Who needs a Diamond Cantilever...? 💍

What is not generally accepted, is that the world of ’Analogue Audio’ is as much ’ArtForm’ as it is Science.
The fact that so little is known about WHY we are able to hear such differences between cartridges, tonearms, turntables, drive-systems, solid state vs vacuum tube.....should make it obvious that we are in the hands of ’Artists’, ’Creators’ and sometimes even ’Geniuses’ for the advancements in ’Analogue Audio’.

Apart from the ’Genius’ of Sony’s one-piece diamond cantilever/stylus....have a good look at the SHAPE of the STRUCTURE....
Why is it shaped like this...?
Look at the SHAPE of the Copperhead Tonearm compared to all other tonearms 🧐
Why is it shaped like this...and unlike any other tonearm?
And why is there a similarity between these two ’shapings’?
Both tonearm and cartridge-cantilever....when in use.....are structurally defined as ’Propped Cantilevers’ NOT pure cantilevers....and the structural forces (Shear and Bending) within ’Propped Cantilevers’ are graphically ’mirrored’ in these ’shapings’ 🔬

I’m not claiming that these ’shapings’ are solely responsible for the fact that the Copperhead is the best tonearm I have heard and the Sony XL-88D the best cartridge......
What I am claiming, is that ’Analogue Audio’ design involves so many arts and sciences that the only way a designer becomes proficient (let alone brilliant), is not only to be highly educated in all the sciences involved.....but more importantly to be mentored by their elder masters and craftsmen who in turn have also been mentored by past masters.
This is the nature of artistic endeavour and for it to advance and prosper.....a thriving, inspiring and profitable industry needs to exist to maintain the core of elder craftsmen whilst also attracting new apprentices.

This state of affairs has not existed in ’Analogue Audio’ for 30 years and the elder masters and craftsmen have virtually all disappeared together with the vast data-banks they had assembled within their mega-billion $ companies.
The result has been, that the recent resurgence of ’Analogue Audio’ has inevitably led to ’self-taught’, under-educated and inexperienced ’newbies’ entering the industry to fill the vacuum.
Their sole contribution to the ’Art/Science’ of cartridge, tonearm and turntable design is ’technology’ 🙏
They believe that everything can be improved by the advancements in materials science, computers, lasers, 3D printing, CNC machining, chemistry etc.

They are mistaken.....!
And so are all the gullible, innocent followers of most of the new analogue products launched over the last 15 years.

• This is NOT the ’Golden Age’ of Analogue!!!!!
• The 70s and 80s WERE the ’Golden Age’ of Analogue.
• The digital tape-decks used today are INFERIOR to the analogue ones used in ’The Golden Age’
• The recordings produced today are INFERIOR to those of the ’The Golden Age’
• The quality of records themselves are INFERIOR to those stamped in ’The Golden Age’
• The cartridges produced today are generally INFERIOR to those of ’The Golden Age’
• The tonearms produced today are generally INFERIOR to those of ’The Golden Age’
• The turntables produced today are generally INFERIOR to the ’great’ ones of ’The Golden Age’

Why am I so sure about these statements.....?
Because I have listened to so many products from the past as well as the present, just like Chakster has 🧐
Most dissenters from this viewpoint have simply not had the same depth of listening experiences with those ’hard-to-obtain’ products.

Why is technology NOT the ’silver bullet’ for ’Analogue’?

• Why can no-one paint or sculpt like Michelangelo 500 years ago?

Today we have better paints and power tools?

• Why can no-one make a violin to compete with a Stradivarius made 400 years ago?

Today we have all the power tools, CNC machines, 3D printers and new chemistry for lacquers

• Do you think today’s mosaic or stained glass industry could compete with that of the Byzantine or Gothic eras?
• Do you think today’s watches are better than those made 30-60 years ago?

Today we have all the technology to ensure they are....but they’re NOT!
The Swiss Watch Industry (just like the Analogue Audio Industry) was virtually wiped out in the 80’s and 90’s with the revolution of ’digital’ watches.
Dozens of small firms disappeared and only Rolex and Patek Philippe maintained their ownership structure.
Luckily.....unlike the audio industry.....the digital revolution was shortlived
and a sudden huge consumer market developed for high-horology and ’Statement’ analogue watches which is almost out of control....🤯
This allowed those artisans and elder craftsmen in the Swiss industry to be retained and to mentor a new wave of apprentices, but the new watches of High-Horology produced today, are very much created the same way as in the past with hand-finishing vastly valued over machine-finishing.
Watches from the 60’s and ’70s continue to set the multi-million dollar records at auctions.

• Do you think that in 20 years time, anyone will be able to design and produce a naturally aspirated Flat 6, V10 or V12 that will be better than today’s Porsche, Lamborghini and Ferrari ones?

Not a chance!!!
The ’Golden Age’ of the internal combustion engine is at an end and never again will the world be able to match or improve upon engines from this period.

The same applies to the Golden Age of Analogue Audio 🤗

* The views expressed above are solely those of Halcro and not supported or condoned by anyone who derives a current living within the Audio Industry

@halcro I propose again the unanswered question:

sony XL 88D
what good is that sphere-like pretuberance located near the cantilever?

Sorry @best-groove,
I didn't understand what you were referring to in your previous query....
PROTUBERANCE is something I hadn't previously noticed and I have absolutely no idea what it is or what's its purpose 🤔
If it's any consolation.... the standard Sony XL-88 has exactly the same thing 👀

@halcro 

I understand ... so it remains a mystery at least for now.

Chakster,

I agree that the boron pipe and beryllium are no longer available but I was referring to the quoted text for my response.

The way the vintage cantilever and stylus mounted together is different from almost anything new.

Aside from the one piece diamond cantilever/tip combo, what historical method of mounting a diamond to a cantilever is no longer available today? Dovers only complaint seems to be centered on the visual look opposed to the actual quality / strength of the junction and I do not consider that alone to be a valid judgement of quality. Under a microscope, the namiki Sapphire cantilever/microridge combo is a thing of beauty but the "retipped" boron / microridge combo sounds substantially better in my experiences.

dave

@intactaudio

I posted before, but look again, those are vintage:

This is Sapphire Astrion cantilever of ADC.
This is Beryllium cantilever of Victor X1II.
This is Titanium Pipe of Victor X1IIE
This is Boron Pipe of Technics 205c mk4
This is RUBY cantilever of Dynavector
This is Diamond cantilever of Dynavector

Aside from the one piece diamond cantilever/tip combo, what historical method of mounting a diamond to a cantilever is no longer available today?

Modern method is normally a drop of glue on a rod type cantilevers around stylus tip. SoundSmith methos is a drop of glue in front of the cantilever. Same for Ortofon method.

As you know they can’t use a proper method like this anymore, because they don’t have Boron Pipe any longer. Since the Boron considered the most advanced type of the cantilever this this is where we have big difference between old vs. new methods.

This is old method, it’s Grace LEVEL II Boron Pipe / Micro Ridge.

Nowadays they might have titanium pipe or zirconia pipe, but not Boron Pipe.

Under a microscope, the namiki Sapphire cantilever/microridge combo is a thing of beauty but the "retipped" boron / microridge combo sounds substantially better in my experiences.

I am not trying to say what is better, this is a personal thing, I’m trying to show a difference on pictures.

But comparing same cart with different styli (genuine vs. re-cantilevered) the Boron Pipe was the best sounding and it was genuine. And Technics explained why.

My example is Technics because I can’t add any documents from Grace, Audio-Technica, Sony .... buy Boron Pipe was their choice too (along with Beryllium) for the most expensive models up to the late ’80s - early ’90s.

Chakster, It is being done this way for a reason. Modern adhesives are very strong and light. It is easier to align the stylus and keep it aligned while the glue is set by UV. The square shank indexes the cut surface of the cantilever  which is set at the right angle. The end result is much lighter and tough enough to stand regular service. It is easier to knock the stylus off if the cartridge is miss handled. There is nothing special about those old cantilevers. That diamond cantilever is a boat anchor. It is too short and way to fat, an experiment perhaps. If nobody else does it that way there is a reason. Lasers are better than ever. Blasting a little hole through a cantilever is child's play. But, then you are left with the mass of material beyond the stylus hole in exactly the wrong place. What you are showing us is outdated technology.

Chakster...  

Your argument seems to be that boron pipe is no longer available.  I agree.  The rest of your argument makes no sense.  If you are saying nobody nude mounts like your boron pipe example, namiki does it with zirconium tube.  Both Namiki and Ogura cut holes through their sapphire / ruby / diamond cantilevers to hold the diamond shaft prior to adhesive and while Namiki does only use glue for their Boron cantilevers Ogura has the typical mounting method used in all of your referenced pictures.

dave

Modern adhesives are very strong and light. It is easier to align the stylus and keep it aligned while the glue is set by UV

With the gluing system without embed as indicated by Chakster, it is necessary to be very careful in cleaning the stylus with the appropriate cleaning liquids; there is a serious danger of unglue the stylus from the cantilever.

Your argument seems to be that boron pipe is no longer available. I agree.

Boron Pipe is lighter than Boron Rod, laser mounted stylus tip on Boron pipe is also lighter, the moving mass is lighter and this is important for a high-end cartridge. It is extremely important for MM or MI cartridges and their high frequency reproduction. 

Ceramic Pipe cantilever from Grace is no longer availabe, that was one of the rarest cantilever ever! 

Beryllium Pipe from Audio-Technica is not available, it was Gold-Plated.  

Beryllium cantilever from Victor is no longer available and it was quite unusual, look at the stylus. 

Also look at Titanium Pipe from Victor. 

The rest of your argument makes no sense.

So you ignored my point about Ortofon and SoundSmith cantilever systems with the diamond mounted not under the cantilever, but in front of the cantilever rod? 

If you are saying nobody nude mounts like your boron pipe example, namiki does it with zirconium tube.

Zicronia pipe is nowhere near Boron Pipe properties. My thread about Zirconia Pipe Cantilever is on audiogon since 2020 and people know nothing about this type of cantilever. Do you have any cartridge with Zirconia cantilever? 

I think titanium pipe may be still available, I'm not sure. 

Both Namiki and Ogura cut holes through their sapphire / ruby / diamond cantilevers to hold the diamond shaft prior to adhesive and while Namiki does only use glue for their Boron cantilevers Ogura has the typical mounting method used in all of your referenced pictures.

The diamond cantilever and stylus mentioned in this thread by OP is cut from one piece of diamond, this is unique method, no longer available. 

Sapphire or Ruby from Namiki are OK (not identical to old Sapphire or Ruby though). But look at SoundSmith Ruby is you want to see something completely different from anything else.  

Enough said, when we discuss cantilevers I always think that people have no memory at all, it's been said so many times on audiogon. 

Dear @best-groove  @intactaudio  : Today and in the past ( too. ) I don't know how many cartridge buyers check how the stylus tip is atached to the cantilever before  buy that cartridge.

Maybe not one because who cares about ! !.

Like in other kind of industries and in different times the manufacturers take the build parts that are available in that time in the market and that goes with the quality level they are looking for at an specific price.

I don't know you or other of the gentlemans in this thread but what I buy is a cartridge ( not a cantilever. ) and I don't care about that " no sense/stupid " stylus tip/cantilever issue .

Just imagine a Lyra Etna SL where a buyer decides not to buy it because the cantilever is solid and not a pipe ! ! go figure ! ! 

As I said that is an STUPIDITY and with all respect to all of you ( me included. ) is stupid to follow arguing about....but.........

R.

Chakster,

I am only trying to address your statement that i loosely interpret as 'they do not mount diamonds like they used to'.  Here are the pictures of your historical examples along side current offerings from Namiki and I do not see any appreciable difference.  Can you explain how they differ?

You will get no argument from me about materials that are no longer available as being 'better' or that Fritz Gyger offers options with just an adhesion bond (as does Namiki with their Microridge).  I also understand the uniqueness of the XL88. I just take issue with the thought that the heyday of the diamond cantilever junction is long past.

dave

There is no image on your link, Dave. Maybe you can re-attach it. I have modern cartridges with Boron Rod (Phasemation for example) and I took some nice picture using my macro lens, so I know the method.

Some of my favorite MC cartridges are low compliance with aluminum cantilever (FR-7f, FR-7fz, Miyabi Standard, Miyabi MCA ... just to name a few).

But my favorite MM are often with Beryllium Pipe or Boron Pipe and I believe this is critical for high frequency extention to have a low moving mass and high compliance. Pipe is always lighter than Rod so the moving mass is lighter with Boron Pipe (or Beryllium pipe). Audio-Technica made gold-plated pipes, after Beryllium was restricted they could only continue with Boron Pipe, but not anymore! 

Interesting discussion as always, Halcro. Re the “protuberance”:

It appears to me that the protuberance is intended to keep the cantilever from moving too far in the downward direction. Perhaps to avoid putting excessive stress on the suspension (?); particularly if the cartridge were set up with aggressive positive VTA or accidental dropping of the tonearm.

Beautiful looking (little) beast!

Thanks Frogman,
Always a pleasure to see your participation and comments 😃
And I think you've nailed the 'protuberance'....👍
Makes sense knowing the brittleness and expense of diamond as a cantilever material.
I wonder if the new modern LOMC cartridges with diamond cantilevers have something similar to limit deflection?

Broken Picture Link From Above showing new vs. vintage mounts.

Not to go too far off topic but why isn't boron tubing still available?  Obviously Namiki can deal with zirconia tube so the boron tube if available shouldn't be a stretch today.  A few years back when one of the two boron rod manufactures in Japan closed its doors overnight there was a worldwide shortage of boron cantilevers.  Jico turned to sapphire for their SAS and Namiki was willing to try different materials.  Boron rod eventually came back on the scene and is my current favorite.

dave

@intactaudio 

Dovers only complaint seems to be centered on the visual look opposed to the actual quality / strength of the junction and I do not consider that alone to be a valid judgement of quality.

Actually I have on hand both the original Sumiko Talisman S sapphire cantilever with nude mounted line contact and also another Taslisman S retipped by the original Garrott Bros with a Namiki microscanner sylus in the original sapphire tube cantilever.

In a direct comparison the original is cleaner, more precise across the range. The Garrott retipped Talisman with microscanner has a fuller midrange, perhaps a little more evolved, but overall it is not as crisp as the orignal - the original is better.

Interestingly I pulled out the Talisman paperwork and Sumiko describes it at follows
"line contact stylus as above, laser mounted so that cantilever and stylus act as though they'd been shaped from a single diamond crystal."

Remember this cartridge was a Sumiko badged Sony Soundtech design, so clearly they focussed on the rigidity of the stylus/cantilever joint.

Dear @dover  : What you did not mentuioned yet is that the Sumiko Talisman ( all 3 models ) are truly good quality performers.

I was not aware that were a Sony design/builder in those old times. I still own two of them and really like me.

I don't know if the 88D is a yoke less design because the Talisman it's a yoke less that they patented as Direct Field Focus that " eliminates unnecessary yokes and pole pieces ".

The cartridge is a small one but a big quality performer and even that the models have different build material cantilever and stylus tip all have the same compliance and same cartridge weigth ( 6.3gr. )

The cantilevers are: aluminum/magnesium alloy, boron and sapphire. .

Certainly these Talisman are not ordinary LOMC cartridges.


@intactaudio   ""  A few years back when one of the two boron rod manufactures in Japan closed its doors overnight there was a worldwide shortage of boron cantilevers.  Boron rod eventually came back on the scene and is my current favorite.  "

If I remember due to that " even T JC took precaution and I understand that he bougth boron for his designs.

Btw, hollow boron is way more resonant that a solid/rod boron. I'm not just talking but at least other 2 gentlemans experienced that when our EPC 100C MK4 were fixed with solid boron instead the original tube. 

The most critical/crucial issue on cantilever/stylus is to find out the less resonant one and here the cantilever can " speaks " for it self.

R.

The only reason "to fix" Technics P100 mk4 cartridge is softened suspension and the only reason to justify a complete rebuild is to claim that "new cantilever is better" (of course). A working sample with a perfect suspension is almost impossible to find, so the buyer have no chance to hear the potential of this cartridge and must proceed with rebuild (new cantilever/stylus combo and new suspension) or stop using this cartridge after all because of the full collapse of the damper. One problem with rebuild: no one will do that, in the past it was VdH (the most expensive service). Normal people can’t contact Vdh directly like they can contact SoundSmith directly (who will refuse this job with this particular cart).

Anyway, if someone can hear a resonance of the cantilever by ears I am happy for this person, he has a perfect hearing abilities.

The rest is just academic research for those who interested.

Btw, that Talisman aluminum/magnesium cantilever alloy ( for what I remember ) was unique and did it to make the resonant aluminum less resonant through the magnesium combination.

@dover  if you own two samples that could means that you like it.

R.

I’m finding this discussion to be rather useless, and therefore, exhausting. Do we have any measurable data or blind studies that show that any of this matters?

Buy a cartridge that is good enough (any Koetsu, my personal preference, will do), that is compatible with your system sit back and enjoy the music.

I’m finding this discussion to be rather useless, and therefore, exhausting.

it's fun to philosophize about the theory of nothing.  LoL

Chakster, if by VdH, you mean Van den Hul: I have been sending my cartridges to him for 25 years minimum. I’m a “normal” person (if I put aside the fact that I’m an audiophile) and I speak to people there, get emails back and forth, and he is less expensive than Soundsmith by a country mile. 

Soundsmith is 25 minutes down the Hudson River from me. It would be much easier and cause much less anxiety if I could simply drive my koetsu onyx over to him rather than worry about what Fedex or the USPS may do to my cartridge in transit. But VdH is less than half as expensive as Soundsmith, and that’s including the cost of shipping across the pond and back. 

I had an experience with Soundsmith a few years back. Two soldered wires in my Beard P505 preamp came loose during my move from NYC to the Hudson Valley. I thought I’d bring it to Soundsmith to fix it. But they wanted $600 up front just to “diagnose” the preamp. I said “f#@^ this s^¥*”, I went out and got a soldering iron and did it myself.

Best-groove

”it's fun to philosophize about the theory of nothing. LoL”

yes. All those philosophers used to drive taxis in NYC before the Pakistanis took over. 

That expletive is really hard to pronounce.  What language is it?  I don't blame you for your consternation at being asked to pay $600 to diagnose a problem in your preamplifier, but could that be because SS are not necessarily expert with electronics per se and would need to farm out the work, pay some third party at his retail, and then make a profit over that amount?  I think that could be the explanation.  In the area of cartridge manufacture and repair, we are lucky to have both SS and vdH at our service.  If you have a problem with electronics in future, I recommend Bill Thalmann at Music Technology in Springfield, VA.  Very capable, honest as they come, a nice guy, and reasonable charges.

Dear @halcro  : """  WHY we are able to hear such differences between cartridges, tonearms, turntables, drive-systems, solid state vs vacuum tube.....should make it obvious that we are in the hands of ’Artists’, ’Creators’..."""

""""  This state of affairs has not existed in ’Analogue Audio’ for 30 years and the elder masters and craftsmen have virtually all disappeared together with the vast data-banks they had assembled within their mega-billion $ companies.
The result has been, that the recent resurgence of ’Analogue Audio’ has inevitably led to ’self-taught’, under-educated and inexperienced ’newbies’ entering the industry to fill the vacuum.
Their sole contribution to the ’Art/Science’ of cartridge, tonearm and turntable design is ’technology’ 🙏
They believe that everything can be improved by the advancements in materials science, computers, lasers, 3D printing, CNC machining, chemistry etc.

They are mistaken.....!
And so are all the gullible, innocent followers of most of the new analogue products launched over the last 15 years. """"


I think that when you posted  that dayyou wake up very " romantic " and yes  about vintage analog rig there is " romanticism " around it.

Look, your tonearm that comes from the Cobra one really is about computer software " technology " . Its shape has nothing to do with that art you mentioned. In its site you can read:


""""" 

 A complex shape and choice of materials demonstrates a departure from the norm in the commercially available alternatives.

Just as Caliburn, the turntable, revolutionised turntable design by use of FEA software and shape optimisation, so too Continuum Audio Laboratories has used the same software technology to derive the new shape and performance parameters of the potent Cobra tonearm.  """""

When you posted this :  "  innocent followers of most..."

You forgot to mention: " me included " because you owned TW TT, ZYX , Da Vinci and other  items coming from " mistaken " designers/manufacturers.

Could you try to tell us what's wrong with the Ortofon A95 or the Xquisite or Etsuro or Lyra Etna Lambda cartridges and many today " mistaken " designs? or what's wrong with Kuzma 4 point, SME 5, Reed, etc, etc. tonearms? or what's wrong with the @jtinn DD Wave Kinetics turntable?

Of that you can to follow living in the " past " because is what you enjoy through your listening sessions butevery hting in erth is moving on at each " second " and normally for the better ( sometimes is not. ).

Like you I love MUSIC and certainly LPs too but from some time now digital is a superior alternative. Like it or not you can't stop " mistaken " digital technology ( with out that your tonearm just does not existed. ).

I enjoy both alternatives and if you know how to use technology is always welcomed and that's what all those today " mistaken " designers/manufacturers are doing day after day.

You can live sticked to your " art " when all the audio world ( not only analog rig but electronics and the like. ) is MOVE ON in favor of MUSIC.

As you all these is only my opinion, I respect yours.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Chakster, if by VdH, you mean Van den Hul: I have been sending my cartridges to him for 25 years minimum. I’m a “normal” person (if I put aside the fact that I’m an audiophile) and I speak to people there, get emails back and forth...

When you’ve been sending your cartridges to him 20-25 years ego it was way before internet communication became worldwide standard and a big part of our life.

It’s obvious that you build your personal relations with Mr. Van den Hul in 20th century, now it’s 21st century :) You became his customer long time ago and all you need is to ask him by email when you need his help, because you’re his customer for 25 years. This is fine, I like it!

BUT when people like me would like to contact him it’s impossible! Customers can do that ONLY via his distributors. When I asked local VdH distributor about rebuild/retip they did not even replied to my request! I am much closer to Netherlands than you, but I have to ask distributors according to VdH sales/service policy.

I doubt he proceed with rebuild/retip by his own nowadays, with exception made for his long time customers (or his own products) and his distributor will definitely add his margin to the final price for service @unreceivedogma

When I asked local VdH distributor about rebuild/retip they did not even replied to my request!

Better this way ... maybe you saved your cartridge!

I would never send a cartridge to VDH first of all because he has the habit of signing by engraving with electric pen on the body all the cartridges that pass through his hands without the authorization of the customer and this is very irritating as well as indelibly ruining the virginity of the bodywork, second because in the 80s my brother sent a Nakamichi MC 1000 to replace the stylus and the cantilever and came back with a terrible job, basically a graft with a lump of glue to join the two parts that not even the worst retipped could do; moreover he has pasted personalized stickers on the whole original box and on the front of the cartridge, going to ruin the support if it were necessary to remove them.
I have read of other poorly executed works on the cartridges of the owners who later complained and this made me reflect that not all the cartridges that pass through his hands are perfect; I have several things to write but I prefer to stop here.
No no no I'm sorry ... I don't trust this character at all in the way he works, neither he nor his assistants, probably other owners are more fortunate.

@rauliruegas, Thanx, I thought there must be a reason so many top manufacturers would use boron rod aside from a nice flat end to glue a stylus too and index it correctly.
I had a Talisman S for years. I liked it a lot. It was small and light, tracked super well and imaged nicely. It was a little thin sounding overall in my system. Eventually a wire broke inside and one channel went dead. It was replaced by a Grado Statement. 

The glue being used is probably softened by certain solvents. As an example ethanol will slowly dissolve epoxy. Water is no danger. In a pint of distilled water add two drops of J+J's Baby Shampoo. This works great as a stylus/cantilever cleaner and will not damage the glue. Glued on styli are tough enough to handle routine use just fine. They are not as tough as pressed in styli but there is considerably less mass were it counts. I did have the stylus off a Clearaudio Charisma vaporize not long ago but it was brand new and was replaced instantly by the importer Musical Surroundings. The replacement has been fine. You definitely do not want to drop or fumble the tonearm. I've always cued by hand but I think that is going to change. Schroder arms do not come with tonearm rests. Mr Schroder believes in avoiding anything not totally necessary hanging off his arms. He believes they resonate. I always lock my arms in place when I work on the cartridge. You can't work on an arm floating around, dangerous. So I made a cocobolo tonearm rest that will be attached to the Sota's plinth which I have been lead to believe I will have in two weeks or construction will start in two weeks, not clear:-( 

In December I will be going to NYC for the audio show. On the way down I plan on stopping at Soundsmith to hear the Strain Gauge. I will try and get an answer from Mr Ledermann why he does not use a diamond cantilever. His best cartridges use ruby and cactus spines. 

bestgrooove, that is interesting to hear about your experience with VDH.
Just in looking at pictures of his cartridges I always thought they looked amateurish. What you are saying does not surprise me at all but there are some people who swear by his work. I would never buy one because the workmanship is not up to the standards other manufacturers use. AHH, "but it is handmade!" I've got news for everyone, all cartridges are hand made. AHH, "but not by VDH himself!" I would rather have my cartridge built by a 26 year old woman with eagle eyes and rock steady hands. I'm 67 and I would never try to assemble a cartridge now. I can place sutures but I have to use one hand to steady the other. Working under a microscope would be a real mess. 

@mijostyn

....and VDH cartridges also very expensive or at the top ordered to the shopkeeper "new" that arrive with the cantilever not in axis or with channels umbalanced .....do we want to discuss quality controls? Bahhhhh.

Better to spread a veil of pity, so as not to write worse.

Dear @best-groove : " with electric pen on the body all the cartridges that pass through his hands..."

Certainly not all. VDH fixed around 10-12 non VDH cartridges with success and only on one of them used an easy to take out stiker. VDH fixed to me and other two gentlemans an almost new EPC100C MK4 cartridges that I don’t knew was a reference for him and still uses.

Is it the best re-tipper out there or the best alternative? maybe not today there are several very good re-tippers but VDH makes a good job in a decent time and not so expensive as some of the other re-tippers.
In the other side nothing is perfect in the audio world that sometimes happens what your brother experienced.

"" do we want to discuss quality controls? "" .

  Come on, sometimes even from new top of the line LOMC " things " happens like whe the Anna just appeared in the market. Obviously Ortofon took care of the owners and fixed one for all the " problem " with the next Anna samples.
But rigth in this thread mijostyn posted what happened to him with a new Clearaudio and I remember very well that been at the place of a very good friend in a trip to houston he had mounted in his Rockpot rig a Lyra Titan i  and when the cartridge started to track the first LP we detected that something was wrong because we were listened some kind of music/sound but totally wrong, then after a while and checking every where we took in count that the Titan i had not the stylus tip and I  saked him how many hour of play had that cartridge and he told me around 200 hours.

Btw, normally I don’t send to any re-tipper a top of the line recent LOMC cartridge but to the manufacturer for a change by.

R.

Certainly not all. VDH fixed around 10-12 non VDH cartridges with success and only on one of them used an easy to take out stiker.

have you checked well with a magnifying glass if he has applied his signature on your cartridges?

Give me the time I take a macro photo on a head that I bought from a friend; my friend (just for a check before sell) have send the Mr. VdH the cartridge and have applied the goddamn signature of him.

At first I did not notice it then inspecting it well I discovered that he had signed this cartridge as well, but by now it was too late and I had already paid.

@rauliruegas

Here look what he did, he ruined an Audioquest AQ 7000 worth over 3000 $ in my country by putting his damn signature on it without authorization.
If I had been in the friend who sent her for a check I would have sued VdH for damages without thinking for a moment; this kind of thing makes me terribly pissed off.

https://i.postimg.cc/PrdMcY9H/P1010882.jpg

Dear @halcro : I think that as me you try that your system could play at its best and that’s why time to time we audiophiles made some kind of " improvements/up-date " that normally ( not always. ) are for the better.

I don’t know your speakers driver signature in your custom speakers you own but what I know very well is with which quality levels performs almost all ( by first hand experiences. ) fancy/expensive capacitors ( including Duelund that I owned. ) against the deep humble caps that an audiophile never turn around its eyes for a sigth and this including me.

Well, not many time ago I , just for fun, turn around my eyes to Wima caps ( a true industry/every where standard, Vishay , Kemet. ) along these 2 last caps.

Just for fun test in your tweeter ( easy to unsolder/solder job. ) the Wima FKP 1 . Its higher capacitance is 4.7 uf so you can choose a couple of FKP 1: 3.3+2.2 or 4.7+1.0 . Caps in parallel works great.

Do it a favor and test it before to think you are not " crazy or foolish " to do it. After 20 hours of play you can make a serious listening tests.

You need to invest a lot less money " ridiculous money " for the 4 ( even 8 to have two alternatives for those 5.6uf. ) Wima caps than what 1 Duelund set you back.
Btw, I think the other cap in your speakers has a 40uf capacitance and for this one I recomended the Wima MKP 10 ( 47uf higher capacitance. ) where you need here too a couple of caps to run in parallel.

Halcro when I tested for the first time I orderd the caps for tweeters and mid range and I tested almost at the same time. You can read the whole experiences in my capacitor thread under tech-talk Agon forum.

You can’t go wrong or lost anything about because if you don’t like it just return to Duelund and if you like it then: good.

R.

The lower Wima tolerance is 5%. Don't worry about no single cap ( and I bougth a lot of ones. ) of those models measured higher than 1.5% tolerance, normally at 1% or lower.

Here look what he did, he ruined an Audioquest AQ 7000 worth over 3000 $ in my country by putting his damn signature on it without authorization.
If I had been in the friend who sent her for a check I would have sued VdH for damages without thinking for a moment; this kind of thing makes me terribly pissed off.

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No he didn't you plonker.
He repaired a broken cartridge.

If you didn't want vdh to sign his work, then you should have sent the cartridge back to the manufacturer for repair.

Van den hul's work in my experience ( 35 years ) is superb.

As far as I know he is the only person to succesfully repair the super rare Technics EPC100 cartridges.

The best rebuilt Koetsu Onyx Gold I have ever heard was one done by van den hul - and I have had north of 40 Koetsu's rebuilt ( both stone bodied and wood ) by either van den hul or the orginal Garrott Bros.

Furthermore I have never known van den hul refuse to redo any work that wsn't up to scratch - his after sales service & support is superb.

He repaired a broken cartridge.

If you didn't want vdh to sign his work, then you should have sent the cartridge back to the manufacturer for repair.

The friend reported that it was sent to VDH just for a simple check as it had stood still in its packaging for years and did not want to have any problems for after sale.
I bought it some time later; I'm not the one who decided to send it to VDH .... I wouldn't send him anything even if he were the only cartridge repairer on the planet.

Van den hul’s work in my experience ( 35 years ) is superb.

Better this way, it is right that there are also satisfied fans; here I hope that only the lived experiences will be brought back, not the saloon chatter.

@dover , 40 Koetsu's? Jimminy Crickets you are a sucker for crappy cartridges and how on gods green earth do you wear out cartridges that fast. That would be at a rate of close to one cartridge every year since Koestu started. Maybe you buy broken ones and have them rebuilt for sale? 

@mijostyn 
I was a high end distributor and had a retail shop. And no, I am not in the business of reselling anything, but I still help out many of my old customers.

Dear @best-groove : I seen what you said through the 7000 photo.

I really did not check with care about my fixed vintage cartridges where some of them comes with " plastic " body.

Btw, I owned the 7000 Fe5 and truly good quality performer. Scan-Tech made it those Audioquest models under Audioquest very specific targets.

R.

Dear friends and halcro : For those that could ve interested to test and have some fun with those Wima/Kemet caps on speaker crossovers or electronics this is the thread that I opened looking for experienced gentlemans help and was through the thread time where I ( again )  going against all the audiophile " rules " and advises of those experienced gentlemans discovered for what for me was a great " surprise " ( for say the least. ) and the best lesson in my audio life.

Can this cap " excercise " works for you? I don't know for sure but I don't " see " why not.

The ones of you that decide to try the cap test please read carefully the thread title ( we are not looking for some kind of " color or something similar of what we own but a " dead neutral " caps. ) before have a conclusion about and give those 20-40 hours to have serious listening sessions: 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/best-harmless-signatureless-speakers-capacitors


R.

Scan-Tech made it those Audioquest models under Audioquest very specific targets.

@ rauliruegas  Exactly

I have read through this thread and been gathering information on Cantilever Materials that I do not usually consider.
There has been points made that I will need to spend more time with and see where they take me.
According to information within this thread Audio Technica have in the Past used a Gold Plated Boron Tube for a Cantilever.
Today on certain AT cartridges, they are using a Gold Plated Boron Rod.
The Marketing claims this is an improved damping design.

Is there any thoughts on the benefits of a Gold Plated Boron Rod in place of a Boron Rod when used as cantilever. 
  

All these cartridges have 3 things in common....

• Koetsu Urushi
• Symphonic Line RG Gold LO
• Lyra Helikon
• Lyra Titan i
• Lyra Atlas
• Clearaudio Concerto
• Clearaudio Insider Gold
• Dynavector XV-1S
• ZYX UNIverse

1. They were all expensive current-model LOMC cartridges which I’ve owned over the last 40 years
   
2. They all have Boron Cantilevers
3. They all no longer exist in my System

I’ve also had one or two MM cartridges with Boron Cantilevers like the Technics EPC-100C Mk3.
It also no longer exists in my System......🙏

There are many audiophiles who claim to clearly hear the differences between MC and MM cartridges.....I’m not one of those 🤔

There are many audiophiles who will only praise the virtues of exotic-profile Line-Contact type styli...I’m almost in that ’camp’ but am not dogmatic 🤗

I never have been able to listen to anything ’Digital’....even digitally recorded/produced/mastered/mixed VINYL RECORDS generally leave me unmoved 😢

And I have never been ’entranced’ by ANY cartridges with Boron Cantilevers 🥱

The majority (over 20) of my cartridge collection have Beryllium Cantilevers. Aluminium Cantilevers make up the next highest number whilst Sapphire, Ruby, Diamond and exotic composites make up the numbers.
 
Just saying........🙃

whilst Sapphire, Ruby, Diamond and exotic composites make up the numbers.

you are worse than a woman who loves rings with these stones!  ha ha haaa

Dear Halcro, as you know we agree on many things, but a 'ban on boron'? I haven't heard any of the ones you mention, but this is rather too categorical. Van den Hul Colibri, Transfiguration Orpheus & Proteus and Ortofon A95 all have boron cantilevers and they're some of the best cartridges I ever heard. Be careful what you (don't) wish for....

@halcro , not that your opinion does not count but, the vast majority of cartridge manufacturers prefer boron rod cantilevers. In a competitive market were top performance counts there must be a reason for this. Who knows, It might just be that boron rods are more available. Diamond comes up once in a while but does not gain much traction for whatever reason. It is significantly heavier than boron which is going to cut high frequency performance and lower the resonance point of the cantilever and it's suspension perhaps creating a high frequency peak which some people might like. 
Right now I have two cartridges. One has a boron cantilever the other a ruby cantilever. The boron is MM and the ruby is MI. 

@halcro 

All these cartridges have 3 things in common....

• Koetsu Urushi
• Symphonic Line RG Gold LO
• Lyra Helikon
• Lyra Titan i
• Lyra Atlas
• Clearaudio Concerto
• Clearaudio Insider Gold
• Dynavector XV-1S
• ZYX UNIverse

1. They were all expensive current-model LOMC cartridges which I’ve owned over the last 40 years
   
2. They all have Boron Cantilevers
3. They all no longer exist in my System

Halcro, with all due respect, I think you could have gone about the  search for the ultimate cartridge in a different way. If you had bought a few cases of Grange Hermitage, for serious listening, you might have avoided the merry-go-round ( and had some very pleasant listening experiences ).

Having said that I wouldn't have bought any of those cartridges exept for the Urushi for Ravel La Valse, and the Lyra Titan i for speed and precision. I wouldn't necessarily ascribe the sound of any of these specifically to the boron cantilever.

There are many audiophiles who claim to clearly hear the differences between MC and MM cartridges.....I’m not one of those 🤔

We have a phrase here in NZ - yeah right.

There are many audiophiles who will only praise the virtues of exotic-profile Line-Contact type styli...I’m almost in that ’camp’ but am not dogmatic 🤗

The only one I have a complete aversion to is the shibata - I have found every shibata tipped cartridge I have heard to be brittle - much prefer micro ridge of the exotic tips.