@audphile1 There is one big thing you missed in your list. Maybe there are no differences? That could be a possibility also.
That list was classic audiophile bullshit and arrogance.
A stupid question(s) about power cords
As the title indicates, I admit that this is probably a stupid question. But since I don’t know (for sure) the answer, I am asking it anyway.
The recent power cord thread got me interested in a power cord upgrade (from the stock cord) on my Maranzt SA10 (SACDP). The power cord receptacle on that particular component does not have a male equipment ground pin--only the neutral and hot pins. Therefore the cord supplied by Maranzt is a two pole (if that is the right terminology) cord. But because I have done it this way before, I do know that it will accept a power cord with an equipment ground as well as a neutral and hot.
Question 1: I went to musicdirect and looked at some power cords and I saw one (an open box Audioquest NRG Z2) that they were calling a two pole cord. The end that plugs in to the component only has a neutral and a hot, but the other end, the end that plugs into the outlet in the wall, does have an equipment ground blade (so that end has three blades). Why would that be?
Question 2: (and this is the stupid one) if a power cord has an equipment ground pin plugged into the wall, even if it is not plugged into an eqipment ground in the component itself, that cord is still connected to the neutral bus bar in the panel, right? So that being the case, since the equipment ground wire in the cord is right next to the hot wire, is there a way unwanted stuff (rf or whatever, my understanding of this is quite limited) can that dirty up the power that is traveling on the hot wire in the power cord?
I think that the answer to the last question is probably going to be ’no’? And if the answer is ’no’, that means that I really don’t need to shop for only two pole cords, right? And I see this as sort of important because if I buy a two pole cord, the ONLY component I can use it on/try it out on will be my SACDP--there will be no playing around with a two pole cord on my preamp or my amp.
And ALSO, if I don’t feel constrained to shopping ONLY for two pole cords, I would probably have more options to consider.
TIA for legitimate insight to this, and to all others, feel free to ridicule me and my question--I don’t mind.
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@immatthewj As Eric Squires alluded to, the value of a 3-Wire plug into the wall will offer the connection to earth ground necessary to provide a shield for the cable. Whatever cable you buy, every manufacturer I’ve seen on record recommends a shielded cable. You can’t have a shield without a connection to an earth ground. The purpose of the shield is to provide a path by which to ‘drain’ EMI (electromagnetic interference) present in the environment from other electromagnetic producing components like transformers, speakers, other power cords which aren’t shielded. In your case it may be an advantage that there is no third pin on equipment, as it prevents the condition in which the shield is connected at both ends, which some interconnect cable incorrectly do. If the shield is connected to ground at both ends, it is no longer a shield, but a conductor. (Although, in deference to Ralph of Atmasphere, it all depends on the implementation of internal circuitry.) So, the two pins on the equipment end means that they have isolated the equipment from earth ground. My understanding is that this is an older, and some say better, way of making equipment safe. These days everyone has jumped on the GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupt) bandwagon, which requires an earth ground connection as an alternate path back to the utility. Regardless of the method, the purpose of fault protection is to carry the current back to the utility, without going through your body. |
Time for a rerun: Anyone needing a rationale for experimenting with new cables in their system and/or feeling dissuaded by the Church of Denyin'tology's antiquated electrical doctrines: take heart!
Many new electrical facts have been established in the past 100 years, that support audible differences, between various cables, fuses, etc. I couldn't find anything like, "Updated Electrical Theory For Idiots", but- did manage to find something resembling a cartoon, that even a child could follow. It neither mentions AC/sinusoidal waves in wires, nor does it go into the photon propagation of electromagnetic waves. It does, however, emphasize/demonstrate how Electrical Theory has progressed, since the 1800s: (https://www.youtube.com/ These next two presuppose a certain amount of knowledge, in the field of modern Electrical Theory. Click, "more" in the first link's third answer, to get its entirety. Note how it mentions the OLD, "... commonly held misconception that the flow of electricity through a wire resembles a tube filled with ping pong balls...", to which the Denyin'tologists fervently adhere: https://www.quora.com/Are- and: https://van.physics. It's an established (measured) fact that an electromagnetic wave's propagation and speed, are dependent on the materials, of which the transmission line (cable) are made (ie: Dielectric Constant/permittivity). The better (lower) the Dielectric Constant the better the flow and the longer it takes for that material to become polarized. One reason anything that comprises an RLC circuit (ie: capacitors, cables, PC boards), takes time to, "form", or, "break/burn-in".* *Something that makes the Denyin'tologists apoplectic. https://resources.pcb. https://unlcms.unl.edu/cas/ Even the most inane (regarding the Sciences) must admit; braiding and twisting wires eliminates/reduces EMI interference. That must lend credence to various cable geometries. That better dielectrics enhance the propagation of electromagnetic waves (ie: your music signal), lends the same credence to choosing cables with better materials (ie: Polypropylene, Teflon, air, etc). Of course: anything the Church of Denyin'tology's popes can't fathom, they'll summarily dismiss. As simple a device as a fuse is: it still carries a sinusoidal signal/voltage, ALWAYS from source to load.
NOT back and forth!
Also (as mentioned above): any fuse acts as an RLC circuit, the 'C' of which will be determined by properties of its wave guide's/ conductor's surroundings (ie: glass, air, bee's wax, ceramic, end cap materials, etc).
Any commonly drawn wire will exhibit a chevron pattern in its crystal lattice, so: why not "directionality" and why OHNO Continuous Cast, single crystal wire sounds better, to so many?
Stated above are scientifically tested, measured and proven facts.
There is no "contest", or "dispute" involved.
The OP mentions Maxwell, but: obviously they have no understanding of his theory and possible ramifications as regards the above.
Anyone that feels compelled to harp on not hearing any differences, is obviously too obtuse to understand the term "variables" (as frequently mentioned) and worthy of disregard.
My only goal in these threads has ever been to encourage those with a mind to experiment with their systems, based on the latest (20th/21st Century's) findings of ACTUAL Physics/science and ignore the Cargo Cult's incessant runway building (objections, convolutions, deflections and obfuscations).
Happy listening!
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There are reasons why some don’t hear difference between cables. 1. Low quality components 2. Bad room acoustics even with decent components this will be detrimental 3. Bad setup - speakers are not properly placed, speakers blocked by large furniture, no designated listening position, no critical listening and again low quality components and room acoustics 4. Listener is not able to hear differences - not everyone can. 6. Doesn’t want to or doesn’t have the means to upgrade cables In any case, arguing with these people is pointless.
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@mrdecibel actually you are. Science doesn’t back nonsense. Cable break in is nonsense. Your ears get used to sound in that time - how can carrying electrons change? That would violate the laws of physics. I find y'all entertaining. Please gone on - tell me I am wrong and how....
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Hi, @mrdecibel - Every cable, currently in my system, is silver (except for the 8TCs on my Subs). ie: 1 pair) Kimber KS1030 & 1 pair) KS1130, 2) SR AC Master Coupler X pcs, 6) Zu Mother pcs and 1 pair) Analysis Plus Big Silver Ovals. Nothing pricey, fancy or- the, "latest and greatest". It's always been my opinion: if you use a cable that has the best available conductor and dielectric, it just makes sense that you should be able to better hear whatever the rest of your components are putting out, good or bad. Given the rest of the cable's construction is worth a damn, of course. Outside of some stridency, from some* 1970's, Siemens CCa's, that I tried in my CDP (it takes six); I've never had an issue with brightness. This moment: there are six early 60's (grey plate) CCa's in there and the presentation is excellent. And: that's with the coaxial horn tweeters in my Emerald Physics speakers, which SHOULD let me know if there's a brightness issue. As you mention: ears are a MAJOR variable and just one of a plethora, when it comes to this hobby. *I had tried two of those, combined with four of the grey plates. Happy Listening!
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Well, the one that I THOUGHT I had ordered was rhodium plated (2 meters). However, when I checked on the 'my orders' on my Amazon account, I actually ordered gold plated (2 meters). But I am okay with that because if anything I wouldn't mind if my system warmed up just a tad. And no biggy, because for $50 I am willing to experiment a couple of times. |
Everyone should buy one and try it out. Let it settle in for 100 or so hours. A very nice sounding cable at the price. @audphile1 I tried them all. I happen to like the Rhodium...in my system, to my ears, it has a slightly more open and airy top end, and a more dynamic midband. Bass about the same. It bettered many more expensive cables. If it is a coloration, it makes no difference, as my ears like what I like. MrD. |
@audphile1 I have tried all of the metals and all of the shells on these, and the aluminum alloy shells are incredible, to these ears. My best, MrD. |
@rodman99999 my dear friend, you are so correct. 👍 However, I find silver, and silver plating in cables, extremely system sensitive, more so than the others, ime. My best, always, MrD. |
correction: Silver is the best metal for conduction of electricity. https://www.thoughtco.com/the-most-conductive-element-606683 |
Let me be clear. I never stated the Rhodium is the one I recommended. The manufacturer gives you a choice, and I am very familiar with both. I hear no less detail, or anything less, listening with the Rhodium connectors. However, as I did mention, they do sound a hair brighter to me. I too like shielding in power cords. The grip in the terminal is very tight. If you have not tried it, what you say means nothing to me. Have a great day ! |
I like to use shielded power cords, even when the device it is connected to is not grounded. The shielding should reduce the chances of local EMI/RFI sources like Ethernet / Wifi radios from polluting the noise after it’s been cleaned up by my power conditioner. IMHO, rhodium in the signal chain is garbage for two reasons: Poor conductor AND too hard, which causes poor grip strength. Better to have something soft and malleable the AC socket or speaker terminal can grab a hold of. |
Rhodium is the most expensive metal in the world currently. It is used in catalysis in the (converters in your car, albeit small amount) and in the petrochemical industry. Rhodium is currently 4750.00 USD per Oz. Copper is the best metal for conduction of electricity. Realize that most commercial electrical lines, and high-power lines to your home are made of aluminum as it is cheaper. |
@mrdecibel rhodium has 50% conductivity of copper and 70% conductivity of gold. So you are adding more resistance using rhodium as well as expense. Some rhodium compounds are highly toxic also. |
First of all, you are again, over thinking. We are talking under $50. How many electronic components have plastic tops ? Any piece you own ? That is the best from Preffair. The shell is aluminum alloy. It does great. I would say, if you feel better about the plastic shells, go that way, but this cable is still a great way to experience high end power cables for cheap. And, metals sound different, as everything does. My best, MrD. |
@mrdecibel I appreciate your time and help. But I am a bit confused (as per usual). The last one I selected that you said was the one I was looking for is Rhodium plated and there are gold plated options; if Rhodium is a bit brighter, wouldn't one want to steer towards another option? Just asking. . . . ALSO: as far as the shell, would plastic be less apt to conduct RF? |
@mrdecibel , is that the main difference between all of those 10 gauge Preffair power cords? Rhodium versus copper? |
@hasmarto , I was not saying that they didn't. I was just asking if there was a downside to having an equipment ground wire connected to the neutral bus bar if that neutral ground wire was not needed (as it would not be connected to the component). I didn't feel that this should be an issue, but who knows--I have been wrong before about stuff I was reasonably confident about. That's why I asked. |
@mrdecibel , it must be this one? |
Yes, Preffair, but a 10 gauge cable. Can get it with plastic shells or aluminum shells. Google : Amazon - Preffair Audio. You should be at their main page. Down on the right side, top right power cable. The one I am recommending has aluminum barrels/shells on the plugs, is a 10 gauge cable, and is grey cloth with a spiral line. Sorry, I am a laptop dummy. |
@grislybutter , that should make me fair game for you. But not to worry--I actually do have a sense of humor.
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@immatthewj as far as know, humor is not a widely understood concept here. Ridiculing, belittling are almost inevitable, given the vast differences in knowledge and the anonymous nature of the forum. Unfortunately that leaves me little to make fun of, but I still try :) |
@grislybutter , If that’s to me, I actually know almost nothing at all about power cords and that’s why I am so hesitant to take the plunge. But as far as making fun . . . I did preface the thread by inviting ridicule, so I have it coming. I am glad I checked with you before I took the wet towels down from behind my speakers. |
@jea48 , thank you for your thorough answer to the question. |
Just use a three cord plug. It will be fine. As to whether it will shield RF, that is not the point of the third conductor, which is to ground the chassis of the electronic equipment. Oh, and burn it in, freeze it, bury it in dirt for 30 days, have it blessed by your local priest and spray Synergistic Research Audiophile Water on it. Sheesh...
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