Nice echo.
Why Power Cables Affect Sound
I just bought a new CD player and was underwhelmed with it compared to my cheaper, lower quality CD player. That’s when it hit me that my cheaper CD player is using an upgraded power cable. When I put an upgraded power cable on my new CD player, the sound was instantly transformed: the treble was tamed, the music was more dynamic and lifelike, and overall more musical.
This got me thinking as to how in the world a power cable can affect sound. I want to hear all of your ideas. Here’s one of my ideas:
I have heard from many sources that a good power cable is made of multiple gauge conductors from large gauge to small gauge. The electrons in a power cable are like a train with each electron acting as a train car. When a treble note is played, for example, the small gauge wires can react quickly because that “train” has much less mass than a large gauge conductor. If you only had one large gauge conductor, you would need to accelerate a very large train for a small, quick treble note, and this leads to poor dynamics. A similar analogy might be water in a pipe. A small pipe can react much quicker to higher frequencies than a large pipe due to the decreased mass/momentum of the water in the pipe.
That’s one of my ideas. Now I want to hear your thoughts and have a general discussion of why power cables matter.
If you don’t think power cables matter at all, please refrain from derailing the conversation with antagonism. There a time and place for that but not in this thread please.
This got me thinking as to how in the world a power cable can affect sound. I want to hear all of your ideas. Here’s one of my ideas:
I have heard from many sources that a good power cable is made of multiple gauge conductors from large gauge to small gauge. The electrons in a power cable are like a train with each electron acting as a train car. When a treble note is played, for example, the small gauge wires can react quickly because that “train” has much less mass than a large gauge conductor. If you only had one large gauge conductor, you would need to accelerate a very large train for a small, quick treble note, and this leads to poor dynamics. A similar analogy might be water in a pipe. A small pipe can react much quicker to higher frequencies than a large pipe due to the decreased mass/momentum of the water in the pipe.
That’s one of my ideas. Now I want to hear your thoughts and have a general discussion of why power cables matter.
If you don’t think power cables matter at all, please refrain from derailing the conversation with antagonism. There a time and place for that but not in this thread please.
Showing 42 responses by nonoise
@mzkmxcv, No. Just google "the dress" and you'll see all the difference images. Now look at anything but the dress. The background lighting is different as are it's colors. It's not just the dress. One of those images will take you to a simple demonstration of someone adjusting the white balance in adobe and gradually the dress color changes, as everything else in the picture does. What are the chances that all broadcasting and rebroadcasting (not to mention the intentional altering for the sake of a story) are identically balanced? And yes, I've seen that optical illusion you refer to decades ago. It's been around for ages. All the best, Nonoise |
@mzkmxcv, I'm not confusing anything as it was simply due to an imbalance of the white setting. All of the thousands of stations broadcasting are not entirely in sync. No mystery involved although there was a lot of blather as to what could be the explanation. If anyone is susceptible to placebo or influence, you just admitted to it with your story of how you saw it and what you went through. I didn't. So heed your own advice and don't confuse your reality with actual reality. All it does is deter newcomers. 👍 All the best, Nonoise |
@mzkmxcv, When you saw that dress at different times, was it from the very same source and not from ones that intentionally showed different versions of it? I, myself, saw different colors from different sources that intended to show them that way due to admitted use of filters or to make a point. I never saw a different color when looking at the same picture from the same source or site. Are you saying your were fooled by that, and that is your analogy? All the best, Nonoise |
@mzkmxcv, I think mrdecibel is right, you're simply trolling, or proselytizing (which is as bad), trying your best to convert those who know better. We can hear the difference and don't need saving. That, and it's funny how you end a lot of your proclamations with "I'd like to see it" and not, I'd like to hear it. What's up with that? All the best, Nonoise |
I can't believe you're bringing up placebo. That dog won't hunt. Anyone who falls for placebo won't, in the long run. Patients will eventually take a turn for the worse, and/or die. Anyone who's tricked into hearing something will shortly right their hearing after the "test" is over. It's not permanent. That's why it's a cheap parlor trick. That, and it goes both ways: those who refuse to believe they won't hear something won't. They'll just fall back on their math, manual, and cite others, sometimes because they simply can't hear all that well, or they have an agenda. All the best, Nonoise |
@elizabeth , Well said. There has to be a stop put to the notion that there is some kind of cut off point where there's junk that benefits from the use of better cords and conditioners and above that, everything is perfect and won't. That's way too simplistic an argument and not at all in standing with what's been observed. All the best, Nonoise |
I’m sure there is but do you honestly think that we’re at the height of our ability to measure it or that there will be no more advances in our ability to measure? Add to that that there’s no doubt that there are differences in say, sound staging ability as we’ve all heard the differences, so what accounts for that and how is it measured? All the best, Nonoise |
I can’t believe that insulting those who have heard differences between power cords orIt’s become a favorite pastime for some once they realized they couldn’t convince us otherwise. Repeatedly. It’s no longer about the cables. All the best, Nonoise |
I am surprised no one else picked up on this. An interesting poll would be to see if any companies include on paper, in their user instructions, opinions that one should invest in the best possible or best matching PC to go with their amp, preamp, DAC, Turntable or whatever?The manual that comes with the Kinki EX-M1 integrated states to get rid of the "el cheapo" power cord that comes with it and to get a better one. it’s very dissapointing to think that they don’t know how to build a great power supply to perform that task at the levels most of us invest in our equipment. I think they do know but they weigh the costs of building a robust power supply that a smaller percentage of users will appreciate compared to the majority who will simply be content with it. They're buying the brand and nothing more. The more discerning here will seek out better so don't despair: it's just the way things are. Sarjan over at 6moons marveled at the overbuilt power supply on the Jay's Audio CDT, saying that it distinguishes top hifi gear from the entry level. This is not to say that ARC or other great makes are entry level, but a lot of gear built today is derived from the same group think that used to think that as long as it's built to spec and what the manual dictates, than all is well. That way of thinking has held back real innovation. Working outside the box is what's needed. All the best, Nonoise |
I simply don't get it. One can easily hear the differences in better power cords and one needn't spend a lot. That, and you can simply try it for yourself, unless you have a tin ear then all bets are off. That, and your life as an audiophile just became a whole lot easier and cheaper. Best Buy here I come! All the best, Nonoise |
Thank goodness I live in the South West. That tidbit of info on the effects due to location and/or geography goes a long way to explain why some benefit from power conditioning and some don't, and why some don't hear the benefits after hearing of those who do. Another onion layer removed, only to reveal yet another. 🤔 All the best, Nonoise |
Very well said, Michael. A lot of this stuff was supposedly settled a long time ago, or so I thought (as well). And as you said, thanks to the mods of A'gon as they've had a rather Herculean task as of late (or was is Ulysses?). 🤔 Anyway, it ranks right up there with slaying something. 🗡 All the best, Nonoise |
It could be technically correct that the power cable is not in the signal chain but it can limit and alter the amps ability to accurately reproduce the signal by messing with the power. It's not that hard of a concept to wrap one's head around. I've experienced a limiting of the soundstage, dynamics and a general softening of the music, obscuring details, ambience and extension as a result. All of that by use of a lesser power cord than what the situation demands. Not in the way that a speaker cable or interconnect can do but in the end, the results were strikingly similar. All the best, Nonoise |
I think Steve must have stumbled upon this thread as his insight on all of this is pretty spot on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRRe3soIZFU And, despite his reasoned approach, check out some of the naysayers in the comments section. They're cut from the same cloth as those here. All the best, Nonoise |
Prof, You never answered a question I asked you quite some time ago. It went something like: What do your co-workers think about cables? If I remember correctly, you work in the recording industry so your peers are just as into audio as the rest of us. Surely, conversations abound on all manner of topics pertaining to audio. How do they feel about cables and what do they use in their systems at home? Add to that their views on placebo while your at it. All the best, Nonoise |
The reason I never replied to @prof was that I went to sleep after my last post. The urgent and provocative nature of his reply belies what seems to be a basic need to argue, however skillfully, to no apparent end. The man loves to hear himself talk. Waking up to the provocations and like was entertaining, to say the (really) least. His analogies are tangential at best, as they are off the subject and designed to lull lessor discerning folk into conflating an obvious conclusion with one not really relatable. Nice tactic. It's like listening to a broken record. Take placebo. This has been hashed to death and yet it rears it's stupid head. When it comes to audio, anyone can be fooled by a cheap parlor trick, as it's done in the short term. Myriad variables are introduced in a A/B test that are simply not present when listening as a pleasure. After being fooled in a A/B test, one simply goes back to their system and in short order, they can recognize the differences that fooled them after immersing themselves in a listening session. The placebo excuse assumes that we all go on listening the wrong way. A simply silly notion. To assume that we are so fallible, broken and easily fooled all day, every day, and we are not to trust our senses, begs the notion as to why we're all still alive, having not blown up, shocked, or killed ourselves in some silly manner due to placebo, or some other phenomenon. All the best, Nonoise |
@mkgus, Thanks, you beat me to it. 👍 As for the rest of n80's argument, don't conflate what someone buys and is happy with with the "straw man" argument that mkgus states. I could care less and even be happy for anyone who bought a great PC for $1K or even more. It's their money and I'm not in the least jealous about it. In fact, if I had the disposable income, I'd try out PCs costing at least that, but I don't. Having said that, PCs in the $300-$500 price range can give you great returns on your investment. All the best, Nonoise |
To think we are all at the mercy of Romex makes one want to quit this hobby. We can't do a thing about it so why bother? Just buy some piece of crap from Best Buy and be done with it. That's like saying we're all at the mercy of our roads so why bother getting a car we know can handle and ride better than the average rust bucket out there. All the best, Nonoise |
So here I am questioning how in the hell a cable that isn’t even in the signal chain improves the soundSays who? That’s cherry picking. Remove the power cord and nothing happens. Rectification done after receiving power from said power cord is rarely done correctly (look at all the different ways it’s done: there are those who will always find fault in anyone's design) and fully so it’s going to mess with signal. Rectifiers impart tone. It’s not pure and perfect after the power cord delivers the power. Never is and never will be. All the best, Nonoise |