Adding a “safe haven” forum for discussion of tweaks?
I think we can all agree that threads about tweaks like fuses, stones, mats, power conditioners etc. stir up all kinds of controversy, conflict and ill will.
Short of banning discussion of these controversial topics, is there another solution to this problem?
I got this idea from teo_audio’s comments about a solution implemented at Canuck audio on another thread:
“Canuck audio tames it by having a cable and tweak area for threads. Where any counter to the idea that such things are functional (in attempt or in analysis), is not tolerated.
Meaning.. threads where people discuss tweaks, or mods or cables and so on, if a naysayer posts there, and interrupts the discussion, in any way, they get their posts deleted. And...if the given naysayer can’t hold their tongue, after said deletion-ish warnings..... they will, rapidly, via any repeats in behavior, find themselves banned from the forum. They have to grow up, or get lost.”
You may not like parts of his description, but I think the idea has real merit.
I propose a new “safe haven” sub-forum, with some special rules, for the discussion of tweaks. These rules would ONLY apply to this specific sub-forum, the current rules would continue as they are in all other areas.
The special rules would be along these lines:
Posts that categorically deny the possibility of tweaks having any effect or value are not allowed.
Posts proclaiming tweaks to be “scams” “cons” etc. are not allowed.
Posts that directly state, or imply, that another poster is lying, are not allowed.
Posts that make absolute negative statements like “Science proves it can’t work.” are not allowed.
Posts demanding measurements, controlled listening tests etc. are not allowed.
Posts that express skepticism (without making absolute negative statements), ask tough questions, or request more information are welcome.
Of course, some who hold the above opinions may object, but they would still be able to express those opinions in all other parts of the forum, just like they always have.
What do you think?
Where did i recommend to buy anything costing more than peanuts for audio experience? And i dont sell any product myself .... And my main advice is to look at Helmholtz acoustic method which is pure science... Then you are an .... or a liar... I restrict myself not to use the word idiot because you are probably not one ....Pick one that will suit you better...
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i understand your point... but i think that my post is related to this topic... If someone else think it is not related to the topic or off topic like you think, i will erase my post... My best to you....
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If someone own a perfectly controllled refine DSP system, like cindyment, for sure he will not need cable, fuses, or Schuman generators...Nor a complete grid of Helmholtz resonators fine tuned for the speakers...The ancestor of electronical DSP is mechanical Helmholtz equalization of a room....😊 I am pretty sure our friend cindyment know that... Because anybody who knows enough about DSP can reach a good S.Q. without that.... Myself i dont use DSP, i am not knowleadgeable in DSP and dont have the money to buy it, i used some homemade devices for controlling vibrations for example.... I used Helmholtz method in acoustic at peanuts costs... But i dont denigrate the power of DSP... It is ridiculous then to denigrate other ways... Like controlling acoustics or vibrations or even other controversials devices... The only important matter is that it is not money who give a good sound most of the times but experiments and ELEMENTARY science....At peanuts costs if we know what to do.... Then someone could be right with DSP control or like me with my homemade devices...It is useless to argue for one and denigrate the others... The more important truth is elementary science is enough....at low costs... i develop at no cost my own way to control mechanical,electrical,and acoustical embeddings of the system... The most powerful being Helmholtz method... is it better than DSP ? No... But it cost me NOTHING and it is so good all my 7 headphones sleep forever in a drawer... The truth of one sometimes dont contradict the truth of another because the world of possible experiences is so vast it can accomodate many perspectives...
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All Wronski mathematics and philosophy is created by an interpolation complex method using the polarities of being and knowledge in a hierarchy , these polarities correspond in their own way to the polarities chosen by Friston and called " Markov blanket"... Wronski was too much in advance on his time with his idea and paradoxically just too soon before the many mathematical revolution like Group theory, set theory and many others which will hide the deepnees of his idea behind an already moving swiftly mathematical revolution... Wronski anticipate Banach idea for example about functional analysis.... Banach said so not me.... |
His ideas are very simple and straightforward, but the way he used mathematical concepts to make these idea concrete tools is not simple at all though but not so much difficult than it seems at first sight... His idea to describe perception and action at all levels with the concept of " Markov Blanket" neutralizing then the DECEPTIVE ILLUSORY SEPARATION between all levels of life and lifting the wall between subject and object by a deep mathematization of the polarites between inside flowing of information and the outside flowing of action at all levels of living systems is a complete revolution... No materialism is possible and no solipsism .... It is a return to Spinoza and Goethe and Cassirer against nominalism against after that Descartes dualism, against Kant transcendental representation, against all materialist "naivete" that reign supreme in the last 2 centuries.... It is a return to the RELATION that makes all life only ONE net of beings in a hierarchical reflexion of integrating and interacting minds/body polarities levels organizations... That is my take on Friston... But trust me so great genius Friston is and he is, Goethe contains more ideas and all Friston concepts are in Goethe already...Only his particular mathematization of his polarities was Friston gift to Goethe... Take a look to Wolfgang Schad who use Goethe method to describe all mammals shapes details in a book about their articulate morphology in relation to the polarities between the three main physiological system : the polarity of nerve-sense and metabolic-limb systems and the mediating circulatory-respiratory system... The polarity of Friston about inflowing information and outflowing action are complementary choices of polarities in relation to the goethean Perspective...But the 2 approach are based on the ultimate interprenetrating polarities between outside and inside and subject and phenomena anyway.... Polarities in general being, not external dualities, but internal dynamic and/or reflecting an internal dynamic are not always bi-polar and could be multi-polar...They are reflected internal details or parts of the WHOLE manifested in symbolic forms polarities...Through what Friston called "Markov blanket".... Wolfgang Schad book: http://www.adonispress.org/threefoldness.php
My deepest respect to perhaps someone linked by blood line to the great philosopher and mathematician Hoené Wronski... 😊 |
Segregation by affinity choices may be working in Heaven where all is perfect... 😊 😁 or on some other audio forums... But we live on earth, and we are in Audiogon, a test field where we must learn to live TOGETHER when we can... Learning here is the road ... Stars could segregate themselves in an "apparent" perfection...But it is an illusion, even stars encounters other than themselves and learn... Then i try like star to shine on everyone and not segregate between my fellow stars human beings...For sure i prefer some over others, but politeness and communication is the key.... I dont believe nor wait for others to change i have the job to change myself first....
We are like trees which never chose the ground where they are growing and our body is not for us our choice at birth, we are born with it, nor our actual mind is only our choice, we are born with a mind-set of our own, specific, we must learn to make all that our own freeing choices in life...What exist is not FREEDOM but the freeing gesture...The road exist only the way you walk all along it with the shoes you have at the beginning....
But there is hope for humanity in reformation yes... It is coming now... Materialism is DEAD... IDOLS are dead like was saying Nietzsche ... But the actual new vocabulary concepts of a new humanity emerge right now in science and in psychology, in religions ... This new concepts are complex and completely new... In a word for me we go from an external relation to Nature to an intrernal one... Humanity dont use duality now so much but POLARITY...IT BEGINS... It is no more the motto "distinguising to unite" but the motto "distinguishing without separating"... Reform dont need segregation...A new vision dont change phenomenon location so much than the eye of the seer.... And the language of polarities mirror the dynamic working inside and outside the body in ONE FREEING COSMIC GESTURE....
What i called polarities in the Goethe tradition, Friston called them "Markov blanket"...It is a mathematical concept at the heart of his vision.... Karl Friston is one of the geniuses who will change science and who has already done so.......I give it as an example, i know many others... But this one is striking and very powerful genius able to change all biology fields and A.I. He had already...It is not news yet for all to know thats all.... ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW0JnjgCO3o&t=15s
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Like i already said we speak of "tweaks" sometimes by ignorance about the method to implement an audio system in its rightfully controlled 3 working dimensions... A tribal isolation of audiophile using matters of interest to each one "in a safe haven " to separate them from each other differences will make this audiogon with no more appeal for many.... i dont come here to speak only about audio, my system is finished and i dont need to upgrade anyway, i come to speak with friends and to speak about the music i listen to... I also tried to create a thread about "seeing sound and music" which would be my thinking about acoustic in the philosophical sense, not tweaks about audio so much, but ideas and perceptions linked to sound and music vision...About acoustic feelings and acoustic perception...
I discovered why i was a bad musician , i lived all my life more used to perceive rythm and harmony than melody, with not much melodical memory but an increase power to perceive forms and dynamical shapes linked to block of chords more than to melodical line... My attention to music is related to spatialization by timing of some chords which appear isolated in my attention window like a geometrical form moving, a surface speaking to me like a human face...This explain why while many listened to beatles in 1964 i was myself immersed in ancient choral music to perceive these moving forms and speaking faces... That explain my difficulty to sing correctly...No musical "ears"...No melody memory so much but a way to make sound visible to my internal "eye"...Probably it is the reason i dreamed to own a high end audio system for all my life...I succeed only very recently with no money invested... My goal now is to create a philosophical adventure on this acoustical road and reformulate all philosophical history through multiple "tags" which punctuated our notion of what a sound and what a musical sound means in the last 2 millenia...and why? Each tag would be also a revelation of the conscious soul history through the way evolve his sound attention and perception....
Sound is feeling and meaning in one..... Meaning is too vast notion to be only a sign, the new philosophy is related to the POLARITY of meaning and sign...Meaning generate sign and die in sign... The new phisosophy will be a Goethean semiotic not a Peircean one... Peirce war ferociously against nominalism all his life without knowing that his conception reducing meaning to sign was an ultimate nominalist residual attempt and stance ...Goethe semiotic by contrast is non nominalist... Because the morphogenesis of sound event is related to a perceived polarity and a genetical insecable polarity which resonate with our internal polarities ...Object and subject BECOME and DIE together... the environment is part of your body and your body part of the environment... There is no way to STAY external observer.... Friston called these polarities "Markov maps" using the theory of a great Russian mathematician... Karl Friston is my new mentor toward a complete new revolution in science...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIu_dJGyIQI&list=PLnQJF3Qi_4_CGFyisehOpLvbpDhdIe_ld&index=169&t=95s |
Interesting jazz album by the way thanks...
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Yes! fortunetalely for me... Wronski is fascinating and very important thinker of this era... All Polish people must read it.... Or translating him... He is like all polish a dreamer but a very underestimated thinker, because his philosophy is mathematically expressed and his mathematic are philosophically presented... One of the greatest mathematician in the last century Banach think very greatly about him and wrote about him alas! for me in Polish only....And a word of Banach means something.... my deepest respect to you and to your ancestors... |
Are you polish thecarpathian and wsrrsw? The reason why i ask is because one of my favorite philosopher is a Polish genius completely underestimated in philosophy history... Jozef Maria Hoené Wronski... Do you know him? |
Good point! and good metaphor! But dont forget that poetry originate with the cristallized metaphor of each words in the gesturing expressing body and not only from the mouth... Poetry is ORAL experience FIRST, written poetry is a derivation... I will stop here... We must study much the deep transformation of men from oral culture to written one and after that to alphabetic revolution...The print revolution come only after these 2 older and deep revolutions... A.I. is only a small derivation of the first revolution: from oral to written world... We think A.I. is a Big revolution in itself and not only a consequence...But it is only a consequence...
In the same way the representation we have of the music experience go on the same road and reveal itself in the same way though the same revolutions than language ... It is so because history of consciousness manifested in any fields partake to consciousness itself....The way we spoke about something, willing it or not, participate of the thing itself in a negative or positive way at the same time...It is always relative to a chosen partial perspective... |
There is a "truth " in this claim... But it lack from this claim the other creative part which reveal poetry is not merely just an escape of reality but a creative way to reclaim it on higher grounds...
Poets co-create the "whole" reality, many scientist will only peer into in "parts"....
Save some great scientist like Goethe or DaVinci or Kepler...Or the unknown Newton, alchemist and biblical scholar with his complete works in latin most of it unstranslated in English...Swedenborg is bashed nowadays as a mystic, a poet, but he was on par in Science knowledge with any geniuses of his times and was the main scientific scholar of his country in almost all fields which matter for the state and the Swedish Queen... Think about that...Anyway language mechanisms itself when gauged are so complex and deep, like an unconscious thinking preparing the ways for consciousness to speak of itself, so much so for me that one of the greatest experience in my life was a beginning of understandiing of grammars and metaphors... On par with number theory and geometry and music and acoustic for me in pure potential ectasy ...Goethe wrote about colors and plants and animals morphology with the same look which come from him to me... Very few people are conscious of the deep "grammar" powerful expressive and discursive mechanisms revealed through thought process and expression ...Most people dont know that language simultaneously work on 2 levels polarly synchronized in long term history time and at the level on micro seconds time in the brain...Level one is the prosaic surface level where words are put into a sentence, second level is the "poetic" deep level where words itself are created... Poetry is like number theory; no sane person pretend to "understand it " save Ramanujan,Grothendieck and Archimedes, all poets and mystics or supreme artist...For poetry we must ask Shakespeare or Goethe or Rumi who else? Without vision renewed, there is no understanding, only an hallucinative habit call "everyday life"...Which we may sometimes escape with " bad" poetry or worst "virtual reality" A.I. I will stop here....
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Wow! thanks jpwarren58 ... The best poem is yours....😊 It remind me of the Great Jean de la Fontaine, one of the greatest observer of humanity in his century....I love him a lot....His book is one of those book you read at ten years and read at 70 years old with the same freshness... Truth is always a breeze nourrishing all that exist...
My best to you and deepest respect.... |
Thanks for the offer... But i dont like gang, even gang of two, ask my wife...😁😊 I always lived in my house without close neighbours, and i dont had a boss for almost all my life, in school, i befriend only the fools or the geniuses, and i am sick when i am in a crowd...I think i must be out of any institute to be healthy..... Sorry....
My best to you indeed....
P.S. i know very little about audio compared to many here, but the few things i know i experimented them myself...They are ONLY three basic essential embeddings... Nothing more...It is not engineering, not even refine acoustic science...Only basics...But basics are almost out of audio threads... A newcomer with no clue about a method of listenings experiments will look instead for the next upgrade, insatisfied sometimes a life long.... I am not a member of any institute because i am not worthy of one ... I dont pretend to know much in audio, just enough to be happy now.... Then i spoke about my simplistic but efficient method to answer a need... To spare people money.... |
This proposition about "tweaks" "safe haven" reflect one of the reason why i called my homemade "tweaks", instead of the word "tweaks": «audio system three embeddings set of controls»... Because my homemade "tweaks" suggested to me a method of listenings experiments... We may segregate tweaks or bashing them, one by one, we cannot segregate a method...We dont need a safe haven for a method but to argue rationally about it... Tweaks are not a method,but debatable more or less "useful" devices...They are perceived erroneously like secondary additions because they are counted separately of each others...No method... A method must adress all the thee working dimensions of an audio system...Mechanical,electrical and acoustical...It is not a secondary addition... A method is the primary factor for ANY gear at ANY price...
It is difficult to contradict this method...It is easy to verify but it takes time for the listening experiments...People throw more easily money than their own precious time...I am retired....😁😊 We could oppose to the relative efficiency of some specific "devices" i suggested in my thread but not to my method and his conclusion: Dont upgrade it ever, BEFORE trying to rightfully embed your piece of gear...
I will also try poetry to convey my feeling:
My gear and my body are one, And the music i have seen, comes from my heart/room alone Dont try to part the milk from the cream
«Your poetry is so much better than your prose that perhaps your prose is only bad poetry»-Groucho Marx 🤓 |
I am ferociously against censorship...(save extreme exceptional case)
Gang of identical cloned mind people, of any kind, annoy me more than some trolls.... "Tweakers" or "anti-tweakers" ressemble sometimes each other too much in beliefs...I prefer specific debates in complex matter like audio... By the way it is in a long debate for more than a month with someone some disparaged to be a troll here, that i learned the much in my 7 years of experiments.... Thanks to him, even if i was completely in the other side of the trench i worked a lot to understand "timbre" debating with him... We are not children around a table waiting to be moderated... Are you? I am not....
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