Who says cables don't make a difference?
Anyone with an agenda, pro cables or anti cables, audiophile marketer or audiophile debunker has nothing to do with science....And technology is a servant of science, a slave of scientific endeavour not science by itself...It is truer with the passing centuries.... The more advanced species quit physical technology long time ago.... :) Dont ask me how i know that.... |
I tried 3 Interconnects direct from my DAC to amps. Two amps were integrated, one was not and volume was used with the Audirvana player on my PC. 1 Moon Audio Black Dragon 3 ft. 2 Moon Audio Silver Dragon 1.5ft. 3 Better Cables Silver Serpent 1.5 ft. A few weeks ago we compared #1 to some Amazon Interconnects and 3 out of 3 of us, two were blind noticed quite a big difference. This time, 1 and 3 sounded about the same. Then we tested 1 vs 2 on 3 different amps. In every cars we could hear the difference. 3 - silver was brighter. It is what I would choose for detailed listing, but it would become fatiguing much sooner. My buddy liked the 1 set better in all situations. I thought 2 were better on one system. For the money - #3 was a great way to go. My net is they absolutely matter on a clean system vs the very low cost cables. $20 vs $300 mattered. $100 vs $300 not so much. And silver (bought used on eBay) near double the price were different. But different like how you might tune an EQ. I have not compared to anything higher priced. I expect I might discern a difference. I was surprised that there is a difference, but there is. |
I'll add, I have a DAP that I bought an inexpensive 3.5 to RCA (Y) I was using. I also incorrectly used a balanced higher end set from same DAP to same amp. The balanced sounded so much better. I thought balanced was why. Reading more, that was a no-no. Anyway, that Y was left in another location. I pulled out another Y and was surprised it sounded as good as the balanced. Both were pretty inexpensive - I'd guess from memory ~$30 and both sounded very different. So now I am looking for a good Y cable. |
Many people have done something g similar David, I know the naysayers, and Robert in particular will try to tell you why your test was invalid and you are really just assuming attributes being associated with particular cables because of what you’ve read about them. trust your ears, and as you saw, different people prefer different sounds, so one is t always better than another, but more like one may be better to you, and in the end, that’s all that matters. We are the ones spending our money for our personal enjoyment. Not sure why some feel the need to try to convince us it’s bogus. You’re not spending their money, nor asking them to either. |
Not many scientist inhabit an audio thread....Their time is very short and very full already by other finality than arguing... Debunking is not a scientific activity "per se" nor marketing a product is either ... Experience in audio even for 40 years is not proof that you know all there is to know.... If i want to know about electrical compatibility between some electronic components i will ask some engineer here that are very competent.... We all know already some... But who among them will know how to use an herkimer diamond (H.D.) to improve very much an audio system for peanuts? Or will they smile at my "irrational" and "illusory" idea, even if experimenting that is easy, will they perform it? One thing is sure, a true scientist will try my idea, he will not propose a blind test instead.... But the answer is no for most, most will not experiment with the H. D. .... Dogmas kill science....Simple.... Happily i am an undogmatic free spirit, i listen to no one, except some competent one for basic information, and there is good fellows for that here, but i takes all that in my hand for the rest.... I am very proud.of my low cost audio system... :) |
We are the ones spending our money for our personal enjoyment. Not sure why some feel the need to try to convince us it’s bogus. You’re not spending their money, nor asking them to either. Bingo! One reason I hate this double-blind debate so much is its so unbelievably misguided. There's a time and a place for everything. Some guy like Ted Denney or Keith Herron, both of whom do use double-blind testing, they have a reason and they use it correctly. The idea, which I know for sure in the case of Keith who I talked to about this, is to test and see if there is any preference at all, and if so which way. These test subjects do not even know what is being compared or tested all they do is indicate whether they prefer one or the other or no difference. In this case testing is justified and valid because the goal is to develop a result a wide range of people will like. So it only makes sense to test a wide range of people. The situation with cables is completely different. Its one person buying one cable for themselves. What does that person care for the opinion of some random interboob? |
roberttdid, take a bag of herkimer diamond and a piece of shungite put them on an amplifier one after the other and anyone will be able to pass the blindtest and guess which each one is .... Try it yourself....Instead of loosing time to debunk open doors.... Are you not curious? Is it not a simple experiment? You always ask for argument.... this is better than an argument.... After that i will give to you a simple cable recipe.... :) You answered swiftly those who has disrespected you.... I respect your knowledge...But you dont know everything even about cables.... By the way i create my own sound heaven with experiments not arguments....Who need arguments? :) |
Robert if the description of your swampland is as accurate as your ideas on audio theory, I’m not intrested. I prefer a certain type of swamp land, and I have little faith in your ability or skil to properly identify or describe the type of swampland you have for sale. Now if I can have my own third party certified expert examine your swamp land and give a proper description, then it’s possible I might be interested. But it seems you’re never open to independent third party, actual experts in their fields, when it involves the possibility of the results conflicting with your own opinions. |
I have given a simple test to try and will wait for a feedback.... Arguments only are mainly for marketers or debunkers... Experiments are more interesting and in audio the crux of the matter.... Here it is: take a bag of micro herkimer diamonds (40 or more around 10gram) and a piece of shungite (100 gram) put them on an amplifier near the transformer, one after the other and anyone will be able to pass the blindtest and guess which each one is .... The shungite will compress the sound, the herkimer diamonds will expand it.... After the blindtest i will give a recipe for other experiments.... |
Thyname, I just researched some things you mentioned and the timing of Roberts supposed earlier alter ego, and the posts of his current one, and I have some to the same conclusions. The Robert account was started beginning of June. Since then you are correct, it’s been non stop attacking and belittling people. Claims to be the foremost audio/engineer expert on the forum apparently, as he doesn’t seem to have found anyone to be his equal, and most everyone have been shown as being deficient in their thinking and or hearing. Also a lot seem to be just generally poor human beings to boot along the way. The world must be a lonely place when you’re the only one who can see the real truth. Maybe it’s a good thing the rest of us are so much less enlightened . At least we have company |
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speedbump6, "He could and would never settle for a true blind test don’t by independent researchers who could care less about what the results show. No matter how it was done, even if he initially agreed the process was sound, he would find the faults in the methods if the results didn’t turn out as he wished. He’s mad that point abundantly clear." Not to take sides, but it seems that you are very familiar with roberttdid's inner workings. Could it be that you are slightly biased and incorrect in your strong affirmative statements? No matter how provoked you may feel, do not fall into a trap of disregarding your own statement... "I’m not arrogant enough to to believe that I know everything..." |
Nope, you totally feel inadequate and whatshisname ...totally inadequate. Ditto for speedbump. Can't resist jumping en-mass onto my posts in some weird need for street cred or something, but alas, same tired arguments, or really lack thereof ... my ears! my ears! my ears! ... you guys make me laugh. You really are a hoot. |
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Pretty much a given that boxer12 and andy2 are the same person. They virtually always seem to post at the same time, usually on the same or related threads .... weird. Let me type slow .... for you. Your brain has awful audio memory, and your eyes influence auditory perception. Self awareness would generally make most people realize their limitations. p.s. You and pandy have mentioned measurements probably 10 times more than I have in this thread ... just putting that out there. |
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I think that paying a premium for cables (after auditioning in your system) makes sense if you have a good system. For someone who has invested in a good system, the cost of an incremental improvement makes sense. I have a pretty good system, Harbeth Anniversary 30.2s, Line Magnetic 845 Premium, Feikert Woodpecker with Koetsu Black Gold Line cart, Audio Research PH9 phono stage, Gold Note DS-10 streamer. I auditioned some Nordhost Frey2s and hoped they would not make a noticeable improvement. Unfortunately, they did. I bought them. Music sounds better. My wallet is lighter. I try not to think about it. I couldn't put in a dedicated 20 amp line, so I auditioned some conditioners and power cords. I got an Isotek EVO3 Aquarius power conditioner and a bunch of EVO3 Optimum power cords. They made a difference, sounded better to my ears. Nordost sounded a bit better, but they are really pricey. I've used different speaker cables in different systems. One of the best sounding systems I've had used a 5 watt per channel SET amp, a pair of speakers no one has ever heard of, and the Mapleshade Double Helix Plus speaker wire. They worked very well together. In that system, the Mapleshades sounded better than any other speaker wire I had at that time for comparison. Anyway, trust your ears, and weigh your purse. |
BTW, The reason I recommended a "pro-audio" site for you is so you'd be able to flash your credentials around (& undoubtedly impress the heck out them), slap each other on the back about how good Belden cable is, & would never have to use your ears. Perfect fit. I'll always have your best interest in mind david |
Andy, let’s not demean used car salespeople, they do have a purpose. People do need used cars, so they have a real and useful function. Unlike certain trolls whose only purpose brings no value whatsoever to anyone. The fake science (maybe he has a primer he uses as his wealth of information) does more harm than good because it’s being misapplied, misquoted, and misunderstood. he misses the Forest for the tress. It’s like seeing the Mona Lisa, and you’re trying to take in its beauty, and he’s trying to explain why the wrong painting technique was used in the painting. Coming from some one who can’t even appreciate the beauty of the art itself. The techniques are end games, they’re used to achieve a purpose. That purpose is to create something beautiful. If the technique works to help achieve that goal, that’s all that matters. |
roberttdid Why do you ignore my polite offer to do a simple test yourself ? Arguments are not enough, and arguing is of no avail except for marketers and debunkers.... Scientist prefer experiment first... Or do you prefer to argue? Here it is: take a bag of micro herkimer diamonds (40 or more around 10gram) and a piece of shungite (100 gram) put them on an amplifier near the transformer, one after the other and anyone will be able to pass the blindtest and guess which each one is .... The shungite will compress the sound, the herkimer diamonds will expand it.... After the blindtest i will give a recipe for other experiments.... Is it not simple enough? The total cost is a few bucks for each minerals.... |
@mahgister --- you don't understand, I am sorry. This sophist's blindtest experiments are meant to test the listener, not the gear. He has made it clear multiple times. Under both his accounts, atdavid first now this "robert". Most certainly they are not meant to test HIM. So, similar to Mike Powell's offer to him when he was atdavid to visit him to blindtest the cables, he will likely ask you to do the same --- ask YOU to blindtest your tweaks, not him on his own. |
