A stupid question(s) about power cords

My mistake on the rhodium mix up--I am more than half blind and I am also computer-retarded and I did not note that rhodium is only an available option as is gold for plating.

@gs5556  , thank you for that explanation!  That makes total sense when it is explained that way.  

I'll thank you again on this thread, @audphile1  !  I was just about to post a topic on "digital" inquiring about about a good match with the SA10.    I'll research the Nordost Heimdall 2.  My SA10 is in front of a Cary SLP 05 which is in front of a Cary V12.  I love the detail, but if it warmed up a bit it wouldn't bother me.  The salesman at MD who sold me the SA10 told me it would really benefit from a better power cord, but I halfway didn't take that completely seriously, as that's what salesmen are paid to say, but I've always wondered about it.

@immatthewj just sold SA10 few months ago. Nordost Heimdall 2 was a nice match with it. Opened up the top end a bit and improved clarity. Give it a shot.

@audphile1 , I found that cord on MD (I think MD has a 15% off sale going on right now) and I am assuming you had a 3 pole cord?And as an aside, I just got done reading a SA10 horror story that you were a participant of in the digital forum. One of the takeaways from that thread (there were many) was that you are not a big fan of the SA10. I was impressed with the sonic presentation of mine; however, with that typed, I don’t have a lot to compare with--it was my first SACDP (SACD really impresses me) and prior to that I was listening to three pieces of 1990s digital separates that I am sure are, digitally speaking, obsolete,

@audphile1  , I think I'll do that tomorrow if that 15% off is still good (I just got the "limited time" email from them today)..  As far as the SA10, I have the feeling that you are travelling in a different league than I am, so that being typed, it is probably easier to impress me.  Thanks for the input--itis appreciated.

No... Even if the 3 wire power cord is an OEM power cord the placement of the safety equipment grounding conductor between the Hot and Neutral current carrying conductors is in what is called the null zone. The electromagnetic fields in the null zone cancel each other out.

 

As for this:

The end that plugs in to the component only has a neutral and a hot, but the other end, the end that plugs into the outlet in the wall, does have an equipment ground blade (so that end has three blades). Why would that be?

I don't think I've even seen a so called polarized audio grade two pole male plug.

Lots of two pole grounding type male plugs though. (Cost, price = demand.)

@jea48  , thank you for your thorough answer to the question.

I truly wanted to make fun of you but you know way more about power cords than I ever will. Nerd.

@grislybutter , If that’s to me, I actually know almost nothing at all about power cords and that’s why I am so hesitant to take the plunge. But as far as making fun . . . I did preface the thread by inviting ridicule, so I have it coming. I am glad I checked with you before I took the wet towels down from behind my speakers.

Ridiculing, belittling are almost inevitable, given the vast differences in knowledge

Unfortunately that leaves me little to make fun of, but I still try :)

@grislybutter , that should make me fair game for you. But not to worry--I actually do have a sense of humor.

humor is not a widely understood concept here.

@mrdecibel  , this one?

@mrdecibel  , it must be this one?

https://www.amazon.com/Audiophile-IEC320-C15-Connector-Subwoofer-Turntable/dp/B09L4R1FJ3/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2W2HPCRAOPMBH&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.yq2OsR1i_pBcUO6FyZGwiGHp52t-8IjaP1U3v0YUT1xzAYbbEPOK5x8qhLmmOsFjl-Z2DJsNdlSUWyoVOoaYn1u32MHKA2tUo3w5tW0PVyuK9cLSNb7zvg4eLppUNi5-jGBDadC1Birw6Lkh3Xk7GNeDX9zUztnMFjeQyDFBzTBDgr2A-upK0GsS-KLT9_q6-SmQAB9m2Y2Cdx0R1J3JO7w_4qrGU2SsqpVCnb77YWk.JSnQznc2uY7p66Q6BE2E844paAgTOpVyCBoCPNkfO_E&dib_tag=se&keywords=10%2Bawg%2Baudiophile%2Bpower%2Bcord%2Bpreffair&qid=1715202016&sprefix=%2Caps%2C245&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

Rhodium is a touch brighter at the very top, vs copper. Copper is smoother, possibly the safer bet.

@mrdecibel I appreciate your time and help.  But I am a bit confused (as per usual).  The last one I selected that you said was the one I was looking for is Rhodium plated and there are gold plated options; if Rhodium is a bit brighter, wouldn't one want to steer towards another option?  Just asking. . . .

ALSO:  as far as the shell, would plastic be less apt to conduct RF?

I’m pretty sure Marantz knows how to wire their equipment before sending it to US.

@hasmarto , I was not saying that they didn't.  I was just asking if there was a downside to having an equipment ground wire connected to the neutral bus bar if that neutral ground wire was not needed (as it would not be connected to the component).  I didn't feel that this should be an issue, but who knows--I have been wrong before about stuff I was reasonably confident about.  That's why I asked.

@mrdecibel  , it has got to be this one?

https://www.amazon.com/Audiophile-IEC320-C15-Connector-Subwoofer-Turntable/dp/B09L4YB1JZ?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1

Rhodium is a touch brighter at the very top, vs copper. Pick your poison.

@mrdecibel  , is that the main difference between all of those 10 gauge Preffair power cords?  Rhodium versus copper?

@mrdecibel  , this one?

Well, the one that I THOUGHT I had ordered was rhodium plated (2 meters).  However, when I checked on the 'my orders' on my Amazon account, I actually ordered gold plated (2 meters).  But I am okay with that because if anything I wouldn't mind if my system warmed up just a tad.  And no biggy, because for $50 I am willing to experiment a couple of times.

@audphile1 , I suppose that to be honest I do fit into a couple of the categories on the list. Although, with all things being relative, my equipment is probably okay, my room is small and acoustically untreated and I am near-field listening (unobstructed equilateral triangle) which I have read on this site may take the room somewhat out of the equation. And I suppose that it is possible that I either lack the ability to hear all sonic changes or I may lack the ability to realize that I am hearing all the differences.

However I would say that: I did make a couple of equipment upgrades in the last four years (the SA10 that was kind of the driver for this thread and a SLP-05) and I was able to hear the differences, particularly with the SLP-05. Also I will say that I have been rolling some pairs of 6SN7s in the balanced input sockets of the SLP-05 and when I put a real nice pair in there, I definitely do hear it. Also, with good source material in the SA10, the sonic effect works magic on me. As an example, last night I played three discs that I liked the music on: the Sony SBM (redbook) remaster of Born To Run sounded like nails on a chalkboard, the MFSL redbook of Goodbye Yellow Brick Road sounded better on certain tracks but overall not a whole lot better, but when I put the MFSL/SACD of Cowboy Junkies Whites Off Earth Now . . . as I typed--magic. I wish my oldy but moldys could sound that good.

So with that last paragraph typed, I am not completely devoid of the ability to hear, and I’ll just have to see/hear how it goes. I’d also say that way way back in the days when I upgraded speaker wires and interconnects, I do not remember being slapped in the face with an "OMG, that sounds better!" but I do know that I felt a contentment when I was listening that drove me to listen longer and more frequently. Of course, I have no doubt that my hearing was better back then.

By the way I had no intention to sound obnoxious or arrogant with that list I posted earlier.

@audphile1  , I didn't take it that way at all--those all seem to me to be legitimate reasons.  Especially as far as hearing goes.

I think that there are some subtle sonic changes that can occur without certain listeners (and I include myself) from consciously realizing that the changes are actually occurring.  But I also think that they add up and make for a more pleasurable listening experience, although some listeners (myself included) do not always immediately recognize why they are finding it more enjoyable.

I already know what the response to this theory is.  

@audphile1 , it is installed connecting my SA10 to the grid and I put 3.5 hours on it tonight.  (in truth, I unplugged my system after I finished up this evening, so is not presently connected.)   I am starting out dabbling my toes in the water with the Preffair. I actually went with the gold plated option, because if Rhodium does make it a tad brighter, that is the opposite way I want to go as my system stands now. I love that SLP-05, but it is definitely not what my idea of a warm preamp is. Which I am not saying is a bad thing, but, again, if anything , my system could sound a touch warmer without hurting my feelings or my ears.

Speaking of preamps, I am going to get one for that also. However, I am thinking maybe I should put the cord that I just bought on to the preamp and go with the carbon fiber version for the SA10? I remember reading a previous power cord thread, and it was suggested that digital might benefit from being shielded?

Thanks, @mrdecibel  , I was going to get back with you later on today and see what your opinion of that was.  As I typed a bit previously, I opted for gold plated as if I could get a bit more warmth going, I'd be happy.  So that settles it, I guess I am going to get another one, the same as this one I have now,  for my preamp.

I can do that, @audphile1  .  I guess  I was more interested in it's effect on the front end due to being based upon what the salesman from MD told me (when he was no doubt trying to sell a power cord as well as the CDP).  

And I had been wanting to ask you what your thoughts were on the filter selections with the SA 10?  I hate to admit it, but in the four years I have owned that component, I have never experimented--I have always left it in the 'default' setting.

(I seem to hate being contronted with choices and decisions.)  

@audphile1 and @mrdecibel

The room is near field and untreated eccept for the throw tugs I have covered the floor with. If the source material is good or better than good it will sing and the walls and speakers will disappear . . . a substandard source disc sounds horrible.

As far as bright, I wouldn’t call it that (except with certain discs); however, the SLP-05 replaced a modded SLP-90 which was a lot warmer. I got a lot more air and detail and a wider soundstage with more definition wit6h the SLP-05, but sometimes it seems on the cool side to me. I understand that an acoustically treated room would bring it to another level, but we just are not there yet.

Thanks @mrdecibel ; I will keep you posted. I had to unplug everything to facilitate other goings on in the room, but I am hoping to have everything hooked back up by tomorrow. Life if full of compromises. I do believe that an improvement could be made without me fully relaizing what the improvement tangibly is--just that my level of comfort and satisfaction has increased to an extent. Possibly or even probably a small extent. But small + small = slightly bigger than small. I don’t talk a lot about this, because it opens things up for nay-sayers. "What!? So you THINK there MIGHT be an improvement in your SQ, but you don’t know for sure what it is, and you don’t know for sure IF it is? Seriously??" But the thing is, I do not have the golden ear so I do not immediately recognize differences in SQ and what they are. But it’s my time and my dime and if I wasn’t okay with it I wouldn’t do it.

@audphile1  , I absolutely hate trying to A/B stuff (I don't have the ear for it, plus, the back of my components isn't the worst in the world, but it is not super-duper accessible either) so as opposed to going back and forth from components to power cords, at around $50 a pop, I ordered two more.  The first one I bought from the SA10 has a tad over 40 hours on it now, and the two from the preamp and the amp are a tad over 30.  I elected to go with the gold plated option, because if rhodium actually is brighter, that is not the way I want to go--if anything, I could probably stand a bit more warmth.  However, at the same time I put the last two PCs in (amp and preamp), I also hooked up a new pair of Revel speakers I am auditioning from MD.

@dill  , yes, if an improvement, even one so small that I will not IMMEDIATELY hear, can be made for around $150, I'll give it a try.  And if not, que sara, sara.

So, you don't have the ear for it and it is a hassle to change the cable, but you want to hear an improvement with a $50.00 power cable? 

@mrdecibel ​​​ , @dill , I’ll just weigh back in here quickly to say that in a few more (three or four) weeks (or maybe less) when I have accumulated 100 hours on the new speakers and the cords, I am going to unhook the speakers and put the B&Ws back into the system and see what differences I then hear. From reading @audphile1 ’s posts, I know that my ears are not in the same league as his; however, if it turns out that I cannot hear a difference from the speakers that I spent 3k on, I will not say que sara, sara on that, and they will go back. At that point in time, I may even play around with the power cords which should then be burned in.

Going back to a previous post I made (and I have no doubt that this is fuel for derision, but what do I care), I think that certain sonic improvements can happen for some people (and I include myself) that they (meaning me) cannot immediately consciously identify; however, the improvements are recognized in the subconscious and result in increased listening pleasure over time. And I also believe that these small sonic improvements add up.

A few years ago I was talking to one of the guys in sales at Cary (they will actually talk to you on the phone if you want to buy something) about some Amperex Bugle Boys 6DJ8s they had, and in the course of the conversation he told me, "Tube rolling can make you neurotic." Tubes are easy to take in and out and with certain tube swaps sonic changes are easily and instantly recognized. It’s a bit more work to get behind my gear the way I have it and then get to the outlets that I put in a bit of an out of the way place, and if tube rolling could cause neurosis, I think that a whole lot of time trying to A/B power cords might put me into full blown psychosis. However, with that typed, if I had spent several hundred to a k or more on one power cord, I would be definitely trying to hear a difference,

@ghdprentice  , as I have said before:  I always appreciate your perspective and the way you present it.

@audphile1 

Hopping back in for a listen late last night revealed a slightly harsh treble that I didn’t detect few hours prior listening to the same track. 

this is interesting.  Although I don't think for me it is the same thing going on as it is for you, there have been nights I have played a disc and the effect has been magical, or if not magical, at least very impacting.  Then, like maybe a day or two or three or a week later I go back and I want to repeat that magical or at least impactful auditory experience with the same disc (and no changes made to the system in the mean time) and it just doesn't happen.  What I heard last time is not there.  It can be quite disappointing.  

In other words, what brought me close to aural orgasm last time, often sounds worse the next time.  It could be that the musical notes do not seem as round or as full as the last time, or that the guitar work does not float in the air in front of me quite as spectacularly as I remembered from the last time, or I am not hearing the same subtle inflection in a piece of vocal work that I swear I heard the last time, or even, as you say, I hear a harsher sounding treble than I did the last time.  

I generally chalk this up to:

a) I really was NOT hearing what I  THOUGHT I heard the time before

or b) the mind works in mysterious ways and I need to enjoy what sounds good to me WHEN it sounds good to me.

I didn't mean to ramble on like this when I started typing this reply, but, and this is sort of unrelated, back in the mid '90s up until 9/11 I worked in a great shop (except it was a sheet metal shop, so it was often noisy) and I kept an old boom-box type radio at my work table and I listened to what I thought was a great public radio station (WYEP 91.3) because they used to play a lot of stuff that no one else played that I had never heard before and quite often I would hear something or someone and think, "That sounds great!"  So then when the weekend came, I would go to Camelot Music or The Wall and buy or order the CD, and frequently it did not impress me on my system at home the way it did on that crappy boom-box radio at my work table.

Oh well . . . lRamble On. . . .

. . . as an example of what I was talking about, I remember once I was listening to the red book mfsl Eric Clapton/Slow Hand and on the mellower tracks, Lay Down Sally and May You Never and Next Time You See Her, it was so apparent to me that the scratchiness in his voice was not due to a less than stellar disc, but it was due to the abuse his vocal cords had been taking with the cigarettes and what have you (Slow Hand was released near the end of '77, and I think they were all pretty much living in the fast lane about then), and the guitar work on those tracks, in particular, was just hanging in mid air in front of me.  I don't know that I have ever quite heard that ever since.

Anyway, what my system does for me with a good source CD is that with the lights off and my eyes shut, the walls in my small room disappear as do the speakers.  Don't get me wrong--I am not saying that I am fooled into believing that it is live as opposed to being Memorex . . . that isn't happening.  I assume that is what is meant by those who talk about experiencing The Holy Grail.  But my goal is to enhance what my system is doing for me.  I am happy to experiment with $150 worth of power cords to see if that makes it inches better for me.

@mrdecibel   , this next is not intended to be sarcastic or confrontational or to express anything negative . . . I am truly and simply curious.  I didn't take what you typed as a rant and I did not take it,badly the way it was offered.  But given what you typed about what makes the listening experience work for you, why bother with upgraded equipment and power cords and etc?  

I am sorry you did not enjoy Clapton's voice on your system.

@mrdecibel  , actually you misunderstood me--I did enjoy his voice when I realized that it was not the result of a poor source CD, but was the result of the abuse that his vocal cords were probably taking.  In other words, I enjoyed it when it hit me that that was his real voice at the time.

Sorry, @mrdecibel , I feel that on Slow Hand, Clapton’s vocal work is often a bit rough and scratchy sounding, and I am personally thinking that this is probably due to the excesses of that period of time. On a quick edit: now that we have been talking about it, I am going to pull that CD out for my session tonight or for tomorrow and see how it strikes me. Aural memories are tough, but I do remember thinking that it was the voice of guy who had probably been smoking cigarettes heavily, and that may have been the least of the abuses that was happening at the time. I think I may have thought it was a bit nasally sounding, but as I typed, I will give it a listen soon as I break my new stuff in.

@jea48 , no, that adapter was never mentioned until now (in this thread). That sounds like a great idea. As it stands, I am coming up on 50 hours on one of the cords (CDP) and coming up on 40 hours on the cords for the amp and preamp.

@jea48

CDP... Maybe will burned-in in a year or two, if ever.

serious question, not intended to come off as sarcasm: then would the OEM power cords that come stock with CDPs take quite a while (a year ot two?) to burn in? And I assume that is because a CDP does not take a gob of amps? I could certainly order that adapter and run my refrigerator from that cable for a while . . . that would not be a problem.

To my ears it sounds like a blanket thrown over the speakers

As far as Slow Hand, I am not using any of my CDs for A/Bs yet, I am just going through my red books (saving the SACDS for later) and playing a lot of stuff I haven’t listened to for some time as the speaker break in and power cord burn in process. It’s actually kind of interesting to hear those CDs I haven’t spent time with for a while. I pulled Slow Hand out to the ’To Be Played’ section after that last short interchange with @mrdecibel .

It reads as if you find Slow Hand to sound somewhat muffled? If I am not putting words in your mouth? I found it that way myself for quite a while. (I remember I bought that 8-track when I was in the Air Force back in ’79, and at parties we’d crank up Clapton’s cover of Cocaine on someone’s rack system, and we loved it back then.) Then back in maybe ’94 or ’95 or ’96 or so after I started putting together a better system and started buying "audiophile CDs", I picked up the MFSL red book of Slow Hand, but I still didn’t find it a sonic gem. I had my system hibernating from around ’08 to late in ’17, but sometime after I woke it back up, I started listening to that MFSL remaster of Slow Hand, and I found the guitar work to float in front of me and actually sound pristine. The more I listened to Clapton’s vocals the more I started to think that it wasn’t the mastering or the recording that was making the vocal part of the recording sound rough, I started to think that it was that his voice was in bad shape at the time and I was confusing muffled with nasal. So after this short discussion Dan and I had a bit ago, I did some googles on Eric Clapton, and it appears as if after getting off of heroin he was drinking like a fish and doing (I assume snorting) a lot of coke. (And this was when he was recording Slow Hand.) I bet he was smoking a lot of cigarettes as well. I also noted on that remaster I have, that in contrast to Clapton’s vocals, I thought that Marcy Levy’s backups and accompanying vocals sounded quite good. I can not remember when I had this epiphany, I think it was after I put my SA10 in the system but before I bought the SLP05 (meaning I was still listening to the SLP90) and I will say, that going back a few of my posts, Slow Hand does not always strike in quite the same way, but I no longer hear it as sounding as if, as you put it, blankets have been thrown over the speakers. Going back to that post I made about this personal phenomena, @audphile1 suggested that the power coming into my house is better on some nights than others, and I am willing to consider that as possible, although I always used to attribute is to my ears being bipolar.

Oh well . . . as I have typed before and I am sure I will again: Ramble On.

@classicrockfan  , another country heard from and I am okay with that.  

Well . . . I did put five hours and some change on my new power cords and speakers, and as I typed that I was going to do, I did pull my red book MFSL Slow Hand off the shelf and give it a spin.  I jotted down some observations and I had intended to revisit the subject here, but I don't think I will bother with it.  We all listen for what we listen for and it may not be the same for all of us; I suppose that the priority should be our personal enjoyment, and I will say that I enjoyed what I heard.

I am ordering the adapter.  Another experiment that is quite affordable.

@immatthewj I have a CD rip of Slowhand and Clapton sounds tired singing on that album and he is definitely struggling a bit there. Sounds like he’s singing with a sore throat on “Next Time You See Her”. 

@audphile1  , exactly!  There was a time when I thought that Slow Hand was just poorly recorded or poorly mixed or poorly mastered or poorly whatever, but going back to several posts ago, one magical night it struck me that I was hearing what his voice sounded like at the time.  As I also typed previously:  in contrast, the guitar work hangs in the air in front of me and Marcy Levy's voice sounds great.

the ground pin of a power cable is often used to ground the shielding of the cable itself, which reduces noise and helps to address EMI. So you may find that using a high quality 3-prong AC cable on a 2-prong unit to be superior to other high end 2-prong cables. 

@blisshifi  , I do not think that aspect was ever mentioned until now.

This is a great thread all from a ground wire question.love the physics and articles.and the debates

@mark200mph  , welcome to the A'gon forums!  (And this particular thread never even got ugly.)

I listen to Clapton because of his guitar playing, and his voice. I do not sit there analyzing his health conditions during the making of a particular recording.

Then maybe, @mrdecibel  , you are missing something, because an artist's health (mental AND physical) condition at the time of a recording probably had a big impact on the finished product.

 but what am I missing?

If certain recordings do not make you consider the (mental and/or physical) health of the artist, perhaps you are not truly engaging with that artist or that performance.  Sorry for not being gentle with my words.

How about I no longer post on this thread, as there seems to be a gap with communication, and I am sorry.

Oops!  Sorry, @mrdecibel  , I either missed this or it was added as an edit.  No problem . . . this is an internet forum and we are all free to come and go as we please.  But I don't know what to make of "engagement between the listener and the musician" if one completely discounts or dismisses the emotional and/or physical state of the musician, as I am almost positive that state had an impact on his or her final product that we hear from our systems. 

I think that when Richard and Linda Thompson were splitting up, this probably  had an effect on their product.  Probably the strife that Fleetwood Mac was experiencing had an effect on Rumors.  If the recordings and the systems I was hearing the recordings on were revealing enough to illustrate that, I would consider it a win and enjoy that aspect.

That's all.  Sorry if my presentation was hurtful.

Think of it this way…whatever Clapton or any other musician was going thru or dealing with at the time the recording was made makes that recording unique. It gives it that special vibe.  That’s something we should probably embrace when listening and that unique vibe plays into our enjoyment and appreciation of that recording. 

@audphile1 , absolutely! But that did not strike me about Slow Hand immediately. However, on the night that it did, that was what I would consider "engagement between the listener and the musician."

@audphile1  , without any sarcasm whatsoever, I envy your critical ear.  Or maybe I don't--I can see where it could be a curse.

I still have not put a full 100 hours on the new speakers I installed in my system at roughly the same time as the three power cords.  There are sessions that sound better than other sessions, and I am attributing this to the speaker break in process, but the cords could be involved as well.  After I have 100+ on the speakers, I may play with those cords, but I will never be able to pick out/identify the type of detail you have described.  I will only vaguely know that I think I like it better one way or the other.

And also, with no sarcasm intended, when you put in a new piece of gear, be it a pre or an amp or a front end source, how much time do you give it with the OEM PC?  And what would your description of the tone of an OEM PC be?

So this morning I swapped in the stock cord and the problem is solved.

@audphile1  , to clarify, so I am not misunderstanding, are you saying that the power cord that came with the unit is preferable to your ears than the Preffair?