Unfortunately logic is not faring any better here at this point so perhaps a coin flip will do.
Adding a “safe haven” forum for discussion of tweaks?
I think we can all agree that threads about tweaks like fuses, stones, mats, power conditioners etc. stir up all kinds of controversy, conflict and ill will.
Short of banning discussion of these controversial topics, is there another solution to this problem?
I got this idea from teo_audio’s comments about a solution implemented at Canuck audio on another thread:
“Canuck audio tames it by having a cable and tweak area for threads. Where any counter to the idea that such things are functional (in attempt or in analysis), is not tolerated.
Meaning.. threads where people discuss tweaks, or mods or cables and so on, if a naysayer posts there, and interrupts the discussion, in any way, they get their posts deleted. And...if the given naysayer can’t hold their tongue, after said deletion-ish warnings..... they will, rapidly, via any repeats in behavior, find themselves banned from the forum. They have to grow up, or get lost.”
You may not like parts of his description, but I think the idea has real merit.
I propose a new “safe haven” sub-forum, with some special rules, for the discussion of tweaks. These rules would ONLY apply to this specific sub-forum, the current rules would continue as they are in all other areas.
The special rules would be along these lines:
Posts that categorically deny the possibility of tweaks having any effect or value are not allowed.
Posts proclaiming tweaks to be “scams” “cons” etc. are not allowed.
Posts that directly state, or imply, that another poster is lying, are not allowed.
Posts that make absolute negative statements like “Science proves it can’t work.” are not allowed.
Posts demanding measurements, controlled listening tests etc. are not allowed.
Posts that express skepticism (without making absolute negative statements), ask tough questions, or request more information are welcome.
Of course, some who hold the above opinions may object, but they would still be able to express those opinions in all other parts of the forum, just like they always have.
What do you think?
241 responses Add your response
Science describes the way things happen in terms of theory, or sometimes even equations. Newton for example described the gravitational force between two bodies as the sum of their masses divided by the square of the distance between them. Thus he quantified the behavior of matter in terms of this gravitational force. Newton did not at any point say what the force of gravity is. Likewise, Einstein introduced a theory of gravity based on mass curving space-time. A more sophisticated set of equations that yield virtually the exact same answers as Newton’s- at least until we reach very high densities and relativistic velocities. At a significant fraction of the speed of light, or near very massive objects, everything changes. This is by the way not a at all theoretical. One of the first proof’s of Einstein’s theory was in the observation of the orbit of Mercury. Being so close to the sun space-time was curved enough to introduce aberrations in its orbit that were unaccounted for by Newton but perfectly by Einstein. That said, deja vu all over again, Einstein did nothing to tell us what the force of gravity is. Where it comes from. Why. Instead he invented the cosmological constant, a sort of anti-gravity, and gave it just the precise value needed to account for the fact the universe expands at the rate that it does, and no more, and no less. Hardly science. Einstein himself acknowledged this failure. Newton stated directly in his Principia Mathematica that he had not described what gravity is, but only what it does. He was clear this was God’s work, and that his work was understanding God’s creation. This is but one in a very, very long and comprehensive list of scientific observations that all point in the same direction: a God created universe. I know. But when we live in a world of lies the truth tends to have exactly this sort of controversial effect on people. Think about it. |
Wow this silly thread is still going? BTW the Bible explains time in I believe it is Genesis 1-1..... Science explains gravity as What is the scientific theory of gravity? Gravity is most accurately described by the general theory of relativity (proposed by Albert Einstein in 1915), which describes gravity not as a force, but..... |
Note to cable and tweak haters: Gravity, Atoms, and Time, are all impossible to explain scientifically, so they are snake oil. A bunch of lies coming from a bunch of snake oil salesmen. Yet..those things are believed in and accepted as real. But we can't somehow..hear a difference in cables. Not allowed. Verboten. Logic went all pear shaped in there...somewhere... |
Interesting jazz album by the way thanks...
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@mahgister Not polish. Just able to use Google translate. I'm ham salad (my wife's best friend's apt description of white folks). I also like maps despite their flaws. I despair that some of these threads get so nasty. But I like zinging off topic as this has..It’s kind of like net surfing. |
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I just really wonder if a coyote can catch a roadrunner without the aid of ACME? So far it hasn’t worked.. That is how important an ignore button really is.. :-) Some things you just quit doing after you figure out it’s not working. That coyote though, keep going back to ACME.. Kinda’ like listening to Yoko Ono and wondering WHY you don’t like to listen to music?!... I say bannish the whole bunch to the Yoko Ono fan club forum.. ;-) |
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This thread is new to me (I've read none of it) so forgive me if this was posted before. AA has a cable section where it is specifically stated that deniers will not be tolerated. That site is set-up much differently, though. Timmylion has a very good mutual desire, I agree. If only we could just tar and feather the offenders! 😄👍 |
The Truth We Dare Not Face --Divine Electronics ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Where the horde is used to quell or kill off things that the masses, the applied horde.. may not fully comprehend. Where violence is used to kill off intelligence and capacity and application of intelligence and capacity. A known example, when at it’s peak in error and malevolence.. is the sacking and buring of Alexandria. Another is the forcing of the hemlock on Socrates. Socrates took the hemlock as he seems to have decided he could not -would not- live in world of misguided idiots and controllers who did not want to deal with truths that disarmed their life postions. Then, Giordano Bruno.... Therefore.. We’re long past that ideal (of discussing it as science in the overall group) and have moved into a situation where this idea, this good thought, this sensibility is being used to repeat >one side< of the argument over and over and over. The ignorant side. That ’reality of ignorance’, in near infinite repeat....In an effort to force the conclusion and the evidence over into the one given camp- the camp that says it is all wrong headed and non existent. We’re dealing a group and individuals who are insistent they are correct, when they are wholly wrong and cannot understand the subtleties of the argument, how those subtleties work together, and how those elements make for a cohesive functional conclusion...that cables make a difference. Where they can’t wrap their head around the entire package of the functional solution, so it must be false, it must be anti science, it must be all lies. What we need is an area of calm for those who understand that difference in not just the devices under test, but for the individuals who are capable of committing to the complex analysis of the device under test. Where those people who ’get it’ are not abused by what is essentially a rampaging horde with violence in their mind and no context of understanding within them. We’re dealing with a problem of people not rising to the complexity of the question but that they are trying to dumb it down into what they know. Which is wholly anti-science. If a person does not understand an aspect of a solved equation then they must rise into it, not denigrate the question and answer set like a petulant child. Eg, for engineering... the theories of science are taught in rote memory repeat fashion as a law, not a theory. This is to have people who are not at the level of the theorist - be useful in the world. Where the fundamental functions and ways that people think and exists as, in the fundamentals of consciousness vs unconsciousness and instinct..where those areas of existence are utilized to make a more natural path of success in endeavor and direction. They may individually be capable of contemplating that all is theory and that no facts exist, but the group overall is taught in a ’theory-as-law’ scenario, in order to help the bulk of them be helpful to humanity’s growth and continuance. Some among them can handle that all of it is theory and they may move to the position of being a theorist or a ’discoverer of new things’. An experimenter and theorist in the fundamentals - the place where we learn the new things that ultimately move us forward. Where if they can’t reach it, then they must at least have the common sense to step away. Or at least regroup and try to understand the components of the question and answer set, within the limits if their mind and their capacities in their senses. As this is not an intellectual question, which is already a sense limit, in time in spent in contemplation or intelligence or speed of cognition..but is is also, concurrently.... a test of physiological capacity, or hearing and hearing as tied to mind. Both components of the required equation are individual to the person and not universally the same. No, not by a huge and long shot. If they can’t step away or grow...or make the reach, and the situation is ongoing, for decades....... then one is forced to block them off from the conversation. Seriously. ~~~~~~ I’m aware of and state openly... that any comebacks to this post will be almost entirely, if not entirely ---- emotionally based and pedantic. I know this can be painful and there will be a backlash. It is akin to telling someone ’family member X is dead’. Painful truths of the mind, about the mind. There is no doubt in my mind that what has happened in the past on this forum, will happen again with this post. A post that is similar to what I’ve written before, and is as truthful and honest as those posts that came before. Where the insistent will ultimately ignore it, hate it even, and go right on fighting it in an effort to erase it from their mind.... as it can be painful, as realizations of the self can (e)go. Even if it is wholly true and correct. This cable question, as considered here, within the context of this thread and it’s intent... is a lesson of pain in psychology and it is not a question of science. Due to these being shared forums, the group of people who can look into the situation are ones who are fine with it all..and...also.. ones to are psychologically disarmed and emotionally excited by it. Excited into violence, projected and whatnot. In the prior world, with no forums, this happened off camera, off screen..so to speak, where it was handled in/as individual cases. Secret schools, and whatnot. Separate schools, separate speaking spaces and sharing spaces. And now, here... we run into the human problems of attempting inclusivity. Forums, forums for all. The price of that inclusivity is an argument that cannot and never will be quelled. Thus the idea of a separate forum area, where the discussion can happen unencumbered. And the rest can look in, and maybe, just maybe... look a bit beyond themselves. |
Yes! fortunetalely for me... Wronski is fascinating and very important thinker of this era... All Polish people must read it.... Or translating him... He is like all polish a dreamer but a very underestimated thinker, because his philosophy is mathematically expressed and his mathematic are philosophically presented... One of the greatest mathematician in the last century Banach think very greatly about him and wrote about him alas! for me in Polish only....And a word of Banach means something.... my deepest respect to you and to your ancestors... |
I am indeed, on my father's side. I am first generation American. Slovak on mother's side. Ah, Wronski. I have not read him extensively. I think you have an affinity for him Mon Ami because he always wrote in French! |
Are you polish thecarpathian and wsrrsw? The reason why i ask is because one of my favorite philosopher is a Polish genius completely underestimated in philosophy history... Jozef Maria Hoené Wronski... Do you know him? |
@wsrrsw , Thank you so much for posting that gorgeous mosaic from the land of my people, specifically the Tatras and Bieszczady mountain ranges.... |
Actually the dog. I've never had a dog that would turn down meat for bread, it's the weirdest thing I've ever seen.. Portuguese Sweet Bread.. Pumpkin Bread, Genger Bread, and Prune Cakes.. Good Molasses, good buttermilk, confectioner's pepper, fresh Mexican vanilla beans and local grown ginger. The prunes are from my prune/plum tree. Two 5 gallon buckest full of dried prunes. Time to feed the chickens.. Regards |
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Millers’ aground on the Straits of Simon....dabels’ heaving and hurling, neediing that bucket, however ducted....mahgisters’ waxed romantic...a fine fire found in a fuse finessed... Just another night nodding towards a sunny day....yes, draw the curtain on this, the coals of this fire have grown cold.... Keep thy tubes warm and your SS cool... Goodnight, sweet prints...;) |
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I can’t fathom why either, no how, no way. Stumped! I had a PrimaLuma HP using a fancy fuse and it never blew. My suspicion is that those amps are not known to push tubes hard. The Rogers amp pushes tubes hard and I sent my one back to the mothership to get modified for using the KT 170 tubes. I once asked the birth father about a fuse upgrade and he advised not to. (I purchased the Rogers "used" from him. Deals can be had.) Maybe don’t do it means just that? I'm squeamish about a 2x raise of fuse value for the amp as I’m sure that if a mishap occurred the lifetime warranty would be kaput.
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Where did i recommend to buy anything costing more than peanuts for audio experience? And i dont sell any product myself .... And my main advice is to look at Helmholtz acoustic method which is pure science... Then you are an .... or a liar... I restrict myself not to use the word idiot because you are probably not one ....Pick one that will suit you better...
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"But dont forget that poetry originate with the cristallized metaphor of each words in the gesturing expressing body and not only from the mouth... Poetry is ORAL experience FIRST, written poetry is a derivation..." YES YES and I am feeling all metaphysical and poetical.
There once was a snake oil purveyor Self labled an audio savior With electronic bits And phony wire kits This forum allows them to play here |
@dabel Tubes KT 170s |
