Who needs a Diamond Cantilever...? 💍

Still no volunteers on the price of said Sony cart?

from $500 to $2500 depends on condition

@elizabeth 

The Dynavector Ruby 23 had a solid Ruby cantilever, The Dynavectror 17D3 has a solid diamond one. They originally cost $700, I bought my last one for $950. I also have a nice Ruby 23 (long discontinued)

Same here, but my Dyna is 17D2 mkII (Micro Reach) and the Ruby is 23RS MR (Micro Reach). Slightly different models than yours, but these are the most reasonably priced cartridges on the used market, including the one with Diamond cantilever. The price for them is cheaper or very close to re-tipping cost today, i would buy another cartridge instead of retip. Those Dyna are great carts! 

P.S. I've heard Sony XL-55 with Boron cantilever and did not like it at all. But even this Sony is impossible to repair, because the cartridge body is sealed. I have no interest in Sony cartridges, except for MM, the XL-50 MM with Boron Pipe cantilever is very nice and still cheap. 

 

I’ve heard Sony XL-55 with Boron cantilever and did not like it at all.

@halcro

my mistake, but anyway a sample of my ex flat mate was not impressive against my Zyx Airy III at that time, compared on my EPA-100

the one i like better is Sony XL-50 MM with Boron Pipe cantilever, i have it NOS, very nice for the money. Have you tried ?

Neither the Sony XL-55 nor XL-88 (in standard form) had Boron cantilevers.

You’re right. So it was even more compicated cantilever on the Sony XL-55 MC sample i did not like :)) The cantilever on XL-55 MC was "A triple-layer carbon clad cantilever using a special light alloy is used." The next one on PRO model was "A triple-structure carbon clad cantilever using beryllium / aluminum / carbon fiber is used. " But i never tried a PRO version. On XL-88 we can see the same "Triple cladding of beryllium / aluminum / carbon fiber is used to achieve high rigidity and light weight." And on your XL-88D we have Gemstone "cantilever integrated super elliptical diamond needle". On all models only elliptical tip :((

150K Yen =$714 =$2223 (today)

7500 DM =$4400 =$13700 (today)

Actually the price for XL-88D in the 80’s was 150 000 YEN as you can see here.
(Same price for Dynavector KARAT Nova 13D), very expensive for its time, but not as much as you think.

I don’t know why do you think the price was 7500 DM ($4400) in the 80’s ? In Japan the price for XL-88D was just 150 000 YEN ($714) in the 80s, not $4400, i don’t think the difference between Japan and German retailers is so big, can’t be true!

I think you mixed up two different models, there was a regular XL-88D and limited edition version that was made in very small quantity! J.Carr has mentioned this mega rare model on a’gon years ago. I think that model was expensive, but not the XL-88D that you have.

@edgewear

I took my revenge last week, winning an auction for the Victor MC-L1000, another of those classic cartridges I simply must hear.

I remember another comment from J.Carr who said the MC-L10 is the most balanced between 3 direct couple type from Victor. It is also the most reasonably priced one (imo). I have MC-1 and MC-L10 and like them very much on Victor and Sony tonearms. It is hard to find a working sample, even for the most expensive MC-L1000 one channel malfunction is a common problem.

Do you know who can fix them ?

There is however one other kind of ’’between’’ which is never
mentioned. The so called ’’joint pipe’’ on which also the coils and
tension wire are fastened. This part is usually made from aluminum.
By many carts one can see this part just behind the cantilever.

Yep. I can only illustrate it with a picture made with another cartridge, but the structure of the cantilever is the same as Sony, the difference is Sapphire instead of diamond, but the "joint pipe" is just like this.

While SONY has this very long joint pipe, some other cartridges with Diamond cantilever like Dynavector comes with very short joint pipe (more like a collar) and diamond cantilever is much shorter.

We’re off topic as always.
So for Victor Direct Couple MC please use this thread, you can find all information right there including Carr’s comments. To make it short: if any of them is working then it is very nice cartridge!

@best-groove

Cartridgelab Italy

How many Victor Direct Couple MC did you fix with him ?
Even Mr. Peter Ledermann (SoundSmith) told me it’s not guaranteed and more like a project, so you never know is it possible to fix or not. I have a few non working samples, one with one channel, another one is dead.

A tiny "printed coil" located right on top of the cantilever, very close to the stylus. Everything is very fragile with this cartridge and repair is difficult. It is not like any conventional cartridge.

@nandric

My dear Slavic brother, ’’big’’, ’’long’’ etc. descriptions are logical
not ’’sound’’. The reason is that presupposed comparisons
are described as properties of objects. Being ’’long in Holland’’
means something totally different than being ’’long in Greece or
Italy’’. I was long in Serbia but am shorter in Holland. I.e. relational
sentences can’t be described with ’’subject is predicate ’’ form.
You have also try the same ’’method’’ with ’’little’’ suggesting that
very little glue between the stylus and cantilever is as ’’good’’
as no glue at all. I love you but the truth even more . The same
stated Aristoteles about Plato: ’’amicus Plato sed veritas amicitat’’.
Does ’’very short pipe’’ mean no pipe at all?

no worries, i have all types of cantilevers with all kinds of different combinations such as joint pipe vs. no joint pipe; glue vs. no glue ... etc. Heard it all before, just tried to help a bit to the readers with more images displayed the difference even in the same type from different manufacturers/designers.

@edgewear read this about direct couple carts

In my opinion it is much easier to compare different cantilevers on MM or MI cartridge inserts. In this situation the generator is the same, the difference is only a cantilever (sometimes stylus profile too). This is the reason why i like manufacturers who gave their customers almost all types of cantilevers to choose. Grace gave that option for advanced models, so anyone can try Aluminum, Beryllium, Boron, Sapphire, Ruby and even Ceramic cantilevers on the same cartridge. I think this is such a great option for curious people.

The situation is different with MC cartridges, but in addition to @nandric post above i would like to remind everyone that modern Miyajima MC cartridges are all comes with Aluminum cantilevers, even an exotic Madake cantilever is a mix of aluminum pipe and rare bamboo. The Miyajima-San claimed that his choice of cantilever material is based on actual sound of his cartridges and different cantilevers does not improved the sound. You will not find any Boron in Miyajima cartridges. I think the goal is patented Cross-Ring method which makes those cartridges so unique and highly regarded. Cartridge designeds mentioned by Nandric are all retired or dead, but Miyajima-San is alive and still making outstanding LOMC cartridges with Aluminum cantilever.

Well, the SPU is an exception because it is oldschool design invented when dinosaurs were alive on the planet earth. 

@nandric I have no idea who is Reto Andreoli (and our Dertonarm as a cartridge designer), but i respect japanese school of cartridge design from the masters like Takeda and Ikeda, at least i own some of their best cartridges. And yes, all with aluminum cantilever. Takeda’s last work was for 47 Labs before he retired. I don’t think Ikeda (R.I.P.) personally made any cartridges at his age in the past 10 years or so. But i am waiting for Ikeda IT-345 tonearm soon for the Miyajima Kansui cartridge (also with aluminum cantilever).

So the one piece diamond/stylus cantilever combo on Sony XL88D can't be repaired, because this unique type of cantilever is not available anymore. But it can't be even re-tipped because the stylus and cantilever is one piece of gemstone. The life span of the Elliptical stylus is 600 hrs ? Actually Sony called it "Super Elliptical", so maybe a bit more. But what's then ? 

@gallus
 I had SONY PUA-7 tonearm, the original one that was for sale only as a separate unit in the box, not those cheap version people removing from Sony turntables to sell as "PUA-7" on ebay often. 

I must say the original PUA-7 is outstanding tonearm in terms on usability and build quality, very few tonearms can compete with PUA-7 in this aspect. My advice for those who're looking for PUA-7 is to buy ONLY stand alone unit like this. The armlift is the best ever, much better than anything i have tried. VTA of the fly, very nice anti-skating mechanism, so easy to use. There must be a DIN connector, cheaper version does not have it. The price even for stand alone version is very nice only if you can find it. However, It terms of sound quality there are better vintage tonearms from the same era, but they are normally much more expensive than PUA-7. Never tried the PUA-9. 

I was not impressed by the SONY MC cartridges such as XL-55, there are more better LOMC cartridges from different manufacturers (vintage and new), but i like their MM XL-50 with Boron Pipe cantilever and still have it (mint on dedicated sony headshell). 

@best-groove you have to tell me your email address, i already asked a new owner of my pua-7 about a copy for you and he said he will be happy to help, but his scanner was broken. Anyway i want to forward your email to him, he does not read a'gon for a while. 

There is another model and only that model was so expensive, not your sample. J.Carr has mentioned that mega rare limited edition "Custom" only made in small quantities with a price tag like a popular german car, just like i said in the earlier posts here. 

Unfortunately the timing is all wrong for me at the moment, as I just took delivery of a Dynavector Karat Nova 13D. Yep, also diamond cantilever, but not a one piece cantilever/stylus assembly like the Sony. I don't know if it's down to the (very short) diamond cantilever or other design aspects, but it's in a totally different universe than my Karat Ruby 23RS. It sounds very smooth and relaxed, but with a sense of energy reserve just waiting to jump up on you. Which it most certainly does when the music calls for it.

This is the diamond cantilever of my ex Karat 17DS MicroReach, diamond cantilever length is 1.7mm, the 13D is even shorter (1.3mm). The design aspect explained in the interview with Dr.Tominari and here is the dynavector thread with more info.    

I have upgraded to Karat 17D2 and it's still in the box (NOS). 

The stylus cantilever assembly of the SONY is pretty much like ADC TRX II with very long metal collar behind the cantilever, ADC however is only a sapphire, but the stylus tip mounting style is state of the art.  

Hi @edgewear 
Yoshihisa Mori was close friends with Kanemori Takai, and after Mori left Sony, he was involved in a variety of projects, one of which would have been the creation of a cartridge production line inside Final.

FWIW, Final was originally formed by two brothers with the family name of Kitamura; I was friends with them before Takai-san acquired the brand and merged it with his own Takai Laboratory.

Due to Mori-san's friendship with Takai-san, and his high-ranking position within the Sony corporate organization, I believe that Mori was able to obtain special dispensation for Takai-san to use the XL-88D design and suitable components from Sony's parts-bins.

Since Sony by that time was so heavily focused on digital (eventually Mori became the head of Sony's SACD division, and came to be called "Mr. SACD"), the cartridge IP was no longer of much value to Sony.

As you write, the body is that of an XL-44 (the XL-55 looks similar but has a different finger-lift design, among other detail differences). Small scratches reveal the underlying plastic to be of a different color than the metal-blue surface, therefore the color was painted onto the plastic rather than being molded into it (as would have been done for real bespoke production).

The coils appears to be of the coreless figure-8 type, which was the final coil design that Mori-san settled on for its MC designs.

I can't comment about the damper choice, as this is not visible from the photos. However, the damper-to-cantilever matching is one of the key aspects which can make or break a cartridge's sound, and given the size and production volume of Sony's cartridges division, they would have possessed a range of different rubber compounds and shapes. Therefore it wouldn't be a surprise if Takai-san chose a different set of dampers to the XL-88D, and if so, the sound wouldn't have been the same.

Again as you write, the joint-pipe is long and the one-piece stylus-and-cantilever diamond section short on this sample, showing that this used the standard XL-88D configuration rather than following the extreme and costly Custom.

Finally, since the body is of the integrated-shell variety, this cartridge must be used with a universal-type tonearm. The universal headshell connector, although widely adopted for its convenience, has a number of fundamental design flaws will most likely limit the performance level that can be extracted from this cartridge.

Still, this could have been a very interesting purchase. The screwed-on copper top was most likely added to make working on it easier than the molded-and-glued-shut Sony originals.

Too bad the auction seems to have ended (wonder what it ultimately sold for).

kind regards, jonathan

Amazing! I've seen this cartridge before several times, but the full story is awesome. Thanks Jonathan. 

Daniel can solve the problems ....

Yeah @best-groove ......... Who is Daniel ?

Diamond is boring :)) Leave it for girls.

How about Synthobionic Cantilever used by Reto Luigi Andreoli who’s been trained by Garrott Brothers in Australia and later went on his own with Bluelectric brand in Switzerland. A few audiogonners have his Magic Diamond MC cartridge, but do you know about his MM cartridges with Synthobionic Cantilever?

As you can read below Streamliner MM models has unique SYNTHOBIONIC CANTILEVER! Pretended to be unbreakable. What??? Let’s have another look.

You need google chrome browser (or google translate) to read this review. You will not find another interview with Mr. Adreoli, but Russian reviewer asked his permission to add a bit from their email conversation into this review. Very interesting!

Synthobionic Cantilever is something more interesting than Diamond cantilever.

I will google translate it for you:)

Original article about Bluelectric cartridges is here:


“Cantilevers by Reto Adreoli are a different story altogether. He experimented with different materials, including exotic things like cactus needles, Belgian Shepherd’s whiskers, wood and epoxies with silk microfibers. The Shake Streamliner is a bionic-based cantilever made of synthetic material that has the beneficial properties of natural structures. It combines lightness, durability, rigidity and resistance to mechanical resonances. The silicone damper does not have an expiration date, the needle is nude diamond with advanced profile. The coils are wound by hand, this is also important.”


Shake Streamliner MM cartridge is custom made by Bluelectric for 9920 CHF which is more than $10k

Japanese can’t offer this type of unique SYNTHOBIONIC CANTILEVER cantilever anyway :)

I’m proud for Europe, Swiss made!



So some of you who blame me for collecting The best Vintage MM should know that Diamond, Boron, Ruby whatever you name it  ... is technology from the 70’s. 


If you are about innovative know-how design of the 21st century then try Synthobionic Cantilever :) 

It’s not funny Dover, because all your passage has nothing to do with unique cantilever used exclusively in Bluelectric MM cartridge that cost $10 000. And if you are so concerned about damper then his silicone damper will last forever, even if I will “re-sell” it to you 40 years later the properties of this damper will not change. This is what you want? The cost is only $10k today if Mr. Adreoli will accept your order, unfortunately his cartridges are not available from the dealers or shops. And if you can search and read about him you will understand his philosophy and his opinion about the whole high-end market today.


Regarding specific type of cantilever made in the 70’s I can assure you that I have them all (Diamond, Boron Pipe, Beryllium and even Ceramic Pipe you may never tried, it was Grace exclusive for MM). I really like them on specific models of cartridges.


Regarding suspension/damper condition on those vintage high-end cartridges: Do you think people are so stupid that they can’t define lowrider (cartridge) with softened suspension or a cartridge with stiff suspension? Or maybe they can’t measure compliance using a Hi-Fi News Test Record counting it from the actual tonearm/cartridge resonance figure? Or maybe people can’t send their cartridges for $30 inspection? Or maybe they can’t return a cartridge with bad suspension for full refund using their paypal buyers protection? Where are the feedbacks from the customers cheated by sellers of vintage carts with stiff of softened suspension? Maybe some negative threads on various forums? Or maybe it’s impossible to compare 2-3-4 samples of the same model to make sure what is good? Or maybe they can’t swap spare styli? Please tell me what’s the point to lie about cartridge condition (including suspension condition)? Only retippers capitalize on service (still an option for the buyer).

Save your stories about your luxury gear from Final Audio for your old rich friends, I am not interested in overpriced audio gear. This is not my style of living, but music is very important part of my life.

I do not re-sell cartridges, I collect them, I buy them!

And I’m looking for exceptionally good cartridges only for a reason, blast from the past (not interested in vintage junk).


But posting all the BS could you please at least provide a link to my sales list or online shop or whatever? Or maybe my current ebay or ukam listing with any cartridge for sale or something like that? May you can provide my sales score using buyers feedbacks on my ebay or ukam? I did not sell anything to you.

Bit I’ll tell you once again that I sell whatever I want to sell from my own collection only if I wish to, just like any other person in this hobby. I’ve been doing the same with my rare records from my own collection for a long time. This is a natural way to survive in this expensive hobby if you are not rich. It’s hard to understand for you, because as an ex hi-end dealer you’ve been able to buy with 30-50% discount about 40 years ago and capitalize on it. But luckily I am not at the age of grandfather, so the stuff from the 70’s wasn’t available for me, not only because I was born in the 70’s, but also because I was born in Russia. Modern high-end market is madness, this is why music lovers and audio enthusiasts are happy with vintage gear (cartridges, speakers , tubes ...).

I’m not “pushing” anything, even if your opinion is different (why it should be the same as mine?) you are free to buy whatever you want and tell everyone what exactly do you like and why. I can compare cartridges in my system and I posted a lot about this system with images. I have no idea about your system, but for some reason I think it’s not a low power amps with high efficient speakers like mine, also completely different music I guess. I don't need anyone telling me about a sound of turntable drive itself, some audiophiles are sick. 

I’m not sure what are you trying to prove me?
I have 20-30 years ahead to improve my system, but you guys are already retired, glad you are not broke at your age and still thinking about the sound.

I remember we discussed his phono stage long time ago on audiogon.

But I have mentioned him in this thread ONLY because of his innovative cantilever. Some people have no sense of humor, a cartridge for $10k is nonsense (no matter what it is). But it is well suited in the DIAMOND thread.

P.S. I am quite happy with a cartridge made by people who teached him in Australia back in the day. I think I paid no more than $200 for original Garrott P77 and it was so sweet on Reed 3p.

I still have a Glanz MFG61 moving flux, JVC X1 MM and a few others in the box - I never listen to them, any decent LOMC for around $1500 blitzes them.

You never listen to them, but you think ....
I think Halcro (the OP) was very impressed by Victor MM cartridges and Steve Dobbins praised Glanz 61. I believe both of them were able to compare those cartridges to some of the best LOMC out there.

Raul, that is sort of a wishy-washy answer. There are quality levels in all categories. My point is there are MM and MI cartridges that out perform some LOMC cartridges.

Absolutely, no questions about it.

I’ll tell you more: there are MM cartridges that outperform MI or IM cartridges.

Also LOMC cartridges are different, some of them are too bad, some of them are amazing.

We can only say what we like in our systems with our gear.

For me it’s important to have all types of cartridges ready to use when I’m in the mood for MM, MI or MC. Using high quality cartridges, tonearms and phono stages I want to switch from one to another, because at certain mood I prefer one type of another. And there is no absolute for me. Two turntables and 4 tonearms are always in my system.

At the moment two different Fidelity-Research tonearms (64fx and 64s) and cartridges (fr7f and fr7fz) are battling in my system with 3 different phono stages (one is current-injection type) with additional LUX SUT and ZYX Headamp. Each has it’s own advantages, but they are all great, just slightly different flavor. My First Watt buffer preamp was off for a year or so and yesterday I put it back to compare to my bigger Pass Labs preamp. When another amp from my wantlist has arrives (Red Wine Audio 30.2) I put it in my main system and I was so happy about the sound, it’s battery powered amp in my system that never gets hot like my Yamamoto with nearly 100 y.o. RCA Globe tubes, or First Watt power amp ... those are super heaters.

In my opinion it’s nice to change the sound, it’s a sort of re-freshness.
Cartridge swap is always a good idea in this situation. If I prefer one variant today it’s not necessary that I will prefer it tomorrow. It’s important to have a choice, this is why I don’t understand people who can speak about one particular cartridge (or cartridge type) as an absolute best.

I think it’s the wrong thread to discuss MC vs. MM again...

Cartridge is not a girlfriend (not a wife), so you can have as many as you wish at the same time if you like them.



It’s funny how some people trying to find a cartridge that combines everything in one (normally for insane price), they want “the best of the best” and they’re ready to pay their dues.


They can deny their previous love, just like after divorce, pretending their next relations is better and will last forever, but then ... oops ... another love affair and someone lost his mind.


And he thought brunettes are better, but once he met blonde and she blew his mind away! She’s so different, but they are together for much longer... Life in harmony even at the shelter.


His ex girlfriend was looking for very special treatment, luxury life and money, and finally left him.


Discussion about MC vs. MM is like discussion about Brunettes vs. Blondes.

What is good enough for YOU is the most important. Someone else opinion is irrelevant!

For some people a $10k - 30k MC cartridge is just a part of their luxury life, just another disposable unit with 3000hrs life span, whatever. But the level of distortion is a bit lower at this price :)) Try to tell it to the musicians who recorded those records in the studio, it will be cheaper to hire the whole band to perform live several times with the whole studio PA rented (just infront of you).

I wonder if Namiki or whoever still makes cantilevers/styli are delivering to the standard that was being delivered back in the mid 80’s. Our audio market is so miniscule in the scheme of things.

In analog era nearly all those exotic cantilevers were widely used in MM and MI design too, none of them used today even in astronomically priced MC. We’re in the digital era where analog is something exotic, for audiophiles it is also must be expensive by default (this is marketing). I think this is the main difference between 70s/80s and 2021.

However, some of those high quality cartridges were not cheap in the 70s/80s, but vinyl was the main media format for all. Industry made so many amazing cartridges back then so we could still buy them (NOS or almost unused).

When MM thread was so popular on audiogon many forgotten models were discovered by enthusiasts and audiophiles, the goal was the price vs. performance. 20 years ago with zero interest from the majority of audiophiles to vintage high-end MM or MC the prices were funny, almost nothing, something like $50-250 for amazing cartridges.

Some of those funny priced cartridges from the late 70’s - early 80s were deadstock (unused) samples with Berylliym, Ruby, Sapphire, Boron Pipe, Ceramic Pipe and even Diamond cantilevers. Always Nude Diamond and often the best profiles like MicroRidge, MicroLine, Parabolic ... you name it. Even aluminum cantilever was completely different from what the market can offer today. Same about tonearms from that era and turntables (imo).

For younger generation the only chance to buy something exceptionally good without paying too much is to study and learn what was the best and why! Next step is to find it in perfect condition. The process is interesting, but not for everyone.

The industry today will not offer anything close for affordable price, the industry will offer their best for their target audience - rich audiophiles (usually for insane price).

There are many superior things in those old designs comparing to the new in the same price category made today.

Superior sound quality, after all, is the reason why people like the OP and others still looking for the best from the past! And they can identify where is the real gem or total junk.

if you are drilling with laser hole usually it’s round

I don’t think so.

This is a proper construction of of Boron Pipe cantilever and Nude Stylus assemble.

A tip mounting hole made using a laser beam. This is pretty much the same that another Japanese company made with Grace LEVEL II but with at least one serious advantage over the Technics. The difference is the type of the low mass stylus tip. When you comparing Elliptical with MicroRidge you know that Elliptical simply can’t win. Furthermore, type of the cantilever and the whole moving mass is very important according to this Technics research: "Somewhere in the high frequencies, every cartridge has an undesirable resonance point. Undesirable because there the frequency response curve climbs a sudden peak. If that peak is in the audible range, your records sound not as intended. That resonance frequency is determined by the total effective moving mass of the vibrating system - the summed masses of the diamond stylus and, most importantly, the cantilever and magnet, etc. To shift that harmful resonance frequency up into the high supersonics, the effective moving mass must be reduced to the lowest possible minimum. Also, too much effective moving mass increases the mechanical impedance, thereby negatively affecting the cartridge’s tracing ability." Cartridges i am talking about are both have very low moving mass and similar exotic hollow pipe cantilevers. But Grace LEVEL II has much better suspension/damper compared to Technics mk4 (100 or 205 series). Also much better LC-OFC coil wire utilized in LEVEL II model, this is RUBY EXP model.

This is Sapphire Astrion cantilever of ADC.
This is Beryllium cantilever of Victor X1II.
This is Titanium Pipe of Victor X1IIE
This is Boron Pipe of Technics 205c mk4
This is RUBY cantilever of Dynavector
This is Diamond cantilever of Dynavector

Check my linked files before they are gone.

All images taken by myself using my own carts.

The way the vintage cantilever and stylus mounted together is different from almost anything new.

Chakster it's funny but the biggest blob of glue is on Technics.

This is re-tipped boron rod and this is genuine boron pipe. 
The Technics original stylus is the tallest one 

Dave, current Boron ROD and vintage Boron PIPE are completely different things. You’re right that re-tipped version is new, but original version is Boron Pipe (hollow pipe with laser mounted tip through the pipe). Boron PIPE no longer available, just like Beryllium (no longer available). Those two are common versions used for the best cartridges in the past, but not today! Read Dover's post. 

@intactaudio

I posted before, but look again, those are vintage:

This is Sapphire Astrion cantilever of ADC.
This is Beryllium cantilever of Victor X1II.
This is Titanium Pipe of Victor X1IIE
This is Boron Pipe of Technics 205c mk4
This is RUBY cantilever of Dynavector
This is Diamond cantilever of Dynavector

Aside from the one piece diamond cantilever/tip combo, what historical method of mounting a diamond to a cantilever is no longer available today?

Modern method is normally a drop of glue on a rod type cantilevers around stylus tip. SoundSmith methos is a drop of glue in front of the cantilever. Same for Ortofon method.

As you know they can’t use a proper method like this anymore, because they don’t have Boron Pipe any longer. Since the Boron considered the most advanced type of the cantilever this this is where we have big difference between old vs. new methods.

This is old method, it’s Grace LEVEL II Boron Pipe / Micro Ridge.

Nowadays they might have titanium pipe or zirconia pipe, but not Boron Pipe.

Under a microscope, the namiki Sapphire cantilever/microridge combo is a thing of beauty but the "retipped" boron / microridge combo sounds substantially better in my experiences.

I am not trying to say what is better, this is a personal thing, I’m trying to show a difference on pictures.

But comparing same cart with different styli (genuine vs. re-cantilevered) the Boron Pipe was the best sounding and it was genuine. And Technics explained why.

My example is Technics because I can’t add any documents from Grace, Audio-Technica, Sony .... buy Boron Pipe was their choice too (along with Beryllium) for the most expensive models up to the late ’80s - early ’90s.

Your argument seems to be that boron pipe is no longer available. I agree.

Boron Pipe is lighter than Boron Rod, laser mounted stylus tip on Boron pipe is also lighter, the moving mass is lighter and this is important for a high-end cartridge. It is extremely important for MM or MI cartridges and their high frequency reproduction. 

Ceramic Pipe cantilever from Grace is no longer availabe, that was one of the rarest cantilever ever! 

Beryllium Pipe from Audio-Technica is not available, it was Gold-Plated.  

Beryllium cantilever from Victor is no longer available and it was quite unusual, look at the stylus. 

Also look at Titanium Pipe from Victor. 

The rest of your argument makes no sense.

So you ignored my point about Ortofon and SoundSmith cantilever systems with the diamond mounted not under the cantilever, but in front of the cantilever rod? 

If you are saying nobody nude mounts like your boron pipe example, namiki does it with zirconium tube.

Zicronia pipe is nowhere near Boron Pipe properties. My thread about Zirconia Pipe Cantilever is on audiogon since 2020 and people know nothing about this type of cantilever. Do you have any cartridge with Zirconia cantilever? 

I think titanium pipe may be still available, I'm not sure. 

Both Namiki and Ogura cut holes through their sapphire / ruby / diamond cantilevers to hold the diamond shaft prior to adhesive and while Namiki does only use glue for their Boron cantilevers Ogura has the typical mounting method used in all of your referenced pictures.

The diamond cantilever and stylus mentioned in this thread by OP is cut from one piece of diamond, this is unique method, no longer available. 

Sapphire or Ruby from Namiki are OK (not identical to old Sapphire or Ruby though). But look at SoundSmith Ruby is you want to see something completely different from anything else.  

Enough said, when we discuss cantilevers I always think that people have no memory at all, it's been said so many times on audiogon. 

There is no image on your link, Dave. Maybe you can re-attach it. I have modern cartridges with Boron Rod (Phasemation for example) and I took some nice picture using my macro lens, so I know the method.

Some of my favorite MC cartridges are low compliance with aluminum cantilever (FR-7f, FR-7fz, Miyabi Standard, Miyabi MCA ... just to name a few).

But my favorite MM are often with Beryllium Pipe or Boron Pipe and I believe this is critical for high frequency extention to have a low moving mass and high compliance. Pipe is always lighter than Rod so the moving mass is lighter with Boron Pipe (or Beryllium pipe). Audio-Technica made gold-plated pipes, after Beryllium was restricted they could only continue with Boron Pipe, but not anymore! 

The only reason "to fix" Technics P100 mk4 cartridge is softened suspension and the only reason to justify a complete rebuild is to claim that "new cantilever is better" (of course). A working sample with a perfect suspension is almost impossible to find, so the buyer have no chance to hear the potential of this cartridge and must proceed with rebuild (new cantilever/stylus combo and new suspension) or stop using this cartridge after all because of the full collapse of the damper. One problem with rebuild: no one will do that, in the past it was VdH (the most expensive service). Normal people can’t contact Vdh directly like they can contact SoundSmith directly (who will refuse this job with this particular cart).

Anyway, if someone can hear a resonance of the cantilever by ears I am happy for this person, he has a perfect hearing abilities.

The rest is just academic research for those who interested.

Chakster, if by VdH, you mean Van den Hul: I have been sending my cartridges to him for 25 years minimum. I’m a “normal” person (if I put aside the fact that I’m an audiophile) and I speak to people there, get emails back and forth...

When you’ve been sending your cartridges to him 20-25 years ego it was way before internet communication became worldwide standard and a big part of our life.

It’s obvious that you build your personal relations with Mr. Van den Hul in 20th century, now it’s 21st century :) You became his customer long time ago and all you need is to ask him by email when you need his help, because you’re his customer for 25 years. This is fine, I like it!

BUT when people like me would like to contact him it’s impossible! Customers can do that ONLY via his distributors. When I asked local VdH distributor about rebuild/retip they did not even replied to my request! I am much closer to Netherlands than you, but I have to ask distributors according to VdH sales/service policy.

I doubt he proceed with rebuild/retip by his own nowadays, with exception made for his long time customers (or his own products) and his distributor will definitely add his margin to the final price for service @unreceivedogma