even if it 'fit' my views. If I want to watch a political show I'll watch c-span or a program that is at least honest in advertising it is based on a political viewpoint.
The babylonian principles and policies of this world are greatly interwoven within the political,religious and entertainment/media structures, which in turn, dominant every core fiber in the mindset of mankind to the point where our own moral guidance for a healthy conscience has been seared and cast aside for the self serving agendas of modern day rulers and kingdoms of this earth. The nightly news reports of this condition playing out daily...without fail.
A sad time indeed for our children's/grandchildren's future...
garebear "Jaz J and Beyonce - really. The talentless street walker was said to be wearing ; $6.8 worth of jewelry."
Curious what your basis is for calling Beyonce a street walker? That's a pretty heavy charge.
Here is what I can gather about her from news sources. She was raised with much love in a middle class or better family in Houston, TX. Her mother was a hairdresser who owned a salon. Her father was a sales manager for Xerox.
She and her parents are registered Republicans.
She attended fine arts magnet schools in Houston. She was raised as a devout Methodist, and regularly attends church. She has never been arrested. She has only been married once, and that faithfully (on her part), to all reports, for a decade to Jay Z. When Kanye West rudely interrupted Taylor Swift on stage when receiving a MTV award, Beyonce graciously gave up some her time on stage to let Taylor receive her award promptly. As far as I can see, she has even treated her husband Jay Z with grace and mercy, when you look at the big picture, when he has cheated on her.
Reads like a person of good character to me. Difficult to see any history of or motivation for taking money or other favors for sex.
She does dress scantily sometimes but not more so than many other music and film industry stars of this and past eras.
Now taste in music is personal. You could say Beyonce's music sucks. But facts do place some limits on taste. To call Beyonce talentless does not gibe with her critical acclaim, tremendous record sales, and influence on music. An individual may not like the music of Elvis or the Beatles or the Rolling Stones but how could these musicians be completely talentless given their outsize influence on contemporary pop and rock?
I encourage you to take a listen to Lemonade, Beyonce's latest album. It is a creative tour de force that includes songs that span styles from country to rock to soul. She sings with great honesty and discipline, which is difficult to do at the same time, about a very personal wound- her hurt about her husband's betrayal. (By the way, I am not a fan of rap, and do find a lot of it tasteless and uncivilized. Although like in most any form of music, there are a handful who make interesting songs that use new sounds and rhythms.)
Jay Z was a thug in the past. He appears to live in a much more civilized way now but can't say I know enough to claim that label no longer applies. His cheating on Beyonce, although that's unfortunately a common behavior on the part of men, does not help.
I get a kick out of the posters who claim they didn't watch the show and then follow up with a detailed critique of the show, including performances. The Grammy's is best PVR'd, you can then watch the entire telecast is less than 30 minutes. The music celebrated does not suit my taste, but that's okay, as most Millennial's
and iGen's don't like my music either.
audiozen - Thanks you. A lot of accurate responses here, and the Grammy's is a sore subject with me, as are most all of these award shows. Tv in general. The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame being a complete joke also, as garebear alluded to. "These "Hip pops"....made me laugh but so true and more sad than funny to be honest. Glad to hear that you don't watch these shows, and that you are aware that the dumbing down that we are witnessing, and have been experiencing for years, is very real and tangible. Not that I ever doubted you. If someone wants proof, just watch The tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. If you thought Leno set the bar low, this Fallon character has no shame at all. Talk about trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator... this is dumbing down the likes of which mankind has never before witnessed. Unwatchable, frat boy humor, drinking games, cracking raw eggs over the guests heads, and a human laugh track audience programmed to laugh hysterically at every lame word that comes out of this suck asses mouth. Low brow, light weight guests who will never challenge him, and a complete inability to conduct an interview. Johnny Carson must be spinning in his grave. Yeah, I know... who's Johnny Carson? Thanks for the history lesson - very interesting. Gore Vidal had a remarkable mind, and I always enjoyed listening to him being interviewed. His views were too honest for many people to process, and It doesn't surprise me that High Schools shunned his works. You are so right about these shows having become political arenas for these opportunistic moron's, most of whom I have never heard of, and couldn't care less what they think about any subject. Let's see... our show is horrible already, but we can make it even worse so why don't we have these little lip synching barbie dolls sashay their bad selves out there and stand up for the cause, because their music sure as hell ain't doin' this country no damn good, but maybe their spoken words can make all these suckers forget about Martin Luther King. Get em' all motivated to listen to computer generated "music" with no real singing or instruments. All fake, just the way they like it! ESPN got political and viewers are leaving in droves. We can only hope that the Grammy's suffer the same fate, God willing.
My pleasure, jc4659; I feel cleansed myself after venting about this pitiful excuse for a celebration of music. I just read that the ratings were down 24% from last year, which warmed the cockles of my heart... so deeply satisfying to hear that people are rejecting such rubbish.
2chfreak..you nailed it. The dumbing down of America is correct. I haven't watched any award shows for years since those shows are nothing more than political arena's for moron's. What has caused this downhill slide during the past twenty years is this. The college professor's. The Universities in the U.S. for many years have been taken over by liberal socialist. Not liberals. These Socialists hate this country, teaching false history of our founding father's. Not teaching the truth that the foundation of our government in 1789 was designed by Freemason's. James Madison, who drafted the U.S. Constitution, was a Mason as well as Thoma Jefferson who drafted the Declaration of Independence. Paul Revere planned out the Boston Tea Party with his fellow Masons on the night of December 14th, 1775 at their Masonic Lodge in the Green Dragon Tavern in Boston. I love American history and could go on forever. Gore Vidal's series of books on American history are remarkable revealing facts and historical events that were never revealed in High School history books across the country.
Not that fond of the show either. But if it's any consolation, most if not all of the political snivelers on the show pay 39.6% federal income tax. That in itself makes me feel better. -John
I haven’t watched this Grammy debacle in at least 15 years. Actually, debacle is too complimentary... a complete TRAIN WRECK better describes this glorification and endorsement for bad taste, thug culture, a dumbed down society, ass shaking, lip synching. auto tuning, sexual teasing (me too speeches. you’ve got to be kidding me!), ignorant and illiterate "artists", marketing creations masquerading as singers/musicians, the total exploitation of women, dressed like strippers where gyrating is the main focus, not singing. And what are they singing? Mostly X- rated amateur rhymes that are brainwashing the already tech addicted and brainwashed, media controlled conformist kids, mostly vulgar and uneducated yahoos that support this embarrassment of an awards show. The key word being "vulgar." That means, for you young nerds and young Beyonce fans out there, that the show is abhorrent and tasteless. Even the production of the show is horrible, a miss mash of disjointed genres with no cohesion with regard to presenting performers, pathetic attempts at humor, and 20 year olds telling the world how to act and think. Yes, I read the wrap up review of this mess, just to get a sense of its ineptitude.
The sad thing is that the people who view this garbage buy into it lock, stock and barrel, and help perpetuate this desecration of music year after year, paying homage to the same cast of despicable characters that are paraded out annually to the delight of every dim witted, media controlled "music fan. "You’ve been hoodwinked, America, and you don’t even know it. Or you just don’t care. It isn’t music, it isn’t melodious or harmonious, they aren’t artists, most of you will ever discover what good music is, and because your minds have been rewired by technology, you will never be able to evolve from your short attention span, vocal fry speaking, must be connected 24/7 existence, and therefore never know the pleasure of sitting still, listening to good music played through a good audio system.
The Grammy’s... proof positive that the moral and ethical decay of the society is in full swing, that people are getting more stupid with each passing year, and that shows like this, including all awards shows, The Voice, America Has (not) Talent, and anything hosted by that little twerp Brian Seacrest have done irreparable damage to the music industry. The Grammy’s has nothing to do with music, and everything to do with provoking and swindling gullible, ignorant people who have been brought up on crap food, a crappy education listening to crap music through their crap audio devices. In a junk culture that continuously sets the bar lower and lower, the Grammy’s represents the bottom of the barrel. It is a vulgar and crass microcosm of all that’s wrong with this country. It’s like the entire country is becoming The People of Walmart. After watching the Grammy’s, people should turn on Jerry Springer just to feel like that are getting a little culture.
Didn't watch. But I did go see Richard Fountain at Steinway Hall play two beautiful pieces by this composer named Beethoven. No Grammy's for Ludwig but I think his music is going to last...so it seems. BTW the show was free and the pianist played on a $200K Steinway treasure.
I watched it as back ground '' noise '' while painting a bathroom. I just peeked out shook my head and couldn't help but think ; what garbage. Jaz J and Beyonce - really. The talentless street walker was said to be wearing ; $6.8 worth of jewelry. Really ...why don't you and your thug husband ; so something about the murders in Chicago ! if you want to '' promote '' your kind.....that's political. Where does U2 get off telling us how to run our country like everybody does and should be greeted with a Big F off when 6 of your counties are still owned by the Brit's ! I swear to God that the Grammy echelon are the same that vote for the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame which is another farce when you have these Hip Pop's voted in before Moody Blues, Willie Nelson and I also do not believe Lynard Skynard is in there. Let's dummy America like you have with everything else and feel a need to bring down it to a new lower level and still have many cry racism when they can't get there way ...again.
The main thing is the best American small ensemble , the Saint Paul Chamber Orchestra, my "home " Band, won the Grammy for Best Recording of Chamber Music/Small Ensemble . Schubert's "Death and the Maiden" with Patricia Kopatchinskaja .
Plays in best hall in the land and SPCO has the lowest ticket prices of any major orchestra in the USA . And up to 4 kids under 15 get in free with parents !
I have not watched any award shows for years. Anyway, I heard on the radio (I will search YOUTUBE later tonight) that the whole Tony Bennett segment was a bit embarrassing. Not so much with Tony himself...but how the Grammy stage staff handled his appearance.
Unfortunately, it was laden w/ Rap and Hip Hop music. This is not a surprise, as it was explained to me back in the 1990's, it is a Hip Hop world. This has come into fruition.
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