Blue Jeans cable. Entire loom for very reasonable outlay. Good quality and musicality.
2017 Honest Cabling that doesn’t promote bankruptcy
Looking for experiences and recs for current mid to upper mid level cabling solutions
I’m talking about ICs and Speaker cables that do not require plans for high jacking an armored car with a couple gallons of chloroform and a helicopter with a really big magnet?
Neither is it a matter of seeking out an ‘all system’ same brand and model loom, though it could be.
In Your opinion and or experience which signal cables (or mix of) have proven themselves recently to enable a revealing system to maintain or demonstrate its integrity, truth and musicality on its best level?
Or, in other words, With which current line of wires or ‘cables’ would you feel very confident using to connect your upscale stereo outfit in 2017?
New, or pre-owned?
… and why, please?
Thanks so very much. j
I’m talking about ICs and Speaker cables that do not require plans for high jacking an armored car with a couple gallons of chloroform and a helicopter with a really big magnet?
Neither is it a matter of seeking out an ‘all system’ same brand and model loom, though it could be.
In Your opinion and or experience which signal cables (or mix of) have proven themselves recently to enable a revealing system to maintain or demonstrate its integrity, truth and musicality on its best level?
Or, in other words, With which current line of wires or ‘cables’ would you feel very confident using to connect your upscale stereo outfit in 2017?
New, or pre-owned?
… and why, please?
Thanks so very much. j
131 responses Add your response
I'd go for the Cerious Technology Graphene Extreme SCs, Teo GC ICs on both the CD and Phono, and JW Reference ICs on the preamp to amp. The JW's give the initial impact with no harshness. Using 2 sets of Teo's in line on the CD or Phono was too smooth. The CTGE give bass grunt, dynamics, and very good clarity on all sounds. The result is very real sounding. I have VMPS RM40 BCSE ribbon speakers that are very revealing and dynamic. This combination of wires replaced my previous ones of Darwin and Amadi silver wires. Those were both very detailed and transparent, but I finally figured out that my system needed a more organic sound with fuller bass. I'm now officially off the hunt for better wires and more synergy in my system. |
dragon_vibe > Neotech Cables both Interconnects and Power is highly recommended. Blindjim > thank you. would you mind adding more clarity as to the sonics they affect and or how they present the audio? Trombonist > Richard gave me a quick historical/chronological look at their line Blindjim > yes. I saw that thread and posted to it myself. I called Shunyata too. Knowing the heritage is one thing, knowing which version does what to the sound is another. I’m still in the dark as to the affects of each model and how the DX iterations quiet the power line. I was told the action takes place now in the IEC termination itself… or so I believe. It was pointed out too the DX or ‘quieter’ PCs do not have a specific purpose and can be used with any device without concern for any current limiting attributes. The ‘Sigma’ however has a feature set none of the lower entrants possess. I also got the impression the Taippan helix alpha sits nearest to the new Delta and perhaps between it and the next level up, the ’Alpha’. Again it seems The Cable Co. must be used to know what’s up, almost for sure. |
blindjim .. see my thread on Shunyata. Was researching upgrade path and Richard gave me a quick historical/chronological look at their line. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/deciphering-shunyata-chronological-history-for-upgrade-paths |
I agree one should or must know their system well and know what they are trying to improve upon, or simply alter. I followed some advice here long ago and began with Power cords. Sure, I bought some quite popular ICs and spkr wires too, but sure as heck did not want to. With only basic mostly entry level cables, stock power cords, etc., I began to notice things were changing as each PC replaced the OEm PCs. Sometimes for the better, sometimes not. I filtered thru a lot of them! The Cable Co or back then called “Fat Wire” and I were in contact almost weekly. (see archived reviews of cables I’ve posted here) With connecting cables things were slightly different. They all matter so which way you approach them is neither good or bad. Spkr wires first? OK… go there. I did. Again, with tons of input. I found a set priced right for me and bought them. Priced right for me means what I can’t afford, and then add 25% or more. Often, more. Neutrality in spkr wires was the theme and they remained even though all else were exchanged, replaced bought again, exchanged, and replaced again! Probably one item aided me immensely in chosing ICs. Power line conditioning. I prefer passive, not active. Adding one, then a different kind, and then another and finally a step up in performance and price unit, all helped a lot. Albeit, the Running Springs haley was the last one added and that was well after all of the wire selections were made. Almost. It is easier to pick and chose wires when the grundge is being swept off the power line and making it easier to hear the devices. A good argument for begining with PLCs could well be made. Wires too are device dependant. Unless…. One wants to go “same + same” front to back, though I would say my EXP indicates get into the middle of a line or higher to start adding in the same cabling every where. I found great results with mixing various brands and models in the past. Almost none of those are now current cables… so I’m starting over from scratch, almost. A funny thing happens with cables, and components. Once I’ve found a particular sound I enjoy. A particular level of resolution and detail. Sufficient transparency. I will thereafter attempt to regather what ever devices or system to that same level of sonic purity again and again. I find this exceptionally humorus. It is nigh on to impossible, but we must all have some readily identifiable trait of mild insanity or they throw us out of the club. And yes… it’s the law. All of this would be so simple if preamps came with tone controls… yes. That is audionervosa heresy. Super. Burn me at the stake. I’ll bring the lighter fluid. I’m all in on the ‘no tone’ controls epidemic. Finally. …and no, I don’t use wires to adjust the tone. That’s what tubes are for!! OK.. OK… I’ll bring the matches too. I know me and achieving the inth degree of transparency, detail, and so forth is not my usual tact. I could care less to know what color socks a musician or singer is wearing. Or if they have on underwear. Besides, we all know musicians and singers go ‘commando’ most of the time anyhow. I settle for or stop at about the same spot I do with gear. Right at or just into, the point where any further into the rabbit hole begins to shed the involvement and fun from the session. When stuff begins to get bleached out. Its all leading edges and dynamics, we have sadly, departed from reality. Music for me does have color. Timber and tone some would say. But it comes off as color when you must describe it. I want the music system I possess to provide enough truth when its playing that it makes me want to yank out my virtual audtograph pad and ask for a virtual autograph from one of the performers. . which one? Well the prettiest one of course. Or possibly the one I feel I might get luckiest with after they’ve had a bottle of Beam’s choice or mescal. Nope. I ain’t buying it, but I will pour it for her. When she no longer can of course. After all, I’m no heathen. I’ve drank with performers before. Most of the time I’d as soon not. Getting to know one better, might destroy one’s image of them. The feed back here is outstanding and opens many doors I’d never have thought of alone. |
It's good to hear acknowledgement of conductor quality's contribution to superior signal transference and hence to the sound quality of an audio system. The other two big factors would be dielectric quality and implementation along with connector quality. If the cable is manufactured well you should be good to go. The "X" factor in all of this is knowing your system and what to you is great sound along with the ability to select quality cables with all of the above factors in evidence that will sing in your system. That, for me, is the most satisfying part of the audiophile thing...knowing how to tweak the sound of your system to get what to you allows well recorded music to sound the most like the real thing. Once there? Focus on and enjoy the music! |
Audio Sensibility makes excellent cables at an affordable price. If you read their history they are one of the few companies that can source high end OCC copper/silver. I added a tonearm cable last year and a few cables recently and all are high quality making an improvement. I recently bought their USB cable that uses 100% OCC silver conductors for half price as the AQ coffee cable it replaces and the sound is much better. |
Grannyring > I like the Duelund and love the Western Electric NOS wire which the Duelund wire was fashioned after. Blindjim > very cool. THX. Given the costs, It’s a no brainer to at least try this stuff. mitch2 > Jim, I would not use the Duelund wire to make power cords but the cotton covering should be fine when using the wire as ICs or SCs. Blindjim > huge THX! yeah. I was a bit confused on that ‘in oil’ part. Both sides of my brain were about to walk off ten paces at dawn and …. Then I suddenly remembered I’ve gotta buy the ‘spensive power cords. I’m pretty sure it’s the law. I think I’ve seen these same wires in some military tube based PA systems and later on in the commercial electrical field within older house wirings. It would be cool too to have spkr wires in my fav color. I wonder if they would do some in paisley? I’ve archived these last few notes so maybe I’ll make some progress. At least obtain a base line for further comparisons. I will indeed flip out if these things out run my Synergistic active spkr bi wires. |
What covers the oil impregnated cotton to make it safe to use as a conductor?Jim, I would not use the Duelund wire to make power cords but the cotton covering should be fine when using the wire as ICs or SCs. The Western Electric wire was designed as a speaker wire but has been used by several cable manufacturers to make power cords. From the WE website; KS-13385 is our premium Hi-Fi audio wire. It features a soft drawn copper with a tinned coating and a cotton braided jacket. |
Cotton is the only outer covering and all that is needed. It is sturdy, thick, and safe. No worries. You can purchase this wire from Parts Connextion. They sell the 16ga and 12 ga. I like the Duelund and love the Western Electric NOS wire which the Duelund wire was fashioned after. 10 gauge and can be purchased below. Please note it is sold as a twisted set! Great value. Don’t terminate .... use the bare wire. Same with the Duelund wire. I started off with the Duelund 16ga and finally ended up on the Western Electric 10ga. Personal preference only and system synergy. http://www.ebay.com/itm/per-foot-Western-Electric-AIW-10ga-STRANDED-cloth-covered-gray-PAIR-/2316636... It is warmer sounding and more full bodied while the Duelund wire is lively and a tad more open. Two great options. Both these options are not shielded as you say. This is one reason for their openness. What these cables have in spades is uncanny realism. Less electronic or reproduced sounding and more live. Your music sounds real. It sort of transcends talking about this or that audiophile adjective. |
Grannyring > best wire I have heard, is the Duelund bulk stranded copper in oil impregnated cotton. Blindjim > OK. A few Q’s…. What covers the oil impregnated cotton to make it safe to use as a conductor? Can these things be considered ‘shielded? Essentially, are they both as revelatory neutral and transparent to the signal apart from one with more weightiness and one more active?? Have you ever ran double runs of this wire as spkr wire in any AWG size? Exactly where do we buy these wires? Thanks, Jim |
The best wire I have heard, and I have owned many, is the Duelund bulk stranded copper in oil impregnated cotton. Wonderful sounding with many of us Aphiles selling off cables costing up to $2500 for this stuff. Jeff Day and Jim Smith both love and use it talking about it on the their sites/blogs. Offered in 16,12, and 20 gauge. Price is $9-$16 meter. Do not terminate as speaker wire as it sounds best stripped and hooked directly. All terminations degrade sound. I have owned Clear Day, MG, several Cardas, TRL, Amadi, Tara Labs Air, and others and the Duelund wire is very special. It is tinned so no need to worry about oxidation etc....The 16 gauge is the choice for many for both speaker wire and ICs. With Switchcraft rca’s you can make a 1 meter set of ICs for just $65. The 12ga is a tad more full bodied than the 16ga when used as speaker cable. The 16ga is a tad more lively. Dont let the price fool you, You could spend thousands on this wire and still smile when you hear it. |
Whart > Ideally, the cables should be neutral, as should the components, but the reality, in my experience, is that different components sound different, and when combined with other components - the very nature of a system-- the results may vary. Blindjim > its not that they ‘may’ vary, it is that results ‘will’ vary. Unquestionably. Leaning heavily on ‘synergy’ helps. Infusing cabling however into the mix is the greatest aggravation in this past time IMO. Whart > In 1973, it was pretty much zip cord and there was no high grade interconnect being marketed Blindjim > in the ‘70s and into the ‘80s I was an electronics communication technician. or commercial electrician. Stereo’s then used $2 RCA connections…. And lamp wires for speaker cables. Only a knife and screw driver was needed to get a stereo hooked to a pair of speakers. They had the all in one inspiration everywhere. Phono, tape, tuner, an the obligatory AUX input for a reel to reel deck. Power cords were migratory only if the dog chewed off the one already attached. It always amazed me how a dog could do that and survive. Whart > If you are still up in the air about what amp and speaker choices you are making.. wait on wires. Blindjim > check. So the Cable Co. is still alive and well? Cool. Only decision made thus far is to go more mainstream instead of low power and High Eff spkrs for the main rig. Lower tube power and High Eff spkrs is the aim for a secondary office deal. Likely, Push Pull, EL 34 based. < 100wpc. Stand mount spkrs. And the main room spkrs will have to be more low power friendly than those I’ve been admiring which mostly fall into the 4 ohm 90db or so realm. Short list wires are AQ, Nordost, Shunyata, Wireworld, Cardas, HT, and Crystal. Maybe Morrow or Audience. |
milpai, I've spoken to Paul several time since reading his updated site. I believe his products are well made and priced right. I ordered an additional pair of Double Shotguns to run a true Biwire setup from my Levinson. He knows his products and their limitations. Paul is one of the good guys in the industry. I wish him well. N |
Blindjim- I think the choice of cable is system dependent. Ideally, the cables should be neutral, as should the components, but the reality, in my experience, is that different components sound different, and when combined with other components - the very nature of a system-- the results may vary. I don't think this is a very scientific approach, but having first started experimenting with different speaker cables back in the late '80s, I heard differences (over a pair of old Quad ESLs driven by a modest sized ARC tube amp). Fast forward> when I switched to horns in 2006, I had to hand some Van De Hul cable. It sounded fine. The amps were at first Audiopax 88's, which were a curious design, and I got Cardas cable to match them. Sounded better, if I recall. I eventually replaced the amps with Lamm SETs and replaced everything with Kubala Sosna (mostly Emotion, but one stretch of Elation at the front end). I really haven't felt the need to upgrade, though I imagine if I tried other cable, I would get different results. Now, for something completely different, I got those old Quad ESLs restored, along with the matching amps, and decided to be "anti-audiophile" about the cable. I had a big roll of 12 gauge copper stranded cable. It sounds fine. (I'm using inexpensive Wireworld interconnect, which I'm sure could be bettered, but it is pretty well made and cheap by audiophile standards). Since I couldn't leave well enough alone, I decided to explore some other speaker cable. I have some Canare 4S11 en route--a pretty inexpensive DIY alternative. I may also try the faux WE stuff at some point. My goal on this vintage system isn't just to keep costs down (though cost is certainly a factor), but to keep within the spirit of this older equipment. Back when I first started using the Quad, in 1973, it was pretty much zip cord and there was no high grade interconnect being marketed- I suppose DIY at that time exceeded what was generally available commercially. I don't have any holistic view on this- the main system is pretty settled, and my continuing experiments on the vintage system cable are probably only going to yield conclusions applicable to that system. If you are still up in the air about what amp and speaker choices you are making, I'd wait until you sort that out first. I don't think these assessments can be done in isolation (or, as another poster above said, there is no one "best" cable for all systems). Have fun with this. Take advantage of The Cable Company loaner program (which I've never done) to the extent you can. |
Just got Audio Art Classic RCAs for $100 pair. Burn-in time 170 hours, they got 5 hours so far. Pretty good already, a bit edgy and bass is not there yet. I will probably exchange it for SE with Xhadow plugs, they now also got standard size Xhadow plugs. I am a Purist Audio fan but can't afford another Neptune, so I thought why not try this, some members here had very good results with them. Rob is great to talk to, responded to email on Sunday. They also appear to work quite well in a chain with the Neptune, at least in my system. I'll see, 165 more hours. Oh, by the way, I burn in cables with analog source, no bloody digital anywhere to be found. Call me what you wish, I know it's better. |
@nutty, That is correct. In anticipation of getting a new disc player in the next couple of months, I immediately ordered a set of XLR cables from Paul last week, as soon as I heard about his surgery. Got them today. Listening to my music with those new wires. His silver wires do not sound edgy at all. I also love those Puresonic connectors on them. |
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Hi all, Can someone tell me about the new line up of Shunyata cables? what is that 'triton' biz all about? Who’s the entry point, in their ICs and PCs, and who is on top now? Do they still make something like their VX series? The ones that had all the beads inside that sounded like rain sticks when you picked them up. Also I would like to know what model or version supplanted the Tappan Helix Alpha Power cord? Was it phased out? |
I think synergistics and other cable company they have cables worth more than 45k ...Interestingly SR did have a $45K cable, the original Galileo system, but this was withdrawn and replaced by Galileo LE peaking at a mere $15K for speaker wire and this in turn by Galileo UEF at the same price So I think you can argue that while SR could be accused of turning their lines pretty quickly they have not been continually pushing prices up, and in the market of uber high end wire they can even be termed "good value" 😉 |
Jayctoy > I think synergistics and other cable company they have cables worth more than 45k ... Blindjim > if they don’t yet, give ‘em another iteration or two. They will. Inna > I think, Stealth has something like $70k cable.. There is the newest Purist power cord with built-in conditioner for $15k msrp, realistic price is significantly lower. Many who tried it swear that it is totally at a different level than any other Purist power cord. I don't want to audition it, what if they are right? Blindjim > OMG. well… I stand corrected, and am currently without something to restart my heart with so I’ll just not look in those directions. Fsonicsmith > Please help me. I am relatively new over here having recently given up on audioasylum Blindjim > I doubt anyone here will hold that aginst you. Fsonicsmith > are you joking half the time, all of the time, or none of the time? Blindjim > Please… don’t confuse me with someone that actually matters. I’m nothing and nobody. I DO NOT wear a crash helmet or have my mane pinned to my shirt. Well, not anymore since the operation. Neither am I an OCD poster. Actually, I’ve learned far more from people on this site and some local folks in my area which has brought me up to speed far more credibly than were I left o my own devices. So I reiterate and regurgitate those things, and my experiences and work history that might be meaningful for some one else. That is, IF I run across it. I don’t ever seek out opportunities to voice . my thoughts just to be adding on or bolstering my post counts. I don’t know it all and am glad of it. Less pressure that way. Some like being a big fish in a little pond, or try to be a big fish in a really big pond so they might migrate from one related site to another now and then. There are indeed really big fish in the ocean and some add their exp here occasionally. That part is great. Unquestionably. its an aide for everyone. My legit stuff is legit, and the lampooning stuff is where one has the choice to laugh ignore it or be a jerk and post something derogatory about it. I add in an instance for levity here and there to keep myself from sheer boredom like the ‘chair so electrons can run downhill’ noise. BTW, that was not originally mine. I stole it from another poster here who wrote it some years back. Gravity luckily has no untoward affectation on electrons. Capt. Kirk would have been very disappointed if it did. Whitestix > Modestly priced Silnote and Shunyata PC's and IC's offered significant SQ improvements over Blue Jeans and Morrow cabling in my systems. Blindjim > Hmmm. Thanks for the experiences with wires in your system. Esp the thoughts on BJ and Morrow. Enter your text ... « First ‹ Prev 1 2 AddThis Sharing Buttons Share to FacebookShare to TwitterShare to Pinterest More to discover Honest Vintage Tube Repair - SoCal Equipment Grading Honesty Most Honest Audio Magazine? Be honest please 2017 Honest Cabling that doesn’t prom... Convert?fit=crop&h=80&policy=eyjlehbpcnkioje1mdewmjgxmzksimnhbgwiolsicmvhzcisimnvbnzlcnqixx0%3d&rotate=exif&signature=a6adf96600227f55e2172f7bdb19de16029e1a5245e5921cfed91148fddae7cf&w=80 Purist Audio Design Canorus 15 amp Power Cord Praesto Rev. 1.5 Meter. Convert?fit=crop&h=80&policy=eyjlehbpcnkioje1mdewmjgxmzksimnhbgwiolsicmvhzcisimnvbnzlcnqixx0%3d&rotate=exif&signature=a6adf96600227f55e2172f7bdb19de16029e1a5245e5921cfed91148fddae7cf&w=80 AMAZING TESTIMONIAL! Morrow Audio MAP-1 60 Day Returns Convert?fit=crop&h=80&policy=eyjlehbpcnkioje1mdewmjgxmzksimnhbgwiolsicmvhzcisimnvbnzlcnqixx0%3d&rotate=exif&signature=a6adf96600227f55e2172f7bdb19de16029e1a5245e5921cfed91148fddae7cf&w=80 Component of The Year Award Silnote Audio GL Reference Power Cryo Wattgate 1m World Class Excellent Reviews © 2017 Audiogon.com Contact Us Help Terms of Use Guidelines |
I have upgraded to Cerious Technologies Graphene PC and IC's in my system and they are quite good. For my speakers, I found a significant improvement upgrading to the Supra Ply 3.4 tinned copper wire. For my bedroom system, vintage WE 16 ga. tinned copper wire with an oil-impregnated cloth shield has been outstanding, which is what the Supra wire mimics. Modestly priced Silnote and Shunyata PC's and IC's offered significant SQ improvements over Blue Jeans and Morrow cabling in my systems. |
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the only real trick I've found is if you need more PRAT in your system, the speaker wires need to run downhill all the way to the spkr terminals. or at least put a chair in the way so the last part of the trip is all down hill. Trust me. its magical!Please help me. I am relatively new over here having recently given up on audioasylum (outdated web design, lack of activity, the place is a morgue). So my question Sir Blindjim, is; are you joking half the time, all of the time, or none of the time? You obviously know a ton about audio, you have likely "forgotten more than I ever knew", and yet you say some audacious things. And since you post one hell of a lot, I may need to reset my secret decoder ring or ask to be let in on running inside jokes. |
I think, Stealth has something like $70k cable.. There is the newest Purist power cord with built-in conditioner for $15k msrp, realistic price is significantly lower. Many who tried it swear that it is totally at a different level than any other Purist power cord. I don't want to audition it, what if they are right? |
Inna > the most popular current Purist cable is Neptune fluid. About $1300 for 1M RCAs pair. Poseidon fluid is about half the price. Blindjim > thanks a lot. By the time I get around to trying them, they’ll double in price! Lol. For me, its how well they either compliment the array, or assist it, usually the latter. A fascinating thing I’ve noticed in audio gear is no matter what the the item. Wires, components, or even racks and isolation gizmos, every freakin’ maker of what ever places a price tag on it generally commensurate with the level of performance it brings to the system. Sometimes, it is far, far, too over valued. In other words, some makers are simply way to proud of their equipment. The only way I can read the price list for Nordost odin cables is when I’m already at the Emergency Room or at least have an ambulance standing by in the driveway. OMG. $29k? UNREAL. |
Inna > Try Purist, Echole, Stage III and HB cable design cables. Least expensive current Purist to try is probably Poseidon. Blindjim > thanks for the heads up. Much appreciated. randy-11 > blindjim - you have a fundamental misunderstanding of electronics blindjim > Correct! Its served me very well for many years. the only fundamental truth I seldom misunderstand is the one concerning the asking price and the price I have to pay. Neverhas the price I want to pay, the same as the price I'm told i must pay for them or it. it seems very complicated at first. after you buy the first piece, you're obliged to hide your shame and guilt, and keep buying tickets for the train ride. the only real trick I've found is if you need more PRAT in your system, the speaker wires need to run downhill all the way to the spkr terminals. or at least put a chair in the way so the last part of the trip is all down hill. Trust me. its magical!! |
Geoffkait > Morrow controls the manufacturing process of their cables to the extent that the wire grain structure is correctly oriented Blindjim > I am pretty sure they use a funnel. Jayctoy > take notes…. recommend ? Teo GC, CT cables, and Reveal high fidelity, Blindjim > been there done that. See my reviews on inter connects, power cords, etc. agreed. Start somewhere in the middle of whatever appeals to you, and or find someone who has similar system and tastes. Then start where they are but for sure its always gonna be a Missouriboat ride, “show me” thing. Ebm > I like Purist and Furutech for built quality and sound… Blindjim > Never got around to trying purist, or furitek. Did think about it a lot though. Just didn’t work out in time. wolf_garcia > From the Morrow website: Tom Morrow uses the famous "Schmekerman 500" electron path determinizer at the exit point of the modified noodle extruder output nozzles to insure proper directionality. The silver coating has a "direction sniffing" chemical added in during the smelting process that allows it to follow the copper's lead and burns off when setting up, allowing for purity in both thought and action…a rare thing. Hense all Morrow cables are directional, and if used in the wrong direction can cause phase anomalies that will make the listener feel itchy. Blindjim > Well, it could be a sock, but I was guessing it was a funnel. Maybe they use a colander first to get rid of the bigger meaner grains. But then a sock would work in a pinch. randy-11 > for ICs - use balanced XLR cables on your balanced components; if you don't have such components buy them (and avoid components that are not properly engineered next time) blindjim > Rut Ro. The only reason balanced cables exist is because their makers did not want to put in the best stuff so they had to put in twice as much decent stuff to compensate. lol geoffkait > What makes it particularly funny, at least to me, is that electrons aren’t really involved. Not for the audio signal, anyway. Blindjim > Electrons are Not involved? Call Bill Nye. If there were no electrons, your pants would not stay up… and ‘No’ electrons are not slang for ‘belt’. lol |
