11-06-15: Jmcgrogan2That aint no Hank Williams song!
It's my fault I suppose. I just can't stand country music, and that's about all she wants to listen to anymore. Sigh.
why do people feel the need to buy expensive cable
I have tried expensive cables and one's moderately priced. I would say there were some differences but I can't actually say the expensive cables were better. IMHO I believe a lot of people buy expensive cables because they don't actual trust their ears and are afraid of making a mistake. They figure the expensive cables are better for the fact they cost more. If you have a difference of opinion or share the same thoughts, I would like to hear about it.
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Every man should have a good hobby. Audio is ours. Some people drink drug chase women and gamble. We have our audio and most of our wives understand and give us our needed space. They shop we listen to audio. Anyway. Way off subject. Once you get to a certain point you got to have good cables and they are going to cost a little extra money. Lol. |
@Taters, Audio shows are always sausage fests. It's fair to say there would be a higher than average percentage of single guys <40y.o attending, but I think the older crowd mostly have a happy spouse at home busy catching up with friends or a good book. @Onhwy61, It sure can. A wise person once told me "you'll get there one day". But for the time being atleast, after work this nerdy hobby is the main game. |
Lol Calvin, yes no question it is possible to put together a musical sounding system (incl: wire) on a relatively modest budget if you do your homework & choose your gear wisely. Going 2nd hand or getting a good deal through an Audio dealer obviously helps as well. I should clarify, my above comments were only directed at two or three shills/rear end tow ropes who repeatedly subject forum members to obvious shilling. I don't need to name names as it's pretty obvious who they are. I'm sorry if any other members took though my comments were directed at them. And yes, give the fact i'd rather be single and buy more audio gear suggests i'm a bit nuts! |
People feel the need because to them it makes the system sound better. I think if you hear a difference and it's worth it to you then you do it. Cables and equipment are always going to be priced high because the demand in the market is there. I once was in a room where there was half a million plus dollars worth of equipment and cabling and the owner flat out enjoyed it. Did his system sound better than anything I heard? Yes! Would I spend that amount in audio equipment and cabling? No! However, I would never criticize someone else for doing it. Yeah you can get by with cheaper cabling and equipment and enjoy it. However, the sound of the equipment and cabling in that room I heard that day was flat out amazing. It's still in my head two years later. Enjoy your cables! 1.00 or $10,000. If it's worth it to you! If others have something to say about it. Cut your system on and drown out the noise. Don't talk just listen.lol. Audio is a need! We all are nuts! |
11-02-15: RunninNo, I tell it how it really is. I give honest advice whether it's fashionable or not. And I call out shills and hypocrites. And for that, I have been banned on several forums, attacked and accused by people like you of being a troll & isolated. But there is a silent minority of people who respect me for not being a puppet, sheep or phonie who are too scared to publically show any support. They're the ones I have time for. |
"I actually don't think that's true. I am pretty sure most speaker manufacturers state the MINIMUM power required. They also frequently state the MAXIMUM POWER Handling capability. It's also why speaker manufactures usually state sensitivity, you know, to indicate relative power required. Geoffkait (Threads | Answers | This Thread)" I have to agree. Although I can understand Mapman's comments. I just think its the other way around. If you look at how amp company's rate their products, its almost criminal. Not all of them, but the closer you get to mass market, the more bogus the ratings. I think that leaves speaker manufacturers in a bad place because there's no standard. The average person would think a 200 watt Bryston amp is a rip off because they can buy a Sony receiver in BB for less than the sales tax on the Bryston. |
In regards to some of the above discussion, cables can't add something to the sound or signal since they are passive. I've always thought that the best ones do no harm so you can hear everything if your system is up to snuff. Or do I have it wrong? And, Melbguy, you insult people and then expect an audience when you post? |
Geoff my point is that vendor specs are usually specified loosely because if used teh results will often at least satisy most people. That's different than specifying what is needed for best performance in order to satisfy audiophiles. Maybe some high end companies do, but most vendors overall do not If they do, they limit their market to a select few and must price higher accordingly in order to make enough profit off of fewer units sold. Just saying that proper application of specifications will likely lead to decent but not optimal results. |
Mapman wrote, "No manufacturer will knowingly publish something that might limit sales. That's why most speaker makers understate what power is needed for best performance. It would scare off potential customers in many cases if they told them how much power was needed for optimal performance." I actually don't think that's true. I am pretty sure most speaker manufacturers state the MINIMUM power required. They also frequently state the MAXIMUM POWER Handling capability. It's also why speaker manufactures usually state sensitivity, you know, to indicate relative power required. |
Once you acknowledge that cables can affect the perception of recorded sound, one has to decide what a significant difference is worth. To my ears, in my system, cables that have improved the quality of reproduced sound to the degree audiophiles associate with upgrading active components and speakers, to me, just like having high quality components and speakers, alot of money is not considered an unusual investment for cable's that achieve this. |
I said I was going to take no further part in this thread, but spurious claims by the usual suspects forced my hand. I have the following observations on this subject; I avoid cable manufacturers who make outlandish claims about heretofore unknown space age technology, who then proceed to publish copious amounts of technical and semi-technical information on their website for sponsored shills and hangers on to then endlessly copy and paste on this site. Secondly, it occurs to me if you were genuinely content with the quality and sound of your cables you would not need to repeatedly post about the qualities and performance of your cables, unless you a/ felt the need to justify their high cost by continuously brow-beating other members, b/ were not actually content with how they sound & were simply trying to mask buyer's remorse by convincing others how good they are, c/ were jealous of other members who own cables you knew sound better & probably cost less than your cables, or /d were actively shilling for a manufacturer (whether directly employed by the manufacturer or doing so of your own accord in the hope of special deals or on their products or public recognition in return). I'm guilty as charged for rabitting on endlessly about my Magico S5's, and I worked out why. They are very good speakers, that's true. But I wasn't content with where I was impatient to move up the Magico line to the S7's. The problem was I was ruined back in 1991 when I got to hear a pair of Infinity IRS-V's in a treated listening room which simply blew me away. The IRS-V's have been my reference ever since, and the benchmark by which I judge all other loudspeakers. So I can own up on that, but I have no such anxiety about my Jorma Prime and Statement cables. They are keepers and I will never sell them. |
Yeah,I believe 91 and less sensitivity is lousy!, for what we pay for speaker's these days, you would think they would fix this problem that has never been addressed, to me, it's a lousy designer to have 87 sensitivity to get 24htz!, on the flip side of it, an incredible designer to get 24htz and have 96 or higher sensitivity. |
"Most manufacturers do give some general info on how to get the best from the speakers, in the owners manual and/or online. Another option is to call them directly. If you tell them about your system and taste, you usually get much more info out of them" I find the power requirement specs a joke . Magnepan for example states something like 100 - 200 watts for their speakers . Not much info there . same goes for all speaker specs i have read for speakers bought in the past . Lets use the sports car analogy once again . You buy a supercar but they leave a crucial aspect for performance up to you to decide . Unless you are a car designer you are not going to want to make that choice on your own . |
Who likes going around the merry go round over and over , Start to feel dizzy after a while . How many of you like to feel you may not be using the right (best) cable ? No interest in buying fifteen different cables to simply find the one that has the proper design to fit a particular piece of gear . |
"True That . So the designer of amps and speakers should have the knowledge of what is needed to make there designs perform optimally . Why not tell the consumer ? " They can't be too specific because its impossible listen to everything in all possible combinations. Also factor in personal taste. Most manufacturers do give some general info on how to get the best from the speakers, in the owners manual and/or online. Another option is to call them directly. If you tell them about your system and taste, you usually get much more info out of them. |
Ohm's Law suggests that if you desire more current to the speakers all you actually need do is reduce the length of the speaker cables. While this may or may not solve you particular concern regarding woofer excursion, I tend toward suspecting that increasing the current by itself will solve the other issues involved not related to woofer excursion. Such as grain in the treble, soundstage depth, resolution, tonality, frequency response, dynamics and inner dynamics, warmth and sweetness, to name a few. |
The reason people often state that expensive cables will not make budget speakers sound better is because the budget speakers drivers are limited in their excursion . The more money one spends on speakers generally the larger the drivers will be in the statement speakers . (harder to drive to their full potential ). Thus cables that can send the proper amount of current is more important for those speakers . Hence being able to hear large differences in cables in those systems. |
Bravo! , we'll said Mike, I've done experiment's with taralabs cable's since the introduction of earlier ground station's of the mid 1990s, you can pm me and I share a few with you, also, at one time, I had the Taralabs, the one with two mono blocks grounding station and one stereo grounding station, all on the same interconnect! , talking about low noise floor that was not supposed to be heard on this model interconnect. |
earlier in the thread I had some comments about my recent experience with 'crazy expensive' Tara Labs Grandmaster Evolution 1.5m XLR cables. one thing I mentioned was that they 'got out of the way of the music'. Devilboy writes; One thing they DO NOT do (and this one's my favorite), is "Get out of the way of the music". That phrase drives me mad. In fact, I believe they are doing the complete opposite. I have to strongly disagree. no doubt some cables add coloration to the music with what else they do to transfer the signal. but some cables do actually further remove distortion from the signal path. and you can hear that. these very expensive particular Tara Labs Grandmaster interconnects apply some exotic technology to the equation. some of the technology could be marketing speak, some of the technology is less likely marketing speak, and some of it is easily verifiable by the user. cable geometry and metallurgy benefits pretty much is something none of us are in a position to actually verify. even assuming we believe our ears unless we go through the process of listening to various versions we are just guessing about cause and effect. so we must just accept the manufacturer's claims on those issues. looking at the quality of the actual plugs it is easy to see where the cable manufacturer went to a much higher degree of effort and expense compared to other cables. we can see this. does that actually affect the improved performance? we don't know; but our experience with plugs and outlets with power cables does indicate that these things matter. then there is the vacuum dielectric and air tube technology. we know this matters with cables. how much does it matter? we have no way of knowing really unless you would have one cable with it and one without. then we get to the HRX dual monoblock floating ground station. the cables are grounded. here we don't need to take anything on faith. we can simply plug or unplug the grounding cable and listen. now we easily hear the part where the noise floor drops dramatically and the music is revealed in much greater detail. it gets much more out of the way of the music. there are no trade-offs. crazy good. I wish for my finances it did not make such a profound difference. you can sit there and plug and unplug and hear what is happening. it then becomes a question of whether that difference is worth it or not. no question it's not hype. it's simply life priorities. I happen to have a 'borrowed' similar Tara Labs '2' steps down (Tara Labs Zero Gold) also on hand for comparison. this has an earlier version of the vacuum dielectric and grounding system. I also had the opportunity to try the Zero Evolution (the next step up above the Zero Gold) grounding box with the Grandmaster version. so I've been able to appreciate the steps up and what is doing what. in the context of your system is it worth it? happy to have anyone visit and they can plug and unplug that grounding box for themselves and listen. |
MGM wrote, "The only item in ones system that has a sound signature is ones speakers . The cables used are going to determine how the drivers move . Find the cable that moves the drivers to the speakers full potential and then you have "The best cable for your system" Same goes with amplifiers." Or put another way, the only thing in one's system WITHOUT a sound signature is the speakers, which output precisely the accumulated sound of the various components of the system, including the cables. ;-) |
Certain cables give you the "perceived illusion" of an expansive soundstage with tremendous depth, more "air" around the voices and instruments, and this is true. I believe this is due to cable geometry more so than exotic copper or silver. One thing they DO NOT do (and this one's my favorite), is "Gerry out of the way of the music". That phrase drives me mad. In fact, I believe they are doing the complete opposite.They are getting in between the crap wire inside your amplifier going to its binding posts, and the crap wire in your speaker going from its binding post to the drivers. Adding expensive speaker cables does not miraculously unlock hidden detail and a vast, expansive soundstage that's just waiting to get out of your amplifier. That's nonsense. If that were the case, then your amplifier would be wired with the same expensive cables. Expensive cables IMO are adding a certain signature of their own based on cable geometry and materials used to give you the perceived illusion of the soundstage you're listening to. |
No, the word expensive is relative to the highest cost of cables which is what $10-20K. It also depends on the person, what HE thinks is expensive for him. AND the word expensive reflects how much importance the person places on cables relative to the rest of the system. For example, just read the threads on High Fidelity Cables or Tara Labs Cables, you will find those folks who place extreme importance to cables. Fir them it's a paradigm shift, where most of the money on the system in some cases, I happen to know one case, is spent on cables. Thus cables become the overriding concern and cost. I myself eschew cables and have almost none in my system. You could say I went the other way. Ha ha ha |
