Forgot to mention Glasshouse stepped attenuators as they are also better and can get very expensive. Hifi Collective sells them. Both of these are better than the K based on my research over the past year.
I can tell you these top flight stepped attenuators make a big difference in preamps. If the current Attenuator is an Alps or some other pot, then this upgrade will be a revelation.
I would also build it as a shunt type of stepped Attenuator. |
Thank you Nickolas, what audible differences have you experience on Aeris between the USB connection and the SPDIF connection?
What challenges have some reviewers found with managing Aeris volume directly into amps? In my system, I attenuate the DAC down to zero volume, and then gradually dial up to comfortable level... The 1dB resolution works well for my Rowland M925 monos.
G. |
Nickolas,
That's a very nice system you have developed. It must sound quite natural. |
Granny - have you modded Jensencapacitors.com ribbon inductors into your speaker crossovers yet? They are the best on the planet IMO.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
I have not tried the Jensen ribbon inductors. I purchased some expensive North Creek 10 gauge. Thanks for the tip as I will look at them. |
Steve,
How long to the 12 gauge Jensen foil inductors take to burn in? I bought some to try on my Neo 10 midrange (.56mh) but they sound dull and rolled off. A Jantzen 12 gauge wax paper and foil inductor sounds way more transparent and dynamic (both with no burn in). I notice that the Jensen 12 gauge inductors use twice as thick of foil compared to their 14 gauge ones.....maybe the 14 gauge ones would sound faster? |
Granny - the Jensen inductors will transform your system.
Ricevs - The Jensen inductors break-in almost immediately. I have used the 12 gauge throughout crossover designs with excellent results.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Guido,
Both inputs sound good to my ear, plus it would kind of apple and oranges to point out differences since one is being fed by a computer and the other by a cd transport.
The volume problem is that the Aeris sounds best on the upper end of its vol scale (right led solid, left led off) which depending on your amp's power and speakers' sensitivity may be too loud, in which case you would need a preamp to enjoy it to its fullest.
Nick |
Matt, Any report on the Esoteric K-01 player? |
Grannyring most 42 step attenuators are not Ladder type, but shunt 2 pole attenuators. When you lower the volume with the shunt type the input impedance drops from 100K so the impedance is not constant. Don't you think this type of attenuator will not work great with other tube gear like tube cd player and tubed phono stage. |
Hi Nick, That's interesting... I have used Aeris with the Rowland Criterion pre, and more recently directly into my Rowland M925 amps... I like both, with the former sounding a little softer, and the latter more resolving.... All together, I prefer Aeris directly into the amps, and have not experienced any loss of harmonic or microdynamic resolution at lower volume.
Guido |
Been a long-time follower of this thread. So informative.
Would love to hear comparisons between the K-01 and the ODSE myself too. |
Sorry. The k-01 will be done with its second set of settings burn in next wed. I promise I'll post when Its done. |
Jwm, the varying input impedance of the stunt stepped Shallco is a real non issue based on my experience. The sound quality improvement of only one resistor and one switch in the signal path etc....is much more important. One can also place a larger input to output value resistor if concerned about source matching.
I converted my stepped Attenuator to a shunt step and love the sound quality improvement. I use digital front ends only and find this is an non-issue. You would need to determine your phono front end output Impedance to determine if it is a potential issue with your phono stage.
I don't use phono stages so I really don't know. |
Guido,
Thanks for sharing your insights/experience with the volume control. My amp might be what sounds better at higher levels, as opposed to the Aeris. Whichever it is, the Aeris sounds great and has been a pleasure to listen to.
Have you listened to any hi res on the Aeris? To my ears, it really closes the gap between redbook and 24/96 or 24/192. I'm not hearing the pronounced difference that I did with previous dacs. |
Just for info. PS Audio updated the Firmware on the Direct Stream and it is a very significant audio improvement. |
Hi Nickolas, my source device is the Esoteric X-01 player... Hence, I have fed Aeris with redbook via SPDIF... I have no direct experience with higher resolution files into Aeris.
G. |
Ozzy - can you please describe the improvements? |
Alex, which album is that? Have you heard the DSD version of Indian Architexture? I have the 24/88 version and its magic. Also, you posted a show video earlier in the thread. What was the music being played? Sounded like Garcia-Fons…. Agear, here is a link to the album: Johnny Hodges "Blues A-Plenty"Yes, I have downloaded the DSD files of Indian Architexture. I can hear some sort of tube-induced distortions at the left channel, especially when it gets louder, but that is usually normal with such recordings. Otherwise sounds great! Yes, that is Garcia-Fons on the video…nice stuff. Best, Alex Peychev APL Hi-Fi |
Anything new and exciting? |
That's the thing about digital. There is always something new and exciting just around the corner.
And right now, at its price, the Berkeley Ref dac can't be beat as the current world reference. The price tag of $16k isn't eye-popping but the positive reviews so far indeed are. Can it be better than the megabuck dcs Vivaldi or the Esoteric Grandioso? The audiophile world waits with bated breath for that sort of shoot-out.
As good as the Overdrive ODSE is, whether it befits the title of this thread, "Absolute top tier dac ...." is left to the everyone here to ponder but not by much, I would venture. |
Everyone seems to think that the Overdrive is just a case of "particular customer preference". Well, I encourage you to read some of the professional reviews. They state over and over that tracks these reviewers play have never sounded like this before through ANY other DAC. This really is an exceptional DAC and a giant-killer at this price. There are a lot of technical breakthroughs in it that are not present in any other DAC. Look for a review from Dagogo on the next couple of weeks, more of the same.
And BTW, the Overdrive SX, which will be available soon is a lot better.
Steve N.
Emporical Audio |
Hi Steve, as soon as you have a detailed description / specs of the OV-SX, please post a link to it here!
Saluti, Guido |
Here's the link to Audiostream's review of the Overdrive ODSE + Power Supply + Final Drive + Short Block
http://www.audiostream.com/content/empirical-audio-overdrive-se-usb-dacpre
Reviewer's comments, comparing it to the Bricasti M1 :-
"The Overdrive SE sounded closer to the tonal balance and general sound of the Bricasti Design M1 DAC. The $8995 Bricasti was even faster and more resolving in the midrange and highs than the Overdrive SE and while possessing much of the general ease of the Analog DAC. Adding the Final Drive, Short Block, and direct balanced connection brought the Overdrive SE’s performance closer to that of the Bricasti Design M1." |
10-27-14: Jon2020
That's the thing about digital. There is always something new and exciting just around the corner. And that's one reason why not to take it very seriously. Watching all these "changes" with bated breath is tomfoolery. Its a lot like getting excited about a new computer. You know it will be dusted by what comes six months later.... |
I was concerned that this thread was going away, as I watched it go down further off the forum page, I am pleased to see this thread return!, matt, It would seem that you have had adequete time to report on the Esoteric K-01, unless the importance of the report means nothing because you may have not liked the out come and sold the unit? |
Agear,
Agree. Even so, a comparative review of the latest state-of-the-art digital gear would make a good read on a lazy Sunday afternoon. :) |
Jon2020 - the Bricasti is again compared to the Overdrive SE as well as other DACs in the Dagogo review. Interesting reading when it comes out. There were a few improvements made to the Overdrive SE after the Directstream review.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Just an FYI, there have also been several improvements made to the Bricasti M1 DAC recently, including a new DSP board as well as upgraded OCC copper wiring and fuse bypasses. |
Its good to hear that I'm not the only one doing continuous improvements. Small companies are agile enough and have lower overhead, enabling this.
The unfortunate thing is that most buyers believe the best performing products come from the large companies that spend a lot on advertising and marketing teams. They definitely have the most expensive products....
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
It's a shame that this thread has degenerated to product touting by a persistent small manufacturer. |
FWIW, I tried to talk about tubes for tube digital products here, was going quite well actually, untill someone believed this thread should be only about solid state Dacs and asked us on this thread to stop, mmm, we should have not, that was some very interesting talk and I learned alot more from that then these dac conversations! |
Should be ok, AL, as long as it isn't product touting. |
Am still eagerly awaiting a comparison between Overdrive and K-01. Any chance that would be happening soon. |
Hi Matt. Even though I have been following this thread, being that it is so long I am not sure if anyone mentioned the Totaldac company of products for you to check out. They do have a 14 day home trial and they might be willing to extend it. Of what I have read by both reviewers and owners they all have praised Totaldac as, if not the best they have heard (most say best) then on par with the best, regardless of cost.
The owner is very easy to talk to and very responsive.
I am in the processes of trying out their USB Cable/filter. As I just got it and it needs about a week of burn-in to settle in, I have heard some changes (for the better) from when it was first installed. At first it was very foreword and EVERYTHING was sounding dynamically compressed, loud. Then after about a day or so it all changed for the better and continues to improve, but on a smaller scale. But I must say it (IMHO) has already bettered a HIGHLY regarded and VERY well known and used by many USB Cable that costs more then twice the Totaldac cable.
Well enough of the cable. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the DACs by Totaldac. |
Hifial, I own the Totaldac USB cable and it is very good. I would be curious to hear the dac as well. Vincent Brient seems to be a very earnest and sincere engineer who does not wander into hyperbole or defamation to promote his products. The only issue is the crappy exchange rate.... |
Hello all....
My humble apologies for not posting for a while. The K-01 is a daunting beast when it comes to burn in. Each freakin' setting requires its own 500 hours of burn in, which is slow and makes for a boring posting period. Again, apologies.
At this time, I have burned in:
S-dly2/4x upsampling - 500+ hours
DSD/0 upsampling - 500+ hours
S-dly1/4x upsampling - complete on 11/7
Once done, I will sit and decide which of the settings I like the best. I have purchased a few SACD's to enjoy during that session, although I have ripped my current 16/44 demo song list onto CD as well to keep things red book for a fair and equal comparison.
Once I have decided which setting I like best, I will then burn that setting in another 500 hours while simultaneously burning in the USB input from my computer to compare the K-01 as a standalone DAC with my lovely ODSE. Sorry again, but to get the most from the K-01 really requires a lot of time. As far as I am concerned, a well burned in piece of kit has a higher value then something brand new....
From my reading, I have read the USB conversion system in the K-01 is not the best. My expectation is that my ODSE will beat the K-01 as a DAC for my Mac; but I remain open minded until the notes hit my ears. I still think that the ODSE's Off Ramp USB conversion tech gives it a huge advantage.... That said, the performance of Alex's DAC was exceptional and he was implementing some newer USB conversion tech (as he described). I am waiting anxiously for Steve's new ODSX to hit the shelves; I have very very high expectations...
Please remember that Steve is here because I invited him. I think he has been appropriate and professional all along. Never criticizing others negatively and frequently adding a level of technical knowledge I, for one, woefully lack.
Also remember that I didn't really buy the K-01 to use as a DAC; I bought it to have a top tier SACD source.
I have no doubt that the new Berkeley unit is stellar, and I will watch closely for a good deal to come up so that I can grab one and try it in my room. Feel free to PM me if you see a good deal on one.
Speaking of my room, I should be starting construction on my dedicated listening room in a few weeks. 15' x 18.5' x 9' dedicated room just for me and my stereo. No windows, 1 door. All switches, outlets, fixtures exactly where I want them to put treatments where they need to go and make the room sound its best. I have high hopes that it will take my system to another realm entirely, considering how good it sounds now in such a bad room.
I believe I will eventually use a combination of treatments including GIK, Vicoustics, Acoustic Fields and potentially a custom piece or two... Although I do believe I can accomplish 95% of what I need with just Vicoustics and GIK.
My biggest question is the classic absorption vs diffusion at the first reflection points and front wall. Most other treatments are pretty well agreed upon... Corner traps, combo of diffusion and absorption on rear wall. I'm waiting for some room evaluations/calculations to come through. I'll keep you posted.
I welcome opinions and suggestions for room treatments.
I'll keep you updated on the Room, and the K-01 as things progress.
On a side note, the Burmester gear is being picked up next week. I'm sad to see it go and see them as a target to focus on for next year. I need to restate that it requires a $35K retail amplifier to replace my Veritas monoblocks. I tried a bunch of amps in between the price of the Veritas and the Burmester 911mk3 and although some were better, none were better enough to justify selling the Veritas and upgrading; the cost to improvement over the Merrill amps just wasn't there. Not until the 911mk3/077 combo. That is quite a feather in Merrill Audio's hat. And the list of amps I tried includes other NC1200 "digital" amps including the Mola Mola. The Veritas amps are really that good... |
I just remembered why I have not looked into the Berkeley equipment more closely - no USB input.
Goes WAY back in the thread - but I don't want to deal with a separate USB to SPDIF converter and additional cable. I just don't. There were a few absolute top tier DAC's that just never made my list because they didn't have USB inputs. And I think one or two on my list would have done better if their USB conversion was better.
Maybe after I have upgraded everything else as far as I can, and finished my room, would I feel the need to move beyond my current DAC (or the K-01 or ODSX if I like it more) and take the steps to bring in a separate USB to SPDIF converter and additional cable. Or, more likely would be that somewhere along the way I find a top tier digital music server that satisfies my needs and has an SPDIF output... |
"09-10-14: Audioengr
...... What are you talking about? Where did you get your EE degree?
Steve N.
Empirical Audio"
"09-10-14: Almarg
..... Where did you get your EE degree?
BSEE Columbia University
MSEE Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
+ 33 years experience designing and managing design of analog, digital, A/D, and D/A converter circuits for defense electronics." |
Jon2020 - easy there.
Inflammatory remarks beget Inflammatory remarks....
Let's keep it productive please. Everyone. |
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Hey Matt I'm curious why no USB input on the Berkeley is a deal breaker for you? IIRC your stated goal was the best playback of redbook. If that's the case not having a USB input really doesn't matter since you could just use an SPDIF input..
I also think you should seriously consider using something other than a Mac Mini as a source. There are several units that will handily outperform the Mini.. and for not a lot of money..I'd recommend that you look into an Auralic Aries, or a Moon Mind, both out perform a Mini and both will output SPDIF (the Aries has USB and various SPDIF outs) and they're both very reasonably priced, and with either you could still use the Mini for storing your files ( although a Nas would be better)
Or if you wanted to keep things even simpler you might want to consider an Aurrender, if you wanted to go with a one box solution.
In any case I think the Mini may start to be a limiting factor in the performance of any Dac you end up with. |
Ericminer - you are correct. But I'm waiting another year or so for the next generation of music servers. The current kits come SO close to ideal for me, but not quite there yet.
When I replace my Mac Mini, I'll have spdif output and can try some days I'm currently shying away from.
I wish you guys could hear what I am getting from my Mac/odse/Burmester /die Muzik system. It's on another level. And that's in a terrible room.
First- better room.
Then new server....
But all of your points are valid.
Jon - are you OK? Lol. That was an interesting set of posts. I always agree with myself also. ;) |
Matt,
I am ok, man. The audiogon server went a bit whacky and i thought my first post didn't get through, so i posted a new one and so on and voila!...they ALL finally appeared together! I was agreeing with you, not myself. Lol! |
I'm also pretty shocked/disappointed that the Berkeley doesn't include a USB input. |
