A recent encounter with a JC Verdier dealer as well as a recent Audiogon discussion thread led to the start of this thread. He was in my house updating my La Platine which had been in storage for ten years with thread and oil. While he has high regards for the deck, his newer clients nevertheless prefer a Techdas iii than an 'old' La Platine. Given the proliferation of expensive decks in the past dozen years, La Platine has become very much under-appreciated.
It's clear to me that the influence of the La Platine is everywhere to be found. Specifically, the magnetic suspension system that was employed 30+ years ago. Even SOTA offers their newer decks with mag. lev. features. And if you read this review: https://www.callas-audio.nl/Callas%20Platine%20Mod%20Kit%20Review.pdf, the Continuum Caliburn uses the same concept, which was not acknowledged in Fremer's review, albeit with more sophisticated , and expensive, execution.
It is also clear to me that there is much misunderstanding of the workings of the La Platine. I for one have contributed to this. The motor of the La Platine, for example, has been much maligned. The thread drive is another aspect of the turntable that have been described as inferior. With regard to the motor and thread drive, I have been set straight by Chris @ct0517 and Lyubomir @lbelchev. Experimenting with the different types of silk threads, the tightness to the platter and a renewed understanding of the soundness of the Philips motor have been rewarded with better dynamics and transparency.
The funny thing is that during the past two years of re-engagement with audio, I have questioned ownership of every components in my arsenal except the La Platine. It has always been a keeper. I wonder if La Platine owners would contribute to celebrating this 'old' deck with tales, advice, and insights?
thank you for your kind comments about my system . It has significantly changed since I posted the pictures . With couple of rtr decks . Will be updating the pictures and the components in my system .
I will defenitely try to compare the platine and nouvelle platine in his shop . That would give me a good idea.
I am upgrading my catridge in my sme from lyra etna lambda sl to lyra atlas lambda sl . Expecting a good improvement.
I am so hooked to analogue with my reel tape machine and vinyl that I think a second table will be an investment that I will be listening to every day .
will listen in my dealers shop and then go from there .
@newtoncrIf you do venture into a Verdier, I would sincerely appreciate a follow-up from you. My friend has a SME 30/2 with various arms / cartridge changes, and I could never get a handle of the differences between the two TT, too many variables. In addition, he has a much more resolved system than mine with Dartzeel and Magico in the loop. I have always been curious about the the true measure of the 30/2. The Lyra Etna Lambda SL is high on my list of the next step up.
I am also considering the Grand Prix parabolica table. A direct drive table .
another totally different direction of music reproduction.
the platine with the magnet my audio friends are advising against because of the magnet . They are sure the flux magnetic head on the atr with the mr70 head amps will pick it up for sure . So the decision is between nouvelle vs parabolica.
The seller ended up sending me a unit that would not power up. Firstly i asked for the Steel casing he sent me aluminum casing for the motor housing. I was already pissed of about that, second, the motor controller was not working i asked him to send me another one. im still waiting for the controller,
I dont recommend this seller at all, he took the funds really fast kept changing my order, spec and sent me stuff that does not work.
This is why i am not dare to talk about the motor or conroller on here.
I experimented with defeating the suspension of the Verdier using macassar ebony footers. These foorters were sourced locally, 2.5 cm dia. x 5 cm tall. They rest on a 1 cm dia. crystal ball and ebony cup. I use a total of six, four at each corner and two near the spindle.
The result sonically is a blacker background, better clarity and smoothness on both ends of the frequencies, and more stable imaging with the soundstage. The width and depth of the soundstage seems unaffected.
I have read in this forum thread from folks who advocate keeping the suspension intact, even for the black MDF plinth version which I own. However, re-reading information on motor control by Thom @thom_at_galibier_design , it seemed to make sense. He is an advocate of tight coupling of motor and platter. And it turns out in my case, I do hear improvement in sound quality. And this is a first step in the road to maybe improving the motor aligning myself with advocates of non-suspended plinth.
I also use an air bearing linear tracking tonearm and often wondered might it not work better on a non-suspended plinth. Again, there are folks who use ET arms on the Verdier although most LT arms, that I know of, are used on the concrete polymer plinth. In any case, I am happy to report that this sound improving tweak is working for me. YMMV
@dover Thanks for that tip, written by a true veteran. It took me until yesterday to try it out. I cannot hear a definite improvement, but certainly didn’t hurt.
I know you have moved on from the Verdier, but I am still continually intrigued so I muddle along quite happily.
The following is a text from fellow Audiogoner @mlrosein France:
‘In addition, following the takeover of the Verdier brand by Pro-Ject (Audio Tuning Audio Group), I had an interesting exchange with Eric Verdier, the son of Jean Constant Verdier. I asked him about the future of La Platine and the heavy maintenance to be carried out. Here is what he answered me (in French that I translated into English):
"Ils sont en train de fabriquer une première série de platines Verdier... la suite dira si cela se passe bien ou non.
Sur la question de la maintenance lourde, je suppose que s’ils sont capables de fabriquer des platines, ils en seront capables aussi. Ceci dit, il n’y a jamais de maintenance lourde sur une platine Verdier. Les pièces mécaniques sont inusables à l’échelle d’une vie humaine et vous n’avez pas à vous inquiéter pour cela".
"They (Audio Tuning Audio Group) are currently manufacturing a first series of Verdier turntables... the follow-up will tell if it goes well or not.
On the question of heavy maintenance, I suppose that if they are capable of manufacturing turntables, they will be capable of this too. That said, there is never any heavy maintenance on a Verdier turntable. The mechanical parts are indestructible on the scale of a human life and you do not have to worry about that".
I bought an original brass pulley from Audio Tuning Audio Group.’
i recently acquired a Granito La Platine coming from a highly optimised Garrard 401. i have a few thoughts:
- La Platine has alot to offer. absolutely grainless. absolute resolution. alot more music frankly
- defeating suspension makes for an extraordinary analytical turntable but kills some of the music
- tiniest thread possible quite loose and all speed stability issues are dealt with
- it is a tweakers table. constantly checking speed, level etc
- i am feeding the motor with a Paul Hynes SR4 Turbo LPS - wow! huge improvement in speed stability from this - also i finally have an elevated purpose for this LPS i bought many years ago
- Wow and Flutter 0.06/0.02 respectively
- very light oil used. maybe not light enough.
- i have the Acoustical Systems SDP decoupling platter thing. don't know any different but seems to be good
- i put the motor on vibration absorbers - helped alot but so did DC conversion
- am thinking of ripping motor out of garrard 401 and using that with LDA regulator as i think Dover has a point re: AC motors.
- having said that the original motor right now sounds fantastic
- i can compare the La Platine to a Garrard 401, a Technics 1210GR and an Audio Note TT3. the la platine doesn't have the drive of the tt3 or 401. but it is stable like the 401 and very low noise like the tt3. great dynamics. intensely musical/human somehow. the 401 was my happy place with all of its thunder. but i think the la platine has some thunder but also it has alot of delicacy and sweetness. it gently lays the art out and i think it is very interesting/arresting to hear.
@mr_gray Thank you for the concise summary of your experience with the La Platine.
I have a few questions:
1. Are you listening to the turntable with the suspension defeated? When you say that it sounds more ‘analytical’ without suspension, my interpretation is that the sound becomes more precise and sure footed. There are those who feel that the suspension is an integral part of how the La Platine works. But for the past two years I have listened to it without suspension. I don’t feel that doing so compromises its musicality, but we all hear differently.
2. What kind of thread are you using? When you apply the thread ‘ quite loose’, how loose? I use pure silk and viscose threads. And there has to be some tension involved. With these kinds of threads, you cannot apply too much or they’ll just come loose. But when I pluck on the threads, they are definitely reverberating. If there are ‘loose’, I cannot keep the correct speed.
3. How are you connecting the LPS to the motor unit? You also mentioned DC conversion, not quite sure how you can do both? The motor’s speed control did eventually give way last year. And I replaced the LM 317t ( a regulating chip ? ). When it was being serviced, I used another motor + belt combination for a few months. I am now much more appreciative of the original motor’s ability. Yes, it requires constant tweaking, but the stock motor is good.
Your comparison to the 401 and AN TT3 is very informative. And the timing of your post is uncanny. I was just looking into a possible second TT. And the two turntables I was researching yesterday was a 401 and a Voyd which the TT3 is based on, I think, good to know your thoughts.
The problem with the Verdier motors that the spindle was never designed for side loads that the belt exerts. Some turntable manufacturers get a bearing inserted to help with the side loading, some don't.
My Verdier motor was very noisy, and even building a clamping device inside the motor housing so I could minimise motor noise did not resolve this issue.
Of course motors like the Garrard and others have proper spindle and bronze bushes that are much more stable. I have an old Pioneer/Exclusive broadcast idler that has a motor twice the size of the Garrard and is quieter. It even has separate brazed brass oil lines from the top plate to the top and bottom bearing so that they can be oiled in situ. I keep this in case the motor on my reference TT ever dies.
If I still had my Verdier An all in one solution worth looking at would be the Sota Eclipse system - off the shelf and modestly priced. Its quite a bit better than many turntable standard supplies in some unnamed ( quite expensive ) TT's.
i have had some advice from a very experienced la platine user on WBF (@mtemur) and so things may change. also i am currently ill and this affects my hearing. it is just cold so a day or 2 and it will be fine but this could have impacted what i perceived recently.
in any case to respond to your queries.
1. i have removed the footers i was using. i had CMS speaker footers under it. it sounded extraordinarily measured with footers. polite. formal. stiff. no fun. i accept other footers might be a better choice. i used the CMS speaker footers because they easily adjust up and down being leveraged. and they sound great with speakers. i think their maker wouldn't endorse the way i've used them here. my sense was that when i first played the la platine as i received it from germany and the previous owner with a fr64s and modified denon 103 cart and no tweaks or oil, that it sounded quite sublime. i'm not sure anything i've done since then has helped.
2. viscose thread. have used waxed floss. have used a thicker "yarn". have used my tt3 belt as well. everything sounds like what it is. so the tt3 belt which is rubberish and flat and wide made the verdier sound alot like the tt3 to my ears (which as i noted at start may not be at their best), i.e sort of thick and unrelenting like its made of plastic. viscose thread sounds best late at night (2 am) when the power is clean. music hangs in the air. one can hear very much the timing characteristics of different belts. tight rubber one had great drive with a certain elasticity. with thread i can hear it slowing down as it plays. this adds to a certain appeal i think but mainly late at night. opposite of garrard 401 thunder. waxed floss was good but seemed to heat and then disintegrate a bit. less romance with floss (could hear its relatively stiffness). i think i can hear the viscose thread stretch too. i do find it needs to be somewhat tight the viscose thread for me to make speed. the floss on the other hand could be almost falling off. i want to try silk. but mtemur recommends transrotor belt. i have ordered that. i have also ordered EPDM based belts as per a recommendation by another chap on here. i have bought the gold note deluxe (EPDM) and epdm o-rings from ebay. we will see what we get. mtemur says he has speed variation down to one quarter of what i am achieving (i am 0.2 rpm variation at best).
3. re: motor i may be using wrong terms as i barely know what i am doing. i opened motor and snipped tx output and connected my LPS 12V DC output to the wires. so i still get to change my speed the normal way etc. this did reduce my speed variation. the sound is good to me, i think i can hear the improvement. but it is less romantic somehow and i wonder if this isn't the same sort of change i got from footers. that is, more hifi, but not actually better. my touchstone is linda ronstadt when i first fired up the la platine. it shocked me how much resolution i could hear but also how much delicate flesh there was on her voice.
re: turntables right now i am wondering if i should keep either the tt3 or 401. the tt3 is very set and forget. the 401 is, like the la platine, a tinkerers paradise. the 401 is more stable than the tt3. the tt3 is more engaging and beguiling than the 401. the 401 is monumental when on song. but having everything carved out in marble for you can get tedious.
@dover i am starting to wonder if the la platine doesn't lose alot of its "musicality" with a more driving motor. i haven't attached a garrard 401 motor to it (yet) but with the tt3 belt (tight coupling compared to thread) i heard a propulsive sound and frankly it was like i had perverted the la platine into being something other than what it was meant to be. but my hearing could just be temporarily shot.
sorry to post again but also i have ordered some precision ceramic 10 mm bearing balls so soon will get to see what that sounds like. will make a difference as i think my la platine sits relatively heavy.
Your hearing is fine. The Verdier has a very relaxed quality to it which can easily be lost with mods. The supplied rubber belt is very poorly made, it is out of round ( cross section ), rough, and in my experience you can see it riding up and down the platter as the platter rotates. A fellow user local also has this problem. The Leonardo rubber belt is better made ( more true ), it's as simple as that.
I used the supplied linen thread which I preferred to the rubber. I would not use cotton ( stretches ) or dental floss ( too waxy ) both of which I have tried on my reference TT and were failures.
On my reference turntable ( 26kg platter ) I use surgical silk. If you use low tension you can chalk it but I don't.
I don't see why you should lose anything with a better motor as long as you run the belt with low tension. However my guess is that the Sota Eclipse motor is closer to the original in drive, just more accurate.
As an aside I sold the Verdier tp a friend who had a SME20 - the Verdier was significantly better than that TT.
I am having some great results with the la platine. i think it sounds pretty great. it is a very transparent platform i think. where i am at is as follows:
- tiny thread being used. i think this is cotton but not sure. motor as close as i can get it. i'm having very good speed stability and i am easily making speed.
- i haven't gone back to footers and i don't think i will. it's going well on the springs.
- i tried a grade 3 ceramic ball. it is 10 mm. turns out the ball i had was 12 mm. ceramic sounded ceramic. i've gone back to the steel.
- using very light synthetic oil with the ball in place i measured wow of 0.02% rms and got speed variation down to 0.15 rpm. it sounds fabulously speed stable.
- in trying the 10 mm dia ball i found my magnets are so weak that the platter sits flush on base. i have ordered magnets which are very slightly smaller than the existing ones. i am hoping i can get a little more magnet suspension into the equation
- in running a table that to a significant degree has weight on bearing as i am, i think it sounds that way. less gossamer and more "plastic". it honestly sounds alot like the garrard sometimes albeit with alot more music and resolution.
- the table has tonnes of jump/dynamics and bass. but you do have to potter with it to have it at its best. my tonearm i am using now is a fr64s. not having vta adjustment is killing me as each change i make with ball/platter "suspension" implies vta out of whack. i am sick of getting microscope out. i do think the platine allows ear adjustment like no other table i have heard. it is just so pure to what is occurring. i have ordered a vta adjustment mechanism and can't wait to be able to optimise on the fly so to speak.
For those of us who do not use the ball, the clearance between the two magnets is about 10-11mm.
I have tried Colton thread to terrible effects. The ones I used were almost wool threads. Both the viscose and silk threads are good. @dovermentioned the Eclipse motor system from SOTA. I wrote to Donna @ SOTA, and she confirmed that the motor works with thread drive. A previous poster from France with a Nouvelle La Platine used the SOTA motor. As SOTAs are suspension type TT, the Eclipse may be a good alternate.
On the other hand, Thom from Galibier has developed a motor for his own design as well as for Verdier. Though he is adamant that his motor only works for non-suspended TT. He recommends defeating the suspension on the La Platine, and use Kapton flat belts. His motors have been used on La Platine. As opposed to the SOTA motor which employs a feedback loop, The Roadrunner, the Galibier runs ‘nude’, so to speak.
Your enthusiasm for the La Platine is quite infectious. I have taken more relaxed attitude towards the La Platine, preferring to just enjoy the music it produces. But you have force me to maybe take up a few projects on the La Platine to further enhance its abilities.
BTW, I have had problems with signing onto Audiogon, so I changed my user name.
I am wondering whether the Eclipse system including the Roadrunner speed monitor can be used with the Verdier, because the Roadrunner depends upon a Hall sensor that "reads" a tiny, weak magnet that rides on the underside of the platter. Thus the huge magnets that levitate the platter and would be in the vicinity of the Hall sensor may interfere with accurate reading, AND the Hall sensor and magnet where they pass over each other require a total of more than 10-11mm of space between platter and base for clearance (referring to the previous post that mentions the width of the space between magnets. You might want to consult with SOTA on this question before proceeding with purchase. If it’s a problem, there may be ways to get around it.
The sensor would be placed on the underside of the aluminum alloy platter which overhangs the magnets by about 4cm. The actual magnet sensor is approximately 5mm. If it is placed close to the edge of the platter, then there would be a 3.5cm clearance from the two La Platine magnets. This may be enough to avoid any disturbances, but it really has not been tested.
@xdrwrote about his experience with the Eclipse on the La Nouvelle, the baby brother / sister of the La Platine. The Nouvelle does not use magnetic repulsion on the platter, so his application of the Eclipse motor had no problems.
Keep in mind that, at least for the Phoenix Engineering gear, the progenitor of the Eclipse system, the distance between the magnet and the Hall sensor, when the magnet passes over the sensor, is optimally one-eighth of an inch. That’s about 3mm. If what you describe would permit that close spacing without exposing the sensor or the magnet to the considerable field strength of the magnets that support the platter or if the sensor is impervious to that magnetic field, then fine.
@lewm
The more I look at the La Platine, the more I think you are correct about the incompatibility of the Eclipse drive system with it.
I doubt if SOTA would provide a definitive answer. It would be good to hear from someone who has tried.
I do think SOTA would be forthcoming if they have the information. No harm in asking. On the question of whether the magnetic field per se would be a problem you might directly consult Bill Carlin of Phoenix Engineering. He’s a good guy, and he’s always been responsive.
You can run the basic Sota Eclipse motor and controller ( $975 ) without the Roadrunner feedback system and it will still be a significant upgrade from the Verdier motor.
Furthermore - lewm's point is probably a red herring - the monitor under the platter is unlikely to be affected by the magnets which are inboard from the platter edge. I'd put money on it, in which case you could run the Roadrunner feedback as well.
i got some new magnets for the la platine. i thought it would be a tough ask. it was not. a company had in stock 180 mm dia 20 mm thick Y30 magnets (ferrite) with 100 mm dia internal "hole". this made them about 5% smaller kin area than the stock magnets. i wondered if this would be an issue.
the magnets arrived in like 6 working days. from singapre. i bought 2 sets just in case. i don't often handle powerful magnets and it is a bit of a nightmare. i was wary of shattering one of them during install.
as it turned out all was well. the old ones were much easier to remove than the new ones to install. how they got so weak i will never know. is this typical? it doesn't seem to be. i did my best to centre everything as i know the magnet alignment is core to good performance.
Bob's your uncle and the job was done. i've now got a levitating platter. i have it within an oil meniscus of the bearing which i have left in there. it sounds amazing. i do have to say the biggest improvement though has been getting a smartractor and doing a proper setup of tonearm/cart. that change has been staggering (and somewhat embarrassing really).
@dover thankyou - yes i do feel / hear that difference i think. i have been fettling to wit:
i've got the motor off these soft absorption pads i had it on. now flat on credenza top. also i put the la platine on cms footers (i.e. defeated the feet). i am using thread. the motor is very close. shaknspin wow is down to 0.02 RMS. with the spring feet defeated it adds a certain solidity. previous i thought this a bit much. right now with my tonearm setup properly, cart aligned etc it just seems very good. wide stereo image. great stability. great dynamics. i can hear that the standard feet do better preventing noise coming up into the table (i have a stethoscope for this). but there is little doubt in my mind it all gets a little "soft". i mean you can hear it frankly. it's not bad. but it just tends to mechanically favour treble and lower volume stuff i think. what is mind bending is the sheer amount of music in the songs and the total lack of distortion. i played old favourites and despite not having my best arm/cart/sut combo (or more accurately most expensive arm/cart/sut combo) it has never been better.
around the corner i expect two different belts to arrive. actually 3. one is EPDM from ebay, the other is EPDM from gold ring and then another is the large TRansrotor belt favoured by @mtemur from WBF. he prefers a belt so i figured it would be good to try it out and it might even help me achieve 45 rpm more easily (my experience is belts do alot better with 45 rpm than string). 33.3 sped stability is now brilliant. i don't have any issues now that i have mastered motor placement etc.
i was going to try different ball materials but i am now riding above the ball so i don't think i care anymore. might even try total ball withdrawal. i do think the denon 103 cart with fr64s arm feels like it was made for this turntable. the fr64s/103 combo being hyperactive and overreactive and the la platine tending towards the subtle.
one thing to note with my excellent w&f values is that my thread is now at the absolute base of the platter. i do tend to think this helps.
The magnet replacement is really a rarity. Did you replace both the top and bottom magnets? How did you attached the magnets to the aluminum platter? How did you remove the magnets from the platter to begin with? Can you post some pictures?
hi @ledoux1238 yeah it was a big deal for me. i replaced both. it just got so easy when i find them online and the post was so quick. i imagined glue and all sorts of things. not the case.
the magnets that came in the "collars" had an outer dia of 185 and inner dia of 95 mm (20 mm thick). the magnets couple to the steel "collars". to remove the old ones was easier. less powerful. somehow i could lever with a cloth and screwdriver and up they would come. i needed the cloth less i fracture the ferrite.
installing the new ones which are Y30 ferrite and 180 mm OD and 100 mm ID (20 mm thick) was tricky because very difficult to remove once in the collar. very strong. nothing much to grab once they are flat on collar. i put a magnet in wrong (opposite polarity). to remove it was very tricky. i ended up using wideset long handle pliers and a soft cloth. you just need to get an edge up. adjusting position also very tricky but very necessary to optimise wobble. also more powerful magnets made it very tricky to assemble the la platine. that is putting on top platter assembly, now more powerful magnets will push the bottom assembly out of alignment unless i am very careful.
i have got a factory in china now making me another 2 sets of magnets but these will be Y35 ferrite which is stronger and longer lasting. i anticipate it will be about 25% stronger and also will have dimensions of 190 mm OD and 89 mm ID so as long as i can get them in, i will really have better magnet coverage in the collar and stronger magnets hence more repulsion in aggregate.
it is dubious whether more repulsion will do anything good for me. i mean alot of people run the platter just resting on the ball so does it matter if there is a 1 mm gap versus a 10 mm gap versus 20 mm? i guess the way i see it is i don't anticipate an impact on stability from less bearing being in top platter assembly but i think we could have less noise and less friction.
I just did a quick online search, and Y30 or Y35 ferrite magnet discs of varying dimensions are readily available!
On the old Verdier web-site JC Verdier spec’d out the type of carbon steel used, TELAR 57 of ARMCO, which have the suitable magnetic properties for use in his TT. What is the connection of the Y30 ferrite to ARMCO steel type? I just do not know my metallurgy that well.
And correct me if I have misread your post. The aluminum platter and the magnet are attached by magnetic attraction, no adhesives are involved? I had been taught that magnets do not interact with aluminum, hence the question.
Regarding the strength of the magnets , a Dutch audio dealer, Callas Audio, came out with a limited addition mod kit for the La Platine. It could varying the amount of magnetic force. The result of which is better bass response. Some user would use the ball as a corrective against the magnetic force.
@dover Eclipse motor + Road runner sold as a kit from SOTA does not come with a housing. Additional costs with a custom housing and a separate linear power supply would have to be factored in. As @lewmhad advised, I will shot a quick note to Donna at SOTA and Bill Carlin regarding magnetic interference when the time comes.
the platter is attached to a steel collar below and it is that to which the magnet affixes.
the callas mod was all about being able to fine tune location of bearing (vertically). with the granito i have that adjustment via a bolt beneath the table. just need long spanners to get to it (size 17).
belts arrived today. i can't get the platine to spin slow enough now (HA!). but of course this is simply highlighting that i haven't the correct lubricant. i am using a very light synthetic lubricant. it is too light. as per JC Verdier's design i will now use ROCOL X5 Ultraglide. This will create a little resistance which will mean i will come into a better place for achieving speeds i need but also the drag obviates stylus drag as per Verdier's design. i wouldn't be surprised if it makes it a little quieter too as i think it will be slightly dampening.
transrotor belt is skinniest. gold ring is a mm or 2 thicker. ebay EPDM belt is grossly thick. they all seem to achieve the same results at this stage. Wow no better than 0.04 rms. speed variation down a little but still about 0.15 rpm absolute. hope to improve both these numbers with the right lube. i have 5 kg coming so if anyone needs some, please reach out (or if anyone needs magnets).
@ledoux1238 i must admit i have trouble working out how armco telar 57 lines up with Y30/Y35. i will say though that Y30 even in the size is used (which is smaller than what could fit in collar) has enough magnetic force to do the job even with my additional 3 kg on there (weight and SDP thing). having said that, i am keen to try Y35 as more float is something i'd like to see.
based on installing Y30 - even more force will be difficult to manage. i don't imagine that JC Verdier design needs much more than Y30 based on my experience. it seems a good match for the original. i had heard from the gentleman i bought my table from that the original magnets came from Focal drivers (a 38 cm driver from the 70s as i recall?).
Thanks for the further explanation, crystal clear. The outer ring collar attaches to the platter, and prying will release the magnet from the platter. Who would have known without your actual tinkering?
I know you have a lot on your plate right now, but have you also played with mats? I have been using a Micro Seiki cu 180 copper mat for the past few years. But last week decided to remove it and play nude. I like it without the mat!
@ledoux1238one day i will get to the mats. right now i have a SDP acrylic top on the platter that adds about 2 inches. so that's my mat. i don't want to brag but i do have alot of mats (spec, vertere, copper) so one day i will give it a go. mtemur from WBF says no mat for the win so you are in good company.
i have now given my armboards to a man so they can be drilled for my kuzma arm and so i can add the vta collar to my fr64s. so i am back on the audio note tt3 for now.
i have been looking for a second turntable. The choice range from nostalgia:TT I had e.g. Townshend or SOTA or TT I wished I had, e.g. Forsell, Simon Yorke…. Most recently I was looking for a Voyd, preferably a Reference. I think the AT TT3 is based on the Voyd. I am just curious how the tt3 compares with the Verdier.
yes with the Audio Note turntables we have the reference, the half reference and then the tt3 (and then others with less motors below that). as i understand it the ref and half ref are licensed from voyd whilst the tt3 is AN's own creation (albeit heavily influenced by voyd). i have never heard a ref or half ref.
with the tt3 we then have 4 different levels of motor. i have a psu3. makes a huge difference. to a very big extent in the tt3 we are listening to the motor. i have heard the psu4. i found the difference is shocking (but i frequently seem to lack proportion).
i feel with the AN tt3 it has less atmosphere than the la platine. i guess the noise is higher (3 motors). the drive is excellent. the usability is excellent. you turn it on. it hits perfect speed. the end. when i measure wow and flutter the numbers are much worse on the tt3. one can hear this a bit i think in that the la platine is very "solid" (when on fixed footers more so) and massive (finely grained). the tt3 is more like a little boat on the big ocean. the 401 sounds like a big modern aircraft carrier (total stability). the platine inbetween but on fixed feet more 401 than tt3.
finally the tt3 doesn't allow different arms which is simplifying but a little limiting for some perhaps.
just to add, going from thread on la platine to belt, and going from more bearing to no bearing, one can cover a whole spectrum of sound right there. the loose thread with magnetic levitation only can sound delicate, ethereal and more biased to higher freq. a tight elastic belt with ball bearing taking weight can sound quite close to a 401 (more plastic, more relentless, thicker).
get a granito / vintage heritage la platine and tell us the difference with your classic la platine. there is one on sale on audio-markt! it looks brilliant.
@mr_gray
As dedicated to the La Platine as I am, and curious about the differences between a Classic and a Granito, I’d leave this comparison to others. I did search on audio-mafkt for the granito, and it’s a nice one with grey stone inlays.
i am now using a transrotor large belt and i have the rocol x5 ultraglide in place. with the belt and without the rocol i was too fast!
now i am right on the money.
wow and flutter gets worse less tight the belt is. this tells me magnet alignment is not perfect. having said that i am down at 0.06 % RMS Wow so it is very good. if i get the belt tight i can get it down to 0.02. but i know that will sound more "idler" like and i don't want that.
unfortunately my armboards are being drilled and so actually hearing the la platine is off for now. very keen to hear it with the safir. i have a new to me ART9 cart that i will try out.
i am back on its native suspension. it shocks me how good it is at not allowing the motor noise into the la platine. the motor is sitting on its own base which is heavy plate steel.
currently i am floating with no ball contact so we will see how that goes.
Granito is simply terrazo ( cement with imbedded stone ), but the granito chassis can be fragile - crumbly from what some owners have commented.
If I was doing a new base I’d probably do custom slate or some composite - bamboo ply/panzerholz or other.
If you are not using a ball and using the lossy original feet - I can’t see it altering the sound significantly unless the weight changes significantly on the sprung feet.
I assume the steel plates under the MDF bring the weight to about the same as the Granito plinth - and keeping the weight the same with a new plinth would be important so as not to affect the fundamental resonance of the suspension.
I have a chance to buy a Verdier La Platine, the present owner uses a rubber belt, but when I search this, I get unanimous results that thread is better, often silk. Would someone be able to point me to which thread I should buy. Would be much appreciated.
@dover I found the custom footers that Magna Audio produced for you. I assume the existing spring footers have to be removed. Can you explain how that is done? Do I remove all the screws on the underside of the plinth, and the spring assembly just comes loose?
@mr_gray I have too many second TT choices on my wish list. For contemporary TT, l like the Japanese CS Port, thread based with air bearing, non-feedback motor, and a really nice LT tonearm. For Vintage, the Forsell Reference, again with LT arm. For mostly nostalgia a SOTA and a Townshend are options.
You mentioned the Kuzma Safir, that is my top choice for a second arm. But the truth is l spend less than 25 hrs / week listening to my system. I am good for now.
@charobI think between elastic rubber belts and thread, the consensus is that thread is better. I recently ordered an Original Live belt made for Micro Seiki TT to paired with a temporary motor while the original motor was being fixed. The thread + original sounded better.
I have seen experienced user driving the La Platine with tape. Thom Galibier advocates his Kevlar tape for his turntables and claims that it would work well on the La Platine.
Sorry I can't remember how to remove the feet - it's some years ago.
Pretty sure everything is held in by screws.
I made my own feet - I cut inserts for the cavities from birch ply and put 8mm stainless steel thread inserts into the ply inserts. The round inserts were made as a friction fit - no screws or glue required.
I then used Black Diamond Racing cones screwed into the ply/stainless inserts and pucks.
@charob
The Platine Verdier comes standard with both a belt and a linen thread.
well i finally have the safir playing on the la platine and of course i am now:
- floating in mid air with no ball bearing contact
- lubed up with Rocol X5
- transrotor skinny belt
- copper "mat"
I have an ART9 mounted and am using a very affordable SUT in the Audio Technica AT670T.
It sounds absolutely tremendous. The belt is very light/loose. It is music coming from the black. It sounds very odd in some way in that there aren't any detectable mechanical artefacts in the sound. I listened to Royal Trux Cats and Dogs last night and it was perfect. A dream session for an audiophile. A fave record turned into a sustained artistic event.
Soon enough I might try footers again as well as the linen thread I have coming. But I will give it a while because what I'm hearing is very good and I've been without it for weeks waiting for armboards.
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