If you are still thinking of other options, consider the Hegel H390. If you buy used the warranty is transferable, but it also sells new at pretty deep discounts. I got one for well under $5k and was very impressed with it. I preferred it to the MA352 it replaced by a wide margin. I would’ve kept it for a long time if I didn’t stumble upon an opportunity to upgrade to something that costs twice as much.
$4000 budget for amp and preamp
Hi all,
Been a while since I posted here... Been searching the hell out of AVS, ASR and Agon and I can't decide on next steps for my system. My 2-channel set up has been, for a few years now, QoBuz > Audirvana > Wadia Di122 > Simaudio i-3 > Totem Rainmaker. This sounds pretty solid in my 10' x 10' home office. I've been trying to listen more in my living room since I bought a new house. I've got my older HT there - Streaming or PS3 > ifi DSD or Simaudio D100 > Integra 50.2 > and my new Revel F35's + SB 1000 Pro (plus a Wharfedale center that I picked up on the cheap because wifey liked that it was the same color as the F35's). I'm pretty satisfied with this set up - but really just for HT. I'd like to make this my main listening room and I'm wondering if I should just switch to a 2.1 set up.
I've tried my i-3 with its HT bypass > Integra and I wasn't impressed. I really couldn't tell the difference, to be honest. I tried Direct, Stereo and my native 3.1 with various sources. I have six Acoustimac 2x4 foot panels that I've yet to hang. I tried this with and without Audyssey, Dynamic EQ, etc.
So. 2-channel with a nice amp and pre combo - maybe SS amp with tube pre (+ remote)? I'm good with used and have always loved the thought of owning an AR tube preamp, but I haven't heard one in such a long time. I was thinking of going a couple different ways. On the lower end, two Schiit Vidars and a balanced preamp? There's a mint LS17 SE listed here for $2,200 and I could stretch to allow another $2k for an amp. I'm also wondering how modern preamps stack up to the older AR models. Or, should I be looking at something like the Parasound P6?
If the Benchmark AHB2's were available, I might have already pulled the trigger. Anyway, I'm spinning around here trying to figure out this first world problem. I've got a 14 X 12 x 11' ceiling room and I listen to rock and hard bop most of the time. I think I'm okay with the F35's and I'm glad I didn't spend a couple thousand more on the Klipsch Fortes that I so desperately thought I wanted. When I had a chance to audition them, I thought they were just awful. To be fair, the room was a warehouse, they were about 5' apart and they were hooked up to a Denon AVR.
If I got this set up right, I'd probably spend about 80% of the time with music and the other 20% with Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc. After rereading this, I'm not sure what I'm even asking because there's so much information. Maybe it's how can I best spend $4,000 for the F35's?
Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.
Been a while since I posted here... Been searching the hell out of AVS, ASR and Agon and I can't decide on next steps for my system. My 2-channel set up has been, for a few years now, QoBuz > Audirvana > Wadia Di122 > Simaudio i-3 > Totem Rainmaker. This sounds pretty solid in my 10' x 10' home office. I've been trying to listen more in my living room since I bought a new house. I've got my older HT there - Streaming or PS3 > ifi DSD or Simaudio D100 > Integra 50.2 > and my new Revel F35's + SB 1000 Pro (plus a Wharfedale center that I picked up on the cheap because wifey liked that it was the same color as the F35's). I'm pretty satisfied with this set up - but really just for HT. I'd like to make this my main listening room and I'm wondering if I should just switch to a 2.1 set up.
I've tried my i-3 with its HT bypass > Integra and I wasn't impressed. I really couldn't tell the difference, to be honest. I tried Direct, Stereo and my native 3.1 with various sources. I have six Acoustimac 2x4 foot panels that I've yet to hang. I tried this with and without Audyssey, Dynamic EQ, etc.
So. 2-channel with a nice amp and pre combo - maybe SS amp with tube pre (+ remote)? I'm good with used and have always loved the thought of owning an AR tube preamp, but I haven't heard one in such a long time. I was thinking of going a couple different ways. On the lower end, two Schiit Vidars and a balanced preamp? There's a mint LS17 SE listed here for $2,200 and I could stretch to allow another $2k for an amp. I'm also wondering how modern preamps stack up to the older AR models. Or, should I be looking at something like the Parasound P6?
If the Benchmark AHB2's were available, I might have already pulled the trigger. Anyway, I'm spinning around here trying to figure out this first world problem. I've got a 14 X 12 x 11' ceiling room and I listen to rock and hard bop most of the time. I think I'm okay with the F35's and I'm glad I didn't spend a couple thousand more on the Klipsch Fortes that I so desperately thought I wanted. When I had a chance to audition them, I thought they were just awful. To be fair, the room was a warehouse, they were about 5' apart and they were hooked up to a Denon AVR.
If I got this set up right, I'd probably spend about 80% of the time with music and the other 20% with Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc. After rereading this, I'm not sure what I'm even asking because there's so much information. Maybe it's how can I best spend $4,000 for the F35's?
Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.
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Just an update - I went a totally different route. I went on TMR's website early this morning and they had a mint Mac MA5200 with original box, remote, etc. I had a 5% off coupon code that one of the sales reps gave me the other day and I pulled the trigger. I hadn't mentioned this before, but I auditioned a pair of SF Lumina III's with an MA252 hybrid integrated and I was surprised that it was more forward and analytical (in a good way) that some older Mac amps that I heard in the past. Maybe I was just expecting to hear a more boring presentation and the slight difference was noticeable. Keep in mind that this is all from memory, so I might be off base about the Macs/systems I heard in the past. This, of course, does not mean my search is over. I'm thinking that I might get the Raven Nighthawk and keep them both for a few months and see which I prefer. It will be easy to sell the Mac for about the same price. A quick eBay search showed a few had sold with "Buy it Now" for about $200 more than I paid, so that made the decision easier. I'm guessing it would be nearly the same for the Raven - not sure I've seen more than one on the used market at any given time. I don't have any regrets about grabbing the Mac. We'll see when it gets here next week. Anyone want to buy a mint Submariner to fund more purchases? ;-) Thanks again to everyone and especially for the Raven suggestions. |
The Moonriver Audio 404 should be near that price. I have only read reviews but it fascinates me. I have it on my list of things I might buy if I get the funds. https://hifiplus.com/articles/moonriver-audio-model-404-integrated-amplifier/ For a lower price I can personally recommend Schiit Ragnarok 2. Only $2k but a really good integrated. Can be had with dac card. |
Good advice already given. When I read your post I immediately thought of a tube integrated as others have. If you have a little upward room in your budget you can find a used AR VSI75. I went from Bryston 7B3 mono blocks and their BP-26 preamp (heck of a preamp!) to the AR VSI 75 and preferred the sound by a pretty big margin. Can’t beat the tube magic IMO. I won’t be going back. |
The Benchmark AHB2 + Topping pre90 + Ext90 (if you need more XLR and RCA source connections). This system will cost you $3850 purchased new. I maybe willing to sell my Topping pre90 + Ext90 since it does not work well with my CODA #8. I will be putting it into storage shortly once another preamp is returned from repairs. The Topping pre90 is like the Benchmark LA4 (so very neutral and clean) and actually measures a bit better. The LA4 is more robust (works with everything) and much better feature wise. However, when the pre90 is matched properly with an amp, the pre90 is very similar to the LA4 sound quality wise. One of the Stereophile reviewers uses the AHB2 + pre90 combo on his main rig. I did too for a while but went back to the LA4 (long story). I tried the following amps with $599 pre90: 1) LSA Voyager 350 GAN (does not work well, too loud) 2) CODA #8 (does not work well, too loud) 3) Benchmark AHB2 works great 4) Parasound A21+ works great ($3500 new) With the AHB2 + pre90 combo you are taking the neutrality of the system to the extreme. You will really only hear the sonic character of your source. |
You can have your cake and eat it too. Home Theater with Tube Amp for the Front Only. (two solutions) .................................................................................................. Solution One: "BETTER FRONT" for BOTH Video and Music 1. existing Revel f35 front speakers, they are 90 db/m/w, thus efficient enough for tubes of moderate power. 2. existing Integra AVR a. controls volume of all video including it’s front pre-outs b, powers only center and surround speakers c. pre-out for front L & R to your 2 channel front system 3. new 2 channel front preamp/amp (must have HT Bypass INPUT). a. Tubes, now or eventually. I say NOW! b. 2 channel music sources direct to it. c. it powers the front L&R always c1. controls volume for 2 channel inputs c2. AVR controls front volume for video via it’s front pre-outs and the 2 channel front system’s HT Bypass Input. c3. AVR powers center and surround speakers ............................................. A separate 2 channel pre-amp with HT Bypass can be tubes, small tubes, not too much heat. Modern feature means recent, nearly new or new. Then off to Amp: SS or Tubes. A separate 2 channel amp can be SS, less heat, or tubes which is what you say you might want. Vintage; Used; New. ..................................... Blackhawk does not have HT Bypass, so it cannot be used without a separate preamp with HT Bypass INPUT for Video surround content. 2 channel sources can go directly to Blackhawk, thus it works as integrated EXCEPT for Video. ......................................... Solution Two: EXISTING VIDEO (no change) and NEW MUSIC using the existing front revel f35’s for both Alternate simple solution: 2 way switch for the FRONT speakers (only). position A: Integra drives ALL speakers for video as it does now. position B; new 2 channel music system drives the front speakers This means no HT Bypass is needed, thus any Vintage/Used/New Integrated or Preamp/Amp combo can be used. Blackhawk has built-in crossover to send the low bass out to self-powered sub(s), thus it's 20 wpc no longer needs to power woofers, and the front mains smaller bass drivers no longer try to make low bass. Raven says low bass is about 65% of power needs, that is how it's 20 wpc can do such a great job. |
You won't need tubes if you start with the LSA Voyager 350 GaN amp MSRP $3000. Lots of great reports in the AGon forums. I have one and it is everything they say. Pretty sure it will be your last amplifier: I owned quite a few (both tube and SS) over the decades! Consider combining it with the Audio GD R28, though a bit of a push from your budget, they are accepting trades toward the Voyager, so you might squeeze them both in hth https://www.underwoodhifi.com/products/audio-gd |
Thanks, guys. I hadn't really considered a tube integrated. I used to own a Primaluna integrated with EL34s and I really liked it with the Totems. I didn't like leaving it on all the time and would have kept it if it had a remote. Glad you mentioned that its 20W is plenty, because I would have thought "no way for HT." I'm checking them out now and I believe I've read where you've recommended Raven before. I imagine the sub output is a big help. I have also considered Rogue. It seems like there are a lot of Atlas tube amps on the used market for around $1,200-$1,400. I just wasn't sure what preamp to pair. Seemed a bit backwards to have a tube amp with a SS pre, instead of the other way around. I have also seen many Rogue Sphinx integrateds for sale, despite all the good reviews. My only concern is having a tube power amp or integrated and having it on for most of the day. I work from home 100% now, and have had both systems on most of the time from 0600 until bedtime. Would that be a concern? Would it be the same with tube pre, as well? |
I was just thinking an integrated amp as well. Not heard the Raven, but have the Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III and that’s a nice piece, very well made and heavy. I’ve heard the Rogue on various Revel’s at local dealership and it drives them well and sounded great. I think it’s $3k which will leave you the rest for upgrading your source which I’m not sure what you’re using for streaming or keep the rest in the bank. |
At $4k the choice is simple: Raven Blackhawk integrated. I've had mine a while now, run it with speakers as power-hungry as 87dB no problem, with sub out and remote I use it for music mostly but also movies. You will not believe this but 20W is plenty, we had no problem even with the 87dB power hogs. But the real reason to recommend it is the magical sound quality. Simply superb! You will not touch this with any $4k of separates, certainly not when the extra power cord and interconnect are factored in. |