The info above came from an article in HiFi News & Record Review that I read decades ago! Peter Walker was asked if he listened to his amps during the design process. He said no! He replied that his amps were designed to specifications and that no final listening was necessary! And this from one of the great pioneers of the Golden Age of tube HiFi.
Why don’t tube amps sound like tubes anymore?
When I hear the latest tube amps I’m more reminded of what a solid state amp sounds like than what I remember a tube amp once sounded like. I say that, with most tube amps I hear today, but not all. Gone seems to be the lush tones, warm glow and natural harmonics I used to hear. What I hear is more of a thoroughbred, faster, sharper sound when I listen to a modern tube design today. Then why use tubes?
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Back in the days of yore Peter Walker (of Quad fame) arranged a comparative listening test of a tube vs. a transistor amp. Speakers were the Quad 57's. The amps were the Quad II mono's and the 303 (SS).. 15wpc and 35wpc, respectively. Signal source was 15 IPS copies of EMI master tapes. Listeners were members of the British audio press and HiFi industry. After extensive listening to both amps the general consensus was that no difference could be heard - both amps sounded the same! |
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I'm new to tubes and people have said (in forum posts and in articles) that tube gear sounds like solid state depending upon *which tubes* are used. But the conversation above doesn't really talk about which tubes very much, and people are mentioning that the responsible differences involve "caps" or "resistors" etc. How much do the particular tubes used play into the final sound of the tube amp sound? |
Wima caps wee used in most of the Counterpoint power amps and preamps. That being said, I would call those products not sounding like tubes even as hybrids. The mosfets gave that warm sound. Taking out the Wima for Nichicon and V-Caps retains the musical sound but more to what you are describing. Replacing the mosfets with bi-polar transistors is another story. Happy Listening. |
hiendmmoe Why don’t tube amps sound like tubes anymore? I found with many of the tube amps I owned (especially remember a pair of 100w switchable ultralinear/triode/pentode monoblocks 4 x NOS 6550 GE mil spec each amp I had), "and improved the sound" on over many months with better interleaved output transformers better caps, getting the tubes to work in the more linear part of their curves, power supplies etc etc. The "better I made those tube amps and others sound and measure", the closer they got to the sound of "great high bias solid state amps", the rest is history for me with tubes, never again. Cheers George |
erik_squires8,881 posts05-24-2020 1:31pmIf you ask me, it's the almost universal switch to the use of Wima caps. LOL, I never though of it, but they are in just about everything new and older (not ancient). They sound great, close tolerance, and last just about forever.. Regards |
don_c55 "Because the extreme high end wants a certain sound and imaging that has changed over the last several decades. The current trend is: Exaggerated high frequencies and etched sound = "detail", biting unnatural attacks = "fast transient response", and unnaturally dry bass = "taut" and “tight" " Good argument. Fashion shouldn't be an issue when it comes to audio playback. Yet it often is, as any visit to a high end show will usually demonstrate. One explanation given by a certain UK reviewer is that this is done as an attempt to grab the listener's attention as fast as possible. Particularly the elevated treble issue so commonly seen in many speaker designs which can give the impression of superior detail resolution in the short term - but lead to fatigue and headaches in the long. Some used to even talk about sonic tastes varying from country to country, eg a French sound, an Italian sound, a German sound, or in America, an East and West coast sound. I wonder if this is still the case? Anyway, as far as tube amps go, weren't Single Ended Triode (SET) amps the most representative of the classic tube sound of yore? https://hometheaterreview.com/whats-so-irresistible-about-a-single-ended-triode-set-amp/ |
There is something else to consider. The new valve preamps and amps have heat limitations. They just can't get as hot as the old and be sold, as a retail unit. The really great sounding valve units made today, are borderline with the heat issue, and probably tip the scales in the summer months.. Production runs of 5-50. Not 500 to 5,000. 20,000.00 vs 3-5000.00 that 20,000.00 (sometimes) will get the "tube" sound back... The 3-5,000.00 model will keep the heat out, the sound., maybe. The new VTLs might as well be SS they sound so, SS..LOL Really, they remind me of the older Krells. Regards |
Its always tough to generalize, but the long term trend has been for solid state to less harsh and grainy and tubes to less lush and syrupy. Or solid state more full and rounded and tubes more tight and clean. However you want to put it. Why is probably because most of us are trying to get to the truth, and so over time the two approaches are bound to converge. |
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