A stupid question(s) about power cords

Yup. You got it. Funny thing is right out of the box the Preffair was excellent. As it broke in it took a 💩 turn. 

So this morning I swapped in the stock cord and the problem is solved.

@audphile1  , to clarify, so I am not misunderstanding, are you saying that the power cord that came with the unit is preferable to your ears than the Preffair?

I’ve noticed fatigue setting in 5-10min in. Few days ago I thought it was power issues due to everyone running AC 24/7 amongst other things that impact power quality. I tried listening in the morning and late at night and the effect is the same. So this morning I swapped in the stock cord and the problem is solved.
Once again, the effects I’ve experienced with the preffair power cord were on my Aurender N200 streamer. The rest of the power cables are Nordost Heimdall 2 on DAC and pre, Nordost Frey 2 on Pass X260.8. Few days in I kind of noticed first signs of problems with this cord but was hoping break in will help but it’s only gotten worse. It is what it is.

@audphile1  , without any sarcasm whatsoever, I envy your critical ear.  Or maybe I don't--I can see where it could be a curse.

I still have not put a full 100 hours on the new speakers I installed in my system at roughly the same time as the three power cords.  There are sessions that sound better than other sessions, and I am attributing this to the speaker break in process, but the cords could be involved as well.  After I have 100+ on the speakers, I may play with those cords, but I will never be able to pick out/identify the type of detail you have described.  I will only vaguely know that I think I like it better one way or the other.

And also, with no sarcasm intended, when you put in a new piece of gear, be it a pre or an amp or a front end source, how much time do you give it with the OEM PC?  And what would your description of the tone of an OEM PC be?

So my conclusion on the Preffair 10awg OFC power cord with copper connectors is that it’s going back with just over 300hrs on it. 
It started out great then went through a bit of a rollercoaster and settled on being thin and undefined in the lower regions with bass being distant and light without much body or definition, the highs are very over accentuated partially due to lack of bass. The mids are good with decent clarity. 
It’s very possible that the sound characteristics I’m hearing are due to the copper connectors. I recall the TWL Seven Plus that has pure copper connectors sounded slightly bright but had excellent bass which this cord lacks so the balance is more towards highs and it just rings. It’s a high quality build. Too bad it didn’t work out as I was hoping. 

Classy response, not unexpected. Is alcohol a problem?

"keep your cash , 

your welcome"

- your comments seem to focus on money and sarcasm, remember this is an audio site. Just because you don't or won't hear differences only speaks for you and depletes the value of your contribution.

Think of it this way…whatever Clapton or any other musician was going thru or dealing with at the time the recording was made makes that recording unique. It gives it that special vibe.  That’s something we should probably embrace when listening and that unique vibe plays into our enjoyment and appreciation of that recording. 

@audphile1 , absolutely! But that did not strike me about Slow Hand immediately. However, on the night that it did, that was what I would consider "engagement between the listener and the musician."

By the way the Preffair power cable is back in the system and and I think it’s settling down. It’s more evenly balanced. My conclusion is it’s a fine power cord for the money. Is it as good as my Nordost Heimdall 2 or Frey 2? No. But it’s more than adequate. To get to a noteworthy improvement you will probably have to spend at least 4-5 times as much. And in systems where this power cord lands that would be funds better directed towards component upgrades and not cables. 

Think of it this way…whatever Clapton or any other musician was going thru or dealing with at the time the recording was made makes that recording unique. It gives it that special vibe. That’s something we should probably embrace when listening and that unique vibe plays into our enjoyment and appreciation of that recording. I don’t think we’re deeming it a defect in case of Slowhand with how Clapton sounds. It’s quite the opposite.

How about I no longer post on this thread, as there seems to be a gap with communication, and I am sorry.

Oops!  Sorry, @mrdecibel  , I either missed this or it was added as an edit.  No problem . . . this is an internet forum and we are all free to come and go as we please.  But I don't know what to make of "engagement between the listener and the musician" if one completely discounts or dismisses the emotional and/or physical state of the musician, as I am almost positive that state had an impact on his or her final product that we hear from our systems. 

I think that when Richard and Linda Thompson were splitting up, this probably  had an effect on their product.  Probably the strife that Fleetwood Mac was experiencing had an effect on Rumors.  If the recordings and the systems I was hearing the recordings on were revealing enough to illustrate that, I would consider it a win and enjoy that aspect.

That's all.  Sorry if my presentation was hurtful.

 but what am I missing?

If certain recordings do not make you consider the (mental and/or physical) health of the artist, perhaps you are not truly engaging with that artist or that performance.  Sorry for not being gentle with my words.

Matt, no doubt Clapton might have gone through many "takes" to get to the finalized and selected one, but what am I missing? Tell me, what am I missing? Do you know what "autotune" is. This was not a technology available back then. If Clapton was not well during the process of making Slowhand, it would definitely sound it, as we have all determined discussing his voice. I still enjoy listening to it and it was a very popular release, but it is not my favorite from him, as I mentioned earlier. You went through an entire "analysis" during your listening sessions. That to me, says something about you and the way you listen. I listen for enjoyment, nothing more, and my system conveys it all to deliver me that enjoyment. If Clapton sounded ill, weak and tired during the finalization of Slowhand, it would be up to the listener to enjoy it, or not. When I listen to Sinatra during his final years, I do not sit there wondering "oh, I wish he did not get old, and sounded the same as 50 years earlier. If I wanted to listen to Sinatra at his earliest times, I would be listening to him, then, at his earliest times. I have lots of Sinatra throughout his entire career, and I enjoy listening to him, his band and the arrangements, always. I am just not understanding your point of "maybe I am missing something". I miss nothing. I once again apologize for not being gentle with my words. How about I no longer post on this thread, as there seems to be a gap with communication, and I am sorry. My best, MrD.

I listen to Clapton because of his guitar playing, and his voice. I do not sit there analyzing his health conditions during the making of a particular recording.

Then maybe, @mrdecibel  , you are missing something, because an artist's health (mental AND physical) condition at the time of a recording probably had a big impact on the finished product.

@mrdecibel will keep it on the fridge as long as my patience (not my virtue) permits

I’ll report back

@immatthewj Lay Down Sally….it’s just spinning in my head and I can’t get rid of it.

Btw when I listened to my FLAC CD rip I compared it to Qobuz 24bit version. I much prefer the rip. Even through the Qobuz hi-res version sounds a bit bigger in the bass, it has a processed feel to it. The CD rip sounds more natural. Just to add some context…my CD rips are on the Samsung SSD mounted inside the Aurender N200 streamer. In both cases though I just enjoyed the music. Good album and I’m not really a Clapton fan. 

 

Well . . . I did put five hours and some change on my new power cords and speakers, and as I typed that I was going to do, I did pull my red book MFSL Slow Hand off the shelf and give it a spin.  I jotted down some observations and I had intended to revisit the subject here, but I don't think I will bother with it.  We all listen for what we listen for and it may not be the same for all of us; I suppose that the priority should be our personal enjoyment, and I will say that I enjoyed what I heard.

@audphile1 I took you seriously...lol. Keep in mind, most modern refrigerators cycle between on and off. I would give it a full week, or more. 

Beer tastes a bit crisper with this power cord on the fridge. Who would have thought!!!

Just kidding. It is on the fridge and cooking. I’ll throw it back into the system Tuesday/Wednesday

Of course, recordings such as Bill Frisell’s East West, which is all live tracks, might not need that synchronization, but it is apparent that eq and other studio things were still incorporated .....but, the musicianship....is GREAT. BTW, normally I would be at the community pool, but it is being re surfaced now. 99 degrees in CF, and the pool in not accessible. BS I tell you! My ex is enjoying the pool I built us, along with the house I built us. Life goes on. Enjoy!

No doubt many of us have ears/brains and systems that allow us to hear these changes/differences. I cannot even go as far as saying improvements, because this is dependent on each of us individually. But, folks like crf, who claims to hear no differences, is still sad to me. The list that @audphile1 came up with why this is so, is quite on the money. Using Clapton as the example here, over the years, his voice has changed, and his guitar virtuosity has changed. A great system exposes this, and to me is one on the wonderful aspects of listening. I listen to Clapton because of his guitar playing, and his voice. I do not sit there analyzing his health conditions during the making of a particular recording. However I will say, there are other recordings of Clapton I listen to more than Slowhand (a bit countryesh imo), as I agree, he was likely struggling a bit during that time (when I saw him at the Garden that time I mentioned above, he was "out of it"). Sad really. The same can be said for any other musicians of your choice. Sinatra, from the earliest days to his latest, sounds different, but he maintained his phrasing for the majority throughout. When a recording is made, it is generally a testament that the artists are "at their best". A great system (as with my system) allows "everything" to be heard. I hear every manipulation being created by the engineers/mixing folks; the equalization, the compression, and the timing, synchronizing the individual tracks to form one performance. This, to me, is the greatest achievement during the recording process, and this is why, I can appreciate listening to a studio recording and hear "a performance". I however simply focus on the "musicianship", not the tinny treble, the bloated bass or the added reverb, of a particular recording. These are the reasons too many folks only listen to the better "sounding" recordings, and this too is sad. Listening to Cream, Blind Faith, and his earlier works with the Yardbirds and the Bluesbreakers, my system and I, are as one ! I am listening "to their playing". If people can learn to do this (yes, I said learn), much money can be saved in the long run. These are recordings, people. There is vital information not being enjoyed by many of you. Here I go again....my "musicianship" rant. So sorry. My best, MrD.

I am ordering the adapter.  Another experiment that is quite affordable.

@immatthewj I have a CD rip of Slowhand and Clapton sounds tired singing on that album and he is definitely struggling a bit there. Sounds like he’s singing with a sore throat on “Next Time You See Her”. 

@audphile1  , exactly!  There was a time when I thought that Slow Hand was just poorly recorded or poorly mixed or poorly mastered or poorly whatever, but going back to several posts ago, one magical night it struck me that I was hearing what his voice sounded like at the time.  As I also typed previously:  in contrast, the guitar work hangs in the air in front of me and Marcy Levy's voice sounds great.

the ground pin of a power cable is often used to ground the shielding of the cable itself, which reduces noise and helps to address EMI. So you may find that using a high quality 3-prong AC cable on a 2-prong unit to be superior to other high end 2-prong cables. 

@blisshifi  , I do not think that aspect was ever mentioned until now.

This is a great thread all from a ground wire question.love the physics and articles.and the debates

@mark200mph  , welcome to the A'gon forums!  (And this particular thread never even got ugly.)

This is a great thread all from a ground wire question.love the physics and articles.and the debates

@jea48 yes it’s a guesstimate based on my experience with power cords. Except for a Furutech 55n with FI-60 NCF plugs that took over 600hrs (I lost count) on Pass amp to stabilize, all other cables no matter where they were placed took 200-300 tops to settle. I ordered the adapter though as it’s a good tool to have around. and will run this power cable for few days powering the fridge. Just as an experiment as I’ve not used this method to break in power cables.
I don’t want to overthink or complicate this too much for a $50 power cord. I’m just enjoying the music and the moody break in process this cable is going thru. The Aurender N200 the cable is feeding consumes 15w (play) and it’s on repeat round the clock. Fridge should expedite the process so we’ll see.

@immatthewj I have a CD rip of Slowhand and Clapton sounds tired singing on that album and he is definitely struggling a bit there. Sounds like he’s singing with a sore throat on “Next Time You See Her”. 

I only read the first page of this thread, so apologies if this was already covered.

In addition to connecting the chassis and any required internal components to ground (if it is inherent by the component’s design), the ground pin of a power cable is often used to ground the shielding of the cable itself, which reduces noise and helps to address EMI. So you may find that using a high quality 3-prong AC cable on a 2-prong unit to be superior to other high end 2-prong cables. 

I am of the impression that if a piece of equipment is connected to a new PC and at least turned on or on "standby" it will also achieve "credit" for burn in hours. It doesn't necessarily have to be playing music? I have a new power cord attached to my power distributor and am leaving for 2 weeks, my thoughts were if a few things connected to the power distributor (Shunyata) are in standby mode will help burn in the PC connected to the Shunyata?

No spinning discs required. Just keep the player on. Or connect a laptop (or iPad) to it and stream YouTube playlists or Qobuz, Tidal whatever via usb while not listening to CDs. SA-10 has a USB input and is pretty decent used as a DAC. If it goes into standby due to inactivity with CD this will keep it on. There are ways to keep the SA-10 on and consuming power. No one said anything about spinning a disc 24/7. 

@immatthewj the SA-10 power consumption is 50w. If you leave the player on 24/7 it will be sufficient to break in that power cable within about 200-300hrs. I have it on my streamer and if you recall I stated the sound was very good initially then hours later I heard harshness in the treble. Last night the highs sounded dull. Not rolled off or muffled, but just dull…no sparkle. So it’s changing even on my streamer that doesn’t consume more power than your SACD player does. With the adapter running your fridge with that cable it will probably get to its final state in about 100-150hrs. I ordered the adapter by the way. Will run my fridge with it and see if my beer tastes any better…just kidding. 
As to quality of power, usually after 11pm is when my system sounds best. 
I’ll keep you posted on how the sound changes as the cable breaks in. 
Also, I finally got the Nordost Heimdall 2 and that’s on the DAC now. I’m thinking eventually I’ll end up picking up another Heimdall 2 or Frey 2 and keep the Preffair as a spare but I’m in no particular hurry to do that. 

@classicrockfan  , another country heard from and I am okay with that.  

@jea48

CDP... Maybe will burned-in in a year or two, if ever.

serious question, not intended to come off as sarcasm: then would the OEM power cords that come stock with CDPs take quite a while (a year ot two?) to burn in? And I assume that is because a CDP does not take a gob of amps? I could certainly order that adapter and run my refrigerator from that cable for a while . . . that would not be a problem.

To my ears it sounds like a blanket thrown over the speakers

As far as Slow Hand, I am not using any of my CDs for A/Bs yet, I am just going through my red books (saving the SACDS for later) and playing a lot of stuff I haven’t listened to for some time as the speaker break in and power cord burn in process. It’s actually kind of interesting to hear those CDs I haven’t spent time with for a while. I pulled Slow Hand out to the ’To Be Played’ section after that last short interchange with @mrdecibel .

It reads as if you find Slow Hand to sound somewhat muffled? If I am not putting words in your mouth? I found it that way myself for quite a while. (I remember I bought that 8-track when I was in the Air Force back in ’79, and at parties we’d crank up Clapton’s cover of Cocaine on someone’s rack system, and we loved it back then.) Then back in maybe ’94 or ’95 or ’96 or so after I started putting together a better system and started buying "audiophile CDs", I picked up the MFSL red book of Slow Hand, but I still didn’t find it a sonic gem. I had my system hibernating from around ’08 to late in ’17, but sometime after I woke it back up, I started listening to that MFSL remaster of Slow Hand, and I found the guitar work to float in front of me and actually sound pristine. The more I listened to Clapton’s vocals the more I started to think that it wasn’t the mastering or the recording that was making the vocal part of the recording sound rough, I started to think that it was that his voice was in bad shape at the time and I was confusing muffled with nasal. So after this short discussion Dan and I had a bit ago, I did some googles on Eric Clapton, and it appears as if after getting off of heroin he was drinking like a fish and doing (I assume snorting) a lot of coke. (And this was when he was recording Slow Hand.) I bet he was smoking a lot of cigarettes as well. I also noted on that remaster I have, that in contrast to Clapton’s vocals, I thought that Marcy Levy’s backups and accompanying vocals sounded quite good. I can not remember when I had this epiphany, I think it was after I put my SA10 in the system but before I bought the SLP05 (meaning I was still listening to the SLP90) and I will say, that going back a few of my posts, Slow Hand does not always strike in quite the same way, but I no longer hear it as sounding as if, as you put it, blankets have been thrown over the speakers. Going back to that post I made about this personal phenomena, @audphile1 suggested that the power coming into my house is better on some nights than others, and I am willing to consider that as possible, although I always used to attribute is to my ears being bipolar.

Oh well . . . as I have typed before and I am sure I will again: Ramble On.

@mrdecibel 

Yes i have. Probably the same 10awg power cables I bought off Amazon priced between 30 and 50 depending on the length. I like them a lot because they make me feel very good looking at these beautiful power cables not that they make an audible difference 

Why do fuses sound different? Why does copper sound different than rhodium? Equipment break in?

Why do some people believe 1+1=3?

Later

@classicrockfan , Matt is breaking in some Amazon 10 gauge power cables I had recommended to him (x3, for cd player, preamp and amp). I generally respect engineers, but not when they say power cables do not make a difference, over the cheap included cords. Have you tried a $50 2meter cable off Amazon and used your ears? Why do they sound different? Why do fuses sound different? Why does copper sound different than rhodium? Equipment break in? Don't believe in that either? With many of us here (I feel comfortable grouping us golden eared listeners together) who actually listen and have systems capable of us hearing differences/improvements, I am truly sorry you feel the way you do. Enjoy your factory cables. Always, MrD.

@immatthewj 

power cord upgrade (from the stock cord) on my Maranzt SA10 (SACDP). The power cord receptacle on that particular component does not have a male equipment ground pin--only the neutral and hot pins. Therefore the cord supplied by Maranzt is a two pole (if that is the right terminology) cord.

The only power cord you ever need for your CDP is the stock cord that came with the unit. I'm an electrical engineer who knows a thing or two about cable electronics. If you want some thick substantial power cable go buy a 10 awg cable on Amazon for $30 will certainly please your eyes and make you feel good. These cable resellers aka major brands sell those cables adding 10x or even 50x profit and the price tag has absolutely nothing to do with improving the s.q. of an audio equipment. And do not pay attention to the trolls on this forum they are here to mislead you to spend thousands of dollars on so called major brand cables. Hoping you're not one of them.

Sorry, @mrdecibel , I feel that on Slow Hand, Clapton’s vocal work is often a bit rough and scratchy sounding, and I am personally thinking that this is probably due to the excesses of that period of time. On a quick edit: now that we have been talking about it, I am going to pull that CD out for my session tonight or for tomorrow and see how it strikes me. Aural memories are tough, but I do remember thinking that it was the voice of guy who had probably been smoking cigarettes heavily, and that may have been the least of the abuses that was happening at the time. I think I may have thought it was a bit nasally sounding, but as I typed, I will give it a listen soon as I break my new stuff in.

@jea48 , no, that adapter was never mentioned until now (in this thread). That sounds like a great idea. As it stands, I am coming up on 50 hours on one of the cords (CDP) and coming up on 40 hours on the cords for the amp and preamp.

Finished my mods on an amplifier a week ago and have since been letting it sing along with my system, 24 /7 (an advantage of solid state gear, and having a private, dedicated listening room). I played the Medeski Martin and Wood cd "friday afternoon in the universe" this morning, at a very realistic level. WOW just WOW. Enjoy ! MrD.

" I did enjoy his voice "when I realized" that it was not the result of a poor source cd but was the result of the abuse that his vocal cords were probably taking ". " I enjoyed it "when it hit me" that that was his real voice at the time. Not really sure what to make of it. Slow Hand, as every other Clapton cd I own, showcases his voice, at that time, with exemplary precision. There is no " when I realized ". I have no idea what you are saying....unless, you went into the listening session with one kind of attitude (negative, not feeling great), and then a bit later, the music uplifted you and pulled you in. Discussions of moods we have when listening, is interesting. If I am not feeling up to snuff (however you may interpret that) I will never go sit in my listening seat and listen. My system is never used to get me out of a funk. When I do listen, I am fully awake, energized and excited that I have chosen this or that recorded performance for the experience of listening pleasure and entertainment. My best, MrD.

People are not understanding, Matt purchased some very well made and excellent sq for the money, 10 gauge power cables by Preffair, on my recommendation. He wanted to jump in and get his feet wet with better cables than stock, at an INTRO price. Without spending crazy money, these make quite a lot of improvement. They are not broken in yet and will, like everything else, get better with time on them. 

I am sorry you did not enjoy Clapton's voice on your system.

@mrdecibel  , actually you misunderstood me--I did enjoy his voice when I realized that it was not the result of a poor source CD, but was the result of the abuse that his vocal cords were probably taking.  In other words, I enjoyed it when it hit me that that was his real voice at the time.

Matt, I did not offer anything, except an opinion or two with my many years of experience, and I apologize if I was not gentle in my presentation. I momentarily became a teacher, and no one enjoys being a student, especially us audio folks. Getting back to your question...if you can understand " musicianship " and " music composition ", you would understand me and what I listen to. Why do I need better equipment ? My system highlights every played and sung note, dynamically, quickly, articulately, coherently, authoritatively, cleanly, dynamically (oops, twice) just as I like it. My worst sounding recordings those that (many here would not listen to on their systems) as there is a lot of information within the recordings. Listenend to some Beck / Stewart collaborations earlier. A fabulous listen. I am sorry you did not enjoy Clapton's voice on your system. I always enjoy him. Anything he does. I saw Clapton at MS Garden around '86, and he was not doing well on stage. There was another guitarist doing the famous Clapton licks. Phil Collins was the drummer, and they performed In The Air Tonight. Garden had great concerts, and you needed ear protection at times, depending on who the sound man was. My best always, MrD.