A stupid question(s) about power cords

For information on your original questions call Joe Abrams at Equus Audio or MIT Cables. They have both been helpful to me in the past.  

                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

                       Another runway builder, to be disregarded!

       Enjoy experimenting with your systems and enhanced musical pleasure, @immatthewj  (et al).

 I do believe that an improvement could be made without me fully realizing what the improvement tangibly is--just that my level of comfort and satisfaction has increased to an extent. Possibly or even probably a small extent. But small + small = slightly bigger than small. 

                                                            +1

          System improvements always prove incremental and some: more profound than others.     Just another of the myriad of VARIABLES, when it comes to this hobby.

           btw: there are no, "stupid questions".     Just some of the responses one gets, when making an attempt at a bit of education/enlightenment.

                                                   Happy listening!

You'll be fine with either. And, newsflash, you will NOT hear a difference besides one caused by confirmation bias.

Thanks @mrdecibel ; I will keep you posted. I had to unplug everything to facilitate other goings on in the room, but I am hoping to have everything hooked back up by tomorrow. Life if full of compromises. I do believe that an improvement could be made without me fully relaizing what the improvement tangibly is--just that my level of comfort and satisfaction has increased to an extent. Possibly or even probably a small extent. But small + small = slightly bigger than small. I don’t talk a lot about this, because it opens things up for nay-sayers. "What!? So you THINK there MIGHT be an improvement in your SQ, but you don’t know for sure what it is, and you don’t know for sure IF it is? Seriously??" But the thing is, I do not have the golden ear so I do not immediately recognize differences in SQ and what they are. But it’s my time and my dime and if I wasn’t okay with it I wouldn’t do it.

A lot of pressure to be under, having to report back on a power cable difference. I want to say, this difference will not be as huge as changing out a preamp, but ime, as much as a tube. You need to know your system. You need to know the particular music you have chosen. You should enjoy the music you have chosen, and simply relax during the evaluation. This is harder with tube gear, again ime, because when a unit powers up, it can take more than 3-4 hours to be at its best. One of the many reasons I enjoy ss gear. Ready 100%, 100% of the time. I am sensitive to gear warm up and break in (another topic that has been discussed ad nauseam). Anyway Matt...be patient and enjoy yourself. The improvements will show up, on any device. Some of us are here for you ! MrD.

Cool. Sounds like the room is good enough to test the cables. 
Let us know how the amplifier sounds with the new cable 

@audphile1 and @mrdecibel

The room is near field and untreated eccept for the throw tugs I have covered the floor with. If the source material is good or better than good it will sing and the walls and speakers will disappear . . . a substandard source disc sounds horrible.

As far as bright, I wouldn’t call it that (except with certain discs); however, the SLP-05 replaced a modded SLP-90 which was a lot warmer. I got a lot more air and detail and a wider soundstage with more definition wit6h the SLP-05, but sometimes it seems on the cool side to me. I understand that an acoustically treated room would bring it to another level, but we just are not there yet.

@immatthewj I would hope that anyone who owns gear as you do, would have a dedicated room, or at least, a room that you have done some "conditioning" to. If the speaker/room/listening seat is not the best it could be, you are missing out on a lot of your audio investment. IME....just saying. MrD.

Yes the default sounded best to me as well. And if I’m not mistaken when you play an SACD the filter selection is disabled. I didn’t like the other filters and dither options as they just didn’t sound right to me. 

I would like to add though that the SA-10 isn’t a bright sounding player. How are your room acoustics? Area rug? Any absorption or diffusion on side walls?

I can do that, @audphile1  .  I guess  I was more interested in it's effect on the front end due to being based upon what the salesman from MD told me (when he was no doubt trying to sell a power cord as well as the CDP).  

And I had been wanting to ask you what your thoughts were on the filter selections with the SA 10?  I hate to admit it, but in the four years I have owned that component, I have never experimented--I have always left it in the 'default' setting.

(I seem to hate being contronted with choices and decisions.)  

@immatthewj I would put my best cord on the amp first and try it there for a few days. Then return to stock on the amp and listen to few of the same tracks. Then introduce the upgraded cord on digital and determine where it performs best.

@immatthewj Get one for your power amp as well. $150. all in for 3. You will grow into a believer, and a happy listener. They are so good for the price. My best, MrD.

@audphile1 , yeah...too easy to slip into a 'bug hunt'.  Although sometimes a necessity to get distracted from the why into the how.  I'm happy to be one that isn't in a situation where 'high-level scrutiny' of my IC & PC's demand that.

*L*  I'd need a sizable Lotto pick to advance on to that plane of audio that would include a space capable to demanding anal-lysis of mosquito chases.... ;)

It would take awhile as well, which would run out prior to demise of yours unruly; i'm not sure I'd want to haul that baggage into the Unknown Afterlife pending....

...not that I'm in any sort of hurry in that regard.... 

Thanks, @mrdecibel  , I was going to get back with you later on today and see what your opinion of that was.  As I typed a bit previously, I opted for gold plated as if I could get a bit more warmth going, I'd be happy.  So that settles it, I guess I am going to get another one, the same as this one I have now,  for my preamp.

@immatthewj fyi, the carbon fiber shell does not offer any more shielding, as the cables themselves are shielded. Theoretically, the aluminum alloy shell should offer more shielding than the carbon fiber shell. 

Enjoy....until it becomes ’not good enough’ once again.... 😏

@asvjerry this happens frequently. I won’t deny it. But then again it happens to us because we hear the difference and we want to hear what some other power cord or interconnect will sound like. Not the best situation to be in because it almost always means you’re switching to analytical listening looking for changes. Worst part about it is when some of us enter that mode it is extremely difficult to get out of. Guilty as charged here. I hate when it happens because instead of enjoying the music I’m comparing what row the mosquito farted in with cable A vs cable B. Was the mosquito better defined when he farted with one cable or component over the other? Was the mosquito fart texture better with one cable vs another?

If you hit a bullseye with synergy with your new cable or component, good chance you’re back to listening to music as opposed to listening to sounds much sooner. But it doesn’t always work this way. You get on a merry go round looking for your next upgrade. Sooner or later…

@audphile1 , it is installed connecting my SA10 to the grid and I put 3.5 hours on it tonight.  (in truth, I unplugged my system after I finished up this evening, so is not presently connected.)   I am starting out dabbling my toes in the water with the Preffair. I actually went with the gold plated option, because if Rhodium does make it a tad brighter, that is the opposite way I want to go as my system stands now. I love that SLP-05, but it is definitely not what my idea of a warm preamp is. Which I am not saying is a bad thing, but, again, if anything , my system could sound a touch warmer without hurting my feelings or my ears.

Speaking of preamps, I am going to get one for that also. However, I am thinking maybe I should put the cord that I just bought on to the preamp and go with the carbon fiber version for the SA10? I remember reading a previous power cord thread, and it was suggested that digital might benefit from being shielded?

@immatthewj it’s definitely very possible. 
So…when are you getting your upgraded power cable?

@audphile1 ....+(fill in your blank)....I’m totally ’in’ with ur previous enumerated list; in my distorted life, the only clarity in my hearing is through a pair of BTE aids for my compromise....

ICs’, PCs’, Driver lines.....? I’d have to dial ’em up to 11, and Still have to strain the between them to Perhaps notice anything above my tinnitus threshold...

So...the Lucky can, and the rest be Believers in the Maybe...

Enjoy....until it becomes 'not good enough' once again.... 😏

I think that there are some subtle sonic changes that can occur without certain listeners (and I include myself) from consciously realizing that the changes are actually occurring.  But I also think that they add up and make for a more pleasurable listening experience, although some listeners (myself included) do not always immediately recognize why they are finding it more enjoyable.

I already know what the response to this theory is.  

@audphile1 Great list. I have been part of this industry for a very long time. Since the internet, it simply amazes me how ignorant some people actually are. I am too adult to name call (but I will defend myself). However, to call someone "ignorant" is basically saying what you really mean, but politely. In this case, anyway. Enjoy ! MrD.

@audphile1

+1… all posts above.

As far as not hearing the difference. I think it need not come from hearing deficiency, but it is possible the person is not focused or interested in a (or a number of) particular aspect(s).

As an example from a different realm:

When my partner and I watch a movie… I might exclaim “look at that Monteblanc fountain pen”… and she will reply… “what pen? You are really observant.” Which may or may not be true, I am just observe different things. She may have observed the nuance of a dress that didn’t notice at all.

Anyway this is an attempt at understanding why some folks don’t seem to hear differences that are obvious to the rest of us. I probabably know 25 folks with extensive high end experience. We can swap a power cord or something and compare notes and make exactly the same observations… in great detail. One of these folks hardly ever hears the difference.

What I do not understand is why some folks that don’t hear anything and therefore adamantly call BS on it. If I am learning, I want to… well, learn and understand. So, I would be trying different things and reading, ask questions, and if I concluded I couldn’t hear a difference… I would just not read posts about wires, let alone join in. The reality is, by broadcasting “all this is BS”, you’re only broadcasting your own lack of understanding and overinflated ego.

audphile1,

Your list was very good.

In summary, if your equipment, room, ears are of such quality, the proper power cords will enhance the listening experience. Some more so than others. So, experiment is the word. 

Remember the phase it is only as good as the weakest link?

Those who disagree, can, but they are missing out the experience of truly hearing music performed at the best.

Enjoy! But please don’t knock something you have never tried; it makes you look foolish.

ozzy

@classicrockfan & @botrytis -

                                             Once again:

     Isn't it amusing: someone that doesn't even know what Physics considers the best electrical conductor, has the unmitigated gall to mention Science?

                                             What hubris!

                 A perfect example of The Dunning- Kruger Effect!

                              A JOKE?     YES (and a BAD ONE)!

                                 Let's make that: TWO bad jokes.

                                                      🙄

                                          Happy Listening!

Don’t run with scissors or put them in power plugs

👍

By the way I had no intention to sound obnoxious or arrogant with that list I posted earlier.

@audphile1  , I didn't take it that way at all--those all seem to me to be legitimate reasons.  Especially as far as hearing goes.

@immatthewj it’s all about trying the power cord upgrade for yourself. Some power cords result in very minor changes, some produce a difference big enough to go wow. One such example for me was the Nordost Brahma power cable that I tried on Rogue RP-1 preamp that I had at the time. The difference was huge. Bigger improvement than rolling tubes or changing interconnects.
It all depends. Your nearfield listening at lower volumes may not interact with room acoustics as much, allowing you to hear even subtle changes. Trying is the only way to find out.
By the way I had no intention to sound obnoxious or arrogant with that list I posted earlier. I’m going strictly by my experience. Expensive cables make no sense in the context of a system that can’t reveal the changes or the room that has acoustics of a tiled bathroom. The priority should always be components first, then room, then cables and tweaks.

I’d suggest one of the new Shunyata Gamma series 

@audphile1 , I suppose that to be honest I do fit into a couple of the categories on the list. Although, with all things being relative, my equipment is probably okay, my room is small and acoustically untreated and I am near-field listening (unobstructed equilateral triangle) which I have read on this site may take the room somewhat out of the equation. And I suppose that it is possible that I either lack the ability to hear all sonic changes or I may lack the ability to realize that I am hearing all the differences.

However I would say that: I did make a couple of equipment upgrades in the last four years (the SA10 that was kind of the driver for this thread and a SLP-05) and I was able to hear the differences, particularly with the SLP-05. Also I will say that I have been rolling some pairs of 6SN7s in the balanced input sockets of the SLP-05 and when I put a real nice pair in there, I definitely do hear it. Also, with good source material in the SA10, the sonic effect works magic on me. As an example, last night I played three discs that I liked the music on: the Sony SBM (redbook) remaster of Born To Run sounded like nails on a chalkboard, the MFSL redbook of Goodbye Yellow Brick Road sounded better on certain tracks but overall not a whole lot better, but when I put the MFSL/SACD of Cowboy Junkies Whites Off Earth Now . . . as I typed--magic. I wish my oldy but moldys could sound that good.

So with that last paragraph typed, I am not completely devoid of the ability to hear, and I’ll just have to see/hear how it goes. I’d also say that way way back in the days when I upgraded speaker wires and interconnects, I do not remember being slapped in the face with an "OMG, that sounds better!" but I do know that I felt a contentment when I was listening that drove me to listen longer and more frequently. Of course, I have no doubt that my hearing was better back then.

Ignorance

I missed nothing.
You can call it whatever. The list is 100% accurate. Post pictures of your system. I’ll prove it to you.

@audphile1 There is one big thing you missed in your list. Maybe there are no differences? That could be a possibility also.

That list was classic audiophile bullshit and arrogance.

@immatthewj As Eric Squires alluded to, the value of a 3-Wire plug into the wall will offer the connection to earth ground necessary to provide a shield for the cable. Whatever cable you buy, every manufacturer I’ve seen on record recommends a shielded cable. You can’t have a shield without a connection to an earth ground. The purpose of the shield is to provide a path by which to ‘drain’ EMI (electromagnetic interference) present in the environment from other electromagnetic producing components like transformers, speakers, other power cords which aren’t shielded. In your case it may be an advantage that there is no third pin on equipment, as it prevents the condition in which the shield is connected at both ends, which some interconnect cable incorrectly do. If the shield is connected to ground at both ends, it is no longer a shield, but a conductor.  (Although, in deference to Ralph of Atmasphere, it all depends on the implementation of internal circuitry.)

So, the two pins on the equipment end means that they have isolated the equipment from earth ground. My understanding is that this is an older, and some say better, way of making equipment safe. These days everyone has jumped on the GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupt) bandwagon, which requires an earth ground connection as an alternate path back to the utility. Regardless of the method, the purpose of fault protection is to carry the current back to the utility, without going through your body. 

l hope your new power cable enhances your experience of the music in your system.

                                                 Time for a rerun:

     Isn't it amusing: someone that doesn't even know what Physics considers the best electrical conductor, has the unmitigated gall to mention Science?

                                             What hubris!

                 A perfect example of The Dunning- Kruger Effect!

                              A JOKE?     YES (and a BAD ONE)!

There are reasons why some don’t hear difference between cables. 
most common…

1. Low quality components 

2. Bad room acoustics even with decent components this will be detrimental 

3. Bad setup - speakers are not properly placed, speakers blocked by large furniture, no designated listening position, no critical listening and again low quality components and room acoustics 

4. Listener is not able to hear differences - not everyone can. 
5. Listeners never tried and never will try upgraded cables. Thoughts based purely on “science” and or audio science review.

6. Doesn’t want to or doesn’t have the means to upgrade cables 

In any case, arguing with these people is pointless. 

"Science doesn’t back nonsense."

- Science doesn't listen either, humans do and all hear differently. If your benchmark is your system, it is most likely eclipsed by most others that post here.  

@mrdecibel actually you are. Science doesn’t back nonsense. Cable break in is nonsense. Your ears get used to sound in that time - how can carrying electrons change? That would violate the laws of physics.

I find y'all entertaining. Please gone on - tell me I am wrong and how....

Hi, @mrdecibel -

     Every cable, currently in my system, is silver (except for the 8TCs on my Subs).  ie:  1 pair) Kimber KS1030 & 1 pair) KS1130, 2) SR AC Master Coupler X pcs,  6) Zu Mother pcs and 1 pair) Analysis Plus Big Silver Ovals.

                          Nothing pricey, fancy or- the, "latest and greatest".

      It's always been my opinion: if you use a cable that has the best available conductor and dielectric, it just makes sense that you should be able to better hear whatever the rest of your components are putting out, good or bad.     Given the rest of the cable's construction is worth a damn, of course.

       Outside of some stridency, from some* 1970's, Siemens CCa's, that I tried in my CDP (it takes six); I've never had an issue with brightness.    This moment: there are six early 60's (grey plate) CCa's in there and the presentation is excellent.

         And: that's with the coaxial horn tweeters in my Emerald Physics speakers, which SHOULD let me know if there's a brightness issue.

          As you mention: ears are a MAJOR variable and just one of a plethora, when it comes to this hobby.

                      *I had tried two of those, combined with four of the grey plates.

                                             Happy Listening!

You are the joke my friend. Enjoy ! MrD.

ROFL - 100 HOURS. What a joke.

Well, the one that I THOUGHT I had ordered was rhodium plated (2 meters).  However, when I checked on the 'my orders' on my Amazon account, I actually ordered gold plated (2 meters).  But I am okay with that because if anything I wouldn't mind if my system warmed up just a tad.  And no biggy, because for $50 I am willing to experiment a couple of times.

Everyone should buy one and try it out. Let it settle in for 100 or so hours. A very nice sounding cable at the price. @audphile1 I tried them all. I happen to like the Rhodium...in my system, to my ears, it has a slightly more open and airy top end, and a more dynamic midband. Bass about the same. It bettered many more expensive cables. If it is a coloration, it makes no difference, as my ears like what I like. MrD.

That’s the gold plated one?

@audphile1 I have tried all of the metals and all of the shells on these, and the aluminum alloy shells are incredible, to these ears. My best, MrD.

Nice furutech knock offs with the carbon fiber shell. I would get copper. Worth trying for $50. You can always return it. I wouldn’t draw any general conclusions based on this power cord experience though.

@rodman99999 my dear friend, you are so correct. 👍 However, I find silver, and silver plating in cables, extremely system sensitive, more so than the others, ime. My best, always, MrD.

Copper is the best metal for conduction of electricity.

                                  correction:

       Silver is the best metal for conduction of electricity.

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-most-conductive-element-606683