the poster awhile back who made the headphones comment was onto something... you cant take a multi thousand $$$$$ system with you.
and headphone sound "good enough" for the $$ spent
younger people these days pretty much want EVERYTHING PORTABLE and that will play, watch, and fit in THEiR "phone" and the car that their mommy drives them around in.
honestly, they really are pretty much entitled spoiled brats. That is what modern politically correct society has let them become
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I think there is more audiophiles than ever. Just not how we traditionally think of them. Most of the newer generations are starting out with headphones. Then they start moving up from there. You can get world class sound from headphones that sell for $1000. And a lot of people, even young people are buying them. You get better sound from them than any of us probably got from any of our systems after 20 years of us trying when we first started. If you follow their posts on headfi or computer audiophile and places like that you’ll see they are actually very deep and technical about it. Far more than people on here actually. Impressively so with some of them. They take it very very serious. I actually enjoy hanging out there more because of it. They are very methodical with their testing and observations. As they get more money they move up to very expensive gear, but it has to be worth it to them. I think they are more conscience of value.
A lot are young. Or younger than the old guys on here. A lot don’t even own their own house or have a place big enough to put a huge system. Doesn’t mean they wouldn’t want one. So a small system has to do for now. But they do yearn for more and eventually as they get bigger places and more money I see them break out and put together some amazing systems. I think better than most peoples systems on here. Especially dollar for dollar. They seem far more open to new ideas too and discovering them with scientific accuracy, sometimes it’s scary how much so. To much we get the opposite here with old guys stuck in their ways and stubborn, not able to comprehend or open to new ideas. It’s a huge turn off.
I’ve also found that actual product designers seem to frequent those sites and actually talk with people, they all hang out together and chat. Come up with new ideas, share their knowledge. That’s pretty encouraging. Those same people seem to avoid this place for the most part. I can kind of understand why. Some of those guys are the same people that designed and revolutionized our very same products we bought decades ago. And there they are talking with the younger generation about new advancements, and they are keeping up better than most here. It’s impressive. Make no mistake they are out there. spread out between different forums. A lot far more active forums than here. Go surf around and find them and mingle with them. I think we can all learn a lot from them believe it or not. I know I have been. |
I can tell you the audiophile market is dead. Resale value is non-existent.
Pro audio market is doing much better though. |
New ideas about what? $1000 on headphones is either too much or too little, what a waist of money. The best value is tuned reel to reel deck connected to, say, vintage Rowland electronics, playing through a number of good vintage speakers. Those kids should come over here and learn something. Especially before spending big. |
As audiophiles continue to stove pipe their systems and as the high end shifts into high gear at least as far as prices go I've dumped my perfectly fine Sennheiser 600/Woo Audio All-tube Headphone amp/Hyper modded Oppo 103 for the peace and harmony of a vintage Sony Walkman CD player with vintage Sony Ultralight headphones. No more obsessing about house AC, power cords, speaker cables, EMI/RFI, magnetic fields, room acoustics, big honking transformer issues, circuit boards rattling around, interconnects, wall outlets, fuses, grounding issues. No more teacher's dirty looks.
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I too have noticed a big drop off on Audiogon discussions and quite frankly advertised items don't sell as fast as a few years back. |
Geoffkait- Just because your tired/worn out with "important" issues that determine sound quality is irrelevant. Unless your trying to be funny, many of us enjoy the journey regardless of the cost or mistakes! Your post reminds me to blast "School's Out"!!!
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Daygrow wrote,
"Geoffkait- Just because your tired/worn out with "important" issues that determine sound quality is irrelevant. Unless your trying to be funny, many of us enjoy the journey regardless of the cost or mistakes! Your post reminds me to blast "School's Out"!!!"
Huh? Are you high?
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I'm high on life! I thought the Sony Walkman reference was a joke! If you enjoy the audiophile hobby the many issues you mentioned...RFI-fuses-room acoustics ect. are viewed as a challenge not an obsession or chore. Enjoy the peace and harmony of your Walkman!
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playdough wrote,
"I’m high on life! I thought the Sony Walkman reference was a joke! If you enjoy the audiophile hobby the many issues you mentioned...RFI-fuses-room acoustics ect. are viewed as a challenge not an obsession or chore. Enjoy the peace and harmony of your Walkman!"
whether tis nobler in the mind yadda yadda the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or by opposing end them? The challenges - as you call them and apparently slough off - are worthy of great effort and cost as they influence, no control, the sound. So, by going to a Sony Walkman I dealt with the physical and electrical constraints naturally imposed by vibration, magnetic fields, room acoustics, house AC power, electrical ground, cabling by eliminating them from the equation. Their elimination is a natural consequence of going to low power with battery supply. The best way to solve a set of simultaneous equations is to reduce the number of unknowns. If one prefers to ignore or minimize these issues it's no skin off my nose.
Geoff Kait
machina dynamica
no goats no glory
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I think devil boy is on to something. |
For those interested in learning useful things about good sound. I'd recommend pretty much ignoring posts by geoffkait better known as mister machina dynamica. |
$3000 for a preamp? You really think that’s an exorbitant price? Geez, that how much high end preamps like the Berning preamp were when I first got into high end audio. And that was 35 years ago. Hel-loo! Wake up and smell the coffee! You know, if you're a skier and you're used to skiing all the cheap resorts, you know the ones I'm taking about, Hey, you really owe it to yourself to ski Aspen at least once in your life.
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Mapman, you have how many posts?! Whaaaat? That's priceless!
cheers
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Personally, I've noticed a loss of interest (in music/audio) when dwelling in the sober, utilitarian, "survival brain" mode of existence. I find it hard to justify spending time to "just listen" to music (I do enjoy music in the background when doing other things).
Personally, I'm looking forward to returning to "Neverland" (THCville) where there is always enough time and always a fresh perspective.
I wish this were a natural function (downshifting your mind) but, try as I may, is only (easily and safely) possible via THC.
I've been "away" for over 35 years but will resume as soon as it's legal.
Can't wait to hear my system under the "right circumstances"!
P.S. I think headphone use is going to give us an entire generation of premature deafness. |
"P.S. I think headphone use is going to give us an entire generation of premature deafness"
That will happen only if you listen too loud and too long. Some people are prone to listening at high volume (whether speakers or phones are in play). It's not the only way to listen. Club levels are not always musical and are not always safe so don't try to reproduce that sound.
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geoffkait, 3k is one man's preamp, another's total mid-fi budget, and yet another's mere upgrade, wouldn't you say?
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Laughing...
several of you guys around here are "high". |
Jayant, extremely, in my case! Extremely Hi-Fi.
Happy Listening! |
jafant: No, some of us wish we were "high". |
The pro market is doing great!
There are three reasons for the demise of audiophile
1. Snake oil
2. Snake oil
3. Snake oil
There are a few other reasons being that the quality in general of audio products peaked in the late 80's. Audiophiles went ever further into crazy pursuits in order to continue what was a legitimate search in the old days when most systems were inadequate. Boutique Manufacturers ended up building designs that were like fashion clothes - no longer accurate but incredibly colourful and justified these designs with bogus science. Then home theatre came along and video killed the radio star! Now people have an attention span of less than a minute - so I don't see it changing. The Digitsl loudness wars has also ruined music quality to the point it is impossible to fix a crap product no matter how much you spend on a home system.
In short, audio in general became very good and the "cause or mission" became aimless once good sound was easily attainable to all.
Pro market is different. There is still room for improvement (loudness, dynamics, accuracy, reliability, portability, IEM monitors etc) but the target market is musicians and producers who look for more than just sound quality at low listening levels with little in the way of dynamics.
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Shadorne,
I'd read DCS is abandoning the pro market. Have you heard/read anything to that effect?
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geoffkait, I do like your state in preamps. Wish I could get a listen to the DartZeel.
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When you factor in the decline of younger audiophiles and the diminishing older generation, combined with the affluent audio jewelry crowd who mostly support the big name boondoggles...the likes of us audio lovers who grew up spinning vinyl on mix n match vintage gear in a darkened basement are far and few between.
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Shandorne, you have painted a pretty bleak picture of a self inflicted wound which I don’t find so true. There is some of that but always, I hardly see it as the driving reason for a dwindling market. Rather I believe the economy not recovering for most since the crash has both the new and used product markets soft and reluctant when it comes to luxury goods. I don’t see anything like the quantity or variety of high quality, sought after, gear being listed here, like the days of past crash. And there is a whole lot of low balling or nothing going on with what is listed here. Many people apparently just don’t have the discretionary funds, and those who do are putting it on the market or, sitting pat IMHO. The boomers post crash, now have to look at their nest egg and market recuperation timing more closely. The boom days are gone.
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Well on the bright side there's lots of buzz about audiophile fuses and quantum stickers these days. Maybe all the big fish have already been fried. 😳 |
He's back. He's rested. And he's bashing audiophiles again.
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I meant your "taste" in preamps geoffkait
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r_f_sayles wrote,
"I meant your "taste" in preamps geoffkait"
I assumed when you said you liked my state in preamps you were making a quantum mechanics inside joke. ;-)
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When you demo two preamps in the same system and then separate them, after installing the other preamp into another system, when you turn one preamp on, the other turns off....no matter how far apart the two preamps are! They call it spooky audio at a distance....apparently God does play dice with our audio. |
Basically what shadorne said. I got a $80 active monitor that just blows away thousand dollar audiophile system right now... I bought it for the lulz because it was so stupid cheap but was completely blown away... I really shouldn’t be bashing audiophile market until I got my last few thousand dollar plus equiptments sold though. Oh well. |
Coli which active monitors? Thanks. |
Maybe everyone is listening to music :-) |
Actually there are oodles of brands to pick from these days and not all of them are uber expensive. Pricing for the high end stuff relative to the market demand is appropriate. As was stated, more people have access to better sound for less money overall, which moves the bar up for what people are willing to buy to improve there already decent sound. Market forces and dismal long range forecasts also subdue enthusiasm. I agree that the major improvements in audio were made back in the late 80's through the 90's. Once the GREEN contingent started influencing design, many horrid sounding products were unleashed. Combine all these factors with the iPod generation and you have a drastically reduced audiophile market. Thanks Obama! Couldn't resist:) |
Dave_b wrote,
"When you demo two preamps in the same system and then separate them, after installing the other preamp into another system, when you turn one preamp on, the other turns off....no matter how far apart the two preamps are! They call it spooky audio at a distance....apparently God does play dice with our audio."
Good one. Cough, cough....
Einstein is lying in bed with a pretty lass, smoking a cigarette. The pretty lass pouts, geez, that didn’t take long. Then Einstein says, it took a very long time for me.
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Relatively speaking, Einstein had a point....and I think she got the thrust of it! |
She collapsed in his arms, her soul superimposed on his. |
Think your over the heads of most on this thread now...of course given that our existence is but a holographic 3 dimensional projection of a 2 dimensional reality, 2 channel audio's attempt to re-create a 3 dimensional soundstage is poetic...don't you think!
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OK Coil, I'll bite. I'm with Mapman here, what exactly is this $80.00 active monitor that blows away 1000 dollars audio systems. Find it hard to believe, so do tell. |
bcoz someone always wants more. |
Sorry, I still got like $8000+ worth of audiophile equips that I need to sell. So not going to say what it is. But here's a freebie since I sold all my audiophile DACs already. The TASCAM UH-7000 is an unbelievable value. Beats multiple $3000+ audiophile DACs... |
I believe you coli ! As much as it would be nice to spread the word , not much worth shouting from the rooftops on this site though . I have a macmini i use ,so usb is my only connection i can used . Picked up this thing called a Duet2 by Apogee . It is a usb interface . i do not even know everything it is intended for but it works as a dac / volume controller . Absolute transparency . Every amp /speaker i use it on has limitless power/ volume attenuation . I am afraid to test the limits of volume before distortion as i know i will blow up something .And sounds better than any multi thousand preamp or dacs i have used in the past . Picked it up for $300 on craigslist . Pretty cool . |
Ah, to be a fly on the wall during some of these magical sonic experiences....one person's nirvana is another's nails on a chalk board! If we are going to pretend to have exceptional sound then please site the recordings used and describe what you are hearing in detail. |
Yeah, it's pointless bashing at snake oils. It's just I'm still kinda pissed about how much money I'm going to lose on them.
The best bang for the buck is definitely used pro audio equiptments, the 5.1 system I'm building now cost a fraction of my previous stereo setup, and there is just no comparison. |
Fair enough Coli. Tascam huh, have to look into that one. |
I understand and I am happy that you have found an alternative mode of enjoyment. I must warn you however, I also did what you are doing now and regretted it later. One day I played my favorite music and it sunk in that the glorious sound I had taken for granted was gone and I began to really hear the replacement Pro stuff for what it was...great sound reinforcement! |
I’m guessing Crown and Peavey. |
Yamaha and Denon stuff with Monster Studio links....the Denon CD player wasn't half bad but the overall sound wasn't even close. But that's me....most musicians don't own or care for stereo systems. Enjoy what you does it for you....some like redheads and others prefer blondes. I'm a brunette guy....they all have the same parts, they just perform differently under certain dynamic conditions:) |
