I just bought a new CD player and was underwhelmed with it compared to my cheaper, lower quality CD player. That’s when it hit me that my cheaper CD player is using an upgraded power cable. When I put an upgraded power cable on my new CD player, the sound was instantly transformed: the treble was tamed, the music was more dynamic and lifelike, and overall more musical.
This got me thinking as to how in the world a power cable can affect sound. I want to hear all of your ideas. Here’s one of my ideas:
I have heard from many sources that a good power cable is made of multiple gauge conductors from large gauge to small gauge. The electrons in a power cable are like a train with each electron acting as a train car. When a treble note is played, for example, the small gauge wires can react quickly because that “train” has much less mass than a large gauge conductor. If you only had one large gauge conductor, you would need to accelerate a very large train for a small, quick treble note, and this leads to poor dynamics. A similar analogy might be water in a pipe. A small pipe can react much quicker to higher frequencies than a large pipe due to the decreased mass/momentum of the water in the pipe.
That’s one of my ideas. Now I want to hear your thoughts and have a general discussion of why power cables matter.
If you don’t think power cables matter at all, please refrain from derailing the conversation with antagonism. There a time and place for that but not in this thread please.
gregb6333 posts12-16-2018 7:13pm😂😂😂 this forum is funny! Most of you are full of it but still funny!! Lots of self proclaimed experts.. what a riot!! Keep em coming.. this is great entertainment!!
So true, Greg. I got a laugh at the concept of photons in the power cord. Guys, photons are LIGHT energy, not electrical.
Yes, photons carry energy, but thats not what travels through a power cable. That would be electrons.
I can understand an argument saying that a larger power cord can move the energy in a better, more dynamic way, and that may benefit the transformer to improve performance. But, I'm not buying any argument saying that it's because of the photons from gamma rays inside a power cord that makes the music sound different. That's just ridiculous.
In my opinion you won't get the answer here because as jea48 just posted ( from a John Curl interview ) listen to what you hear , if it sounds better to you then GOOD , if not then try something else . Experience in your system is the only way to evaluate and come to a conclusion . I've been able to try different power cables and have been amazed at the difference in sound between different manufactures . Since the manufacture Pangea has been kicked around I'll share my experience , my friend has an Oppo CD player so he have purchased a 14 gauge pc for it , better than stock , then he tried a 9 gauge pc and it sounded better ! doesn't make sense but it did . Engineers would have calculated the current draw required and installed the appropriate gauge ( 18 ? ) .
Try the Cable company since they have a try it policy or buy used cables to try and keep what you like and sell the rest .
We get a lot of ’show me the measurements’ requests to what we hear. Many are not engineers or whatever it is you need to be to have measurements. But a lot of us do trust our ears. Then some say don’t trust your ears. So I thought this had a nice reasonable comment on how this gentleman feels. I think he has some credentials to say what he does. At about 9:15 in the video this man states how he feels if you cannot measure something yet still hear it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grzoqEb2KMk&feature=youtu.be
Also I may try to make a cord like williewonka suggests.. a spiral.. For a source to start.
Agreed, my sources benefitted the most from good power cords
FYI - I have a Node 2 streamer and a Moon LP5.3 phono stage. - of the two, I originally believed the Node 2 would achieve more noticeable improvements by using a good power cable e.g. improvements in image, clarity and dynamics - however, those improvements in sound quality achieved by using the same power cable on the phono stage were more noticeable. - by comparison, my Naim amp displayed some very subtle improvements in clarity, image size and performer focus, but it took a while and several albums to notice them. I take this as an indication that the NAIM has a more capable power supply.
FYI: depending on the wire/connectors used they can take upwards of 60 hours burn-in to sound their best.
One improvement that was reported by a fellow DIYer is their "black background" - while I tend to listen to improvements in sound I had never realized just how quiet the cables are :-)
While the Helix geometry does improve the performance of the actual cable it does not act as a filter, so noise from the household supply will not be removed - it can actually become more noticeable. I fortunately have a very quiet household supply.
I use a 12 gauge cable for sources and a 10 gauge cable for the amp. But I recently built a 14 gauge version for my TV and it too was very good when used on a source.
The benefits when used on my Samsung QLED TV were - improved sound, brighter, more vibrant colours, better contrast i.e. more details in dark areas. My Sony TV also demonstrated much better colour.
You have contributed your findings on power cables in many postings, so it will be very interesting to hear your observations of the Helix
In 1985, while dealing with a common home builder, "3 home styles / 3 color choices", I was able to negotiate double sheet rock in listening - living area and home run romex wiring to the locations for my equipment. No before and after comparison available. After listening for a few weeks, I went to the local home improvement store and changed the outlets from 15 amp to the 20 amp outlets. The improvement was immediate and positive. ALL interactions in all areas of your system be affected if you have the ability to compare, patience to listen, and understanding of the changes made. Sometimes the differences are not an improvement, but there will be a change.
As an EE I initially chaffed at the notion that a power chord could affect the sound of a piece of equipment because the AC signal is typically rectified and smoothed to DC by capacitors. After being blown away by apparently large improvements in SQ after installing conditioners and wires from Synergistic Research and then Audience, I started to think more about it.
The first point is that my assumption of smoothing by the capacitors is weak. There is always ripple, a saw tooth shaped variation in the DC (not quite) voltage, and sharp current transient spikes replenishing the energy stored in the caps. These spikes are comprised of high frequency components, producing corresponding distorting voltages, which may not be effectively handled (filtered) by the large filter caps which are not ideal and function as intended for low frequencies only. These high frequency signals then bleed through the caps and can then be reflected back and forth between the power source and the amplifier circuitry based on transmission theory. This doesn’t even address the potential noise generated in digital systems that will appear on the signal and power bus of a system. Perhaps power chords and line-conditioning affects these also?
Our problem is that we distill a technical problem down to a simple ohm’s law based steady state small-signal analysis. In reality, power connections are inherently a large signal transient analysis problem which could be analyzed but aren’t. Bottom line is that many of us learn Ohm’s law and think we understand everything and we try to simplify/distill a problem down to fit our analysis abilities. Ironically, I don’t believe that many of the cable producers have great technical insight, but rather, they have a practical insight into what seems to work.
keep this in mind...roberjerman has claimed over and over, that power cables have NO difference in sound, Duder, Tell him to try drinking something other then Kessler or 5oclock let's get that right
It is notable, remarkable and confounding that in the year almost 2019 we are still pretending to "debate" weather power cords make a difference when it is obvious that they can make a difference in high-resolution music reproduction systems as has been heard and reported by so many here and elsewhere and can easily, readily, and reliably be confirmed by others if they care to listen to such a system at least for those who "know" how to listen. You need not spend a fortune to attain improved power cord performance such as the Aluminata AC cords of which I have several and these cost about $3,500 USD each although you can sometimes get a small discount in my country. I recommend these without qualification, hesitation, or caveat other than the caution that of course synergy is important and no one cable, cord, or anything else will prove to be the "best" in every system I think we can agree I hope.
This is simple fact, truth, and demonstrated reality and anyone who attempts to ridicule, humiliate, or chastise me for stating the simple, plain, and accepted truth will be reported to the moderators who are obviously monitoring, managing, and controlling this thread for which I am grateful.
twoch"We only want to hear what we agree with no free speach Zone please it hurts feeling"
If you're feelings are hurt or you are embarassed, uncomfortable, or confused by simple, demonstrable, and obvious truths then I would say you must not have tried better quality power cables as have others here who have reported they're experiences so I suggest, encourage, and recommend that you try to improve the low quality cables that it appears you are using based on your language here. The extraordinary performance of my primary music reproduction system is very much built on the foundation, basis, and science of the Aluminata AC cords that I referenced previously in this thread.
maritime51"that it is honestly debated shows it isn’t a generally accepted notion
The simple fact and truth as this thread has plainly shown, demonstrated, and revealed is that it has not been honestly debated there have been trolls, self-proclaimed "experts" and "authorities" who have infiltrated this group/thread to disrupt, derail, and prevent the discussion of the various options and choices for quality power cords such as the
Aluminata AC cord and there is universal agreement that these cords make a difference by those who have experimented, listened, and tested these alternatives with the exception of those who are blinded, consumed, and vulnerable to their own preconceived bias, prejudice, and delusions with the exception of those who lack music reproduction systems of sufficient resolution, signal to noise ratio and/or dynamic range to demonstrate such results and the proof is in the many posts that the moderators have deleted and I have reason to believe have even banned from the group for their ignorance, provocations, and defiance of this forum's rules, guidelines and policies.
A silly question, perhaps...... If you purchase a power regenerator, I assume you do NOT need a better power cord for the regenerator itself. Yes? Because if takes power, confers to DC before producing 'clean' AC again, I would guess the power coming in can be as dirty as you like. I don't know, curious.
After all the crazy post in this thread, mostly filled with speculation, opinion, and misinformation... I took the time to read this article by Caelin Gabriel of Shunyata Research Inc. Now, I certainly realize that he is selling his wares. But, this article seems much more closely aligned with reality than a lot of the other comments in this thread. And, it really explained to me why a power cord could make an audible difference. If you want to learn something about this concept, definitely take the time to read the article. Then, decide for yourself!
Just the idea that an audio component is NOT at the end of the power chain (it's actually in the middle) was a revelation for me. It helps clarify for me how the power cord could act like a component.
For the record, I recently put in Signal Cable PCs and even though I was a skeptic before (and my better half thought I was nuts for even considering spending money on a new PC), I have to admit we both agreed there was an audible improvement after we put the cables into the system. These are under $100 each, and I think they are worth that cost. I don't think spending $1k would be worth it... at least not to me. But, I am more of a believer now that I've tried it.
What’s the point in posing the question if your foreclose any “general” discussion?
@maritime, I looked carefully at the OP. I don't see anything asking for a debate. His presupposition was that it makes a difference, and he asked for a discussion of why. And he specifically asked not to have the debate.
Instead of listening to music per session and trying to hear if there is a difference, wouldn't it be better to record, say, cymbals, or a flute tone, a guitar note, isolated, and try to a/b it to see if the cord is impacting the sound?
maritime51"this is a forum, which, by definition invites debate."
The forum has rules which you apparently feel you can unilaterally
dictate, define, and ignore at your sole discretion, determination, and authority I am alerting moderators to your spam, abuse, and winkly dinkler posture you are preventing the free exchange of ideas, information, and experiences you are a troll who has come here to argue, disrupt, and insult you are probably a child of about the age of 10.
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