Advice needed on MC cartridges

I have the 2MBronze , and a Benz Wood SL and a Charisa Audio Ref1.  (Also the A3s)  The two MCs are a significant step up over the Ortofon.  Cartridges are one the Big Three: Microphones, Cartridges, Speakers.  They are transducers and make the most difference in sound.  Having said that I am unlikely to go the MC route in future - mainly for cost reasons.  Not only do they cost more but the stylus cannot be replaced.  A phono stage based on an LCR network (eg Vida or Allnic) is where you will get better value for money, because of the longevity - though to be fair they will not make as much difference as a cart upgrade.

@skyscraper its been mentioned in this thread already a couple of times, but I'd like to throw my recommendation behind the stylus upgrade for the 2M Black - the LVB 250 (boron cantilever with the same Shibata stylus).

Don't overlook this option or think that it will be only a minor upgrade - it's profound. Everything gets better. Soundstage, focus, detail and other objective parameters like greater quietness in the groove and increased composure. But there is also something far more important - timbral quality, natural balance and realism make great strides forward (and the stock 2M Black was pretty good).

Along with this is an innate ability to present the musical picture without highlighting/spotlighting. For instance you feel like you can move your focus anywhere so easily  - listen to the bass player in the background while a soloist is going gangbusters in the foreground. I'm hearing new things in old favourites, everything sounds so musical and communicative.  

The LVB 250 is for sure a great cartridge for not crazy money. The medium compliance and high output means it won't put stress on tonearms and phono stages like a low compliance/output MC and you'll be more likely to extract its best (from less than the best turntable/arm/phono). I'm using mine on a Technics 1200GR with a Parasound JC3jr phono and it sounds superb. 

@skyscraper - for $1850 (you should be able to get a 15% discount) the MC One Special from VDH should provide a big improvement for you, and because it sounds like you are a value (not cost no object) conscious audiophile like me, the fact that VDH stylus lasts 25-50% longer, makes it a no brainer. I always invest incrementally, so you should plan on a phono stage when you want to take your next step after getting a MC cartridge. It will make a BIG difference if you get a good one. Expect it to cost in the neighborhood of the cartridge at a minimum. It is very important.

VDH will do whatever service is needed for a reasonable price and sometimes VDH will do a total replacement at an attractive price which they did for me because of the pandemic. For some reason, they dont get the publicity in the US I think they deserve. 

Dear @skyscraper  : Why so many posts about Hana cartridge?

Like almost everything the audiophile world moves inside what in stastistics is knowed as a Normal Distribution Curve ( a " bell " curve ". ). According that around the 80% of audiophiles live somewhere near the center of that " beell " live in the average/mediocrity space. So you will always find out thousands of advises around that average audiophile world that through our audio life we were there or still we are and nothing wrong with that: is a reality.

Now, unfortunatelly in analog is not easy to go out of that mediocrity/average world. We need money important money to do it but money is not enough we need high whole analog knowledge levls and certainly a very good know-how/experiences with live MUSIC events.

The audio world function inside that " bell " distribution.

You already arrive to that conlusion with the Hana cartridges and other " average " advises here that only permit that you " swimm " more time in that average/mediocre world till you decide you are already prepared to go out.

R.

@skyscraper

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/audio-technica-at-art9-phono-cartridge

+10 for Audio Technica ART9 (art9xi appears to be replacement, though lpgear.com days art9 is the flagship above the xi).

Read the comments in the audiogon thread attached above. The only two things necessary to know with this cartridge is proper setup (similar to all micro-line stylus) and break-in. The latter takes anywhere between 50-150 depending on who you ask. In the interim it’s still really really good but it does come into its own after that time period.

I have never read so much about a cartridge without a negative review. Again, the cartridge needs proper setup and break-in.

I found phono stage compatibility to be critical regardless of cartridge. Without playing the cartridge of your choice with your Luxman you’ll never know how your upgrade cartridge is going to sound. Each phono stage greatly affects the sound.

I also want to comment on what @mijostyn said about what one will need to spend on a mc to improve on a mm/mi cartridge. First, it's about what your ear hears. Second, it's what your ear hears in your system. @mijostyn has neither your ear nor your system. I'm sure with his ear and his system that his experience is true. His comment about the high and low level phono stages mirrors my thoughts above. Your phono stage may accomplish both levels well or not. Finally, many people will tell you that a $700 dynavector 10x5 will blow doors off of any comparably priced mm. It's a high output mc that does sound amazing. Similarly, I doubt anyone has heard a mm that sounds anything like a koetsu rosewood...smooth as silk. It all comes down to opinions and when it comes to aural opinions, you can only hang your hat on yours.

Goodluck in your search. If you can, find other people with your Luxman who listen to vinyl...even, better with a VPI. I’m sure they’re out there.

Dear @safebelayer : Any cartridge advise needs that the OP change his today tonearm for the cartridge can shows at its best and that change could means to spend between 3K-5K in a decent tonearm and when he has it could be better to go for the Umami Red or the Kleos or Colibri. The ART can't take out per sé the OP of that average big sea.

Yes, only an opinion.

R.

Andrei_NZ- Thank you for your recommendatons. I just finished looking them up.

Sokogear- Thank you for the recommendation on the Vanden Hull MC One Special. Ijust finished reading up on that model too plus the pricier Frog model recomended earlier. I like that Van den Hul will re-tip their MC cartridges if need be for $500 (that price was quoted in one review). which apparently isn’t the norm for MC cartridges from what I’m gathering. VPI does carry the Van den Hul line which is a good thing in that they must feel they complement their turntables.

Safebelayer- Thank you for the link and the recommmendation on the ART9. I was reading up on that one too last night.

Raul, I’m going to take the plunge on a cartridge in the $3,500 dollar range. I’ve been reading up on the Van den Hul Frog (about $3500) ghdprentice suggested, and others in the Van den Hul line. Also I’ve read a little on the Lyra Kleos and the Hana Umani Red. Do you, or anyone, have any other suggestions or preferences for other cartridges to research in that price range?. Any input would be appreciated.

Also, I’m still wondering why you don’t like unipivot tonearms for these more expensive cartridges. I called VPI yesterday, who sell the Van den Hul line. They said they hadn’t ever heard of any issue along those lines. I tried posting that same issue on the VPI Forums site, but apparently that site has been down for months with technical issues.

Mike

When I bought my Frog he said you could get twice the play time out of them. I know I got at least 2,000 hours without retipping… when I traded it in still sounding great.

I tried a 2M Black in my system some years ago, and it was nice but not for me. I’ve honestly liked every single MC cartridge I’ve used (some 20 now) more than it. Certainly no need to spend several K.

A new Benz Zebrawood L from the classifieds here (it ships from HK) at 1500 is a pretty great bang for buck to get that really good "lo MC" sound for not too much money. At 0.4mV output and 12 ohms ohms it’s fairly easy to match with either an active MC stage or a SUT. Its mass and compliance will work well with your VPI arm (the "dual pivot" to improve stability seems like a very good addition for their unipivots btw - I’ve personally heard good results with that and my Koetsu RSP). Hard to go wrong with that Zebrawood, and you’re not in too deep if you want to pivot elsewhere for any reason. Really pretty cartridge too!!

Mulveling, thank you much for mentioning VPI’s dual pivot mod. I’d not heard of that before and it may come in handy if I need to address Raul’s concerns about unipivots negatively affecting cartridge performance somehow.. Just read a long post on the dual pivot mod on the Steve Hoffman site and will have to look into it some more.

Appreciate your recommends too, although I think I’ll be going the expensive route. At age 70 in a few weeks, I’m beginning to realize it’s time to try and get the best you can afford while you still can and still have time to enjoy it.

Ghdprentice, that would be great to get double the usual MC life span out of a Van den Hul Frog. If I had to purchase today I’d be leaning in the Frog’s direction, but more research after identifying alternatives at that price point is probably a good idea.

If anyone has any suggestion in that $3,500 price range please let me know. Thanks,.

Mike

Unipivots are just a pain to handle-they jump all over the place whenever I’ve demoed one. I guess you can get used to it, but gimbal arms are a breeze. I’m a Rega owner for 15 years or so, and their arms IMHO give the best bang for the buck. No VTA, but I dont think that is a big deal so long as it is set up correctly initially with a spacer if needed if the cartridge is higher than Regas (I am not a big fan of their cartridges).

Unipivots are just a pain to handle-they jump all over the place whenever I’ve demoed one. I guess you can get used to it, but gimbal arms are a breeze.

This is a gross exaggeration. I owned the Graham 1.5T and then Phantom II unipivots for a total of 28yrs and found them supremely stable and easy to use - excellent sounding too. The 1.5T replaced a SME-V and was easier to setup and more adjustable. 

After 20+ years with a unipivot I agree it is not a easy to use the first dozen times you use it… I would not make an audio decision based on that. 

Tobes, ghdprentice, and sokogear- I’ve not noticed any problems with the VPI’s unipivot arm other than it being a little jiggly right when placing it on a record. However this doesn’t appear to be any big deal once you get used to it as ghdprentice indicates, But I am certainly no expert. Just someone who’d rather not go to the expense of a changing tonearms unless absolutely necessary. Buying a pricey cartridge is quite enough expense by itself.

Mike

If you are OK with the unipivot and it sounds good to you, I wouldn't change it just because it is a unipivot, spend on a cartridge and phono stage. If I had no arm, I probably wouldn't buy one.

Dear @skyscraper  : " But I am certainly no expert... ""

Certainly you are not but neither those gentlemans that posted is ok with unipivots, no matters what .

I posted why unipivots are wrong tonearm design and @mijostyn  that understand perfectly the why's posted too about. This is not if what we listen through we like it or not that's not the main issue the main issue is deeper than that and has to do with the task that any cartridge must does at microscopic and macro levels and that unipivots are unable to hold the cartridge to fulfill its needs at those levls. Yes, unipivot can works but in wrong way and this is the issue. 

The matters is know-how and common sense not if we like it. Btw, the Graham was a copy-cat of Audiocraft unipivot AC3000: @tobes do you know Audiocraft changed it by the 3300?

R.

Raul, I went back and found your post on this thread where you explained how unipivots create too much unstabillity for the cartridge/stylus in the record groove. I missed that entry somehow. Appreciate your explanation there and just above. Thanks.

Sokogear, I’ll have to make do with the unipivot for the foreseeable future, since I’m now wanting a pricey cartridge that will stretch the budget a bit, plus not being wealthy. I’ll also be going with the phonostage built into my Luxman 507uX Mk2 integrated amp.

Mike

" But I am certainly no expert... ""

Certainly you are not but neither those gentlemans that posted is ok with unipivots, no matters what .

I never claimed to be an expert, just an end user, I left the expertise to  Bob Graham (an actual engineer) ;-)

The matters is know-how and common sense not if we like it. Btw, the Graham was a copy-cat of Audiocraft unipivot AC3000: @tobes do you know Audiocraft changed it by the 3300?

There are certainly similarities, but also important design differences. So what?

The point of my statement above was simply that not all unipivot designs feel unstable - they certainly don't "jump all over the place" - nor are they all difficult to use (even with no experience). Setup and use of the Graham arms was a 'piece of cake'. 

Analog playback is imperfect by nature, different designs make their choices in dealing with the imperfections. In practice there is 'more than one way to skin a cat' ;-)

Peace and back to the subject under discussion. 

The Graham Phantom is really more like a hybrid - greatly damped and stabilized by the lateral magnetic "bearing". I agree - in setup and use the Graham is as easy and comfortable as it gets in high-end analog! 

The original VPI unipivot is an example of the wobble-fest that a lot of people hate. Even the unipivot bearing itself is not comparable to the Graham's, which is made of much higher quality materials and damped with a silicon bath. 

The VPI dual pivot does help (at the slight expensive of another friction surface) and I've found the 3D arm equipped with it to be quite usable and nice sounding. 

expecting universal agreement isn’t gonna happen…given you don’t want to change arm and TT, you got good advice to seek out magico owners running your phono preamp…..

Jasonbourne is right on the money.  The Hana is fantastic; virtually nothing to compare to those overrated Ortofon's, especially a 2M ( kind of plodding and boring really ).  An Audio Technica at half the price of a 2M would at the very least be its equal, if not better.  I'm done spending thousands of dollars on a cartridge.  When my Dynavector dies, the Hans SL low output is where I'm heading. at a third the price.  

@safebelayer , here we are with ears again. In reality what something sounds like is unrelated to how something performs. Just because the moving coil market is different than the high output market means you are going to spend much more for similar PERFORMANCE. You can get a Gyger S stylus in  $600 GOLDRING, a $2000 Clearaudio Charisma, a $5000 VDH and a  $17K Goldfinger. There is a lot more to a cartridge's performance than the stylus but still.

If you believe what any one individual says a piece of equipment sounds like is an indication of it's performance...well, good luck to you. Most people, audiophiles included have absolutely, incontrovertibly no idea what they are listening to which means their opinion of what something sounds like should be suspect. It only applies to the individual. Usually, whatever they just bought sounds best. 

Let me post another and different question than one on unipivots, that may be less controversial. At the worst I can probably solve that issue with the VPI dual pivot mod mulveling suggested.

Mijostyn mentioned early on this thread, and above, there is a substantial monetary premium to pay for selecting a MC type cartridge, due to the popularity of MC’s. So today I began researching MI cartridges as suggested. With a budget in mind of three to four thousand dollars, do you think I should categorically be able to purchase a substantially better cartridge going the MI route? Or might it rather be more a matter of preference due to how each sounds.

The Soundsmith site lists a well reviewed MI cartridge called the PAUA MK II ES at $4000. Do any of you know how might compare with similarlly priced MC cartidges such the Hana Umani Red, Lyra Kleos, Van den Hull Frog, Charisma Audio Signature, Koetsu Rosewood Standard, Benz Micro Ebony. or others similarly priced. If MI cartridges are relatively speaking a much better value without a built in markup, it appears you could get much better cartridge at the same price with an MI. What do you think? Is that overly obvious or too simplistic? Any advice and guidance would be appreciated. Thanks all,

Mike

@skyscraper , of all the cartridges you just mentioned the only one I personally would consider over a Soundsmith Voice is the Lyra Kleos. Lyra really makes measurably better cartridges than most MC companies. The only other two that I care for are Ortofon and My Sonic. These cartridges are fabulous but require expensive arms and phono stages to perform a their best. The monetary commitment is much greater. If you can afford them by all means go for it. I myself am hanging out with the Voice until I am ready to go for broke again. Pick a direction and head there. I always know way in advance what my next move is going to be. I have to go in baby steps to not piss off the wife. My last move cost me $20K in furnisher. 

Thank myjostin. Is there anything particularly identifiable in the sound of MI’s you know of that might distinguish them from MC’s, or make some folks prefer MC’s for some reason? I’ll study up on the ones you mention tomorrow. Appreciate your assistance,

I know what you mean about your wife’s input. My late wife would have killed me by now if she knew of all my spending on stereo equipment since she passed away four or so years ago. Appreciate yours while you’ve got her. Thanks,

Mike

I'm very sorry to hear that. I do not know what I would do without my wife. If buying stereo equipment keeps you from drinking yourself do death I am sure your wife would tell you to buy away. 

The Soundsmith is one of the best tracking cartridges you can buy. Very few MC cartridges can track at their level given the same type of stylus and cantilever. Sound wise the Soundsmiths are very balanced. Their amplitude performance across the frequency spectrum is dead flat and their resonance point is way up above the audio spectrum. Because of their very low moving mass their resonance point is much higher than any MC cartridge I know of except perhaps the low output Lyras and My Sonics. They have no sonic character which for some people is their downfall. Many people prefer a cartridge with character, more bass or more treble. Some distortions can give a cartridge a euphonic character. IMHO these distortions, in most cases interfere with proper imaging. 

Dear @skyscraper  : You have really short memory. When I touched the unipivot issue I gave in the same post the VP 3-D bi-pivot option and way before that I posted a warning with SS cartridge due that can't be handled directly by your Luxman and now you are thinking in the LO PAUA MK2 that needs at least 470 ohms as loading impedance when your Luxman has fixed 100 ohms and if you want that SS cartridge you or a technician needs to change that stock resistor inside the Luxman.

R.

Mijostyn, like you I do prefer a flat uncolored response, so a Soundsmith MI cartidge should be just the ticket in that regard. Thanks for describing the attributes of their cartridges. I watched a couple of Youtube videos by Soundsmith owner Peter Lederman last night, who was describing how he designed his cartridges to address the things you mention about them. Quite interesting. I’ll do some more research on the Lyra and My Sonics you mentioned as well. Thanks.

Raul, I spent considerable time last night studying the impedance issue you mentioned in your earlier post in regards to the Soundsmith Paua impedance requirements. Not even knowing what impedance is, that took some doing. Here is what I found out. The Soundsmith Paua currently available operates at the standard 470 ohm impedance commonly used for mm cartridges. Looks like some redesigning has been done. Here are the specs listed for the Paua on the Uptown Audio site: Look at the last spec listed.

Specifications:
Stylus: Contact Line Nude, 0.100mm SQ
Radius of curvature: Nude Contact Line SELECTED
Cantilever: Telescoping Aluminum Alloy
Recommended Tracking force: 1.7 to 1.9 Grams
Effective tip mass: 0.30 mg
Compliance: 10µm/mN (low compliance)
Frequency response: 20-20,000 Hz ± 1.0 dB
Channel separation (stereo only): 1000 Hz >34 dB 50-15,000 >25 dB
Channel difference: <0.5 dB (Stereo)
Output Voltage: 0.4 mV
DC Resistance (DCR): 10-11 O each channel
Coil: 2.75 mH each channel
Suggested Preamp Gain: 58-64 dB
Soundsmith Recommends: MCP2 Variable Loading Preamp
Cartridge weight: 10.25 grams
Recommended Loading: 470 Ohms

The 470 ohm setiing is available as the MM phono amp (phono stage) setting on the Luxman 507uX MK II. So I should be good there if I end up going with the Paua. I’m only in the early stages of research however, so we’ll see.

I do recall you mentioning the VP 3-D bi-pivot option, now that you mention it and wondered what that was, but didn’t realize that it was a mod, rather than a separate tonearm. I am paying close attention to your posts, so please be flattered, And I do admit to never having had much short term memory, especially when it comes to remembering person’s names, I take a lot of notes, write things down, and bookmark lots of sites as I research to compensate.

Mike

Loading for MM cartridges is 47K Ohms.

Until recently I might have agreed with the conventional wisdom.  I have used an Accuphase AC2 MC cartridge into a Counterpoint SA-2 Headamp into an ARC SP-6 preamp for years, because it sounded about as good as you can get.  But recently in my second system I installed my old ADC XLM with a new ZLM original manufacture's Shibata cartridge feeding the phono preamp stage of an Accuphase BT-2 preamp (which equals the SP-6 phono stage) and get equal/better sound.  Since you already have the Shibata stylus'ed cartridge, try carefully and painstakingly adjusting the Vertical Tracking Angle of the cartridge.  Very small differences change the sound a lot.  Get it right and then judge your satisfaction.  If it sounds very good and "right" to you, then stay with it.

Erichsch- this is getting increasingly confusing. If the loading impedance for the Soundsmith Paua MI cartridge is 470 ohms, is that different from the listed 47 k input resistance listed in the Luxman 507uX Mkii specs? The electronics terminology may be lost on me. When I saw the 47 in both I thought it must be the same figure. Maybe not. Somebody please steer me straight. Thanks,

Mike

I emailed Soundsmith to get an answer on the compatability of the Paua mk II MI cartridge and the Luxman integrated’s phonostage. I’ll post the answer from them for anyone interested.

Mike

For a number of years I sold wood bodies for the Denon DL-103 and 103r cartridge, on Ebay. For a couple of years I used a Ortofon 85th Anniversary SPU moving coil cartridge. If you can even find one, a lovely sounding cartridge, but pricey. Ranging anywhere from $2,500-$3,500. I have had a number of Soundsmith Ruby Cantilever / Optimized Contour Nude Contact Line Diamond Denon 103r cartridge's, and when I purchased a Pete Riggle "Woody" tonearm, he suggested I just try the factory Denon 103 on his arm, with no modifications.  I nuded a new Denon 103, inserted it into one of my Panzer wood bodies, potted with beeswax and what I heard made my jaw drop. I ultimately sold both of my Ortofon cartridges and never looked back. So, do yourself a favor, purchase a Denon 103, nude the cartridge (very easily done) insert it in a nicely made wood body,  pot it (not mandatory) and give that a try before spending a sizable amount on one of those boutique type cartridges. If you properly setup your tonearm, I am confident you will be quite please with what will amount to a $400-$450 cartridge, and I can assure you, it will stand up to virtually any cartridge several times or more the cost you will have invested in the Denon in wood.

@skyscraper 

Sorry - I have listened to the Paua extensively - it requires a load of around 470ohms to 1k. Optimum is around 800-1000ohms - therefore it will not match the Luxman. It needs the gain of a moving coil phono, but your phono loading is limited to 100ohms on the MC input - too low for the Paua.

The high output Soundsmith range - Voice/Aida/Zephyr mkIII. are designed for MM input at 47k and may suit. The output is low at 2.12mv, but your MM phono inputs specs out at 2.5mv - you might have to turn the volume up a little.

The van den hul Frog/MC One Special require minimum load of 200 ohms - again will not suit the phono in your Luxman.

However the Van Den Hul MC Two is a high output version that will run into your ?MM input - it has 2.25mv output recommended load 47k

If you are looking at moving coils - the following have recommended loads of a minimum 100ohms

Audio Technica ART9 series

Dynavector

Koetsu

Ortofon Cadenza series

Check out Air Tight PC7 - in you price range and very good match - they make the Luxman MC cartridge.

Coming back to the Paua - it is an outstanding cartridge - if you purchased the matching Soundsmith MCP2 phono you would be very happy. I have compared the SS MCP2 phono to the Lamm LP, Linn Uphorik and other more expensive phonos with the Paua and the MCP2 holds its own. From what I can see from owners who have compared the phono stages in the Luxman integrated amps to separate modest priced phonos the Luxman phono is average.

Dear @skyscraper : " The 470 ohm setiing is available as the MM phono amp (phono stage) setting on the Luxman 507uX MK II. So I should be good there if I end up going with the Paua. "

You have a big problem and is that your knowledge level is not low but non-existent at all. Your Luxman MM stage has not the gain need it to handle the LO SS cartridge.

I already told you that for that PAUA MK2 can run in you unit a Technician need to change the stock 100 ohms resistor for a 470 ohms. That’s all what you need it.

Btw, how many LP’s do you own?

Sorry to say this but if I was you with your non-existent know how I just be steady with my 2M Black till I learn because analog is extremely demanding in knowledge levels that you just unknow at all. You not even know what to know about.

R.

I.ve never heard the Orfofon. Mt reference for an MM is the Sure V15 RS with a Jico SAS stylus, which is/was quite highly regarded. When I upgraded to MCs I went through the following progression on my Oracle Alexandria MK III/rewired Sumiko Premier MMT through a Musical Musical Surroundings Phomomena II phono stage:

Denon DL-301 II

Dynavector 10x3 (I was just curious)

Hana EL

Hana SL

Audi-Technica AT33PTG/2

The sweet spot for me (and the best of the lot by a large margin) is the Audio-Technica. Cheaper than the Hana SL and just a more profound, realistic, musical device. I recommend it highly and so do all these people.

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/best-cartridge-youve-never-heard-of-the-audio-technica-at33ptg-ii.329374/

If it's too costly or you feel you need to invest in a phono stage and scrimp on the cartridge for now, I definitely think the Denon is a no-brainer. You'll find more folks in the DL-103 camp, but I went for the 301 for it's balance and refinement, but that was based on reviews I read; not A/B comparison.

Good luck and enjoy the search!

Other question: how much of your daily/week time are you using to listen LP and how much time the digital alternative?

R.

426hemicuda. that sounds very interesting what you accomplished with your Denon 103 plus cost effective. If you were living close by I’d like to see how you did that. I admire anyone with the skill level and. know how to accomplish something like that.

Dover- thank you for your explanations and offering alternative cartridges to consider. This is a difficult subject to understand for an end user not conversant with electronics. So I appreciate you taking the time to try and explain some things. I’ll research all the alternative cartridges you recommend.

Raul, I don’t know much about the nuts and bolts of electronics, but should be able to figure out with some help an appropriate higher end cartridge compatible with the rest of my system. At the least, t am trying to learn so I don’t make too bad a mistake, so bear with me.

I’ve somewhere between 1300 to 1500 vinyl albums. I haven’t counted them in years. It varies, but I usually divide my listening time about equally between vinyl and CD’s. I’ve considerably fewer CD’s but their all newer to my collection and easier to use, so they get more use per capita. I’ll generally play two or three albums or CD;s per day on average.

2channel- thanks for your input and sharing your journey through the cartridges you’ve owned. At this point maybe I should just be soliciting recommendations on cartridges that fit my price point ($3500 range) that would be compatible with my Luxman integrated amps specs and my VPI Classic 2 turntable. I’m a bit disappointed both the Paua and Van den Hul LO won’t work. Thanks for the link too. I’ll check it out.

Mike

I copied the specs from the Luxman manual below for anyone who might be following along and interested and trying to learn about this subject and the specs under discussion.

Luxman 507uX MkII Specifications

Why don't you search out MC carts with a 100 ohm load? Don't  know how many carts are rated that low, but might be worth researching. Im not shilling for Hana ML,  but it is a cart that works nicely with a 100 ohm load. I'm  sure there are other fine carts out there at 100 ohm loading, I just haven't searched for them.

And to Raul. You don't have to tell me my analog knowledge is limited. I already know that...lol

Lyra Delos = 91 Ohms theoretical optimum loading, I run it into a 100 ohm load ( variable loading plugs ) on my Herron phono stage….

$2k ….. if you can find one….

Mr._m, I will do just that and have already started.

Tomic601, The Lyra Kleos has the same 91 ohm optimal loading. If your Delos can run at 100 ohms loading perhaps I’ve identified one potential candidate for purchase in the Kleos. Music Direct carries both.. The Kleos fits my budget at Music Directs price of $3695. Thanks.

Anyone know of a reason or spec that might lead you to believe the Kleos might not work witn my Luxman 507uX integrated amp or VPI Classic 2 turntable?. Below are the specs for the Lyra Kleos listed on the Music Direct site.

Lyra Kleos Specifications

Type: Moving Coil, coil and flux field centered design
Output voltage: 0.5mV
Frequency response: 10Hz - 50kHz
Channel separation: >35dB
Diamond stylus: 3x75µm Lyra designed Ogura long footprint Line Contact
Overhang Alignment: 0.12mm Locator Hole Precisely Aligned over Stylus Tip
Magnet(s): Dual disk neodymium
Coil Former: 5N iron core & 6N copper coils
Cantilever: 0.3mm Diameter Ogura Solid Boron Rod
Tracking force: 1.7 - 1.8 grams (1.75 Optimum)
Dynamic compliance: 12 x 10-6 cm/dyn
Internal impedance: 5.4 ohms
Inductance: 9.0 uH
Recommended Impedance: 91 - 47kOhms
Weight: 8.8g

Jim.

Great call on the Lyra Delos! I had no idea you could load the Delos with 100 ohms. Definitely a top choice. Can't wait to hear that cartridge again!

been giving you hints….a Delos and the pivot kit upgrade for your arm will run circles around a Kleos in your unipivot…. i run a Delos in a $7 k Triplaner…. save the Kleos $, fall back ( which will really be forward ) to a Benz or Delos or Dynavector at $2 k…..

just my $.02

Does it look from the specs above the Lyra Kleos has the same theoretical optimal load of 91 ohms? I don’t know how to read the specs with any degree of certainty. It would be nice it would work like Jim’s Lyra Delos does.

Mike

I have the Hana ML and I love it. I think the retail on it was $1200, but I was able to get a break at my local hi-fi shop. I absolutely love it. It’s on a Debut Pro and powered with the Parasound JC3 Halo jr. I think it sounds amazing. I would feel confident with any Hana cartridge based on my experience. 

@skyscraper, if you can afford a Kleos go for it, it is a fabulous cartridge and will work perfectly with your moving coil input.

You have to pardon Raul. He can sound a bit harsh due to the language barrier. He always means well. He is a realist and generally hits the nail on the head but many people do not want their nails hit.

I sold my VPI Classic 2 with a Classic 3 tonearm and dual-pivot to a friend.  I was at his house last week and he recently acquired a Lyra Kleos and it sounded fantastic.  Seems like a great combination.

Johnnymics- glad you like your Hana ML. Seems like they manufacture some exemplary cartridges.

Jim, Thanks for the feedback the Lyra Kleos will work with with my integrated amps moving coil input. That’s good news. I’m working on a new list of MC and MI cartridges that fit my budget and will work with with my Luxman 507uX’s built in phono stage. The Kleos has moved to the head of the class now. I’ve an email in to Soundsmith and will contact Uptown Audio see if either sell any other cartriges that will fit the bill.

Big_greg, thanks for sharing your friend has your old VPI Classic 2 with both the dual pivot mod and a Lyra Kleo cartrige. I was reading up on the Kleos on the Lyra site. yesterday. They seemed to be recommending a steadier tonearm than the unipivot might be without the mod. So I’ll take your experience as a confirmation VPI’s dual pivot mod might be just the route to go. That’s more good news.

Again, anybody with MC or MI cartridge recommendations that fit my budget of $3000-$4000 and meet the specs of my Luxman 507ux MKII phono stage listed above, I’d very much welcome your suggestions. Thanks each and everyone of you for your input thus far.

Mike

May I offer that the Ortofon 2M Black is not "about as good as it." The Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 is a pretty significant step up.

Joseph, I don't doubt it. 

Mike