I just responded to the thread on how many sources do you have ( shotgunning tonight) and got me wondering why I love vinyl so much? Have a very good digital side on both my main system and my headphone system as well that was set up for Redbook playback (headphone system) only utilising my vast 1,000 CD collection, enjoyed it for about a year, added a turntable and haven't used it since. My love of vinyl has been with me for 55 years, buying and playing, setting up my tables , matching preamps and enjoying the fruit of my labor. I believe my love of vinyl is a simple one, it stemmed from the hands on, need to tinker and adjust that I was born with, it's a very physical attraction that I just can not resist, it satisfies a lot of needs for me and in some way is that mistress that I maintain. My turntable is massive and so easy to look at, I can touch it and get more out of it, I can read about the artist and get info while I listen to an album, I can swap out a cartridge and change the tone and in the day the album covers served as a rolling tray to roll a joint. I love vinyl, but absolutely understand while others don't. I also envy people like uberwaltz that have and use so many sources, wish I could. What say you?
uberwaltz-like I mentioned, I've had 2 very good r2r decks in the last few years and I have recorded digital music to them. The Otari has very good specs and sounded very good but wasn't any better than straight out of a dac. I bought the r2r to record my vinyl so in case I got rid of my tt or my vinyl albums would become noisy, I would have analog recordings of my albums. It was much cheaper to rebuy the bad album than to buy the tape to record at 15ips
Digital frequently sounds “super clean” - hyper-analytical you could say - but that’s because it’s missing a lot of the harmonica and other information, like the bass harmonics and sweetness and air. The missing information also gives a false sense of low distortion. Oh, well, whaddya want fir nothin’? Listen to Heifetz on CD. Then listen to the same recording on vinyl or even cassette. No contest. Case closed.
Of course CD's sound analogue - all of them - that's why you call it a digital to analogue convertor - it's more a case of getting cd's to sound like vinyl - just jokingly pedantic. I claim absolutely no science knowledge on this at all - I say this at the outset, but I recall reading a review about a top end Meridian and they have apparently got rid of 'digital hash' - I would love to hear it. I concur with the fact that vinyl has that sit down and listen quality, but this has as much to do with the format as the sound itself. I personally like the consistency, cleanliness and fault free sound of CD and enjoy it for what it is - likewise I enjoy the eccentricity fussiness and seduction of vinyl. Healthy salad vs Sunday dinner. I have, until recently, had a rubbish CD player. I got myself a Cayin CD-55 at the end of last year with a valve output stage and I think it is absolutely superb - very musical - superb at imaging and easy to sit down and listen to. I agree with the sentiment that price of entry to good sound from CD is waaaay cheaper than Vinyl. - likewise it is more consistent too.
Some computer malfunction in "the cloud" or a blip in the net can (and sometimes does) render streaming simply outta here...I have yet to get a buzzkill from my turntable or CD player, and the only way to hear the music on all that vinyl is to put the record on, so to speak.
Until the trendy twenty somethings got into it, vinyl tends to have a personal connection in that you build uo a collection of records over the years. In my case it was in the 90's when I was a lousy party DJ playing funk and soul. It wasn't a status symbol so much as it is now. You get a mental connection with playing a record. Being physical it's fun to fiddle with - you can't do that so readily with CD. Records are also mixed to be warmer than digital and don't have as high a bandwidth. Apparently it is the very distortion - which can be likened to a pen thickening on a seismograph that makes vinyl sound so good. I must confess, if I was to start again - digital all the way. Not coz it sounds better, but because CD's are mega cheap second-hand at the minute, and music lovers want music - they don't care about format
I can't put my finger on it but it something about cranking up the old turntable and letting it rip. Every genre brings something unique to the party. As tooblue stated rolling a joint on the album cover is something that I will remember although I puffed but I didn't inhale (alledgedly)
How cheap and basic do you want to go? Google Chromecast Audio, $45 on eBay Will stream up to 24/96 from Tidal or Qobuz and output over analog rca or mini toslink. And then from there the sky is the limit or how deep is your pocket? Plenty of good threads on that subject but feel free to start a new one and get the current crop of the streamers.
I just signed up for Tidal, looking forward to trying recording to reel to reel. Just need to find a good value streaming device that can maximize Tidal’s “HiFi” potential. Any suggestions?
Mijostyn-here is your statement: All my optical discs have been transferred to the hard drive. I took them all to Bull Moose Music and traded them in for....Records! $1500.00 worth. you copied all of your discs to a hard drive then sold them. This is illegal as hell. This has nothing to do with streaming, this have everything to do with copying, keeping a copy, then selling the discs. also, why would you tape a digital recording when you can play it at anytime? If you were listening to a one time recording, then yes, recording to r2r makes sense. i have owned a few 15 ips r2r decks, the Otari 5050 and the pioneer 901. The pioneer only sounded good at 15ips whereas the Otari sounded great at both 7.5 and 15ips. So you need to spend some cash to get a good r2r that does 15ips and then you’re going to pay a premium for tape. After a while, I just didn’t see a need for a r2r.
When I put on Cat Stevens' Tea for the Tillerman from Acoustic Records Pressings - their first release - I heard sounds and instruments that I never heard before in any of the version I own. That is why I love vinyl.
I am also enamored with Direct 2 Disc recordings. They just jump out at me like I am in the club itself. That is why I love vinyl.
Every pull out an gatefold LP that you haven't listened to since High School and find a little herb in there? That is why I love vinyl.
as a lifelong motorcyclist I much prefer leather as opposed to vinyl.
It's warmer and has more abrasion resistance. As for records, they wear out a little bit every time you play them. The needle
wears out a little bit every time you play
it, they get noisier as they get older, they're prone to vibrations.
About cheapest and easiest way you can get into streaming is likely a Google Chromecast Audio gizmo. About $40 to $45 on fleabay. Should connect to your home Wi-Fi and then stream both Tidal and Qobuz, Spotify too I think. It can output RCA analog or toslink digital. Good luck with the future......
I am going to address this streaming aspect of music into my life, the availability is just to overwhelming and I really can't ignore it any more. My new music influx has been a couple of XM radio channels, Little Stevies Underground Garage & Tom Pettys Buried Treasure, as well as keeping up with my favorite artist and buying their stuff on vinyl as it is released. I am an old dog with old ways so I will incorporate my nephew who shares my love of music, plays in a few bands for fun on piano and has his master's in computer science to set me up with something to get me going on my headphone system upstairs as well as to go back and research the past discussions here.
I'm over it, streaming is the future and today's DAC's smooth out all the wrinkles. Ease of use, infinite library and sonic clarity trump the snap, crackle and pop of vinyl. Streaming has opened up a whole new world of musical genres that vinyl doesn't touch.
“Apart from all the other reasons you mentioned, my reason is simple. Original well-recorded analogue records sound better than any reissues. Warts and all, there is a see-through clarity with the originals.”
Agreed. Most of the music I love was recorded and mastered with only vinyl playback in mind. Subsequent CD transfers often - no usually - leave something to be desired.
Furthermore almost all remasters (ie inappropriately added bass) are usually inferior in dynamics, at least in my experience.
Properly done remasters from impeccable sources with the dynamics left intact are an unfortunate rarity (I suspect deliberately so for marketing purposes).
Love the fluid expressiveness and dynamic range of vinyl
When I want to really connect with a piece of music, vinyl does it best for me.
One thing I'd add is if you're near a big city, access to cheap vinyl is a big plus. For $4 or $5 bucks I've explored the entire Deep Purple catalog, Tommie Bolin, Modern Jazz Quartet, Brand X etc etc. Vinyl feeds my exploring nature on the cheap.
But I do have 2,000 CD's, stream music, have an IPOD, and Sirius XM for convience and mobility. But vinyl for serious, lights out deep connection listening.
Mike Tbh I have never read the small print that goes along with hitting that little box saying I accept the terms and regulations maybe I should have ... Lol
Because that is EXACTLY what I do. I have some fantastic R2R copies streamed direct from Qobuz 24/ 96 hirez files.
Maybe it is not legal, I do not know but it is not the first time I have mentioned this in these forums and nobody has ever got bent out of shape over it.
And when I replay those reels it is magical and the tape seems to give it that little bit of warmth and air that makes it so enjoyable and just downright foot tapping good! Then it is a VERY hard call between the record or the reel......
rbstehno, I have not done anything illegal...yet. There is nothing the streaming services can do to prevent people from making analog recordings of streamed material and as long as people are not selling it to others I have absolutely no problem with it. Uberwaltz, do you sign any kind of agreement when you purchase streaming rights not to make analog recordings of the files?
rbstehno, It all depends on how you do things. Once set up I go a decade or more between cartridges changes. I use a dust cover and a conductive sweep arm. My records never get dirty, I never have to clean them. All my records sound as good as the day I got them. There is very little wear because plat time is distributed over thousands of records. I love flipping people out when I tell them they are listening to a record not digital. Yes, I am an old guy and I can not deny there is a lot of tradition and nostalgia in this. But, I am also a very early adopter. I was using DSP technology long before most people knew what they were. I started using subwoofers in 1978. I guess I love everything that makes listening to music better and collecting easier. Now I am going to get a Reel to Reel and start recording streamed files:)))
Mijostyn-you did an illegal thing and you’re bragging about it online? No different than a bank robber bragging about his heist on Facebook. Lalitk- some of the worst sounding albums are from many decades ago too. Most of the remastered material I own is better than the original release unless the original was full range. My biggest gripe of the older material is all the compression they had (still do in analog to some extent) to perform, which is why analog sounds so smooth/non-fatiguing. I’ve been listening to Fourplay all morning using my PS Audio DS dac and it sounds as good as any vinyl, smooth, quiet, and with dynamic range. I have always liked DSD, and since the DS dac converts redbook to DSD, I can see why this sounds as good as it does, all at the same time looking at Roon’s liner notes
Latitk, I have absolutely no problem with digital. My front end is entirely digital. Has been for 20 years! My phono amp even runs through a Benchmark ADC. I buy high res files from HD Tracks and Acoustic Sounds on a weekly basis. But, I collect music. To me streaming is not collecting. IMHO Records are a better collectible than hard copies of digital files. Here's one for you. You could get a Reel to Reel and record the streamed files in real time. Now you have me thinking....
Mike Funny you should say that as I too stream Pandora when on the road from my hotel room via laptop, stream quality really does not matter too much via crummy laptop speakers and low volume...lol.
But for the serious listening in the main home rig then Qobuz has really upped the ante imho.
Uberwaltz, thanx for the update. I have not paid much attention to it. I only steam Pandora in the office. It is free if you don't mind an occasional ad. Lalitk, I did not say anything about the sound, just that I don't like collecting them. All my optical discs have been transferred to the hard drive. I took them all to Bull Moose Music and traded them in for....Records! $1500.00 worth. How much fun can you have on a Sunday:)
Great post. It all comes down to the original source of the recorded media. Vinyl being the oldest format has some of the best recorded material. I found many recordings on Tidal/ Qobuz and XRCD’s that are well recorded and very engaging.
The key here is to have a decent system, be it analog or digital. Some of the responses I have seen here are boiling down to their ‘resistance’ for a change. They are probably ‘afraid’ what if I end up preferring the streaming over LP’s 😊
I think I’ve had a dozen different turntables in my past and have an album collection of 40 years. I just sold my Hanss T-60 tt and everything associated with it except for my albums, which I’m selling now. Just because you buy an album doesn’t mean it will sound good. Some of the best music and most of the worst sounding music comes from analog from a tt. It boils down to recordings. During the past several years in the form of hires/SACD/DSD/MQA, I prefer digital the majority of the time. Also, the latest dacs are far superior to dacs of just a few years ago. A lot of vinyl people state they prefer vinyl to digital because they can look at the album liner notes while listening. Have any of these people looked at or used Roon? Probably not. Roon gives you much more info and at the same time gives me current updates on the artist and current tour stops. The old digital used to be very harsh and it still is if not played on decent equipment. Digital will always be more quiet and have more dynamic range over albums. The biggest vinyl drawbacks for me were: Most albums are from the past, most of the newer (last 20 years) jazz and rock artists I listen to don’t produce vinyl, albums are noisy over time, it costs substantially more to get great sound out of vinyl, and the hassle of the maintenance. The best sound I have heard from vinyl have come from good quality mono pressings, much better sounding than their stereo pressings
“I hate CDs. They are a crappy collectible with crappy cases that crack when you sneeze. Little paper folders you can’t read that tear when you try to get them out”
@mijostyn,
I am going to keep it short n sweet since this thread isn’t about CD’s. It seems you haven’t seen or heard the XRCD24’s. They are not cheap but worth every penny in terms of sound quality, which is stunning in every aspect.
@toicat, I too had the paper route and cut grass to fuel my passions, of which I had a few. Looked at that Pioneer 737 but wound up with the Sony STR7045 which was very close in power @ 30 watts and was $30.00 cheaper but loved the life I lived. @skyscraper, thanks for the laff, now get off my grass. Enjoy the music
Mike Are you serious on the compressed files streaming? Sure if you stick to iTunes or Spotify that is what you will find. But no serious listener stops there Tidal, Deezer or Qobuz ALL have hirez streaming 24/96 and 24/192 with Qobuz being the best of the bunch so far imho. You have to pay to play of course $ 20 to $24 a month depending on plan but then unlimited access to millions of albums. I have already said my piece on analog playback but streaming is NOT to be dismissed so lightly today I am afraid.
Skyscraper is right about streaming although I think there are now a couple of sources that stream high res files the vast majority of it is compressed files which to every audiophile's ears sound crappy. But, if you download high res files to a hard drive it is a much different story. There are times where the computer sounds better than the vinyl particularly with digital recordings. You should hear a high res copy of the Trinity Sessions. I hate CDs. They are a crappy collectible with crappy cases that crack when you sneeze. Little paper folders you can't read that tear when you try to get them out. Records are a much different situation. The Record cover is a canvass for great art work. Just ask Neon Park (Weezles Rip My Flesh, Little Feat.) They feel great in your hand and you can read them easily. I think they look great neatly stored. Yes the price is high but in most cases the quality is much better than what we use to get (just stay away from Rhino records, terrible. Even the 180 gm ones.) I tend to buy analog recordings on vinyl, anything recorded before 1980 on standard labels. Then there is the cartridge rolling:)
My love for this pass time is that you are free and afforded many levels of involvement in music reproduction.Pick how you wish to fly! I love yinyl myself and I loce digital as well.I get as involved as I please.
I love physical media. But with the music I listen to I prefer vinyl. Having had cd’s and cassette in the past, they always seemed to me to be the “convenient” alternative to vinyl though both can sound great.
Plus the music I love Pretty never gets the 24/192 treatment which is fine as a lot of it is fringe music and things that scare the straights.
I love the warmth, spatial quality and ‘syrupy contours’ that come with vinyl. I also love the quiet, clean, predictable, ease-of-playback that digital provides.
Wanting the best of both worlds I decided to give reel-to-reel tape a try. Wow!
Sibilance issues of vinyl and the harshness of digital have abated. Tape is not as romantic sounding as vinyl nor is it as noise free as digital. But it just has this natural contrast and open space to it, like a clear transmission of what was recorded—on tape—without conversion to another medium (cd or vinyl). The tape medium is the perfect size, just about book sized and if you are carful it’s way less fragile and finicky than vinyl and not as cold and detached as playing a digital disc.
Vinyl is fun but too much to worry about in setting up your table, cleaning everything all the time, worrying about static and being super careful handling the records themself, hurts those of us with OCD. Too much to worry about to know you are getting the best experience possible.
Plus with tape you pretty much have to listen to at least a whole side each time you put one on. It’s just good for the tape and good for your soul!
A number of you have hit the nail on the head. Boxer has it right about the current prices of records. Twenty+ dollars for a piece of pressed plastic is ridiculous. That’s the prices you see around here in Virginia. I love records since I grew up with them, have well over a thousand, and loved rummaging through the record bins at record stores. The snap ,crackle, and pops they all have are a pain though, even on meticulously cared for LP’s.
Maybe many LP’s sound better or a little different than CD’s which I also love because they play longer and have no pops and crackles. They are less expensive usually too. A lot of them sound really good. I mostly buy them now like tooblue
As for streaming, I can’t relate to using computer technology for playing music. For me that’s for young punks only, whom I’d like to slap around sometime when they talk about it. Especially when I’d like to talk about "real" stereo equipment or records instead.. And especially more so when I went all the way to Washington DC to audition speakers and was told by a dealer they only had streaming sources for playback. That would have been just the occasion.
Truthfully, streaming sources could easily be really good, but I don’t want to adjust to them. Who says you have to be mature or sensible about what you like. I do like low fidelity YouTube videos of great rockers and jazz musicians played on cheapo computer speakers, but I feel that doesn’t count as streaming for some non-sensible reason.
It reminds me of great times in my life in the 1970’s when I delivered newspapers & mowed lawns to earn money to feed my music passion. I had a Pioneer PL-10 turntable & a Pioneer SX 737 receiver. I played The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Uriah Heep, Mountain, Elvis, and everything Motown that was available in our local record store. Good days indeed.
I still listen to records because it is a tinkerer's dream as tooblue suggests. There is some psychological thrill in getting it just right. Vinyl has a warm euphoric quality missing from digital. Digital is more accurate but in many instances vinyl just sounds better. When you get that almost perfect pressing there is that sense of wonder and awe that such a crude method can sound so good. And lastly I have god knows how many records which I can't and don't want to abandon. I rely on two sources the turntable and a 6TB hard drive and probably listen to both on an equal basis. I do not use headphones. I have a set which are dead flat and I use them to reorient my ears to make sure my room control system has got things right.
Jeez Miller. Don't you wish you had chosen the OTHER pill.
And to the OP, thank you for the mention and kind words in your initial OP.
Even though in my world analog rules the day I just have so much of every type of media to play records only. Probably 2500 CD, 50 BluRay and DVD audio, 40 SACD, 150 R2R, 1000 cassette and about 1200 records. Then there is streaming too.
In my system records probably give me the most organic and dynamic playback although r2r and cassette are both snapping at its heels.
I can't say as I love or hate any media ( well as long as we do not mention 8 track of course!). But they are so different and individual as to cherish them all in my system.
And sure some days, like tonight I just cannot be bothered to get up and flip records so it's cassette now likely followed by Qobuz streaming. Tomorrow might be a vinyl all day job.
Referring to LP's as vinyl plays right into the argument that their current popularity is a fad. Come on, man, vinyl is what your great-grandmother had on her sofa, your great-grandfather on his car's bench seats.
@has2be , @astewart8944, great points, all of them. In my particular situation I am using 800 albums purchased by me thru the 60s,70s & 80s and I have been able to quench my cravings for new music with purchasing only new albums to which I have added another 1,000 albums after culling, so the shape of my collection is as close to pristine as humanely possible. Tried the used market and got very discouraged quickly abandoning it for CDs instead.
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