Why are there so many wooden speakers?
This is true of old speakers and new speakers. This is true of Dynaudio, B&W, Elac, Kef, revel, PMC, Focal, ATC the list goes on and on. This is a longstanding problem that has been deceiving audiophiles for decades and it requires a solution.
The problem with a wooden box is that no matter what crossover or drivers you use, it will still sound like a wooden box.
There is a limit to the sound you can get out of a wooden box so it is not possible to improve the sound just by using different drivers. Despite this, every year or two, the aforementioned companies put new speakers on the market claiming that they sound even better than what came before. In conclusion, we are being misled.
I have no problem with MDF boxes per se. MDF is a good material to use. But if you want to make an even better speaker then you obviously need to use a better material. You cant use the same material and say you have made a better speaker. Thats false.
Let's take the B&W 600 series for example. This is a series that has been going on for decades.
Here is the latest speaker from their current series
https://www.bowerswilkins.com/home-audio/607
There is no mention of what wood is used but I'm pretty sure its MDF. All they talk about is their continuum woofer and dome tweeter that goes up to 38khz. No mention of even improvements to the crossover let alone the cabinet.
I believe that this has gone on for long enough and audiophiles deserve better treatment. I don't know if a class action lawsuit is the answer but something needs to change.
The REASON to use wood is because any other option is WAY more expensive! Sure other materials are used... and if you want them, you are quite free to pay for them! I have built 2 pairs of identical speakers (using 8" Tannoy concentric drivers), where the only difference was one pair used Baltic Birch ply, and the other pair was MDF. The MDF's sounded markedly BETTER! There was less... ummm.... woodyness, in the lower midrange. I then proceeded to increase the internal damping of the birch ply with adhesive vinyl. That helped, but the MDF boxes still sound better IN THIS CASE. I'm not claiming that it's better for every situation. For me to use any other material than wood would be extremely difficult and/or costly. There is no wooden conspiracy as the OP seems to believe. |
@kenjit I wouldn't mind spending time with you discussing speaker design at some point. Many of your arguments are valid, but if a manufacturer decided to build a no compromise cabinet, very few could afford it. I am grateful for plywood and mdf. They allow me to build high quality cabinets that are affordable. I have been very strongly contemplating going into manufacturing again. I've been out of it for 35 years. Just recently I've experimented with light weight concrete composites. Vermiculite and styrene beads. In the end, I have abandoned this idea. In fact, I have been working with lighter wood products and using extensive bracing and deadening technics to built a very lightweight, strong and inert box. It may not be as inert as I would like, but I've done a few lightweight boxes that have produced very satisfying bass that can be handled much easier by an old geaser like me than your typical box..... It has been said all over. Construction time, Construction cost, Parts cost, time involved.... everything is a factor. In the end, The purchaser has to pay and the manufacturers are constantly juggling that cost vs selling price. It isn't that a better cabinet can't be made or anyone wants to deny you. I would suggest that you may fund a manufacturers development cost and I'm sure that you could get any type cabinet built that your hearts desire. Of course that isn't practical.... and practical is what this is all about. Good Listening, Tim (timlub) |
I think our collective chains are being yanked by the OP, but the clever responses by folks far more witty than me have made this an interesting thread. So far as I can see, MDF is an "engineered" wood product, but more immune to resonance issues. Wood is wood, it seems to me, plywood of any composition included. There are almost zero cost-effective alternatives so that is the simple answer to why wood is used in speakers. I had the oppty to hear a pair of Tannoy Westminster speakers this week, albeit clones, but employing the same birch plywood construction techniques as the real ones, with the addition of a wood-encased super tweeter, all powered by a very high-end tube-based front end. Heck, if i had known that "wood" speakers were so tragically flawed, I would not have come to the conclusion that they were among the finest speakers my ears had ever had the joy of hearing. I did have a couple of pairs of Green Mountain Audio speakers, with enclosures made of a granite epoxy resin and they were excellent, but not intrinsically better than other wood speakers I have had, and brutally heavy. I now have Spatial Audio OB speakers, which I think employ MDF baffles, and I have found them to be Holy Grail of speakers. I had a pair of KHL Model 5 "wood" speakers a few years, recapped and re-wired, which were pretty sublime, with lots of balls in the LF driven by a tube amp. I wish I had never sold them, a great "old school" sound, with a luscious mid-range response. Yet on my list of speakers to hear would be DeVore "wood" speakers, which garner tremendous praise and are the speakers of choice for many audio reviewers. That said, I have heard many Harbeth speakers over the years that I found rather unmusical and drastically over-priced. At any rate, it is difficult to imagine moving away from OB speakers for myself personally. |
Answer to O.P.: Because there are so many trees on earth. There's nothing inherently inferior about wood as a material for enclosures. There are certainly man-made materials with different damping/energy storage properties, but these often come with weight & cost issues associated. Moreover, there is no one man-made material I'm aware of that consistently makes a superior speaker enclosure, no matter who designs & makes the speaker. Arguing the merits of different enclosure materials is somewhat like claiming that this or that digital chip makes a superior DAC: a helluva lot else goes into making a DAC, just as it does into making a loudspeaker. |
@timlub, have you ever considered using tiles to enforce a box? I'm just a hobbyist who likes tinkering and I wondered if including a ceramic or porcelain tile in the wall would make a big improvement without costing much since they're mass produced and available for low cost per unit. Say 3 layers of 1/4" mdf where there's a big square cut out of the middle layer that is filled with a super stiff ceramic floor tile. It'd add some time to construction but not much to materials and I'd think it eliminate almost all box flex in the low frequencies. |
Making the same speakers out of different materials and testing them would be poor engineering. Every time you change the material you change the material properties. Young's Modulus, density, and Poisson Ratio will be different, and so will the resonant frequencies of the design. You need to define materials up front, then design the speaker, not the other way around. -Geoff |
Back in 1977 I read spherical enclosures have lower diffraction. So I made spherical enclosures for my tweeters and mid-ranges out of polystyrene bead-board. For the 8" woofers I made hollow spheres out of particle board. I covered the woofer enclosures with 0.25" of felt. I have a big foot sub-woofer I made from plans in an Audio magazine. I suspended the six spheres from the ceiling in the basement using ropes. The drivers are time aligned. I painted the tweeter and mid-range enclosures with gray paint last year so they are close to the same color as the woofer enclosures. The system still works well. I currently have it hooked up to a Yamaha PSR-190 keyboard. The crossovers are external to the speakers. I got help from Bob Ludwig in St. Louis on the design of the crossovers. It has nice inductors and capacitors. Wylie Williams said it was a labor of love. It is one of my good systems. I have ten systems. Another good on has two pairs of Magnapan 1.7i speakers spread out in a big room with two Velodyne subs. Polystyrene bead-board is non-resonant is my point. |
@kenjit. The issue with making speakers where the only deviation is the cabinet is only one of them is going to sound okay to sell. In my initial test only one speaker sounded good enough to sell. The more poorly damped material needed significant mods to crossover and internal damping materials. I would not sell my current cabinets with the same drivers without a crossover changes and that only reflect a deviation between fiberglass and carbon fiber. This would be a better “after hours” event at a hifi show like AXPONA. If and when we have shows back I could set this test up for people to listen. |
Yo Yo Ma uses a Carbon Fiber cello made by Luis and Clark. A company that makes wonderful sounding CF based string instruments. There are a bunch of academic papers on this subject of composite materials in production of traditional instruments and obviously, some manufacturers. That being said, I am not sure how this is terribly relevant since the goal with a cabinet is to dampen. With a few exceptions, most speaker cabinets are intended to behave directly opposite how an instrument would work. |
@djones51 I heard an expensive ($100,000+) glass cabinet speaker at the LAX show years ago. It sounded mediocre at best (couldn't stand it), despite using similar high end equipment as the two adjacent booths/halls. Wow, was that bad! I do not think that a glass speaker is a wise choice for a cabinet (I noticed the one you selected was about $15,000). The $8,000 Volti Rival was extremely superior sounding with modest equipment and it is all wood like a Klipsch. |
@kenjit My next speaker enclosures are being cut as we speak. Made from some of the most homogeneous and even-grained materials on earth! Im using cut and polished slabs of cooled magma. Volcanic rock from Pompeii, and an inner lining of a man-made composite of ancient volcanic ash, also from Pompeii, Italy. Ive found that the slabs are incredibly strong and inert. Not as heavy as “regular” rock, such as granite. Ive been selling plinths made of this material now for 20 years. It’s beautiful and very stable and inert. And, this material is highly sustainable. Its just gorgeous when polished! With the popularity of rock kitchen countertops, the technology is local. This is fun! |
The best kept secret... cement speakers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEdryqS8ij0 Not connected with this speaker company in any way |
MDF isn't exactly "wood". It is an engineered wood product. AFAIK, violins and other string instruments continue to be made (exclusively?) with "real" wood such as maple. But which if any company offers HiFi speakers with "real" wood cabinets? There'd be serious issues not only with raw material costs but even more with labor costs and quality control. How would you even make a large box dense and stiff enough for the application, yet still allow for wood movement so it does not crack? Traditional cabinet boxes typically are made with panels that float in a face frame. IIRC, MDF did not become widely available until fairly recently (1980s-1990s). Before then, weren't most speaker boxes made from some other engineered wood product (such as plywood or "beaver barf" chipboard)? I suspect I'd prefer the sound that comes out of an engineered-wood box to the sound that comes out of a plastic/metal/concrete/fiberglass box (all else being equal ... which they probably wouldn't be.) Anybody using bamboo, maybe? It makes nice wind chimes. Couldn't somebody build a 2-way bass reflex cabinet from a big whomping cylinder of giant bamboo? |
Actually, Yo-Yo Ma only uses the carbon fiber cello for outdoor concerts. His principal cello is a 1733 Montagnana from Venice, valued at $2.5 million. He also plays a 1712 Stradavarius, the Davidov Stradivarius (likely worth $10+ mill) which was owned by the great cellist Jacqueline du Pre, who played it in the late 1960s and upon her death in 1987 made it available to Yo-Yo Ma. |
Great post. MDF does make bass notes sound muddy. Sounds waves from the back of the driver have the same output as the waves from the front. They reach the MDF and their energy is transformed into massive vibrations. Remember that energy can not be destroyed. Now the MDF is vibrating and dissipating that energy out into the room. The surface area of the exterior of the cabinet is often quite large so even a small amount of energy that reaches the cabinet walls is capable of producing a large amount of distorted sounds. No surprise that monitor speakers with their small cabinets sound clean. |
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I suppose you also think we should open a class action suit against the musical instruments manufacturers. Why in God's name are they insisting for centuries on building musical instruments out of wood instead to moving to better materials... The answer is simple, because wood makes the music sound nice. |
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@sounds_real_audio, "No surprise that monitor speakers with their small cabinets sound clean." Absolutely. Cabinet problems can only get worse with size. It’s no surprise that the largest manufacturing cost is usually the cabinet itself. According to KEF. "LS50 Meta’s baffle is engineered from an injection-moulded Dough Moulding Compound (DMC), while inside the cabinet cross bracing and Constrained Layer Damping (CLD) combine to deaden internal vibrations." What exactly is DMC? Come to think of it: What exactly is the mysterious material X that Wilson uses for its cabinets? What about Harbeth flying in the face of fashion with their thin walled lossy cabinets? They seem to be taking a 180 degree opposite approach to those who favour the heavier, thicker and more solid approach. Current cabinet trends seem to be heading towards a layered approach (MDF or the better HDF). Sometimes the layers might even be individually laminated - greater stiffness but with an increase of both mass and cost. It all depends upon exactly where you want to put those pesky resonances. As the OP pointed out, as long as you insist upon using a box, it will sound like a box. Some more than others. |
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