Why do no audio enthusiasts use McIntosh?

Yes Onemug, I do recall through your postings of your general setup. You gave me confidence that I may attain success with my plans, as well.
Tho, I will have to wait until I move from my SMALL apartment to realize those.
Keep on enjoying :)

"honestly never had the pleasure to listen to McIntosh. I would like to. Mc2301 @ 300 watts! I am currently listening to a pair of mono's @ 3 watts total."

Often times the virtue is listening to the music of the forest and not paying so much individual attention to the trees. Seems you've found that place Isochronism, Cheers!

The so-called audio enthusiasts or audiophiles are those engineer want-to-be. They listen to systems that they piece together and not the music. Mcintosh sold a lot more high end equipment than any other manufacturer in the world for 60 years (Please correct me if I am wrong).
You also stated " the only people who like it, are those who sell it... an uncanny coincidence?"
People who love the sound of Mc, don't have to brag about their McIntosh system or the sound of their Ferrari. They know what they want to hear and just enjoying it.

In general it does seem many systems using mcintosh are all or nothing as in all mcintosh made components. I have heard them and they sound good.

Hey I just saw that show "Elementary" and Sherlock Holmes even has an all Mcintosh system even the turntable!

Audioquest4life, how does your Octave Jubilee preamp and McIntosh 2301 combo sound compared to the Jubilee preamp and Jubilee mono's combo that you heard in Germany?

Thanks!

The simple answer to this post, if there is one, is that McIntosh equipment is a good hedge against inflation. Check out the Audiogon listings and count how many McIntosh pieces are selling at, near, or even more than new. The bonus is that for the many decades that you use it, it sounds really good. I am referring to their amps and preamps, as I feel that their digital players leave something to be desired in the area of reliability. Also, the blue meters really are a nice touch! Sorry, Mac haters, but that's just my opinion.

Macs were great back in the old days of the 275 and such. But then they started puting output transformers on transistor amps, crazy, and lost many (and me) who thought they knew what they were doing.
Maybe the number cruchers moved in when this happened and thought they could get the best of both worlds tube sound and SS sales, little did they know. They lost the hard core and hung onto those who don't know better and just love the looks of the stuff.

Must admit it does look pretty.

http://freshairphoto.com/portfolio/wp-content/uploads/soundroom.jpg

Cheers George

I bought a McIntosh MC275 MK6 and it was awesome. I thought there won't be too much of a good thing and bought a McIntosh MC2500 tube preamplifier and it sucked. The phono stage is horrible. The line stage is OK. Midrange is weak. The built-in headphones amplifier is great! But it's a very expensive headphone amp, so I got rid of it. Waiting for an Audio Research reference tube pre. We'll see. Everyone's happy with their Audio Research tube gear. But I'm keeping the MC275 with a plan to upgrade to Genalex tubes though. If that doesn't help, the MC275 is a goner.

I wonder why Mac equipment has to endure this type of question year after year. This thread is 13 years old and so for at least 13 years the question has been out there "Why do no audio enthusiasts use Mcintosh". Look at how the OP even asked the question to start the thread. The question itself assumes as a fact or as a truth that no "real audiophiles" would even consider Mac equip. New users and even experienced users who have never heard Mac gear, after reading this type of question (it's hardly been the first time this sort of question has been asked on these boards) year after year, assume that it is a true statement and start to have a bias against the gear and yet they have never even heard it in a properly set up room. I have been in this hobby for almost 40 years now and have seen the latest and greatest of the moment be the equipment you can't even give away some years later.

I own Mac amps (MC501, MC252, MC202) that I use in one of my systems along with a Mac preamp (C2200). It is just simply musical to me. In another system I have a MasterSound Reference 845 amp, which I love, but also which is as different to Mac gear as anything else. Is one better than the other? No, not necessarily. They both sound great to me in their respective setups. Over these years I have owned Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, Mark Levinson, Classe, Sonic Frontiers and a lot of others I don't recall right now. Each has had their own perceived strengths and weaknesses. But none of these other manufacturers has had to continually answer the question, year after year, whether they are "audiophile enough" to be respected.

This enthusiast uses Mc gear and loves it.

Check out AudioAficinado.org. Plenty of Mac fanboys there!

But the guys on Audio Afcionardo can be snobby at times.

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The original post was just stupid to begin with. How could anyone assume to know that no audio enthusiasts like??

McIntosh has gotten along rather nicely as a business over the years....critics be damned.
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"But the guys on Audio Afcionardo can be snobby at times."

So true. When you own $1M audio systems, 3 homes in different parts of the country, a Ferrari, Porsche's, Rolex's, and drink only $350 Scotch, you tend to get a little snobby. It's $25/year to be a member, $100+ to have a higher status membership, and very easy to get banned.

Because it looks cool does not sound cool though!!

I cannot a agree more with Ebm's comment. I had owned the vintage MC30 monos, MC225, MC240, MC250, MC275, MA230, MC2105, and the modern MC2275. I kept getting suckered to buy McIntosh because of the look and 'pride of ownership'.

But my ears keep telling my head: Dump that thing now! Can't listen to music with that whisper in my head. The Mcs usually last no more than 2 months in my room.

If this is true then Mcintosh wouldn't be in business. Their MSRP obviously only get support from audio enthusiasts. Just like a gun enthusiast that is willing to pay for 5k custom race gun. Non enthusias will be happy with a $400 Taurus revolver.

Slmn3r, I worked at a large Mac dealer in Chicago.
Most of the sales were to doctors who really cared little about music and a lot about status symbols.

I am an audio enthusiast and use Mcintosh...I am not sure what percentage of audiophiles statistically speaking falls into the "don't like camp"; however, there are a substantial amount of people, including myself, that just happen to like the sound. Having gone through Mark Levinson, Krell, Bryston, and Octave, the current MC2301's amps are a keeper.

All I can say is that other people's opinions, impressions, or thoughts are not detractors to my own listening pleasure. I research, listen, and carefully tune all of my rooms to allow for optimal listening, no matter what the equipment. I guess I am not as fussy as other people and would rather listen to music instead of lambast other people's equipment.

I keep coming back to this thread like getting stuck on a bad movie. I have been a longtime content owner of 501 monoblocks.

It is peculiar that some of the most vocal do not bother posting their systems on here for those who could learn more about their journey, matching components, cables, etc...especially us Mcintosh non enthusiast audio lovers.

Pictures tell a story, when you depend on prose, especially in an anonymous public forum it can be challenging weeding through the BS.

Bsimpson, you're talking about equipment that is at, or near 50 years old.

What would anybody expect from such? Who was around back then to compare, Levinson, Krell, ARC, Pass Labs, Accuphase, Burmester, etc etc.

It's like you are saying, I onwed a 40 year old Sansui 7 Reciever, and was not impressed with it driving my Wilson Grand Slamms.

Lot's of snobbsh "esoteric" BS being pedalled around here for over 12 straight years.

Go audition an MC-452, or a pair of MC-601's, MC-2301's then tell us what you think?

Twb2, I wonder where that guy gets his money. I doubt he made that kind of money selling audio gear. And yes, they will ban you in a New York minute.

Because they know better.

They are too busy enjoying their music and how cool their stuff looks. 👀

Not to say there aren't a lot of people who by McIntosh equipment for the blue meters/snob appeal. There are .But there are many who love the sound of the music played through McIntosh equipment. I have a pair of MC 60s. The tone and organic quality of the music I listen to is the reason I like the MC 60s. 
I think the reason many hold on to their vintage McIntosh is they don't get tired of listening to it. What's wrong with that? 

Listening? Come on man...No…it's the blue meters. If more amps had blue meters the world would be a better place.

On third set of amp(s) and preamp combo in 19 years. Only once anything needed service and it was done quickly.  In 25 years there will be a network and the parts needed for service.   Love em or hate em, the newer gen amps and preamps are neutral enough if that if it's not exactly your flavor it can be changed with ancillary components and cabling. 

For many years I had one NAD setup after another, eventually their "Masters Series" components, really enjoyed their sound.  Many years ago I worked at some high end dealers who sold McIntosh, but never "lusted" over the equipment.

About a year ago I decided to see if I could find some speakers I liked better than the monitors I was using and as I auditioned one pair after another I was struck by how easy it was to listen to speakers powered by the McIntosh C50 pre-amp and MC452 power amp.  To me they just didn't seem to have their "own sound", and had not a trace of edginess (which was a good thing, having finally selected a pair of speakers with quite "capable" tweeters).

I know that, in some circles, McIntosh is a dirty word.  The great thing about our hobby is how there are so many products to enjoy.  I just happen to enjoy my solid state equipment from Binghamton.

Swl love Macs and it has nothing to do with the blue meters.

Damn seeing this made me realize how much I miss Tireguy :( Tim was/is a super cool dude.

I guess my screen name says what I'm peeved about kind of. Anyway, this has got to be old hat but I'm so bloody tired of this. What? This. When someone has to knock the crap out of equipment that I love. Now, I don't know what $35,000 speakers sound like. I would hope pretty nice. But in my lowly middle class existence a couple grand is a lot of money for a set of speakers. What speakers? Bose 901s. Yep, I said it. I will admit, I haven't heard a lot of high end speakers. I am however a fairly mechanical kind of guy with an extensive musical background and I know a couple of things. 

One is the fact of the stereo speaker "Sweet Spot". Unless you're going omni directional, or partially so, you're looking at being anchored to the said sweet spot. I don't like to just sit down and not move when music is playing. Sometimes, just not always. Imagine this. I actually like to dance around when the music inspires me.
So, hello Bose 901s. Yes I will say they have their limitations, but for room filling STEREO sound and completely ass kicking bass, they're hard to beat for the money.

I'm really not here to try and convince anyone on 901s. What I would like to do is the following. I want to say hey folks, if you think certain gear is garbage, don't buy it. You don't have to knock it every chance you get. Especially when the subject is not even remotely connected to Bose products. What the hell. I mean, who the hell are you to tell me that what I think sounds good is garbage? What if I told you your wife was really ugly? How would that go over? Not exactly the same thing but it's in the ball park. Beauty, as in the beauty of music, is in the ear or eye of the beholder.

I came to this site because I'm considering a Mcintosh amplifier. I'm after at least 250 watts a side for my own reasons. I want to know why they are worth so much money even used. What do I come across in the third or fourth post. "Bose are junk". Thanks buddy, and so that I can be almost as indirect as you were regarding Bose gear on a McIntosh post, your wife IS ugly. There I said it, and I'll feel better for about a second and a half for doing so.

I just hooked up a set of Bose 901s to a new Denon AVR with a separate amp for the 901s. 901s are really quite wonderful for home theatre. You can go completely sub woofer free and not sacrifice one single bit of bass. In fact, I have routinely scared folks off the couch when using 901s as front mains in a home theatre without a sub during an explosion scene.

I used them because I'm waiting for a driver tweak to come in from Ohm Walsh. Yeah I know, not expensive or elite enough either. I think they're fantastic though.
Anyway, back to McIntosh. What a surprise. I would like to see if a local dealer would allow a test try at home with a "demo" amp. I don't know how else to find out really. It's a lot of money. I'd rather buy new really, but is it worth it?

I saw a post recently wherein a guy was asking the same questions about McIntosh I am. The guy said what kind of speakers he had and wanted to know if folks thought McIntosh would be a good idea. Well, one poster said, "If you were using B&W diamond series speakers, I'd say get the McIntosh, otherwise stick with your Japanese amp." Well I looked up B&W top of the line speakers. At least at the top within the web page I cam across. I didn't find "Diamond Series". Either way, the speakers at the top of their page were $35,000. So if I'm reading everything correctly, what this poster was saying is that unless you're driving $35,000 speakers a McIntosh is just a waste of money. At least that's how I took it.

I must say it was rather off putting. Is it really impossible to expect VERY nice speakers for around five-thousand a pair? Wow! If so, I guess I'm destined for bargain basement OhmWalsh. And since I'm going off topic throughout MOST of this post, I'll say that the Ohm Walsh towers I bought not only supply an amazing presence that will fill your room with wonderful stereo sound, but they are also accurate and clear. Not the least bit muddy, and also have quite a bass kick. They are the first speakers I've owned that allowed me to listen loudly without any fatigue in the least. And personally, now here is my "Beauty in the ear of the listener" moment, I don't know how anyone can pay huge dollars for stereo speakers that don't sound good unless you're sitting directly in the center of the two. In fact, one poster I read quipped,"make sure you listen to these without any friends along, and if you do bring friends in, make sure they are also not too tall."

Really? Ten thousand dollars and they're no good if you move? O.K. Obviously I'm feeling kind of putt off that my trusty old 901s have been bashed yet again. And I've spent 95 percent of my post NOT talking about McIntosh.

I'm not looking to see if folks think McIntosh is "Better" than other amps. I'm looking to find out if there really is a difference between McIntosh and other potentially expensive, or not so expensive amps. I've seen several posts lately that would tell you you're fine even with "Pro" amps. Big power for not so big money is what they say. So far the only drawback I've seen is fan noise. Fan noise was so inconsequential with my old pro amp that's not an issue. I guess I was always of the belief that the better the amp, the more accurate the sound. Now I'm getting the idea that amps all color the sound by a good degree. I'm so confused.

Mcintosh started in 1949. It is one of the most successful high end brands. It is the Rolex of high end audio - respected for aesthetics, functionality and reliability. Like Rolex - built like a tank and being highly desirable holds value better than any other brand. Mcintosh is not the last word in resolution but perhaps the most respected high end musical (enjoyable) electronics you can buy.

Mcintosh even use output transformers on their SS amps - this is for crafting the sound. The sound crafted by Mcintosh is not the last word in transparency but a lush sound that many experts swear by.

The B&W Diamond is known to be revealing, so that may be why someone might recommend using the softer Mac with the B&W.  I always enjoyed the Mac gear, but only had the mc275 for a while, and although I liked it I found something I enjoyed a little more in that set up.

BTW, there is a fair amount of Ohm Walsh fans here. Look up their thread and I bet they would love to talk Ohm Walsh, and may be able to help with an amp.

PS.  I better stick with my sweet spot speakers as nobody needs to see me dance. :}

" I must say it was rather off putting. Is it really impossible to expect VERY nice speakers for around five-thousand a pair? Wow!..."

B&W 805 Diamond-3 speakers list for $6K. I had 805D2s for a while. Very detailed, but the tweeters are also very fragile and expensive to replace. I sold the 805s very shortly after I started dating a woman who had a cat, and replaced them with a pair of "feline friendly" Pioneer SP-BS22-LRs. :-)

Many audiophiles jump on mac as its way cool!!

Every body’s amp is the best in the world. A Mark Levinson amp owner will claim that this amp is the best sounding amp in the world, same for an Audio Research amp owner, Bryston’s amp owner, Krell’s amp owner, Ayre’s Amp owner, CJ’s amp owner, McIntosh’s amp owner, Pass Labs’ amp owner, Classe, Rotel, PS Audio, etc. at the end of the day all do the same if they have good specs and good electronics.

@kosst_amojan


Adding autotransfomers to SS amps sounds “crazy” as George Hifi points out.

Mcintosh made a strategic choice there to craft the sound of their SS amps to be more tube like. Purists hate this but some may like the sound with the added convenience of SS.

Frankly a tube Mcintosh is up there with other great tube amps. Whether you like the sound probably has as much to do with component matching as it does to the individual tubes selected. Most folks would agree that the first thing to do is to replace the Mcintosh stock JJ or Chinese tubes. Perhaps this is a major drawback to what are relatively expensive amplifiers. Or perhaps Mcintosh know or expect that purists will replace tubes anyway and therefore they voice the amp with cheap tubes that are warm and not so transparent. Perhaps they voice their gear for a jazz trio or quartet - the typical casual well heeled audiophile test CD - you know the type of folks who think a really large collection is over 50 albums. Whatever Mcintosh does - it has worked for over 60 years....perhaps their biggest mistake was stopping tube amp production for a while.....

I have been a Mac user for nearly 50 years.

Two things that I do not like about McIntosh, one is the excessive weight of their power amps thanks to autoformers, as I am getting older it is a massive effort to lift these little monsters, and the other is excessive numbers of control knobs on their preamps, I never use tone controls and over time due to non use they become problematic and introduce noise in the system.

Other than that I am staying with Mac.

There are way too many prejudices in High End Audio... i.e. 'Mine is great, yours isn't'... Ignore anyone who says Mac isn't good gear. I had the great fortune to go to the Mac Factory in New York and build a piece. All hand crafted beautifully with care and devotion. It sounds good and looks even better. It is NOT my favorite, but who cares. If I could own anything it would be VAC or Gryphon. But then they cost multiples.
Also, get ten people to agree on the best speaker at any price. Impossible.
So, continue to love whichever product you want.... other than price, it's always your choice.
Best,
Larry

Everyone (well, maybe not everyone, but for the purposes of this comment) had an uncle or dad or somebody in their life who was the old dude with the McIntosh gear who listened to live opera or jazz and nobody else cared about it much. I don't own any McIntosh gear but I use a tube preamp and amp and listen to too much jazz and nobody else around me cares much…I'm now that old dude. 

Words of wisdom and just getting to the crux of the matter Larsky and Wolf. It is always striking to me how pedantic these topics can evolve into. Enjoy the music!

+1 Larry  Essential advice....

So, continue to love whichever product you want.

"Why do no audio enthusiasts use McIntosh?"

Not true!

Over on the Audio AudioAficionado Forum
(https://www.audioaficionado.org) you will find many Mac enthusiats who have very fine systems which also often include some of the very best gear from other respected brands. 

i worked in a world class studio with a lead tech who built princes paisley park studios and the studio owner is a very well respected engineer who now has his own line of high end speakers now, he also designed the main speakers, guess what powered them? McIntosh!!! 
 so some of your music you listen to through your classe or levinson amps was mixed listening through Mc's

This thread is a joke. First tireguy asks this bone head question why no audio enthusiasts use McIntosh?where does this question come from, How does he know no audio enthusiasts use Mac, has he scaled the world over and been in every Audiophiles listening room? As for all the negative responses trying to give their two cent worth of why this is I just LOL out loud.
I have owned a few Mac amps in the past,don’t own any at this time,but their last few generations are some of the best amps I’ve heard. 

I'm taking this thread into 2019! I currently own a Mac 6700 receiver and a MT 5 turntable and I've been happy with both of them. I personally like being able to dial in the trebble and bass from the remote when listening to old records. Most higher end amps don't offer this feature. When I had a problem with one of the meters sticking, Mac took care of it under warranty. It's near impossible today to audition any high end gear in your home from boutique companies. I'm confident and happy in my purchae of Mac gear. There is a definate a pride in oenership. 

I have a restored pair of MC40 monoblocks from around 1962, makes them about 57 years old. Picked them up and restored them fairly cheaply. I can't really afford Mac gear. I use a 36 year old ARC SP8 as a preamp and a set of old Altec horn speakers that I modded.
I've swapped other amps in and out of the system but the Mac's always come back, listening to them as I type. No matter what I have tried I always come back to the MC40's. They are that good.
BillWojo