mahgister,
That is exactly what I thought and you then rewrote it even better.
That is exactly what I thought and you then rewrote it even better.
Would you donate a dollar to have these Members Review a Product?
So, I've been thinking that there are a number of hifi products that I would love to hear or, at least, reviewed by folks I know and respect. I then thought what if a panel of fellow members each listened and reviewed the product.
I'd pay money to read (or watch/hear) ericsquires, wolfgarcia, millercarbon, and georgehifi each receive the same amp, speaker, etc. and review it.
I'd pay money to read (or watch/hear) ericsquires, wolfgarcia, millercarbon, and georgehifi each receive the same amp, speaker, etc. and review it.
122 responses Add your response
Reviews Can have Some merit, but usually it isn't so much about the sound that grabs me. Using a product will educate you soon enough about things such as whether a remote has the needed features and ease of use, for example. Yes, you can read about it in the manufacturers ad, but they won't include statements that you may automatically trust. I like to know that a chassis is well made, or that switches and knobs don't have some kind of funkiness to them. I could go on, yes, but these observations too are important to me as a consumer. Knowing about the reviewer also lets me trust, or not, his taste in music and more. So many times when I am reading a review, I am wishing that the reviewer would just get to the point, and not run comparisons to wine, cars or seemingly related topics (to him, that is). |
@tomic601 while I can play Carnival it’s not in my normal wheelhouse. Jazz, funk and big band is where I do damage. I’ve tipped the meter a few times with my Callichio 1s2 in the upper register (F6, Ab6 and Bb6) in excess of 140 dB which the Shure SM27(?) did not seem to handle well. Full round core sound really flattened out. |
If someone like Ericsquires, for example, has been listening and tweaking for 30-40 years I’d be curious to hear what he has to say after living with a component for a month. Then it would be cool to contrast his view with several others who also had an opportunity to live with the same product for a month. I have a sneaking suspicion many of the naysayers are just being contrarian here. If one doesn’t care about what reviews have to say or anyone on this form’s view, why even read the forums? Maybe I’m being a touch flippant here. :). I particularly enjoy and find value in what others have experienced with a product. While it’s likely far from gospel, unpaid real life listeners trying out products in their systems are a good source for me to look at. While I really enjoy pros like Fremer, Reichert, Kessler, Guttenberg and so on, these dudes do have to answer to bosses. These dudes are not traditionally building systems the way we “ordinary folk” are. These dudes, as lovely people as they are, are not typically in the same position as strict hobbyists. I use what others say and think as a guide. It’s a guide that I must vet yet one I enjoy and use as a tool. |
There are reviewers who I trust, and then those who are in it for the wrong reasons, and obviously getting big kickbacks from companies for a good review. We’d be fooling ourselves to think otherwise. YouTube is full of both, and certain ones are absolutely cringeworthy, but this isn’t YouTube. It’s a group of our peers. I don’t think it’d hurt to at least put together a list and then group of willing individuals here on A’gon with earned credibility to do such a thing. Will it come to fruition? That, I don’t know. There’s a lot of variables at play too, such as their listening rooms, and you’d have to make sure things such as cables used in these reviews are exactly the the same and with the same amount of burn in time, if you wanted accuracy. There’s much more I can’t think of off the top of my head, but I at least believe it to be a cool idea. |
I cannot resist reading reviews, even bad one...But it was very misleading for me 7 years ago, at the beginning of my conscious audio journey, instilling in me the false impression that upgrading an electronic components was the key to Hi-Fi, and it is absolutely false... Alas! Most people think like me 7 years ago... But I loved reading reviews this is a point I cannot negate... " I like cheating and reviews" - Groucho Marx |
jbhiller OP If someone like Ericsquires, for example, has been listening and tweaking for 30-40 years I’d be curious to hear what he has to say after living with a component for a month. Then it would be cool to contrast his view with several others who also had an opportunity to live with the same product for a month. >>>>That should ensure the reviewer’s hearing has gone all to hell above what, about 10 kHz? That’s just great! 🤗 |
Some manufacturers (namely over at Audio Circle) pre-launch gear with a "Tour" of specific equipment, which consists of a pre-tour sign-up list, and a commitment by each person on the tour stop to:
As a twist on the OP's idea, maybe the folks here could talk a few manufacturers into offering a "tour" of certain equipment, either popular pieces or maybe new-to-the-market equipment where the word is not out yet. The manufacturer gets free publicity from this group and the benefit that only people interested in the specific equipment on tour would sign up, which means the reviewer's ancillary system equipment and their personal sonic preferences should be aligned with the gear being reviewed. One way to start would be for Audiogon to organize tours of gear by manufacturers who advertise on this site. |
technick There are reviewers who I trust, and then those who are in it for the wrong reasons, and obviously getting big kickbacks from companies for a good review. We’d be fooling ourselves to think otherwise.That’s an extraordinary claim. Do you have any actual proof? I’d agree that there are quite a few unreliable - even inept - reviewers. After all, there are no prerequisites for the job. But the allegation of "big kickbacks" is a bit far-fetched. |
If a reviewer reviews a pair of $650,000 Wilson speakers and decides he wants to buy them for himself the standard industry comp is what, 50% off? That’s a pretty sweet deal in my book. I suspect the reviewer’s published review of those Wilson speakers would be rather complimentary, perhaps even gushing. |
Well, first, color me blushing. I had really no idea anyone would take me even this seriously. A few weeks ago out of left field one of my most ardent followers (an anti-fan) pointed out I said I didn’t find a brand of HE amp all that special like 6 years ago, and he still remembered. Thanks to all the fans, but I’m just a guy who likes audio and has developed some personal tastes in it. I usually post here thinking that Audiogon is a teacup and no one really cares what is said, especially if I dislike a major brand’s sound, who cares? Turns out within this teacup many do, and it’s’ been an adjustment for me. The statement of "who cares what xxx thinks" is one I agree with sometimes and in some ways and in others disagree. I mean in the sense of what you personally should buy and listen to, only your own ears really matter, but most people are motivated to build communities, and brands are sometimes how we do this. It may feel like I’m personally attacking your team if I don’t like how they play or if I question why you do. On the other hand, what I find interesting to read from others, even those I disagree with, is understanding the context of their experience. What speakers, what music, and what did they compare to? What did they like? What trip got them to where they are now? A lot of what interests me is how we perceive and why. Like whether you like cilantro or not, or IPAs. My personal love of both has no bearing on the truth of beer tasting, but I find it fascinating some taste cilantro like soap, or conversely, that there are audio brands which to me taste like soap, and to others delicious salsa. Is it learned? Is it in the ear? Fun stuff. As I’ve stated before, your personal listening experience is sacred. Love what you love, but if you can leave us all with an understanding of how you listen, and how you got there we’ll all be enriched. |
I dont gives a dam about the speakers I listen to, nor the dac, nor the amplifier. Understand me, I love them now and I had chosen them with care... But an Hi-Fi real experience is more directly linked to the 3 embeddings of any audio systems which i already spoken about earlier...Way more than the taste and appetite we had for a MacIntosh amplifier or from a Sansui... Most reviews only confirm et reinitiates this error at perpetuum... I love the Sansui club, I own one Sansui.... But audio experience has almost nothing to do with the choice of a piece of gear "per se"...I want to express that a bit radically and see if people react with understanding to my rant... :) Those who did not owns an audio system radiating sound qualities at his peak potential level, be it at any price level, who then may not understand why my rant and what I speak about, probably and simply own system where only an upgrade of some electronic component has made a big difference for them in the past and stick to the illusion that the price paid for a costly electronic component mainly gives audiophile experience at peak level ... My experience is contrary: my good actual audio system sounded like "shit" out of the box, after I afford to buy it, but understand me is theorically by all reviews very good... But the reality is that i discovered how good it can be only after devising methods and tweaks of my owns to controls the triple embeddings of it: mechanical, acoustical, electrical... I will simplify that post in a drawing: Before tweaks: my system is shit...….After tweaks: the same system made me flow tears of joy.... Conclusion for beginners: Dont buy anything else if you already own something already relatively good, think first and look for the way, not to improve it, more to transform it completely...Read reviews for entertainment ... "Music comes from the walls " Groucho Marx |
A lot of what interests me is how we perceive and why. Like whether you like cilantro or not, or IPAs. My personal love of both has no bearing on the truth of beer tasting, but I find it fascinating some taste cilantro like soap, or conversely, that there are audio brands which to me taste like soap, and to others delicious salsa. Is it learned? Is it in the ear? Fun stuff.Audio experiences reflect tastes in the choices of some components like any experience we immerse voluntarily ourselves...And we can think about why and how...But this is psychology... The truth is audio experience ultimately is not "founded" on tastes at all... "Tasting" a particular audio system is an anecdotal event... Creating a top Hi-Fi audio system has nothing at all to do with tastes first...It is not even only engineering... :) Science will gives you the directions, your ears will correlate all different materials and apparatus, and the different controlled grids in an optimal design particular to your own house, room and gear... "Even ears works hard before tasting" Groucho Marx |
I only expose rationally my own experiences... I apologize but I dont know you and I really only enthusiastically speak my mind...This is called discussion... My intention was never to write what you just write on my behalf: Erik is wrong, and only I know what is right. Writing X is wrong, had no sense at all, nobody can be wrong on all counts, nor right on all counts....Neither you nor me... If I must be corrected on the point I just write about go for it, I will listen to you with pleasure... My best... |
I argue about an audio subject not about some person... You just made a citation where I express something that cannot be understood out of the context of my complete post... The only reason for your reaction instead of discussing my point is out of my knowledge ...Sorry to bother you, the point was only discussing... By the way what do you think of my point? And now this: What exactly is the reason you are here then, @mahgister? What is it you are here to talk about and share?Intimidation and insinuation are not discussion...And what I had to say was already exposed in the few posts here... |
Well, besides negating my posts I have no idea what that means.It is your first post about me that is relatively sound and dont only deform my intention but I never intend to negating your posts but only raising a point for discussion ... Thanks... I will apologize for not being clear for you....But I think that I was clear, my bad if not...If my post were unclear, instead of attacking the messenger you would have asked a question or two... I will not go on because if you dont understand my point or dont want, by lack of any clarity or by bad faith, anyway i cannot reexplain all that better without annoying everyone... Have a good evening...And forget me... Like you dare to ask for me, I will not ask " who are you?" "Hey! it was not a dude, it was the pope" Groucho Marx |
@tomic601
my opinion of short term “ shootouts “ is pretty lowIf my recall is correct, I believe we were supposed to move the gear along to the next tour stop after about 10 days. Certainly less time than a professional reviewer would spend with it but enough to allow two weekends and way more time (in our own systems) than we would get with it at an audio show or in a retail showroom. Nothing is perfect but I believed it was enough time for me to sort out the overall performance of the piece, especially since I was introducing only the one new thing. |
