I recently moved house and went from a listening space that was pretty generous to my current setup (Cronus Magnum II + B&W 805D3s) to one where the soundstage sounds really flat and underwhelming. Because we watch a lot of movies, I’ve also been running an integrated (Rotel 1592) and using a splitter to switch between that and the Cronus depending on the source (music or movies).
It’s a lot of equipment and wires for a small space and, given how lackluster the sound is, I want to consolidate everything by leveling up to an integrated with room correction.
I’m stuck between an Anthem STR or a Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 (or 3400 if it’s leaps and bounds better than both).
Reviews and comments on both are equally impressive. Has anyone sampled both and have a POV on which I should go with?
First if all, using splitter is not advisable and will degrade the sound quite a bit. Second of all, in general B&W does not pair well with a small powered tube integrated amp such as the Rogue Cronos ii cause your Cronos ii isn’t able to provide enough juice and your B&W need to be pushed and will need more power than your Cronos ii can provide in order to shine. Unless if it’s a high powered tube amp.
For your B&W 805 D3, I highly recommend the Naim Uniti Nova integrated, which is basically a digital streamer/DAC/integrated amp put in a single chassis. Retails for $7500 new. Has built-in Tidal streaming app. The Naim Uniti Nova is a single box solution and is highly musical sounding and will pair really well with your B&W 805 D3. I had the Nova paired with the B&W 805 D3 in my bedroom setup before and today I still have the Naim Uniti Nova but has traded in the 805 D3 for the Sonus Faber Olympica l bookshelf speakers.
The Naim Uniti Nova has lots of inputs : Ethernet, USB, XLR & RCA analog, DIN, coax digital, optical digital, HDMI. It is an outstanding piece and the sound is very musical very refined very fluid and analog like and it paired really well with the B&W 805 D3. Do not get fooled by its power rating of only 80 wpc @ 8 ohms, the Nova is capable of handling low impedance loads. Eventhough it’s rated only at 80 wpc @ 8 ohms but it is a brute force and a very good clean quality current. The quality of the current that matters not the wattage. It uses a big oversized toroidal transformer linear power supply. Highly recommended! The Naim Uniti Nova will sound better and more musical and more fluid and analog than the Anthem STR or the Lyngdorf. The Anthem & Lyngdorf have more powerful amplifications but overall the Naim is better more musical.
The Naim Uniti Nova has better digital streamer/DAC than the Anthem or the Lyngdorf. Naim is very well known for designing and making a digital music streamer/DAC. The only advantages that the Anthem STR & the Lyngdorf have is room correction.
"The only advantages that the Anthem STR & the Lyngdorf have is room correction." This, IMO though, is the major advantage. Room correction will make magnitudes of order greater and positive difference over any DAC or streamer changes. It's not even close My preference having had experience with both companies room correction would be the Lyngdorf.
Thanks for the recommendation! And just for clarification I meant a switch not a splitter but imaginably it’s still impacting output/quality.
I'll definitely dig in to the Nova a bit more but am still leaning toward something that can also offer room correction given the dynamics of my living room: hardwood floors with some carpet, big glass windows, not much depth, etc etc.
Any suggestions along those lines would also be massively appreciated. Based on the specs and chatter around both the Anthem and the Lyngdorf I’m wondering if one > the other given my needs: something with room correction that can have the dual purpose of music and home entertainment.
The Lyngdorf 3400 is the way to go here. It has everything you need and is built to a higher specification. Just make sure you plan on staying 2 channel.
You should invest in acoustical treatments and make effort in getting speaker placements right and spot on. I have the Naim Uniti Nova in my bedroom with satisfying results and I know this is not my main reference setup it’s only my bedroom setup. I’m pretty sure your living room is more spacious than my bedroom. I always go with standmount (bookshelf) speakers for my bedroom and I invested in acoustical treatments.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Lyngdorf products especially with its Room Perfect room correction. I myself have a Lyngdorf MP-50 surround processor in my dedicated theater room, but this is a dedicated home theater surround setup (7.2.6) and used strictly strictly for home theater (surrounds). For surrounds or home theater setup IMO room correction is a must and especially effective in equing your subs and other magic tricks. I found the Room Perfect built in my Lyngdorf MP-50 ht processor very effective and works very well.
However. for stereo setup for 2ch music playbacks I’m not a fan of room correction. I have two separate main reference stereo setups/systems in my main dedicated two-channel listening rooms, which are in separate rooms from my dedicated theater room, that are completely analog setups. I’m using all analog linestage preamps with turntables + phonostage pre as well as external digital front end source components. My Naim Statement NAC S1 linestage preamp that I have in one of my main reference stereo setup is a pure analog linestage preamp (no digital circuitry or room correction). It has only analog audio circuitry and this is a cost-no-object or price-no-object design preamp. I have a pair of big Magico M6 speakers in this setup or room driven by a pair of Naim Statement NAP S1 monoblock amps and the performance, musicality are all top notch. I invested heavily in room treatments and actually all my main dedicated listening rooms were designed from the ground up and specifically built for dedicated listening room. Eventhough I have to admit that my main reference listening rooms are very huge, that’s why I can afford to have those big Magico M6 speakers in it. And speaker placements are paramount and I made special efforts in getting the speaker placements right and so that the interaction between speakers and my listening room is spot on. I achieved outstanding results without room correction and is easily one of the best sounding setup I’ve ever heard.
In my other main reference setup, which is in a separate different dedicated listening room, I also have all analog setup, no room correction correction. This is also another large dedicated well treated listening room and I have a pair of big Sonus Faber Aida ll speakers in this room and I am able to achieve perfect excellent result without room correction. But again this is also a very very large or I should say huge dedicated listening room and is very well treated. I invested heavily in using room treatments. My Audio Research Reference 10 linestage preamp that I have in this setup is also a pure analog preamp. I also made great deal amount of efforts in getting the speaker placements right and spot on in this listening room.
OP we sell many high end integrated amplifiers some with room correction and others which do not. We have been designing high end systems for over 30 years. Room correction is not a panacea, yes it can help improve a room, but a boring, or strident sounding system that doesn’t sound right is not going to magically transform just because you have DSP room correction. The first part is to find a match between the electronics and the loudspeakers. As an aside, most of the best sounding systems at Axpona, did not use any room correction and some rooms did not have any room treatment as all.
Step One: get the match between the components correct
Step Two: tune the room via proper loudspeaker positioning, and if room tuning panels aren’t possible a judicious use of natural acoustical tunning devices, furniture, books, rugs, pillows etc.
Step Three: Then if DSP is available then use it to then maximize the systems response. The Anthem STR is a good sounding integrated the Naim is much more magical sounding.
We have heard the Lyngdorf and they use a digital amplifier which is very similar to to the Digital amplifier stage in the NAD M32 which means a clean but dry sound. Our favorite integrated amplifier with Room correction is the Micromega M100 or M150 which use a pure class A/B amplfier, a state of the art Dac, phono stage, a headphone amp and it looks stunning. https://micromega.com/en/category/news/ The Micromega sounds like the Naim, warm, punchy, and is totally involving so you can have your cake and eat it too if you know where to look.
Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ Micromega, Naim, Nad dealers
Caphill, we heard the Naim Statement amps and preamp at Axpona with the Focal Grande Utopia EVO III and the sound was freaking amazing. OP we just found this review on the Micromega:
This review sums up the product perfectly:
It wasn’t just the richness and depth of the bass, but the incredible
level of detail—such as hearing the sound of the pick hitting the
strings just before I heard the note of the string itself, not to
mention the lovely high-frequency response: sweet, airy, extended… and
more gorgeous than I’ve ever heard it sound on CD. After seriously
surprising myself that I was so happy with the M-100’s performance with
black vinyl, I then slowly worked through listening to all its digital
inputs, a process which necessarily including evaluating everything from
various streaming services right up to the latest high-res formats, and
found that the longer I listened to the M-100, and the more inputs I
evaluated, the more impressed I became by its performance: This is one
seriously cool component! (Well not totally cool, the case could become
warm despite the fan… which I could hear up close when no music was
playing, but not from my listening position, and never when the music
was playing.) And speaking of streaming, that process seemed to continue
even when I switched to listen to a different input, so make sure you
stop it when you’re not listening if you don’t want to consume
bandwidth.
Listening to Takatukas’ ‘Red Blood’, which seemed
appropriate given the M-100’s heritage, the M-100 delivered the wild
roller-coaster-ride of sound for which the band is famous, from the
trademark machine-gun drumming of Bruno Mellier to the screaming, almost
ear-piercing lead guitar shredding of Gerald Ozga. It kicks in from the
opener Paranoiaque/hypochondriaque and keeps the excitement through all
15 tracks to Ras Kouyon. The slam and tone of Nicolas Vitry’s bass is a
constant delight as well.
I was able to confirm that the M-100’s
performance was totally consistent across all the inputs using my
library of cuts that are identical except for format, many of which are
sourced from Soundkeeper Recordings. The M-100 delivered consistently
silent backgrounds, extraordinary dynamics and excelled at maintaining
ruthlessly accurate tonality irrespective of music genre.
Conclusion
As
‘all in one’ components become increasingly common, manufacturers are
pulling out all the stops to make sure their products stand out.
Micromega has pulled out so many stops building the M-100 that you have
to peer upwards to see it (literally, if you wall-mount it). Brilliantly
designed, lovely-sounding, able to be optioned-up and/or upgraded and,
thanks to the MCF customisation on offer, it can be as beautiful as your
heart’s desire. Magnifique! # Jules Larkin
Yes the Naim Statement preamp & monoblock amps are extraordinary, the absolute best I’ve heard and owned period. Well, the Naim Statement preamp & monoblock amps are cost-no-object or price-no-object design products and took 10 years in the making and therefore are expected to perform extraordinary. I paired them with the big Magico M6 speakers and achieved absolutely excellent result.
But for my digital front end source components I’m not using the Naim 500 series NDX digital streamer/DAC + 500 series external PSU though. I’m using a fully loaded MSB Select ll DAC with its Femto 33 clock and two mono powerbases or two mono separate power supply units, one feeding power to its digital side of it and the other one feeding power for its analog output stage. The MSB Select ll DAC comes with a music renderer or streamer. And recently I just added the matching MSB Select transport with its separate Reference power supply unit. The fully loaded MSB Select ll DAC w/ Femto 33 clock & 2 mono separate power supply units is by far the best sounding digital front end components I’ve ever heard and owned. The sound was highly musical very smooth very refined resolved fluid and the most musically engaging and involving and this is literally the most analog sounding digital front end source components. It rivals the best of the best turntables and reel-to-reel master audio tape machines. It did not sound like anything being digitally reproduced at all. Lot of times I completely forgot that I was actually listening to digital music or digital front end source components. The music did not sound reproduced at all. the music had a level of absolute fluidity that I’ve never heard coming from digital front end source components. If you get a chance you should have a listen to it.
But of course I prefer my Clearaudio Statement v2 turntable with its Statement TT tonearm & Statement Goldfinger cartridge paired with D’Agostino Momentum phonostage pre that I have in the same setup. Musically not a single uber high end digital front end source components or other high end turntable setups can match this Clearaudio Statement v2 turntable setup. And by far the D’Agostino Momentum phonostage pre is my best favorite phonostage pre.
I had a chance to listen to the same Naim Statement preamp and amps paired with those giant Focal Utopia Grande before and was amazing but I preferred my Naim Statement/Magico M6 pairing better. The Naim Statement/Focal Utopia Grande setup that I listened to had a Naim 500 series NDX digital streamer/DAC + 500 series external PSU served as digital front end components, which is Naim’s flagship digital streamer/DAC to date. I wonder why Naim doesn’t make Statement digital streamer/DAC or digital front end to match its Statement NAC S1 linestage analog preamp and Statement NAP S1 monoblock amps.
Audiotroy, just curious, how would the Micromega M-100 compare to Naim Uniti Nova sonically and overall musicality? Which one is better especially for the OP’s B&W 805 D3 speakers?
I don’t understand why some people heavily rely or depend on room correction for a simple stereo (two-channel) setup for listening to music. For home theater surround setups & systems YES room correction is a MUST. Can’t live without it.
Caphill, we would agree with you before, but the new Grande Utopia EVO III are far better than the older versions, and in our opinion far more magical and more musical than the the M6. We have a digital front end that we think is on par with yours which is the Light Harmonic Davinci, running DSD 512 as good as any vinyl front end we have heard. The setup at Axpona was all Naim Statement with the new NDS II with the new Focal Grande Utopia Evo III. A few years ago, in Brooklyn NY, there was a showing of the older Focal Grande Utopia but these were not the newer EVO series, were also setup wit the Naim Statement gear, and the sound was good but not anywhere in the same realm not even close. So there must be some real magic in the new EVO III which for the first time really disappeared and the tonality was stunning. You should really check out a set. Also you can get far better sound much more like analog by adding an Innous Statement to your MSB stack. We have done numerous tests on running a server to a streamer vs the streamer running direct, in every demo the server even streaming the very same signal does not come close to what happens when you have a server providing a greater cleaned up pristine data packet to the dac.
Love to talk with you further about your setup, we have tested many power conditioners, and vibration isolation devices.
The OP should get the Micromega M150 which offers much of the superb sound quality of the Naim and includes Room Correction as well. Dave and TroyAudio Doctor NJ
So, the Micromega M150 offers superior sound quality and musicality than the Naim Uniti Nova? What about the Micromega M100? But I bet the Micromega M150 integrated won't be able to compete with the Naim 500 series separates stacks with all separate power supply units for each component?
As far as isolation and rack/furniture I'm using HRS for my MSB stacks (including the Select transport) and my D'Agostino Momentum phonostage pre. My Naim Statement preamp & amps are standing towers. And my Clearaudio Statement v2 turntable is on its own turntable stand. I'm using Shunyata Research Typhon QR / Triton combo power products.
Guys, It is not one or the other. It is both. You always have to optimize your room acoustics. Once you have done that Speaker Control (Not Room Control) adds an additional dimension that an uncontrolled system simply can not match. Every single serious audiophile who has heard my system adds speaker control and are thrilled with the results. First, you can modify the frequency response to suit your taste and conditions. Second, the response of the speakers is now exactly equal improving imaging and depth. Third, all speakers and subs are now perfectly in phase. The system delays the closest or fastest speakers to match the farthest and slowest. Screwing around with room acoustics will not do any of this. You can not have the best performing system without it. If you are ever in New England I would be happy to demonstrate. I guarantee a jaw dropping experience.
I have a Lyngdorf 2170. I have not heard the Anthem STR but a dealer I talked to that sells both Lyngdorf and Anthem said the Lyngdorf is way better. I am really happy with my Lyngdorf. The room correction works great. I do have an Anthem MRX 710 and can confirm that the Lyngdorf room correction is better than the Anthem in my room.
I generally do not add comments but I must say it is very annoying when people with their own agenda or products to sell hijack a post. The original question as very simple. Lyngdorf or Anthem? Why mention Naim or another products. Obviously Dave and Troy Audio Doctor do not sell Anthem or Naim. LOL
Room acoustics first. They will make everything sound better and the room more speaker friendly.
THEN do the room correction. This is my advice and that of professional acousticians. Room acoustic treatment make DSP equalization work much much better.
Appreciate everyone’s input on this. And I 100% agree with @cjw... it’s always nice to get suggestions that aren’t being driven by a sales agenda and are as close to impartial as possible. Know this hobby of ours is very subjective, and that’s what’s so great about it, but it doesn’t need a sales agenda informing that subjectivity.
After a lot of conversations and research I ended up going out on a limb and getting the Micromega M150 at a really good deal. Realllly curious to see how this performs and will follow up on this thread when some thoughts once I get it into rotation.
I owned the Lyngdorf 2170 and Micromega M100. My quick take - Lyngdorf has better room correction, the Micromega just flat out sounded better to me. More power and control over the speakers, and a richer tone.
But.....as mentioned above, room acoustic treatments and speaker placement did so much more for me, and that's why I don't own either anymore.
However, I do believe you made a great choice for your situation, and congratulations on your new purchase!
I am recent owner of a Lyngdorf TDAI 3400 and I couldn’t be happier with the purchase. My system is in a room that’s absolutely terrible and I had neither the time, inclination or money to do room treatments not to mention tolerating the strange looks from the wife. I did a home demo of the Lyngdorf 2170 and was immediately convinced of Lyngdorf. Earlier I had listened to the Anthem STR in two different showrooms. The Anthem was good but the versality of the lyngdorf and the opportunity to demo in my own room with my speakers pushed me in that direction. I know much of these impressions are relative but I’m often amazed at how good the 3400 sounds and I’ve got it paired with relatively inexpensive speakers (Martin Logan Motion 40 and Dynamo 700 sub). The details the Lyngdorf bring out in the music are incredible, the imaging and sound stage impressive and the sub is integrated better than I’ve ever experienced. The bass sounds wonderful, passages with electric bass guitar are intoxicating. I don’t listen at very loud volumes but when I’ve pushed the volume high just experimenting I got no distortion and room correction is still maintained nicely. I’m a happy camper but I do wonder how much better the Lyngdorf would be with very high end speakers.
@ jwh2 As a music lover, in a similar situation, I have the same question, which led me to this thread. I’ve employed fine tube gear separates for decades but no longer have space nor temperament to do so. The many cables and closet-full of spare tubes in weighing me down. :)
Once I eliminated the off-topic, self-important, pontificating bloviations about Naim, yada, yada, and "room treatments," and what you "should do", I gleaned some very useful information. Thanks for your initial post.
I am going to investigate the Lyngdorf, Anthem, Micromega, and DSPeaker.
jwh2, the Lyndorf has the best build quality but forgetting about the money the Anthem STR preamp has the best feature set and the more usable (understandable) Room correction/bass management. If My TACT died tomorrow and I could not afford a Trinnov Amethyst I would absolutely go for the Anthem STR preamp. I do not care for integrated amps as putting a super huge power supply next to a preamplifier grates on my neurons. For the money it may be the finest preamp you can buy today.
Grats on your perches I'd be interested in knowing what you think of the Micomega and its version of room correction.
I've heard the Anthem Pre with arc room correction and was quite impressed. I was also looking at the Anthem-Lyndorf but was hesitant on the class D and Digitizing my Analogue sources.
So I'm still on the fence I also have a %@#$ of a room to deal with.
Hey, so I've had the M150 in rotation now for a few months with MARS (their room correction solution) enabled and while there is definitely a noticeable improvement in sound stage, and general clarity and detail, it's by no means a game-changer. I've been feeding it phono, TV (via optical) and digital through Tidal/Roon. One thing to note as well as that Roon is still not supported which means I'm running a NUC via USB as a workaround.
Overall I'm very happy with my purchase but would have loved to be able to compare everything side by side to be sure that the Anthem or Lyngdorf was worth passing over.
I've compared Lyngdorf 2170 and Micromega M100 at home extensively, and ended up with M100. Personally, I think M100 has edge over on 2170 on warmth and the sparkle in the music I was looking for.
I will add some info here that I think people will find useful.
I am back to comparing DSP because a too big for my room speaker is available for me to buy. For some unexplained reason I want to put this unsuitable speaker into my room instead of something smaller and more sane.
My room is treated and currently sounds very good with KEF LS50’s.
The 3 DSP engines I am considering are:
SPACE OPTIMIZATION - Linn Selekt DSM (heard it) ROOM PERFECT - Lyngdorf 3400 (I heard the 2170) ARC3 - Anthen STR pre (not heard)
I was first thinking of going with the Linn + Katalyst DAC upgrade because it sounded very good. However, after a lot of research I realized that ROON and Linn are strange bedfellows and not a good long term marriage. So the Linn is out.
Now it is down to the Lyngdorf and Anthem. The arguments presented here about the Lyngdorf sounding dry I agree with, but I am now looking at warm sound speaker which may compensate for that. However, saying this, I have demoed the 2170 with an external amp and the sound was awesome, not dry. The preamp in the Lyngdorf is very good. The unit is dead quiet as a Benchmark AHB2 amp, it sounds great at low volumes, the ROOM PERFECT will also work with an external amp. I confirmed the last point with Lyngdorf.
I do not know how important or audible the following feature is.
ICC (INTER-SAMPLE CLIPPING CORRECTION)
When music is being mastered, the level is often very high; upon analysis, you will often find several consecutive maximum samples, indicating something has been clipped away from the original signal. Audio that exceeds 0 dBFS (decibels relative to full scale) will sound very compressed because the headroom is nonexistent. This harsh sound is an unfortunate trend in the music industry and is typically referred to as “the loudness war.”
In order to compensate for this, we have created ICC (Inter-sample Clipping Correction). With ICC, the TDAI-2170 can automatically adjust up to 12dB headroom in the signal processing to avoid clipping of the signal. Through this you will enjoy the full dynamic range and a more natural sound.
I was not able to test ROOM PERFECT and the room I demoed was big so the effects of DSP would likely have been minimal. The Lyngdorf has a built-in Ethernet (RJ45) streamer, though Ethernet was not my preferred connection option. I will check out the EtherREGEN as a solution to lower RJ45 noise into the Lyngdorf if I go that way.
The Anthem STR pre does not have a (maybe noisy) amp inside it’s chassis like the Lyngdorf. It also does not have the ICC feature of the Lyngdorf. However, it has defeatable ARC on the analogue inputs (I have a few). It has balance speaker settings which could be useful to me since I do not sit right in the middle of my speakers. The feature set on the Anthem seems better to me than the Lyngdorf. The sound of the Anthem pre has been described as a little bright in some reviews.
Which is not necessarily a bad thing for the warmish speaker I am considering.
The Anthem STR pre does not have a media player built-in like the Lyngdorf, I would use my computer as the medial player. I prefer this and would connect with a Fiber Optical cable to a Sonore Sgniture Rendu SE Optical.
I will soon head out to demo the Anthem Integrated (without the amp) and the Lyngdorf 2170 integrated (without the amp) connected with an external Class AB amp. This will not answer the issue of which DSP is better but at least I can test the preamp and DAC on each. The room I will demo may not be ideally suited to show the benefits of DSP.
I hope I like the Anthem better because the feature set is perfect and not wasteful for my needs.
I would urge anyone interested in DSP preamps to try the units in their own system. I have found published reviews unsatisfactory, usually cursory and misleading.
I own an Anthem STR Preamp & think its DSP and overall sound are very good indeed. It replaced a more expensive Classe CP-800 and is far superior in clarity and depth of sound; also, its DSP is considerably more transparent. (I cannot speak to the Lyngdorf, as I’ve not heard it.)
No DSP preamp is perfect. I wish I could combine the best features of my old TacT 2.2X with those of the STR -- that would be an ideal unit!
Others to consider might include the miniDSP SHD and the DSPeaker X4. I considered a used Trinnov, but it has a fan, and I’ve found any fan audible in my very quiet environment.
Another extra data point for anyone interested and a important one for me since I plan on running very long internally balanced XLR interconnects between the preamp + amp. Not sure about the Anthem because they did not get back to me.
Hallo yes – we can confirm that the balanced output of the TDAI-3400 are according to the AES48 standard !
Never heard the Anthem. The Lyngdorf makes every set of speakers ive ever hooked up to them sound fabulous. With room perfect active it sounds like a pair of high end head phones. That said I think it does better with full range speakers or monitors and subs than just monitors alone. Tightens everything up tremendously. If intereted in a new one please message me. I have a great dealer and great price.
@mofojo Thanks for the feedback. I have demoed the Lyngdorf and I thought the preamp section was perfect for me. I was not a fan of the amp section so we tried an expensive external amp at the demo and it was lights out great. Now this may have been because the 2170’s amp was too low powered for the Paradigm Person 5F speakers I heard or maybe because the unit had not been played for a while.
I have gone back and forth between the Anthem STR pre and the Lyngdorf preamp section of the 3400 (I want balanced output with AES48 balanced standard support). The unheard STR pre makes more sense because I would not waste money on a unused amp section. However, recently I went back to reading several reviews of the 2170 and they took me back to the demo I had 11 months ago, confirming the great things I remember hearing.
The dealer that has the Lyngdorf also has the Anthem STR integrated, so I will demo that units preamp section out to an external amp to mimic the STR pre. However, my feeling is that the Lyngdorf will win out because of likely a better DAC and the phenomenally quite nature of the unit. I will give this dealer my business for the preamp even if it is not the lowest price.
@yyzsantabarbara Hurry up and buy those yamaha speakers as I can't wait to hear what you think. They look amazing.... Hoping the sound matches. Good luck.
yyzsantabarbara , Please report back with your findings of the pre amp section shootout between the 2 units. Interested for sure. One thing about the Lyngdorf that I believe to be true but I am not positive about is that it will lose resolution if using as a preamp and not going to it's own class D external amplifier via a digital connection. Maybe someone can correct me here if I am wrong. Another thing to consider is the Lyngdorf absolutely sounds better after being on for 24 hours. I leave mine on 24/7 with the display off. If they had just turned it on it would make quite a bit of difference IMO. Would be interesting to have your dealer turn it on the night before you come back and try the unit as a whole package again.
@mofojo I emailed Lyngdorf and asked whether the system is diminished, especially Room Perfect, if I used an external amp.
Me: "I am interested in the 3400 integrated. I would like to clarify if ROOM PERFECT processing can be outputted via the analogue XLR outputs into an external amp. I know that non-ROOM PERFECT output can be sent to an external amp. My confusion arises from comment I heard that said that the 3400's amplification is essential for ROOM PERFECT to work. That is an external amp cannot do ROOM PERFECT."
Lyngdorf:
Hallo RoomPerfect will function no matter how you output the signal - it just requires full-range stereo setup to work
so - no problem to use external amplifier(s) !
Best regards Flemming Smith LYNGDORF AUDIO
Thanks for the idea of keeping the unit on. I will definitively ask them to do so before the demo. I would love it, for the short term, if I could just use the 3400 and my analogue sources without an external amp. The Yamaha may also play better with the Lyngdorf amp versus the Persona 5F (which sounded great with the config and big demo room I described above).
BTW - I am looking forward to try the EtherREGEN if I get the 3400 for streaming vs getting a USB D-2-D streaming solution.
@yyzsantabarbara : You asked about XLR cables. I use cables made for me by a pro audio shop (Pro Audio LA) from Neutrik XLR connectors and Mogami W2549 cabling. In a single-blind test, they sounded considerably more neutral to me and to 4 experienced listeners than a boutique brand costing about $2200.
Power amp is the Bryston 4B3, which I have owned for a little while. If starting fresh, I would give the matching STR power amp a try, to see if there was any special synergy when pairing Anthem equipment.
P.S. I don't know if using the pre section of the STR integrated will give you results equivalent to the STR Preamp itself. I would hope that, given the small cost delta, the STR Pre is better.
@caphill : I agree about making the room as good as possible and doing without DSP if possible. Unfortunately, not every room can give good results without it. The space may be too lossy, not lossy enough, too small, too poorly proportioned, and so on. In such cases, DSP can improve overall realism considerably, in my experience.
I was speaking with an experienced audiophile who has been playing with the Anthem STR preamp for the last few months. I asked if he had an opinion on the Lyngdorf 3400, Anthem STR pre, and the Linn Selekt DSM with respect to room correction. His answer surprised me in that he told me to have a look at the Dirac system found in miniDSP SHD.
Don’t forget to include the miniDSP SHD preamp. It does essentially everything the STR does with Dirac Live (which I use) instead of ARC.
I am going to take some time to check this out since in a perfect world I would buy a preamp to match the amp I want to get. The following product seems to fit that purpose,
Another DSP system that came to my attention as I was looking into the miniDSP is some software from Europe called Acourate, https://www.audiovero.de/en/acourate.php
Supposed to be extremely powerful but maybe difficult to use.
@mike_in_nc Thanks for the XLR info. I am definitely going to go with something like you use and have a very long interconnect to hide my components far from the speakers.
@keoliphant I did not have a good demo with the Yamaha because the room was a nightmare. However, I heard enough to make it the speaker I will get. I wrote something about the demo experience on the NS5000 thread I started in 2017.
@yyzsantabarbara : I also have a miniDSP SHD, and it is a tremendous unit. Since I have them in very different systems (STR Preamp in high-end system, SHD in TV system), I can’t compare sound quality directly. But here are a few things to look at:
Anthem STR pluses:
Computing at 192 kHz (vs 96 kHz)
Tone, balance, sub level controls (none on SHD)
Bigger display
Simpler setup and correction (done through network - no need to connect computer or mic to STR directly)
Better user interface
Phonostage (MM and MC)
miniDSP SHD pluses:
Includes a streamer (renderer)
Lower price -- an incredible bargain
Dirac is somewhat more flexible than ARC in setting target curves
Mic can be recalibrated by 3d party if you want
Good luck with the decision!
P.S. the SHD is miniDSP’s latest, so may be better than some of their other solutions? ALSO, I have looked into Acourate for years. My conclusion was, it was far too complicated for me. Others say it gives the best results, which I suppose it may well do. The developer is a perfectionist and extremely knowledgeable. However, the documentation is not easy, and setting it up is complex. Well, you will examine it and decide for yourself.
@mike_in_nc Thanks great post. Your comment about Computing at 192 kHz is interesting since the Macintosh version of RoomPerfect on the men220 is supposed to be at 96 kHz and the Lyngdorf 3400 at 192 kHz. Some comments I read on A'gon about both units state that the Lyngdorf 3400's version of Room Perfect sounds better.
I believe Lyngdorf room correction only works up till 500 Hz. This may not be true for the 3400. With ARC you can choose yourself up to 20 Khz. Fine for "hot" speakers or if you don’t want the warm sounding bump lots of speakers have in the region 400 - 1500 Hz. Also other adjustments are at your disposal. Also trust the ARC measurements more. Lyngdorf "Normal" mode is not flat. Have had both for a long time and don’t use my Lyngdorfs since I started with ARC. Buy a cheap MartinLogan Unison and try it between your source and DAC. For specific frequency adjustments I use an Antimode 2.0, Would want a Trinnov...
@gosta What you say does not match what I heard from a dealer regarding ARC and Room Perfect. However, I think I your observations are likely to have a better chance of being more accurate. Thanks for the feedback.
@mike_in_nc the STR Separates (Pre Amp and Amp) will offer a better sounding solution compared to the STR Integrated. I have both set ups. The Separates are in my main systems with a pair of Paradigm Persona 9h Speakers and an Innuos Zenith MKIII. The STR Integrated is in my Den with a pair of Paradigm Persona B’s and an Innuos Zen MKIII. I have not performed an A/B test with the Separates and Integrated. That said, the DAC and Phono Stage in the STR Pre is better compared to the Integrated. The STR Amp offers more power than the Integrated. Whereas the Integrated presents a very nice solution (and I personally really like it), if the budget permits you would be better off with the Separates. Good news is that there is not a bad option between either solution.
Regarding the Lyngdorf 3400, an audio friend who goes through a lot of gear had one. He has rotated through a TacT 2.2X, Tact 2.2XP, several DSPeaker units including the latest X4, and numerous equalizers. His speakers at present are, I think, the Harbeth M40.1.
This fellow bought the Lyngdorf 3400 and later sold it, complaining that its corrections gave an unwanted emphasis in the 4 kHz range, and there was no way to override that. I cannot confirm the anomaly from first-hand knowledge; still, the person in question has good ears, as well as measurement mics and software.
I mention this not to denigrate the Lyngdorf, but so that anyone auditioning it can keep an ear open and see if this perceived issue comes up. It was not mentioned in any reviews I've seen, but as I've already said, I often find reviews of DSP units superficial and misleading.
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