Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD


Hi All.

Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.

I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.

Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?

All opinions welcome.

And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.

Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
mattnshilp

Showing 20 responses by aplhifi

Hi Matt,

I'd suggest using the IsoTek burn-in CD. You can buy it and rip it to your Mac to use for faster break-in of any audio component in the chain.

Best wishes,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi
Hi Matt,

I'd suggest using the IsoTek burn-in CD. You can buy it and rip it to your Mac to use for faster break-in of any audio component in the chain.

BTW, did you receive my PM?

Best wishes,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi
This is good advise, but I'll give you even better advise:
Power all of your digital gear from a Plasmatron 3 from VHAudio.com

While this is a very appealing product, there are number of audiophiles who'd appreciate something else that does a very similar job, but lacks the tubes. :-)

The hard-core "tube lovers" will still be not as impressed (especially when the beautifu tube glow is missing :-)), but a faithfully comparable performance/improvement can actually be achieved with solid state devices as well. :-)

Stay tuned.

Best wishes,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi
Hi Guido,

The SSD is indeed superior to HDD, however, a linear 5V power for it is a must, otherwise it sounds somewhat mechanical to my ears, especially noticeable at the upper mids and highs.

The Esoteric X-01 is sure transformer coupled at the S/PDIF output, but since you already have a transformer inside your DAC, this is not that important. The main objective of a pulse transformer at the S/PDIF is ground isolation.
The Esoteric runs on twin R-Core linear supply, so actually a transformer-less digital transmission might be better since the transformers sometimes introduce unwanted artifacts.

Saluti,
Alex
Hi Matt,

Just finished the DSD-S for you. It is singing nicely. :-)

I will put around 100 hours on it before shipping it to you, but it will require more, of course. However, since most active devices on the signal path are MOSFET, the DSD-S sounds quite nice even when brand new, especially after 30 min warm-up, similar to tube electronics. :-)

Best,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi
Ozzy, thanks for your input!

Matt is correct that several negative posts can hurt such manufacturers like Steve and me.

After what happen back in the days, I worked very hard to improve customer satisfaction, and I think I did it. :-)

As for PS Audio, such company cannot be compared to what Steve does, for example. We are talking about pure all-hand-made boutique that is made with the best possible components, free of any budgets. At least this is how I feel about this subject.

As for servicing, the Electronic Express service center in Chicago is fully authorized to service all of my products, both warranty and out-of-warranty, and they have done a great gob over the past few years. So I think there are no worries about that.

Best wishes,
Alex
Also, the DSD-S is on its way. No idea what to expect with that.

The DSD-S is scheduled to arrive in NY this Friday. :-)

Power cord and a special USB cable are included, as well as SD card with demo tracks on both DSD and CD formats, including some recordings from my reference vinyl rig. :-)

Let's see if the DSD-S DAC will help you realize your dream about removing the preamp from the rack. :-)

Best wishes,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi, Ltd.
ok, you got my attention, Aplhifi, what do you mean about the above statement, DSD-S Dac will help you realize your dream about removing the pre-amp from the rack?, please specify the brand and model if you are talking about a Dac that can run direct to amplification that sounds very good to you?

It is this one here that can drive any power amp direct - DSD-S DAC

Well, not exactly a dream, but a wish that Matt has expressed many times on this/his thread. :-)

Best,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi
Aplhifi, perhaps but I'm now using a music server with double DSD output from the dac. The BMC, at least cannot play this.

Tbg, the DSD-S can surely play double DSD (DSD128) and the DSD-M can play quadruple DSD (DSD256) at 13.5MHz.

However, as we discussed today with a respected reviewer, it is not the format (PCM or DSD) and it is not the rate that matters that much. Simply, it is all about implementation. :-)

Best,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi
Matt,

Thank you for a nice initial write up, and for nice suggestions about the finalized packaging and looks!

Few things, if I may:

1. The unit was double-boxed, but I've asked my brother to unpack it so you can see it with the white printed box. Maybe you noticed that there was no shipping labels or any such marks on the box.

2. We have sleeves coming up for covering the entire unit with the company logo on them, but they did not arrive on time, sorry about that.

3. The foam pieces that hold the two sides of the DSD-S are tested well, so there will be no damage of the unit, even if you throw it UPS style from 3 meters above ground. :-) Of, course, it is always possible to add more foam so it looks even more secure, this is not a problem.

4. Honestly, I find it very surprising that the DSD-S sounded harsh on the top in your system. Maybe it is a good idea to try it with different cables, hopefully not Silver, and preferably non-shielded (or lightly shielded). Experiments with the RCA and XLR outputs are desirable, as well as trying the DSD-S direct to your amplifiers. The other thing is alternating between DSD64 and DSD128 modes and see which one you like better. As I've mentioned in the instructions, DSD128 is cleaner, while DSD64 is more rounded, that can be helpful with some bright recordings, for example. Finally, this DSD-S has barely 200 hours on it, so it may need more, especially after being shipped overseas and not played for several days, as you pointed out already.

I find your comments very valuable, thanks again!

Best,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi

Thanks for your feedback Matt, I appreciate it!

The DSD-S was changed from 8x oversampling with adaptive digital filtering to Zero filtering and oversampling when it comes to PCM processing, prior to DSD conversion.

Also, the output stage was re-biased for twice as much higher current than it was before.

From now on, my intention is to offer three options for the DSD-S digital filtering when it comes to PCM processing that will satisfy many tastes.

Just to make it clear, the DSD-S is a midline product. As good as it may be, it is nowhere near the reference DSD-M that has my own DSD to Analog converter, as well as a differential Class-A tube output stage built with a pair of NOS Philips E182CC tubes and custom Lundahl transformers wound with OFC wire.

Best,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi Ltd.
Though many will take this as an advertisement (no worries), I personally don't think that an all-linear powered computer with Windows Server 2012/R2 and Audiophile Optimizer, all running in Core mode can be outperformed with another computer audio solution. But things really come to place when using the computer to load an SD card that plays the audio files from the SDT-M digital transport. SD card directly to output and with linear power. IMO, this is the only solution that comes close to a regular digital transport that cannot be outperformed by any computer audio solution, regardless of technology and cost. Reasons are obvious.

Best wishes,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi
Agear, I didn't know about these two, but glad to see more are doing this.

Though the SDT-M plays up to 384kHz PCM and DSD512, here is something else I've also played with that does 192k and DSD64 in DoP format. I don't think it can be outperformed with a computer either: QA660 SD card player

Best,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi
Paul,

There is a firmware release for DoP64 support, as well as ALAC. Link here: QA660 DoP and ALAC support

There are just two SDT-M prototypes at the moment, but more are on the way soon. Will let you know the details as we progress.

The SDT-M is a SD card Digital Transport intended to work with our D/A converters. It uses a I2S-like connection, but not PCM. It is all DSD for both PCM formats (converted to DSD64, double DSD128 or quadruple DSD256 on request) and native DSD files up to DSD512.

Of course, if you have a DAC supporting such rates and input you can use it too. Pinout of the 10-pin RJ-50 jack will be disclosed for a referene. For those who like to use it with up to 192k PCM only, there is always the good old S/PDIF output also available. :-)

Best,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi
Alex, which album is that? Have you heard the DSD version of Indian Architexture? I have the 24/88 version and its magic. Also, you posted a show video earlier in the thread. What was the music being played? Sounded like Garcia-Fons….

Agear, here is a link to the album: Johnny Hodges "Blues A-Plenty"
Yes, I have downloaded the DSD files of Indian Architexture. I can hear some sort of tube-induced distortions at the left channel, especially when it gets louder, but that is usually normal with such recordings. Otherwise sounds great!
Yes, that is Garcia-Fons on the video…nice stuff.

Best,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi
Hi Matt,

It looks like you have some very nice DACs coming for audition. Maybe you'd consider adding another one in the mix? DSD-S

Best wishes,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi
Alex, can you elaborate on that H-attenuator in DSD-S and why do you think it may sound better lets say than one implemented in Esoteric k-01. Did you compare your DSD-S running direct with other top shelf pre-amps? I know its all subjective,but still care to know your opinion. Thank you.

Denon1, the attenuation in the DSD-S is obviously a hybrid design. This allows for lossless attenuation in the normal listening range (0 to -47db to be exact). Also, the DSD-S output stage is so powerful that can drive even a speaker direct (at the RCA outputs), not to talk about any power amplifier. I've made an RCA to headphones jack adapter so I can listen to my Audeze LCD-X headphones that are power hungry at 20 Ohms impedance. Results are quite nice. :-)

Hope this explains it.

Best wishes,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi
Tbg,

I am sorry but which part of the word "same" you do not understand?

DoP and "native" DSD streaming are exact same thing, except that DoP is packed in PCM-like format. Once DoP is "unpacked" it turns out to native/real/pure DSD.
So there is no audio quality difference between that two.

Again, let's not confuse DoP with DSD converted to PCM.

There are few more things that you are welcome to share with your "other pro designers".

1. It is not exactly clear how the ESS Sabre DAC handles DSD, especially when it comes to attenuation. This is something that only ESS can clear up, if they want.

2. The German-made TheSycon ASIO driver for XMOS does support "native" DSD.

3. Your BMC PureDac does support DSD64 and double DSD128, probably in DoP format, though not specified on their specs.

4. JRiver MC19 can convert any PCM file to:

a) DoP at DSD64
b) DoP at double DSD128
c) native DSD stream at double DSD128

Bottom line, your current DAC operating at double DSD128 should sound the same as your BMC PureDac operating at double DoP/DSD128, which the JRiver MC19 supports as well.

If you still hear audio quality difference, it is because something else in the signal path is inferior or superior.

Hope this helps!

Best ,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi
Alex- Are the fuses top tier audiophile grade? Do you think upgrading is worthwhile? I welcome your input and comments as I did Steve during my eval of the ODSE.

Matt, only the fuse marked 1.0A matters for the sound quality. The other one is for the standby power. After trying many well regarded fuses, I have chosen a certain type that sounds best for my application. So yes, you have topnotch "audiophile" fuse already installed. :-)

Please note that the DSD-S is voiced as it is, without additional tweaks.
Adding weight on top or nicer feet may result in different/better sound, but that is something you can do after you decide if you like the DSD-S or not.

Just like Stillpoints made a difference on your "milled from solid aluminum" amplifiers, I am sure that such devices will improve any audio equipment.

Coming back to your comments, the DSD-S can be anything else but harsh.
Maybe the harshness in your system will go away with burn-in but, sometimes, it can be caused by cables or other components on the line, not capable of processing the energy present at the source. This is similar to a pinched garden hose. :-)

Anyway, I'd suggest that you just let the DSD-S play for a week and then listen again. Then you can experiment with cables, for example. BTW, which outputs did you use for initial evaluation?

Best,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi
How dare you!....

That could not be more true. Physicians (and possibly engineers) are the worst offenders.....

Sure, physicians and engineers are most welcome!

But even Almarg (or anyone else with such extensive experience) would agree that the new Berkeley converter should at least make possible for DSD64 through the S/PDIF inputs via DoP format and let their customers decide whether Pure DSD is better than DSD converted to 176/24 PCM. And DoP sent from their external USB to S/PDIF converter will not have the "negative" impact of having USB input that contaminates signal lines resulting in more jitter. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Best,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi