Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD

Matt, you're such a tease! ;~) No need to apologize, all of your effort to share your impressions on this thread is greatly appreciated. We'll look forward to further updates as your schedule permits, thanks!

Hi guys

My recommendation for a world class dac would be the Mola Mola designed by Bruno Putzeys from the ground up using their own discrete dac chip. The claim is that the design totally isolates jitter. 

The dac is only available at this time incorporated into their preamp. Sometime early next year a stand alone version will be available. Cost including the preamp is £11,000. The preamp can also come with a phono stage if required as an optional extra.

Mola has been touting their stand alone DAC for well over a year and yet it still doesn't exist. Their engineering skills are very well documented but they seem to have some issues delivering a finished product to the marketplace.

Hi lalitk, concerning MQA. Do you like MQA, then? Some very well respected designers I know do not regard it with any seriousness. To them it's more of a commercial exploit. What's your take on it? Roon, is another matter and is being taken up by designers I respect.

Instead of MQA , perhaps what is needed is a better A to D at the recording stage?

Hi bill k, Mola Mola are very thorough and won't release a product until they are satisfied they have the best outcome.  The dac in the preamp is brilliant and I'm expecting the stand alone dac will sound just as good. I don't believe there will be a great price difference between the stand alone dac and the pre/dac.

Guys there is a very good thread or two on Computer Audiophile about MQA.  Charlie Hansen who owns Ayre and some big time reviewers on the threads and it's not pretty regarding MQA.  A lot of it is stuff I've heard in the past and may put me in the camp of not wanting MQA or at least caring about having it or not.  Charlie's design basically does what the first unfold is doing sound wise, without losing any bits.  Just over my head, but great read for sure.  

@toetapaudio,

Thanks for sharing the articles but they are somewhat outdated. Lot has changed in last one year.  There is lot more MQA albums now available on Tidal. As some of us already pointed out, MQA albums do sound better than their 16bit counterparts. 

The future of high-rez streaming looks very promising. Most of us don't wanna pay $15-$25 per high rez download.  

HDTracks recently announced High Rez streaming in very near future. 

There are many who know that MQA is lossy :

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30381-mqa-is-vaporware/?tab=comments#comment-613530

This is is why some of the best dac designers will not include MQA.

Toetapaudio (love the username!)

The implementation of MQA is fascinating. And the point made about MQA developing a stronghold on the audio/music industry is even more fascinating; and a precedent has been set with Apple in that regards. I understand Schiit's points and respect some of them. Truth be told, it's a short lived technology (ten years or less) as our capacity to stream and transmit higher and higher bit rates become available. The first article questions the tech, but most agree that MQA offers a better quality reproduction than streamed 16/44 and it's certainly better then MP3; so for right now it's a great technology to augment SQ in streamed music; which we audiophiles want and identify as having monetary value. 

To be honest, I think it's a great invention and should be adopted universally by MQA loosening their valuation of its licensing. It would allow the music industry to implement it more universally and the manufacturing industry to incorporate it more affordable. But that's not the route MQA has chosen. 

I would like MQA in my portable solutions. I don't really care if it's in my high end solutions. And I think most audiophiles will have the same attitude. My high end DAC purchase has been unaffected by the existence of MQA. Would I like to see it in my DAC? Sure. But it's absolutely in no way affecting my purchase decision. But as I said, when I buy a DAP I'd like to get one with MQA. Although I don't think my new portable Chord Hugo2 does MQA nor do I think my iPhones Tidal outputs MQA at this time. I'm not even sure if Androids Tidal (ie. any Android DAP) outputs MQA yet. I think it may only be available on desktop Tidal. Please correct me as I may very well be wrong on that point. 

Someone came up with a better way. Let's see if their method to market, and market demand, will eventually allow that better way to thrive or die. I don't think the average listener (not we audiophiles) gives a flying frisbee if their sound quality gets any better then whatever comes out of their iPhone while listening to their Beats Solo headphones. I mean, these people love their MP3's and don't see the need for better! Either way, there will be no need for MQA in a few years as streaming bitrate channels widen and allow 384k audio and 4K video streaming without obstruction. 

Good times!!!!

@mattnshilp 

Great post (thank you)! IMO, MQA has opened the flood gate on possibilities of higher bit rate streaming. 

Here's to good times 🍻

BTW, LG V30 smartphone will be the first to stream MQA playback. 

"The LG V series is a premium flagship smartphone line designed to provide users with the highest multi-media capabilities and purest audio experience. MQA’s award-winning technology captures and reproduces the sound of the original studio master in a file that’s small enough to stream. The LG V30 handset features integrated MQA playback technology so that master quality sound recordings can be played back via the mobile device".

Teaser:

I have completed my evaluation of the Lumin S1 server/DAC (using both its internal DAC as well as its spdif output to my Davinci 2 DAC) and just plugged in and started burning in a Melco N1ZH/2 music server. I will give it a solid week of burn in and audition/compare next Wednesday.

I have a 32 core MP64-32 Memory Player ($55k retail) server on order and that will be coming in about 4-6 weeks would be my guess. Possibly sooner. I'm dying to hear that!!!!

Also, I have arranged for an audition/trial of the mighty Boulder 2120 ($65k retail) server/DAC. I'm giddy like a school girl for that to arrive as well!!!

Al from SGM has promised me an audition that will knock my socks off. I'd like to absorb and report all that I mentioned above before taking Al's time; I'm thinking December or January. He's shown me some other cool little affordable grounding trinkets that might be worth trying as well.

Not enough time in the day my friends!!!

Stay tuned!

PS - Yes the Davinci hath arrived. It's got about 500 hours on it. I'll compare it to my cherished ODSX when it reaches a 1000 hours. In the meantime, Steve from Empirical Audio emailed me asking to send back my ODSX for further upgrades that he just came out with and were significant enough that he wanted to implement them into my ODSX. It was shipped out last week and will arrive today.

As a side note, I just put together a "little" office system consisting of a Constellation Centaur stereo amp and Virgo 2 preamp with Focal Sopra #2 speakers. I also bought a pair of Scansonic 5.0 speakers from Larry of Distinctive Stereo (before I found the deal of the century on these Sopra #2's). Although the price is fairly different, I will compare both to see which suits the equipment and the room better. I also need to decide what source I'll be using. Will I go for a server/DAC like the Lumin S1 or A20? Or go crazy and do a server and transition my prized ODSX to the office?!? Don't know yet. Lots of listening to do to decide what's best for that system ....

cheers!!!

"Al from SGM has promised me an audition that will knock my socks off. I'd like to absorb and report all that I mentioned above before taking Al's time; I'm thinking December or January. He's shown me some other cool little affordable grounding trinkets that might be worth trying as well."

Matt,
Ah, I think I said I did not want to over promise and nothing about your socks...or mine, lol. So keep your hose on, lol.
But I did say that we are very excited about some testing underway and if it all pans out like we expect then yea.
But I am sure you will enjoy what you experience once you hear the SGM.

Hmm, "affordable grounding trinkets". Well since one version has silver and gold in it "trinkets" might be too much of a misnomer seeing how "trinkets" are not made of precious metals, lol.

Matt, as soon as you have the time I should drop off some more of the Setchi grounding blocks for you to add to your system. If I can help it I plan on NOT removing the ones in my system. I have one on my SGM and one on my T+A DAC 8 DSD. Just those two made a significant difference. I did not expect that degree of improvement.
I just started to try a pair on my Merrill Audio Veritas Amps.

Well, enough of me. 

Alfonse Mirabella
Ambassador, Sound Galleries & Taiko Audio
Sound Test USA
soundtest.info
al.mirabella@soundtest.info

@hifial 

Al, Would you mind sharing bit more info on Setchi D-1 grounding blocks? Try to google them but didn't find any info on their merits. 

Thank you! 

Now that I have a hard wired, fast ethernet connection in the room, I'm going to set up the optical isolation and go from there.  I may try the ground units Al has brought up also.  I'm not sure what ethernet cables I'll be using though. I have loved the AQ diamond in the past and even the Vodka has been fine, but I was also told to get a top cat 8 cable.  I don't believe the AQ cables are Cat 8.  Not sure who makes cat 8 for the high end.  

I also notice that Ayre has my QX5/20 available with various inputs. I have the full assault with 10 inputs, but you can now get it with or without the USB and or ethernet or anyway you want or need it. Very interesting marketing.  I wonder if others will do the same??? 

Melco is supposed to have their own software being worked on.  I have reached out to a head engineer there to find out more about the future of their software and other things. I'll report back when he gets back in the lab in the next week or two.  

Seems like IRT servers that so much is going on.  Maybe even more so than what DAC's went though and still do.  Hard to keep up.  

@lalitk 

Sorry for the delay in answering your questions but I have been with family that have been visiting and today I was at a presentation by Thomas Fine, son of Robert and Wilma Fine, the legendary recording engineers of The Mercury Living Presence albums. This was arranged by the New Jersey Audiophile Society for one of our Club Meetings. 

WOW! What a presentation. If you ever have the chance DO NOT MISS THIS ONE! Tom is a very gracious person and willing to answer all our questions. Close to a three hour presentation!  Slides and some excerpts of the original and remastered music. 

Now I will try answer your questions about the Setchi and give you some information, as best as I can. 

I am offering an opportunity to home demo the new Setchi Grounding Blocks by Taiko Audio. They are so new we do not even have them up on our web site yet, lol. Seriously.
Though we have been selling them overseas for a month or two.

I have tried MANY grounding devises over the years and I must say these are exceptional for the price vs performance value.

At first I was highly skeptical of them even though my associates reassured me of their performance. As I said, I have tried many others over the years. But with the Setchi I was WRONG! 

I have a Setchi D1 on my SGM Music Server and a Setchi D2 on my T+A DAC 8 DSD. If I had a separate preamp I would put one on that too but right now (Preamp in my future) I use the analog Preamp in the T+A. 

Order of importance in placement of Setchi in a system. 

1) Server

2) Source (DAC, CD player)

3) Preamp

4) AMP/s

5) Power conditioner

6) ETC ( some costumers overseas connect a Setchi to their electric service panel)

In my system just one made a significant difference and was highly noticeable. But TWO just brought it home! 

The improvements were overall. Much better dynamics, tone, air, sound stage, harmonics and I could go on. I must say that I don't want to describe too much of what the very worthwhile improvements were. You really need to hear it for yourself. Caveat, each system could be slightly different as it is system dependent to a point.
So You really need to demo in your own system.

What are the Setchi? Well I will do my best to explain.

The case of the Setchi is made of Panzerholz aka Tank Wood. This was no accident. We chose this for several reasons. The least of which is not for the improvement in sound it brings. 

Inside there is a replaceable (9v - every two years) battery, more on this below. 
Also inside there is either copper or gold/silver depending on the model. More below. 

The Setchi comes in two types, a D for digital connection/equipment or an A for analog connection/equipment. 

Then there are two versions within the types.

Copper or a number 1 designation. A1 / D1. 

Gold/Silver or a number 2 designation. A2 / D2. 

Depending on what equipment the Setchi will be connected to dictates the connection you will need. All Setchi come with a high quality connector, ie RCA, USB etc. See bottom two photos at the AudioStream link. These were at the Munich Show. 
https://www.audiostream.com/content/sound-galleries-experience

But what does the Setchi do? That is a great question but for me not a easy answer as I am not an engineer. 

What I can tell you its not a regular ground-tweak but more of a ground-plane harmonics harmonizer. As in it counters / reduces / absorbs harmful harmonics being dumped on the ground-plane by almost everything drawing current from the network, not only your high-end equipment but every appliance in your house and even your neighborhood. It`s powered by, or rather harvest its power from absorbing ambient vibrations, the battery is only for biasing its dielectrics which increases its efficiency and keeps it from saturating (which is a weakness of other "ground" tweaks). This is not voodoo but real science.

The prices are as follows. Pricing is in Euros due to the fact that all orders are processed overseas. I place your order and it is processed and shipped from The Netherlands. 

A1 and D1 (copper)are Euros 200 (currently $240) plus shipping.

A2 and D2 (gold/silver) are Euros 300 (currently $360) plus shipping.

Now because the way the Setchi works it MUST be PLACED ON TOP of any EQUIPMENT it is connected to. It can be placed on its side vs placed flat (there is a slight difference in sound one vs the other). 

While the quality of the cable and its length is optimized for absolute performance, you can order a longer length cable with just a slight loss in performance. 

Once connected to your equipment it will take several hours before the Setchi begins to sound really good. After about a day it will reach about 80%. Then over three+ days  it will continue to improve and reach 100%.

If Setchi is removed, the equipment it was attached to will SLOWLY revert back to its previous state in performance. So A / B ing is nearly impossible. 

OK, I think I covered it all. Please feel free to ask me any questions. 

Cheers, Al.

Alfonse Mirabella
Ambassador for Sound Galleries and Taiko Audio

Sound Test USA
al.mirabella@soundtest.info

@ctsooner 
Peter, IIRC the only audiophile cat8 cable is made by Wiredworld. 
It is supposed be special. It comes in three levels I believe. 
Though not sure if you would need it with the optical isolation. Also many of us are using Ethernet isolators and find they work as good or better as the optical. Just some food for thought. There is a thread on Computer Audiophile about it. 

Al, thanks.  Yes you told me about the isolators.  I just remember reading on CA in a thread that the optical isolation is better, but I'm more than willing to try the isolators as they only cost about 65 or so if I recall.  

Yes, I thought WW sold the cat 8.  My dealer in NJ, Audio Connections sells those, so I'll ask him to get me one and I'll check it out.  At this point I may as well.  Do you have a link to the CA thread Al?  That would help all of us as I know many are lurking on this thread still (they send me emails etc.., lol).  

I'd love to speak with you off line about the grounding devices as I too have interest in checking them out.  Looking forward.  Thanks.

Thanks Pete

So, have we decided on a top tier dac yet or is this a perpetual thing? Is there at least a top 10 list created w/ summarized reviews to help potential buyers?

Yes, Pete we need to catch up. 

As far the difference in the two types of isolators it depends on several things. 
Who you ask, which ones you use/try, how much hassle vs difference in performance you might get. At one time the optical was more expensive. Not so sure now. People who I trust feel that from their experience the none optical ones work just as good if using the right ones. Of course who knows what might be introduced in a few years if at all. 
When I get the chance I will post a link to the CA thread. 

NiteWulf - I’m currently on a Light Harmonic Davinci 2. It arrived about a month ago and I’m still burning it in. I also am getting my old standby ODSX back from Maestro Steve for an update he just implemented that supposedly has made a significant improvement. Can’t wait to hear that!

So yes, and no. I’m also trying to audition some other DACS including a possible auditon of a Merging Technologies Merging+Player and a Boulder 2120. As well as a TotalDAC Twelve full complement of French DAC awesomeness.

As far as a summary goes, sorry. Its 72 pages of wandering and rambling. But all good stuff and worth skimming through. Hope that helps. PM me for specific questions. Happy to help.

Matt, I"m sure we will talk later today, but it's now time to introduce the Brinkmann Nyquist.  As you know, I loved this DAC the first time I heard it. It was possibly the most pleasing DAC I've head to date.  I'm not sure if it was the most resolving as it was with 50k Wilson's that to me lack detail.  That said, it was very impressive. I got the same response from someone in the industry who isn't the biggest fan of digital.  

What I've found with most any piece of great gear, you can't always tell about how much micro and macro detail you get in the first audition.  That's why I'd love to get one in my room to compare it to my Ayre QX5/20.  I'm also not so sure that these DAC's aren't in the conversation with TotalDAC and the Rossini and some others.  It's not always about price IRT any component.  I've found that too many are priced for the Asian markets (Matt and I always talk about this) and are double priced for the US market and then are HEAVILY discounted making folks think they got this great deal, when in fact if they'd have listened, they weren't.  That business model also devalues said products in the US for those of you who buy and sell often.  

I think the Brinkman costs 14k.  You can listen to it all day long and it was one of the most relaxed digital presentations I"ve ever heard. I just didn't love the system I was listening to, but I was highly familiar with it.  If it had more detail, I would have been loving it.  I think it's time to get the Ayre and Brinkman in (oh the Brinkman was connected to teh Aurender N10. I don't know which USB that they were using. 

@mattnshilp , thanks. Currently I am in the market for a R2R ladder dac, specifically Metrum Pavane level 3. Have you tried that? 

nitewulf, I own a Metrum Pavane Level 3 and I think it sounds great in my system.  This thread is typically devoted to the significantly more expensive DACs Matt is auditioning.

Right, but I am not sure a 40K delta sigma dac using off the shelf chips would necessarily compete with a well made r2r dac, which may be "only" 10K. Basically I am not sure the price is a huge part of this equation, rather designer skill and build quality, surely? Else, one can just buy a DCS or MSB stack and be done with it.

Price can be everything, or nothing. (Oooh, that's deep!)

I don't judge a DAC on price or chip design. I believe that there are good delta Sigma DAC's and bad R2R's. It's the implementation, not the parts that make a DAC good, bad or great.

Most of the DAC's I considered where between $6500 and $14,000. I pushed up my audition prices more recently as my ODSX kept beating everything in that first price bracket. 

Some swear by the Emm Labs DAC2X. Others believe the Lampizator Golden Gate is it. Ayre, Merging Technologies, Playback Design, the new Bribkman, etc. All great. 

Dont discount system matching either. It's super important. 

All that said, Metrum has a great reputation but I am not familiar with it. Apologies. 

Hello

I have Metrum Pavane with Manley Shrimp (siemens NOS 60s tubes) pre and Audia Flight 100 amp. I got from a friend of mine Metrum Adagio just to test whether its better to go diectly from DAC with pre to amp. Probably i have an option to get Adagio by selling my Pavane, since my friend went to full AN system.

My observation (1 evening) tests that Adagio (comparing to Pavane/Tube Manley Shrimp) provides a lot more details, refines and cleanes the sound give more inside into layers and depth of the music. Is it hi-end sound? yes! do I like it? i ddidnt decide yet.

But in the same time I lost some tube magic and impact (guitar strings no more hit my body) and the bass is no more so scaled and full. No oomph at all.

I also find some mismatch of Adagio and Audia Flight.. i need to set vol knob to 12-13 to get the level of 8-9 of Manley Pre.. May be its not my cup of tea?

So my question is whether Adagio pre is so good? did anybody find the solution (pre) which is better that Adagio pre? I would have best of two worlds (adagio resolution and deatails) and tube pre body and impact

Thank you

Nitewullf 

There are two dacs which are awesome in that price range. 

One is the awesome T+A Dac 8DSD which for $4,200.00 is just plain outstanding, I know it is not a ladder dac but nonethess wow if you feed it via a computer with upsampled pcm to DSD 256 or 512 it produces a holographic, totally musica sound. 

This is the dac that we use most of the time when demoing our Legacy Signatures that you so love. 

The other is the Aqua Hifi Lasca  which we have a Demo that would make the piece affordable and that is a Ladder Dac, and it is also upgradable via replaceable boards.

The Aqua gear is just exceptionally musical and is very involving, with a liquid midrange as the La Scala uses tubes, the fact that Aqua offers up grades and is an evolving platform to me would make that dac very interesting compared to the Metrum which does make nice sounding musical products. http://www.aquahifi.com/la_scala.html


http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/06/next-level-aqua-hifi-formula-la-scala-mkii-w-telefunken/

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/aqua/1.html

Dave owner 
Audio Doctor

I have not heard the LaScala or the T&A, but both have great reputations. The Playback Designs Merlot is certainly worth hearing as well. 

And as long as DSD is not needed, the Empirical Overdrive SE is outrageously good!!! 

On the cheap end of Wow is the Axogal Comet and Chord Hugo 2/Hugo TT.

I chose to avoid tubes DAC's for my search, but they may be up your alley as well.

Find a few dealers you trust and spend a lot of time listening. It will pay off in the end. 

Matt, the Comet is from Exogal (formerly known as Wadia), and AQUA's top DAC, The Formula is SS w/o any valves.

Peter, here are a few links for worthwhile choices of Ethernet Isolators that are not optical. I am still trying to find the thread on CA but I am still looking for the right one. So this will have to make do for now. 

http://www.emosystems.com/product/en-70e-ultra-compact-network-isolator/

http://industrialcomponent.com/baaske/mi1005.html

http://www.artistic-fidelity.de/index.php/en/giso-isolator

Some me of us like the Emo best and others like either of the other two. 

Of course this is not an exhaustive list but these are the most respected and popular ones. 

You would put put one of these just before the server. 

I hope this helps. 

I owned the Adagio and have had the LaScala here in my system for an audition.  I agree with gibalok about the Adagio, which I found to be very clean and resolving but with a bit less body and tonal density than I enjoyed from my Level 1 Pavane.  I could tell the Adagio was more resolving than my Level 1 Pavane but after sending my Pavane in for the upgrade, I found the Level 3 Pavane to be more to my liking than the Adagio since it was close in resolution and IMO displayed superior body and tonal density.  I have a very high quality unity-gain, buffered preamp so do not need or want to go direct from the DAC to my amps.  I could live with the Adagio, but preferred the Level 3 Pavane, even when I compared them by running both through my preamp.
I preferred the Level 1 Pavane to the LaScala although that opinion may be in the minority.  I would definitely prefer the Level 3 Pavane to the LaScala.  I have not heard Aqua's Formula but would like to.

Mitch2, thank you for your input.
lived one day more with Adagio and then switched to Pavane/Shrimp - so the sound become dull, fat and significantly less resolving. It seams that it is no way back with Pavane/Shrimp.

Also the dynamic range and the range from quiet sound and lound sound with Adagio become 2x wider. For me it means it brings more emotions to the music as it was designed by sound engineer. The same as you are in cinema with good equipemnt then the movie has wide dynamic range. Its not the same as you watch just TV. So if Pavane/Shrimp plays in 3-7 whereas Adagio can provide 1-10. (1-10 some scale of sound loudness)

Also nobody burned properly XLR outputs from Adagio and XLR inputs in my Flight 100 amp. It imporoved significantly comparing to day 1.

But in the same time I understand that better preamp + Pavane level 1 (and level 3 of cause) can easily touch Adagio but it needs approx 2x more investments (hopefully i can spend 1-1,5k to get Adagio after selling Pavane). IMO

Some more observation. That Adagio in sound signature is more like good Dual mono AKM 4399 DAC than Pavane R2R. So on this level i can hardly say that R2R sounds different that good Delta Sigma. Borders became less obvious.

What buffered preamp you are reffering to?

Thank you

Mitch2 which version of the La Scala did you have Version 1 or Version 2? 

audiotroy, I auditioned the Aqua Hifi La Scala MKII, but not the recent Optologic version.

gibalok, my pre was custom made by SMc Audio - Steve McCormack, and is very close to his VRE-1.  It is a unity-gain, buffered preamp with the VRE-1 outboard choke power supply, a Shallco volume control with AN Tantalum resisters, and Lundahl output transformers that are wound with Cardas copper wire.

For more about the Metrum DACs, I suggest reading Srajan's 6moons reviews all the way through the March 2017 Adagio review and his comparison of that DAC to the COS, LaScala, and Formula DACs.

What about other dacs with pre
ayre? Rockna?

Mitch2 thanks. The Aqua La Scala is exceptionally musical with big images and a warm rich punchy sound.

The Mk 2 Optilogic is supposed to extend the treble detail and increase the openess and sound staging while still retaining the overall superb quality of the La Scala. 

We are selling our Lascala to move to a Formula, so if you know of anyone looking for a great dac driven by a little old audiophile to listen to Gregorian chants on Sundays let me know.

Dave owner
Audio Doctor NJ

Thanks Mitch2, great stuff right there. And thanks Dave, for always adding just the correct amount of dealer input and offer without overdoing it! It's great having enthusiasts, dealers and manufacturers all here to add and help this thread to progress and grow. 

Update time!

Lumin S1 and Melco N1ZH/2 servers compared to Aurender N10. The sneak peak at the end reads that the N10 is still the champ.

Heres the skinny:

Lumin S1 - sexy, heavy, built like a fine Swiss Watch! Separate dedicated LPS built equally well. I didn’t like the extended shroud over the back plugs; but if it was living long term with me, and rarely accessed, it wouldn’t be an issue. If it’s sitting out or in a top shelf of a rack, it’s a nice touch aesthetically; otherwise it’s sort of useless. Sound wise? It’s punchy, lively and energetic. The bass is deep but lacks coherence and the midrange and treble lacked layered detail and that proper sense of instrument texture. It was listenable and not unpleasant, but didn’t convey a listening experience that conveyed me into the recording studio or concert hall. Although not Hi-Fi, it was not conducive to being lost in the music the way that other servers I have heard were. I see a tube system with a warmer tonal signature mellowing it’s flavor and making it more palatable to long term listening and a permanent home. I sold my S1. The N10 did everything better, top to bottom. Inside and out. From depth and width of soundstage, leading and trailing edges, dynamic presence, harmonic structure, layering, etc. Just better, much better. That all said, I like the Lumin software and Tidal search features better then the Aurender software. It worked. Period. Every time I turned it on it just worked. No quirks. No issues. Like the Aurender. Rock solid stable. The only 2 so far that are rock solid stable.

Melco N1ZH/2 - Not as well built as the S1 or the Aurender; think Seiko vs Vacherone Constantine or Piaget. No native software app (yet), no Roon compatibility, just upnp compatible. I used the Arcam control software App as others couldn’t find the server and DAC and make them work together. Quirky. Once I got everything to sync I was afraid to change anything. Sound wise it’s simple to sum up (and I give my friend Merrill of Merrill Audio the credit for the summary) - it doesn’t do anything wrong. It’s not offensive. It’s presentation is proper, staging is enjoyable and overall sense of music and aire is correct; it’s just missing information. It simply doesn’t extract it all; or my system is SO resolving I can hear it more easily. It’s not a noise floor thing (or maybe it is). In El Tren Del Quinto, there is a hollow echo clearly evident in the room on the N10 that gives the room presence and realism; it’s not sound really, it’s the hollow echo of an open church when no sound is happening. The N10 captures this. The Melco misses it. It’s a terrific product for its cost, and it’s doesn’t need to apologize for all the things it does right. But i don’t think it knows what it doesn’t do; because it doesn’t hear what it’s missing. As a required caveat, I have to say that the Melco offers a feature that will eventually be offered on every server- a direct Ethernet out specifically designed to plug directly into an Ethernet input DAC without running through a switch. I would imagine this would be its best output, and is probably the best digital path from server to DAC other then I2S. I don’t have a DAC with an Ethernet out. I’d love to compare the USB out to that dedicated Ethernet output. THAT would be a great comparison and very helpful for everyone here.

That is all currrntly. So the N10 is still here.

Next up, I believe, is the Memory Player, and the Baetis if I can find time to get Dave over here with it. The mighty Boulder will be coming after RMAF!! Can’t wait for that!!!

Take care all.

Before final deceision between Adagio and Pavane level 1 I put it directly to my Manley Shrimp preamp. And finally Adagio has less body and impact tham pavane level. So Manley Shrimp giving some tube character doesn't affect the initial impact and body. If it is here the Shrimp - will give, if there is no, shrimp will not give that.  Audia Flight 100 is fully transparent - it provides what you give. 

Finally pavan level 1 in more engaging for me.. its more musical despite doesnt give a minute details and leayer as adagio. But gives more full mids and impact.

I Will stay with Pavane despite i liked Adagio for its technical excelence and molecular details.  

Mitch2, can you give some more information about your pre. Some link, price range? is it possible to buy?

@mattnshilp , thanks for the review. Were you comparing the S1 to the N10 with it’s built in dac or digital out? Or both? To put it into pricing perspective the U1 which is Lumin’s player only model ( almost the same as S1 minus dac) is £4500 and the N10 ( no dac) is £8,500.

Toetap- apologies for not clarifying. 

Both. I compared the S1 using its spdif output into my DAC versus the N10 using its spdif output into my DAC. And then we compared the S1 using its internal DAC to N10 with my DAC. THEN, we compared the $9k Lumin S1 to the $6k Aurender A10 (both server/DAC combo’s) and the A10 won in both my home and office system (my offfie system is Constellation Virgo 2 preamp/Centaur stereo amp/Focal Sopra 2 speakers. 

I think the Lumin’s server section is better then its internal DAC section. But I would put the Melco above the Lumin U1 from a stand-alone server standpoint. But the Melco is a nightmare to control currently, and a bit finicky as far as connections and control. The Lumin control software is my favorite other then using Roon. And you CAN use Roon on the Lumin as well. 

Hi Matt,

I know, you are not fond of tubes, but look at this:
http://www.audioshark.org/lampizator-186/say-hello-new-lampizator-pacific-dac-12912.html
And it has an ethernet input, which is Roon ready!

If you at RMAF this week, please go to the Lampizator room and share your impressions if possible.

Cheers,
Aziz

matt, just an FYI, AQUA just upped the ante on their Formula adding the xHD suffix, better USB interface and new algorithms for the ladder array.

I love tube stuff Aziz. I just chose to avoid tubes for my own personal system because I have a propensity to obsess about trying everything and would end up falling down the rabbit hole of tube rolling. I was quite impressed by the Golden Gate I heard years ago. I was not blown away by the Big 6 I heard years before that. 

Whats the price on the new design? 

Not sure about the US price, Matt.  In Europe it starts from 22K Euro for a single-ended DAC without volume control.