If Raidho speakers are so great, why are there so many pairs for sale here? These are not inexpensive speakers by any means and it seems at least every other day there is a pair for sale with some people having them only a few weeks to a few months, and they are really taking a bath on them. What gives? Are they not as great as they are made to be? Is Jonathan Valin a shill for the company?
I heard the 4.1 diamond at Blink High End north of Boston and was very unimpressed. I have heard many other highly regarded speakers for much less money sounding wonderful. So, what gives?
I've fallen for the Vandersteen Kēnto's for similar money. Best in class for my money and ears. The point you make about getting a legit full range speaker that doesn't beam or smear and gives you all the octaves makes a ton of sense, especially considering a floor stander takes up the same footprint as the monitor and due to so many things, gives you as good or better imaging, staging and everything else that monitors 'used' to give you.
Again, some buy for looks and others buy for great sound. No one is wrong as it's personal choice.
The Raidho D1.1 is one of the nicer looking bookshelf I have ever seen in burl walnut, but at $37,000 USD/pair when they were being sold, they offer some of the most extraordinarily bad value when it comes to speakers out there. Not only that, but the woofer is crossed over so high, it would beam terribly. Just an all around bad design, would measure and sound pretty bad.
For the same price, you can get yourself the SUBSTANTIALLY beefier, better made and nicer looking TAD Compact Reference 1 bookshelf speakers.
Of course, limiting yourself to bookshelf speakers in this price bracket is a bit nutty. You get way, way more for your money if you look at floor standers.
Personally i would choose Borresen over Raidho today.Borresen 03s are the ones i'd like to purchase as soon as possible.Best speakers i have heard in the past few years, i've listened to Borresen's full line of speakers and the 03 is the sweet spot.If you are a Raidho fan you might want to look at Borresen and compare.
I noticed the trend when I would see a bunch of something that I was considering and thinking it would be easy to find one and then by the time I was ready, nada.
There may have been when this was posted 4 years ago. I have noticed at times that there’s a wave of certain product that show up, and then you can’t find any after a short burst.
The premise of this thread is just bizarre to me. There are not a lot of Raidho speakers for sale. Raidho speakers are unquestionably world class. Sure, some may have different sonic preferences or tastes in the highest end speaker options (nothing wrong with that), but anyone thinking that Raidho speakers are flawed either didn't hear them properly positioned in the room, or the Raidho's were revealing poor source material or connected components, or they were in a bad listening room. Or, more likely, they heard them in poor audio show conditions in an acoustically difficult hotel room.
I have Raidho XT (home) and Scansonic monitors (at work). The Scansonic are terrific for the money and give a "taste" of the Raidho sound, but the Raidho's are a very significant step up. The Raidho's take some work in terms of experimenting with speaker placement and toe-in to sound their best. Changes as small as an inch make real differences. When you finally get them in the precise, optimum position- you will know because the sonic picture just snaps into place and then you are in for a treat. If Raidho are out of reach financially, Scansonic is a terrific alternative though.
It's all good Stereo. I wasn't a Vandy fan until the newest ones. I never fully understood them. I think the new drivers etc... put them over for me. I will get out to hear the new GE ref speakers once they hit the stores.
I have had 3 different pairs of Vandersteen in the past and they didn't do real justice to rock music. I had 2ci, 2ce signatures and 3a signatures. I love my GE Triton Ones and will probably get the Triton References when they become available in late Spring. I had an audio friend over yesterday and the look on his face when he heard my system said it all. I have never seen this friend smile so much. He kept saying that Diana Krall was singing in the room in front of us
I LOVE the GE speakers and will stick with them. Thanks for your input, greatly appreciated.
Stereo, have you auditioned the Vandersteen Treo CT's yet? If not, it's probably worth it since you are in that 8k price range already. I think you will be pleasantly surprised by all they can do at this price point. I have two friends I met on the boards who were looking in this range and auditioned the GE, DR, PSB, Paradigm, Dynaudio, used Wilson Sasha's and Maggies.
They went together to listen most of the time and they said that the Vandersteen's each time were the most enjoyable. They would sit and listen to music for hours at the store and not even get into their audiophile recordings. Honestly, that's the biggest reason I switched from Proac's. I was a free agent. I had no dealer with allegiance and no designers I felt I need to purchase from. I didn't even want to listen to the Vandersteen's, but Rutan at Audio Connection made me listen to the Treo's.
I went there to listen to Proac D series floor standers. They weren't in the same league and the set up was just ok as it was in the front of the store not far from the door.
From top to bottom they got the music right and they were open and threw a big sound stage and were so dynamic at all listen levels. Even my brother and father who were with me and known nothing about audio, said that the auditions were even close. He had the B&W and PSB's out that we heard also. The Maggies din't move enough air for rock and on bad rock recordings they were ruthless and hurt my ears. The Vandersteen's seemed just as fast and there was no smearing of notes.
Why the Quatro's over the Treo's? Because of the built in bass amp and eq. I have a loft that has a partially open wall down into the larger living area. The Treo gave me great bass from among to tunefulness. That said, the Quatro is in a different category for bass. It's what I've always wanted and we all know that real bass is expensive. I've found that to my ear the GE bass isn't of the same quality as the Vandersteen's. It will give you a lot of air movement and is better than many other speakers at or even above it's price. I'm liked Sandy's speakers in the past and I do like his newer speakers, but for me, Vandersteen was just more accurate and musical. I'm not the biggest fan of the ribbon tweeters either. They can be very rough on top at times. The new Proacs are done well, the newest Legacy's are nice (I can't listen to their older ones) and the GE's are also nice, but I personally feel that carbon tweeter that Richard's using in the Treo on up is the best sounding tweeter on the market. It's sweet without the syrup. It's just tonally accurate and thats what he was going for.
Again, this is all just MY opinion. Not putting down any other speaker as we listen differently and hear different things.
Let us know when you get them and your observations. I want to upgrade from my GE Triton Ones to the Triton Reference. I just found out they aren’t shipping until May :(
Stereo5. The Vandersteen Quatro's are on order still. I head out for Nepal until the 10th of Feb, so I told them to take their time. I will have them painted in Audi Havana Black (the darkest brown metallic you can find). I can't wait, but have to, lol. Sending my Ayre AX5/20 integrated back to Ayre to have them install the crossover so it's internal. Will sound better great this way and less cabling to deal with. I've heard this speaker so many times in so many places with so many different pieces of gear, that I already know it's going to tie in with my room perfectly. I've needed to have a speaker that has built in bass and full EQ. That's what I love about them.
What a terrific system you have. Love the Rockports, you have quite excellent taste. If the poster was serious, then he definitely owes you an apology. I started this post, how did it turn to this? Enjoy that great system, mine is quite modest compared to yours.
Um....OK....there are some pretty good posts in this thread and many don't disparage your speakers. It's a public forum and it's aways interesting to hear what folks say about things, good and bad. I have never seen a post by anyone saying it's time to mercifully end a thread. Most large threads meander as this one has. I know Raidho isn't for me, but I wouldn't' disparage them. They seem to be polarizing. They obviously have their following as do most high end speakers.
Not sure why you feel you need to let everyone know a thread is over or maybe I misunderstand your post (which happens with me all the time).
(1) After 177-odd posts its time to mercifully bury this thread.
(2) What's the big deal about highlighting selling Raidhos? For example, there are about a dozen TOTEMs up for sale on AGON and almost 3 dozen pairs of Totems currently up for sale on Canuckaudiomart.
Many people either (i) get bored with what they currently have, or (ii) ultimately determine that a sonic performance change and an improvement can be had, or (iii) logistical issues predicate a change (financial/new home/divorce/ new electronics/ listening area change)
(3) The RAIDHOs PROPERLY matched to supporting gear are among the very best top-shelf performers, bar none.
-- e.g. heard At the Toronto Audio Video Entertainment Show (TAVES) 2014 Show -- Raidho D-2 speakers: partnered with Audia Flight, Bel Canto Design, Jeff Rowland, Sutherland, and Dr. Feikert Analogue electronics; or,
-- Raidho D-1 speakers: These standmounts are an appreciable step up from the older C-1.1s, and that is why I've seen numerous trade-ins to upgrade to these. Audio
people talk of synergy:
you’ll hear what synergy really means with the Raidho D-1's partnered with the Devialet 170, a set of Crystal Standard Diamond speaker cables, ...the actual ICs and quality built power cord escape me.
I have reread this thread since the last post. I notice that many on here have or know folks who purchase items on reviews and not on listening. I don't get it. I never have and never will. I can't imagine spending any money on audio without listening to it, unless you get a full refund if you don't like it. It's an easy way to lose money and stay frustrated.
I just ordered my new Vandersteen Quatro's this past week as the buyer for my Treo's came to pick them up. I made sure to keep them in the system so that the purchaser could listen to them first to make sure that they were what he was looking for. I"ve heard the Quatro's so many times in so many rooms and with so many electronics and I knew that I wanted them. It's most probably the last speaker that I ever purchase, unless I win the lottery.
I notice many posters make statements about folks spending so much on their hobby and passions. To make the statement that YOU won't ever spend that kind of money seems fine, but who are we to make those statements about folks who can afford to spend that money? They are keeping companies in business as those expensive speakers allow those same companies to market more affordable gear to those of us who can't afford the more expensive gear. I bet that 'normal' people look at any high end audio junkie and call them nuts for what THEY spend on their gear and music.
As for the thread, I too have noticed that too many retailers 'get rid of gear' by selling their new stuff as used on Audiogon or other sites. All that does is devalue the manufacturer. It's been done for years. Often it's a maker using a third party to move their gear to make something and not have to offer a warrantee possibly. Often an amp company will offer their new products as B stock just to move things. Personally, I will always try to stay with a company that stands behind it's products and keep their resale value. JMHO
There has never been a better time to shave the sheep than it is now, in the field of so called high end audio. Like on an assembly line, a "fine piece of equipment" is produced in somebody's basement and paying for his mortgage. The thinking goes like this: even if I sell only one, I'll be riding the horse. And the economics? I had a friend who got into so called Timeshare business in the early 90s. The scam started in England, as usual. After all, they invented Ponzi schemes at an university decades ago. My friend organized Timeshare business in one of the poorest countries in the world. While we were walking and talking one day I asked him about his business. But during this walk, every half an hour or so he would rush into a nearby gambling area with slot machines. He would quickly lose few hundred euros and then get out and we continue our talk. That was a monthly average salary in that country. Although he was a refuge like me, he was full like a ship. He told me that the cost of the timeshare payable to the business owner in England was $4000. And my friend's starting timeshare price at the presentation was - $18,000! I asked how is that possible. He said he has his students on the street inviting people to presentation in the most luxurious hotel in town, completely free and no obligations. People would think ok we have no money, we go have a couple of whiskeys, spend nice time at nice setting, experience something. So they go and sales pitch starts about only $18000 and what you get for this incredibly low price. But we have no such money - says the couple (my friend said he is particularly interested in getting couples on those presentations). They didn't finish the sentence and my friend puts his hand on the woman's hand, looks her straight into her eyes and ask - How much you've got? Only 200. And my friend's second hand get on the woman's other hand while he proudly announced - Sold, you've got yourself timeshare! High end audio is like timeshare. The real price should be 4 to 5 times lower than the advertised price. But who are the sheep, pardon buyers? In my experience, mostly people who played stock market index after each recovery. For example, S&P from March 2009 to this date goes practically straight line up. Let's say you are in 2010 and you see quantitative easing goes as expected. You invest 50k into the index (very important (I for example invested in Microsoft when it was $26 and now is $63, but I invested in a bunch of other losers as well) and your gain right now is at least 60%. You get $30k gain - and buy expensive speakers. You may think you gain money on stock market, but the very first day you bought those overpriced speakers you lost two thirds of the money i.e. you lost $20k out of those $30k. I.e. you purchased overpriced stock, pardon speaker. As simple as that.
I don't think its the speakers, I think its the name. Lets face it, people who own them probably just get worn out telling people what Raidhos means. The ride, journey part is ok though.
Interesting thread to say the least. I'm so surprised that folks aren't mentioning Vandersteen 7 mk 2's in their discussion of high end speakers of the highest level. I've heard most of the speakers in this thread in folks homes as I've never been to a show (been in the hobby since 1969). I think I have decent ears and I fully understand synergy within a system and room. I realize that we all hear differently and even though I have yet to hear a Wilson or Magico or B&W that Iv'e liked, I do know many who love them and that's awesome as that's what it's all about.
I've heard smaller Raidhos, but not their top of the line ones. I couldn't get emotionally involved with them. Based on this thread they obviously have a very loyal following, so I'm sure they weren't set up to sound their best.
As far as i understand, there are d-x, d-x v2 and d-x.1 models, and d-x.1's are the current line. One of my friend have d-3 v2. I may take his speakers for a demo(very good and close friend). If i decided on raidho's, which i probably will do, and let u know if it could rock my world :)
You think the D1.1 are something, try the D3.1 in your room. It will rock your world. Raidhos have been wildly successful over the last three years. The factory has been backlogged and many owners upgrade once they get addicted leading to second hand sales.
So many interesting posts. I sold my rockport aviors to a friend. So I am looking for a new speakers. Because i like to listen different and better speakers, Rockports are no longer in my scope. I am not saying Rockport is bad speaker, it is very good speaker indeed. When my search began, i had many names in my list. I tried many of them in my system, and had a chance to intensive demos with many of them. I can not say a certain things about demos, because my house, my system is different, and every speaker sounds better in home. But i have certain ideas about what i listened in my home. Because this is a Raidho topic, i will not share any opinions about other brands.
I have a Ypsilon Aelius mK2 mono power amps, Ypsilon active pst100 pre, Ypsilon VPS 100 Phono pre, couple Ypsilon SUT(large and small), Techdas Af2 turntable, Graham Phantom Elite tonearms, many cartridges, Ansuz Ceramic Speaker cables, 4 Ansuz Ceramic Power Cords, one Ansuz ceramic interconnect(sut to phono), and 2 Stage3 Gorgon Interconnects. Private electiricity line for every Ypsilon equipment. My room 7 meter X 9 meter.
I listened Raidho D1.1 in my system. All I can say is wow. Unbelievable sound stage, 3d images, clarity, definition, transparency, musicality all are exceptional. D-1.1 bettered Rockport Avior in every way(of course Avior play powerfull and more in bass area). By my experience I can clearly say, D1.1 is worth every penny and I cannot think any audiophile think D1.1 is not a exceptional speaker. Maybe it not suits you, but it is damnn good speaker.
I did not listened other raidho's in my system, but i demoed and listened them in many occasions. They did not give me the same impression. Were they good, were they performed well, yes. But I never had an idea about their potential, until listened in my home.
So, I dont know why so many raidho's for sale, but if you are looking for a really good speaker, and if their in your price range, give yourself a chance to have one(not give chance to raidho, i dont think they need it).
System "synergy" is a very valid point. I find Magico's very clinical ... but then I heard them through different amps and hey-presto, a much more delightful sound, no longer clinical. Same goes for Raidho ... my humble Chord Electronic set-up works fine with them, but probably less so with [fill in blank].
The issue of the SYSTEM is really important. It is physically impossible to comment on a product in >pure isolation< (that cannot happen, by definition). I suspect the issue of >system< synergy has been discussed previously in depth, but I must have missed it.
The notion of an absolute reference upon which to judge a single component them swapping out the component under examination seems valid. But is it fool-proof? I suspect not.
This thread is a sad reminder of how much better our hobby would be without the following:
1) People who are butt-hurt because they believed a reviewer and got burned and, in turn, are incessantly on the hunt for people they can berate as stupid by claiming those people did the same thing.
2) People who project their lesser economic paradigm on other people and berate them as stupid because the other people don't share that economic paradigm as the one-and-only correct view of life.
3) People who live to berate others as stupid for their gear decision with no knowledge of that person's: 1) system synergy; 2) listening preferences; and 3) purchase economics.
4) Shameless shills and profiteers masquerading as purveyors of truth and salvation.
melbguy11,313 posts11-09-2016 9:03pm"Why So ManyRaidhoSpeaker For Sale?"...because they have cheap cabinets and are massively over-priced (i.e: waste of money).
Well one thing is certain, few who enjoy the Magico sound will ever appreciate the virtues of Raidho. That is still no reason to embarrass yourself.
As an ex owner of Raidho and a current owner of Scansonics I say one is a "fools buy" being the Raidho as they dump in value too quickly..Overprised for sure but the line changes way too often hence I think lots of older models available on the secondary market..Would I buy them again,no way unless a fire sale
Selfish, instantaneous, personal gratification is what America is all about IMO. Anyway, by buying "over-priced" Danish imports will mean some of my hard earned cash will, eventually, through Dantax A/S taxes (or other routes), get to the Danish government -- only for it to be spent on saving some Syrians from terror (or whatever, ZZzzz). So, in my own, small-minded and selfish way, I am doing MY bit for saving these people. Can you say the same? No! You cheapskates intent on spending only a few pennies on domestic Hi-Fi are NOT Saving The Children (unlike me) Ha!, twisted logic in action. In other words: "buy Raidho, save a Syrian" ... could this be the end of this thread? Hope so.
What about The Electric Recording Co charging 300 quid (or more for a re-issue classic LP? Maybe I should start a new one for that.
I bought Raidho's 'cos they beat the pants off other speakers I auditioned in my price range. Yes, they cost $55k+, but I had the money. I wanted them ... so I bought them... the American Dream in action. I heard other speakers that cost more, but I was left under-whelmed. I heard others that cost less but they missed the mark. The Raidho's hit the sweet spot. I am very happy with my D3s and have NO buyers remorse.
Could I have given the money to saving some Syrian refugees? Sure, but I didn't 'cos I don't give a monkey's uncle about them. Could I have saved some kids in Africa? Sure, but I didn't - for the same reasons (I don't give a *&^%).
If you're too poor to buy Raidho's - stop whining. Save your cash, buy them and *then* comment (a 10min crappy "demo" at a show playing Vanessa Fernandez [agghhh] doesn't count). As for me, I am too poor right now to buy Rockport Arrakis, Magico Q7s or Raidho D5s ... but you don't hear me whining. One day I will ... unless I give it all away to Save The Children ... but that's not likely to happen anytime soon.
I agree with analogluvr, I too have spent great amounts of money on a piece of equipment, only to find I don't like it. Once I replaced everything in my system after buying a pair of speakers which everyone raved about, including us regular people. I forced myself into thinking it was everything else and not the new speakers. I was a bit naïve back then but not anymore. Raidho isn't my cup of tea either, it may be ok for a small jazz ensemble or some classical, but certainly not for Pink Floyd or 70's rock or for prog rock.
Personally, I would never spend more than 5-6 grand on speakers or on any other equipment. Don't get me started on cables, especially when certain pairs of cables can cost as much as a new Porsche! I'll say this again, my late dad always said that "there's an ass for every seat". That's especially true in our hobby.
My comment was related to the thread because I'm specifically commenting on how ridiculous it would be to spend that kind of money on Raidho speakers. And no it's not evil it's just dumb. And don't feel bad because I've spent lots of money on stuff before, only to have been underwhelmed and later wondering why I did so. High-end audio as a whole is full of rip offs.
So what’s the difference between derailed and officially derailed? By all means Bo can’t self-promote himself because is full of feces. He’s never sold any high-end products professionally and all he does is cutting salad of words and throw them everywhere he gets onto the discussion. I can’t see that as derail at all. Ebm brings sometimes meaningful and sometimes unmeaningful 1..2-liners with exclamation and Bo does the same with PAGES. My macaw (be aware my equipment isn’t children and pet free LOL!!!) sometimes plugs words to dialogue or discussion that are also sometimes meaningful...
I discovered Audiogon about two years ago, and have been surprised at how many relatively new items have been offered on the site, for considerable discounts from "retail". I have made two purchases where the seller said they were condition 9 out of 10, when the items arrived, the tape on the factory sealed carton had not been breached! I think the site attracts some people who enjoy trying out equipment and maybe have connections to obtain it at significant discounts from "retail", don't lose much in turning the items over. I am not a Raidho "expert" by any means, but have auditioned a few of their floor standing models, not my "cup of tea", but excellent speakers.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
