Hoping to pop up to Audio Vision soon
Which stereo amp to try under $30k
Having just made several upgrades to my system, it's now time for the amp. Given the number of amps in the 15-30k range, I'm guessing many of you have experiences with them. To get started, I'll tell you my (1) my guidance (2) my current list of options (3) My current setup. Looking forward to getting more options on my list, as I'd like to pull the trigger in about 2 months and need to start listening.
My Guidance
- Under $30k
- I need to be able to hear the amp before purchase, preferably at a local shop (SF Bay Area)
- New or used ok
- Large sound stage
- Bass
- More Bass... all the bass
- Very much prefer stereo to fit in my rack. I have small children and not enough room for monos.
- Prefer not tubes (already have a tube line stage - too hot for small children and don't fit in rack)
- I'm ok with a colored sound. Prefer musicality and realism over "accuracy" or "neutrality"
- Needs an absolute minimum of 150W based on how loud I listen
- 15/20A or something I can plug into a regular wall outlet
My Current List of options
- Luxman M900u (current top of list)
- Ayre VX-R Twenty
- Pass Labs XA160.8 (doesn't meet all of my guidance)
- Boulder 2160 (a little above budget)
- Audio Research 160S (doesn't meet all of my guidance)
My Current Setup
- AMG Viella Turbo Turntable w/ Koetsu Onyx Platinum Cartridge
- Boulder 508 Phono Stage
- Mytek Manhattan II DAC (next upgrade after the amp - maybe a dCS Bartok?)
- Audio Research Reference 6 line stage
- McIntosh MC452 power amplifier
- B&W 802D3 speakers
- AudioQuest and Nordost cabling or a Symposium Osiris rack
What I listen to: Anything from the 60s on vinyl, some things from the 70s on vinyl. A lot of large orchestral and jazz, also a fair amount of pop, from any decade, on vinyl and digital. Thanks for reading my long post! I'll keep this thread updated with amps I hear. Lots of great shops in the area. My two favorites are The Analog Room in Campbell and Music Lovers Audio in Oakland and SF.
My Guidance
- Under $30k
- I need to be able to hear the amp before purchase, preferably at a local shop (SF Bay Area)
- New or used ok
- Large sound stage
- Bass
- More Bass... all the bass
- Very much prefer stereo to fit in my rack. I have small children and not enough room for monos.
- Prefer not tubes (already have a tube line stage - too hot for small children and don't fit in rack)
- I'm ok with a colored sound. Prefer musicality and realism over "accuracy" or "neutrality"
- Needs an absolute minimum of 150W based on how loud I listen
- 15/20A or something I can plug into a regular wall outlet
My Current List of options
- Luxman M900u (current top of list)
- Ayre VX-R Twenty
- Pass Labs XA160.8 (doesn't meet all of my guidance)
- Boulder 2160 (a little above budget)
- Audio Research 160S (doesn't meet all of my guidance)
My Current Setup
- AMG Viella Turbo Turntable w/ Koetsu Onyx Platinum Cartridge
- Boulder 508 Phono Stage
- Mytek Manhattan II DAC (next upgrade after the amp - maybe a dCS Bartok?)
- Audio Research Reference 6 line stage
- McIntosh MC452 power amplifier
- B&W 802D3 speakers
- AudioQuest and Nordost cabling or a Symposium Osiris rack
What I listen to: Anything from the 60s on vinyl, some things from the 70s on vinyl. A lot of large orchestral and jazz, also a fair amount of pop, from any decade, on vinyl and digital. Thanks for reading my long post! I'll keep this thread updated with amps I hear. Lots of great shops in the area. My two favorites are The Analog Room in Campbell and Music Lovers Audio in Oakland and SF.
187 responses Add your response
Again, best of luck. Sometimes the goal remains elusive, and ultimately unobtainable long-term. #Slippery slope 101. Zen teachings can help ameliorate and diffuse, sometimes, but not always. I still think you should at least have a listen to a Wells Audio amplifier. It couldn't be more convenient for you. (no affiliation) :) |
FWIW, I just completed an all day audition of seven different top flight integrated amps using the same exact speakers I own and at matched volume levels. The amps I auditioned included the Luxman 905x, Simaudio 340ix, Hegel H390, NAIM Supernait 3, Pass Labs int 60, Gryphon Diablo 300, and VAC 170i. ALL sounded superb. And I would be ecstatic to own any of them. They all had their respective sonic personalities. However, there was one amp that I kept coming back to, over and over and over again...the D300...hands down. The amp produced the exact sound and characteristics my ears wanted to hear. It sounded absolutely sublime and the craftsmanship was flawless. My amp hunt is over. |
| Post removed |
Like everyone else, improvement in sound. Musicality, clarity, bass speed, and sound stage. With the Boulder phono and Amp with Transparent Reference cables, I think I will be set up pretty neutral for any other changes I would want to make in the future like cartridges and speakers. That said, I want to make sure I hear lots of options. |
@mayoradamwest I find this thread mildly fascinating. To reiterate what others have asked: what is it you feel you’re missing and what is it that you’re hoping to find? Furthermore, why is $30K, for an amplifier, your "magic number?" Can you articulate how the level of your existing system relates to the level of musical enjoyment you derive when you sit down and simply listen to that system? Do you wonder how much more enjoyable it would, could, might be, how much better it would sound, if only you had the perfect amp? I mean no disrespect, and I ask out of curiosity. And I do wish you luck on your journey. |
@tomic601 thanks for pointing me towards that review. It confirms what I was hoping, that the Rossini is a DAC with nearly no peers. As for using it as a preamp, I’m not sold. I like the sound of the Ref 6 and can’t really picture myself going through the trouble of doing a pointless A2D and D2A for my TT, which is the thing I listen to the most, by a wide margin. |
You should check out Marks review of Rossini 2.0 on The Audio Beat and his sidebar on analog preamp functionality and at least four possible solutions. I have both the excellent sounding WADIA 17 and 4000 along with Ayre A2D and the 2.0 might be next for me IF it can displace the Pandora Sig and Ref5se yes I am very aware the RS has no turbos, my point was more along the lines of the relationship between tracking and the relative insanity of racing..,Porsche treat turbos as consumables under CPO ref 650 and 750 are midrange magic machines and tube salesman dream system synergy is everything have fun |
@douglas_schroeder I have not considered it for a couple reasons. First, is that the Mytek seems to have this tendency to jump the volume around based on my computer’s settings and I just know I am going to blow out a speaker if I trust it. Second, when I do replace the Mytek with the Rossini, I’ll probably try it, but need a preamp regardless for the phono side which is, if anything, more important to me. I do appreciate the suggestion and will definitely try it with the dCS. |
@jackaro that’s a really great data point, thanks. I was eyeing a used set of 750 SE I had seen for a great price but I had this feeling in a back to back test, SS would really crush the tubes on clarity. It seems like I probably made the right choice with the tube preamp. Will definitely look in to the options you mentioned. Thanks! |
mayoradamwest, have you ever tried DAC (either integrated, or dedicated with software attenuation) direct to amp(s)? It's right around a $30K question. It's also a pertinent question considering the vast influence of system build out on sound. (Forgive my impertinence in not reading all posts; this may have been addressed earlier) |
I need to hop on-board with Tom_Hankins here. I recently replaced my pair of ARC 750SE's (70k) with a pair of Audionet MAX's (30.5k). System is ARC REF 10 pre/REF 3 Phono, YG Sonja 2.2 speaks, MBL N31 cdp, TW Raven 3 table/Raven arm, Air Tight Opus tied up with Shunyata PC's and Crystal Clear IC's. Amazing how the MAX's teamed up with the REF 10 (also occasionally swap out with a VTL 7.5 v3 pre with same results). Brought the entire system into focus with insane transparency and detail!! Initial reaction was a shortfall in bass/mid-bass, but after extended listening the entire rig is simply more clearly balanced in every way. Tighter, cleaner bass without a ton of "wooliness" from the massive tube amps.Once again, proves the point of system synergy vs. MSRP. Best of Luck and Listening! |
I suspect the Lyra is closer to $3 per LP but the point is valid. No turbo in the RS. 520 naturally aspirated horses that rev to 9000. I do plan on trying the Ayre as well. From what I read, the Boulder 2160 might be tough to beat. That said, I don’t think it meets one of the major requirements. I just happened to look at the dimensions. It’s freaking gigantic. No way that thing is fitting in a rack. |
@mayoradamwest "Cables are Transparent Reference, specifically chosen to match the Boulder setup. I could get the Boulder pre-amp, but it’s 55k...." I’m a car guy and FWIW, I could get a 2020 Porsche 911 Carrera 4S, but it’s 192,00k...." The eternal question: "When is good enough good enough?" Your money, your aspirations, and your ears. I’ll be interested in how your saga plays out. (no pun intended) Good luck. |
Cables are Transparent Reference, specifically chosen to match the Boulder setup. I could get the Boulder pre-amp, but it's 55k and I quite like the little bit of character I get from the ARC Ref 6. The Boulder Phono is wonderfully neutral as well, and now have a Lyra Etna SL (just totally blows away the Koetsu Onyx Platinum). |
Hi @majoradamwest. Looking forward to hearing about your findings and comparisons. +2 on the 860a v2. and perhaps you could stretch for a mono pair. As you may know, audiovisionsf has their demo now broken-in. They also recently started carrying gryphon and mac so may be able to cobble together an interesting A/B. That said, would be great to test it at home... |
The right amplifier in a system is so specific to the particular system matching and personal taste that it is almost impossible to make meaningful recommendations except for the purpose of establishing a list of candidates. It would not make that much sense to go to a shop to listen to a candidate either. To me, the best approach is to work with a small number of dealers who are willing to let you audition amps in your own system. That might mean a large deposit or "buying" the amp with a return allowed (perhaps with a re-stocking fee). Of course this would limit your auditions to only a few models, but, at least you are assured of liking what you purchase. |
I will throw my .02 here. I sold Hi end audio for about 15 yrs, swimming in this dollar pond for an amp, there is only one thing to do. One MUST hear the prospective amp in their house, in their system. Going to a shop to "hear an amp" that has 20+ variables....room...other equipment, cables etc is MOOT and will tell you NOTHING. You have nice gear and speakers certainly worthy of a top amp. Just gotta hear it.....at home. |
@mayoradamwest PM me if you’re interested, I have the Pass XA60.8 monos and live in the Bay Area. They’re not the 160.8 but will give you a taste of the Pass sound. However, as you’ve noted they don’t fit your guidance...they do get warm (especially in the Summer months) and cannot be placed in racks. But the sound is just incredible. BTW I have small children too but they’ve been trained to stay away :) Another option is reach out to Mark Sammut at Reno Hifi, and he can arrange to ship you the 160.8 to demo in your house. Mark is great to work with! |
The Digital Amplifier Company (DAC) would be a good choice to audition. A pair of Mono MK2 Megaschinos will keep you under 10k or the 2 channel Megaschino MK2 for $6100. DAC has been around for a long time building digital amps that sound fantastic! I have a Stereo Maraschino (STM) that I use with my horns in the summer to keep the heat down in my room. Sometimes I wonder why I even deal with my SET tube amps the STM is THAT good! DAC offers a 30 day no frills return policy so you can get a real feel for the sound. Reach out to DAC you’ll be glad you did! https://www.cherryamp.com/dac-home |
I'd suggest listening to a Balanced Audio Technology VK655SE. It is two separate amplifiers in a single chassis (dual mono design). Each amp in the chassis has its own power supply with its own power cord. The design is fully balanced with zero negative feedback. However, it may not meet your price criteria as the amp only costs about $15K. I guess you could always buy two... |
Symphonic Line RG7 Mk5, or RG-4 monoblocks ( the RG 4 monoblocks are the best choice in my opinion with the 802D3)..... Rega Osiris integrated (you can compare its line section to the Audio Ref preamp, as it offers a "direct" mode as an amp)... Also the Rhapsody Sound in NYC imports a new line of amps: PILIUM. The importer (BOb Visintaier) has been waxing superlatives on this brand, and he has a good ear and a nice guy to boot, worth talking to IMHO (just avoid modern day ex demo, or new Goldmund amps he might offer)... Nagra amps suck by the way, for the kinda of money they want for them.... as do Gryphons & Vitus for the same reason.... imho. There is also a dealer in SF offering the Technics SE-R1 at a good price.... Worth looking into with its companion DAC/preamp... vs your REf 6 preamp.... The new Yamaha Ca-5000 preamp & M-5000 amp, which now only available in Canada, but should be of reference quality at about 15 grand $US..... In fact you can vertical bi amp your speakers with 2 of those M-5000, for almost an "unlimited" reserves.... |