Audio Physic Virgo II. It's the one characterisitc that is always cited with regard to these speakers. You need to be right in the sweet spot, but once you are, "hey, where are the spearkers?".. |
Of all I've owned or listened to, the Spica Angelus were the best. In fact I just sold mine, sad to say...but have a pair of Dunlavy SC-IVs to replace them with, which offer most of the imaging the Angelus had (not all) but also of course add a lot in other areas the Angelus didn't have in dynamics and bass. |
I really liked Bowers and Wilkins but they are very dependant on the source gear. |
My NHT Xd's are contenders, imo. |
Not sure if it's the master, but my Focus Audio FS-688s do the imaging trick about as good as I've heard anywhere.
Cheers,
Garry |
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My $400 eBay specials compare favorably with the Gallo Reference 3s and Martin Logan Aeons I auditioned last week. And, that's with an H/K receiver and CD player. Lacking the dynamics of the Gallos and the resolution of the Martin Logans, but when I get the Spicas set up just right (not easy, and I've been tweaking for two weeks), they throw an image like nobody's business. Incredible to get this performance from a <$1,000 system. |
Best imaging I've heard is Acoustat Monitor 3's (these happened to have interfaces, not servo-amps). Better than 2+2's or Spectra 66's. I think the angled panels had something to do with it. |
The Dynaudio Evidence playing Vangelis' Opera Sauvage had notes floating in the room like soap bubbles. Not my all time favorite speakers, but the imaging was killer with the right source. As it should be for their megabuck flagship. |
I first have to say that for those who want to take this with a grain of salt, so be it - I'm a part of Fried Products...
However, luckily, before he died, Bud Fried gave me his longtime personal loudspeakers - C/4 satellites with O subwoofers, and they are without a doubt the best imaging speakers I have EVER been around. Of course, they are a one off pair, and all of the drivers were custom built to his own specification. And, the crossovers were tweaked and tweaked and tweaked until it sounded right to him.
I used to think it was the time alignment/minimum baffle of the truncated pyramids that are the C sats, but experience has proven to me that the REAL secret is the series crossover. A close friend and I talk a lot, and through experimentation the series crossover just provides such superior imaging that it's flat out uncanny. At one juncture, while I was listening, I jumped up because I heard the phone ringing several yards behind me - it was the music! And, my listening position is right up against the back wall. Talk about one of those jaw dropping moments - I was flat out dumbfounded! |
Best imaging I have heard is the Thiel 7.2. I own them, so may be biased, but I keep looking to upgrade, and have not found anything that casts images like 7.2s.
So what makes a speaker image well? |
The one, the only...
CARAVELLE.
PS
(Just kidding.)
Despite the bashing in another thread, the Wilson Watt Puppies image pretty well. |
I currently use both Parsifal Encores and Merlin VSM SEs in 2 different systems. Both are excellent at imaging. Neither can match the little ProAc Super Tablettes I heard 20 years ago, which offered the most tangible presentation of depth I can recall. Of course, the Pro Acs were almost unlistenable in their forward balance and very tough to mate with a sub. However, on imaging alone, they were the best I've heard.
I would also note that, under the right circumstances, any number of planar loudspeakers (I've heard great soundstaging/imaging from Soundlab, Maggies, Acoustat, and Apogee) can startle in this regard. The room and listening position were always critical, though. |
Martin Logan Monolith iii, the big boys. Blow away almost anything out there. Imaging to Die for!!! |
Unity audio. They have been gone for some time now but I'm told they're coming back as the owner is through with his government work and will get back to making great speakers again. I had the pleasure of listening to an entry level pair driven by LA Audio tube amps, at Acoustic Image, and was floored by what I heard. Exceptional imaging; 3-D pinpoint images of muscians spread out across the room in front of me with deep layering. I swear I could have gotten up and walked around the musicians. The song was Shirley Horn's 'Don't Let The Sun Catch You Cryin' ' and to this day, I've never heard a soundstage recreated in that manner. I'm still kicking myself in the butt for not geting those speakers as I would never have parted with them. |
Acapella Violins - the only speakers I've heard where I believed I could touch the musicians. That said, the guy had also spent a fortune on some very special (possibly weird) room treatments - lumps of ebony on bird perchs - we did mess with them, and they did make a difference!
Just my 2p :0) |
The best I've heard are also the ones I now own and have reviewed right here on A'gon: Intuitive Design Summit PSL 624 loudspeakers. (PSL = Pitcher Sound Labs). Astonishing imaging, in a wonderful way, and that's with a behemoth "entertainment" center positioned right between the two speakers. It's as if the entertainment center didn't even exist. They have it all, and in spades: Height, Width, Depth, AND a wiiiiiiide sweet spot. Phenomenal off axis dispersion with no discernible loss in precision of the imaging. I'm awestruck, but as you can see, not dumbstruck. :)))
Sooner or later, people will start to figure out how great these are, assuming they get a chance to listen to them.
Nope, I don't sell them. It's just wonderful to finally be satisfied with my speakers, and not have had to mortgage the house (again) to get to that point. |
Dayton Wright's revisited. Hey Rasdc.I am currently restoring a pair of xg-8's. Perfect???? nothing is perfect but the Wright's were miles ahead of anything in their day. Unfortunately at that time,very few amplifiers were capable of driving them so few of us ever "really" got to hear them set up properly. |
The Hill Plasmatronic - I've been around this business for 25 years & seen most of them. The Hill is not around anymore, except used. It uses a plasma gas chamber, modulated by the audio signal as the radiating source - almost zero moving mass - driven by its own tube amp. The staging and focalization is without peer. Musicality is like triodes extended into speakers. It's meant to be used with a subwoofer, but coned units, except for Shahinians, are just not fast enough. Any Dayton Wrights still around - their perfect. But what to get for the crossover - only two choices - the older Shahinian and Audio Research units. They are the only units to have the transparency adequate to the Hill's. |
spica tc50, tc60, angeles
celestion 600, 700(700se are pretty amazing)
audiostatic esl
magnapan older ribbons, and 1.6
audiophysic virgo & libra(current speaker)
joesph audio pearl
alon proteaus |
Focus audio fs 688, impeccable imaging |
I know this thread is about imaging but since this is only one part of what a speaker needs to accomplish isnt it like asking what bakery makes the best cherry topping on their pies and forgetting the rest? Anyway the Decapo i by reference3a is very good which is why I use them with confidence in my recording studio but even if that were their best feature I would'nt own them. |
That's easy. The President of the United States...at
any given time in history. |
Well, I've got a pair of old Acoustat model 3s and have a set of 2+2s on the way for my surround system as well as a Klipsch RSW 15 sub, Will let you know but the imaging should be killer, Now, To get a Logan center and I'll be done! Oh yea, And out of dough!!! LOL! |
[ ...whichever speaker I have....]
or...
[ ...whichever speaker I sell... ]
LOL
Whovever started this post, should maybe specify what speaker size he/she prefers. It would really help. |
Hi, you would have to have the Von Gaylord electronics to have the sound that you heard at the show. Actually it is the sum of everything. Electronics, speakers, wires,interconnects, and powercords. |
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Another master is Apogee Duetta Signature...I'm listening to them right now.
Dave |
The newish Dulcet from Reference 3a is an exeptional imager, at least for a smallish room. Its ability to disappear, while centerng the lead voice or instrument in an unwavering location makes you laugh with delight. This at a modest price. At the higher end; bigger room, bigger deal, I was very impressed by the imaging of the Watt Puppy 7s. Making those Puppies disappear was a good trick indeed. |
As a former spica angelus owner I have to say that the Green Mountain Audio Europas have better imaging than the spicas. |
another vote for the Spica's. all of them.
i agree you with you that the legend room sounded great. even with the little integrated. but i think you may need to buy that whole system. component synergy may have had a lot to do with the sound in that room. would like feedback on this. |
You guys are all WRONG. The best I'd ever heard was a pair of Spica TC50 fed from a Class A tube amp with a turntable source. Speakers were on stands 12' apart in a dead quiet room. |
ANY pair whose drivers and crossovers happen to be clones, either by strict QA or luck of the draw. |
The Acoustat X with direct drive power amps. It sounds like the harpisichord is in the room. |
Revel Salon's or Studio's hands down, Dunlavy SCV's arent too shabby either. Nothing can compete with a speaker with high quality drivers which operate in a wide dispersion pattern from narrowband configuration of steep crossover points. Just picked up a pair of ML Prodigy's for our other room. They are great too, but a different kind of sound altogether, more relaxed sounding, kind of like background music or elevator music, thats probably the best way to describe them. Dipoles/omnipolar/electrostatics by nature dont image as well as a dynamic front firing driver array speakers. They give off the impression that they do, but with less detailed images from rear firing reflections and many times with smearing even the best of them. Ive always found that electrostatics sound best with the rear wave absorbed as much as possible. |
The best imaging I've heard so far was on a pair of Verity Audio Parsifal Encores and the Fidelios. The width, depth and layering of the soundstage could be absolutely amazing with these speakers. Don't know the secret, perhaps it's the use of very expensive Skaaning drivers and matching them very closely. Whatever they do, it does the trick and sounds spooky real!
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Speaking of Totem Accoustics has anyone heard the Shaman or Wind models? I've read two good reviews on the Shaman in spite of their 5 speaker 3-way 2nd order cross over design. The "Wind" model is very interesting looking, but once again I'm very skeptical of the 2nd order cross over design. |
kpaudio: Dunlavy was an engineer first and then a music lover. The amount of detail that he put into his research and designs demonstrates this. As such, his products strived to be the best that he could deliver on a technical basis while trying to "sound good" too. I don't doubt that many professional sound people and engineers would consider these to be their reference speakers. As a side note, i have to agree with your comments about sealed designs. My guess is that you have a pretty good set of ears attached to the sides of yer head : ) Sean
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From a professional POV,my opinion is that the Dunlavy designs are the most accurate designs,and many of the top mastering people prefer them.Bob Ludwig,Denny Purcell,Sony Mastering are some of those who use them.The Duntech speakers,designed 20 years ago,are still used by Ludwig for stereo mastering.If you want to hear detail,these are the real thing.Performance like ESLs,but full blown dynamics. The Duntech's used Dynaudio drivers,and the DAL,Dunlavy Audio Labs (no longer made,bankrupt in 2002) I think used modified VIFA or SEAS drivers.Depending on your dynamic requirements or listening tastes,I would also recommend Vandersteen,Thiels,or the relatively new Usher speakers.(if you don't need high SPL) All Dynaudios need lots of power to really perform. What do you want,accurate soundstage or something larger than life? This is a subjective topic,a brutally neutral,honest loudspeaker will disappoint most people,when they discover how lean/bright many recordings are and poor their room acoustics are! As Tom Holman says:"Film and music is an art,audio is a science" I like many of the ESLs,but they have dynamic limits and bass limitations,although they are more immune to room acoustics.Audio mastering is an obsession of mine,I work in film audio restoration.I still have my Spica SC-50s.They were a remarkable speaker,but were made 20 yrs ago.I prefer sealed loudspeakers,although half as efficent,their bass is tighter and deeper.Audio is a world of tradeoffs. |
Almost any ESL with the right tube amp. |
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I think a lot of people feel as you do. The Legend system is an eye opener. But has anyone mixed and matched components? Unfortunatly I can't just buy the whole system. Should I try the speakers? the amp? or the cables? |
Souljasmooth, great post! So someone else is familiar with the Peak Incognitos! I got a pair after hearing them at the 2003 CES. One of the top 4 sounding rooms at both shows, I.M.H.O. I'm running mine with Atma-sphere gear...their impedance is a great match for OTL amps (7 ohm, never dropping below 6.8 ohm!) Sound staging, both location and depth is amazing. But the clarity and separation is where these speakers really shine. The way that the Incognitos present female vocals and especially the way that they can separate and clarify vocal harmonies still defies my belief. The Peaks transcend that magical audio threshold presentation from "they are here" into "you are there"! |
Meech33 - Do you remember what recording you were listening to when you had this experience? I was listening to a shop's reference system once and found it very flat and I was in shock at the cost for the sound they were getting. Then they spun the Classic 45 version of Louis Armstrong's St. James Infirmary. WHOA! Talk about imaging and analogue over digital...it was religious. I always liked Armstrong but I never realized how much he truly deserved to be the american legend he is until that day. It wasn't the speakers nearly as much as the recording. That sound has been the dragon ive been chasing ever since. |
After further listening in real world rooms I have to lean towards the Wilson Audio Watt/Puppy 7s followed by the Sophias and the Kharmas. Sound this good in a typical room only gets better when the room is tricked-out. The Kharmas and Wilsons are so close that any difference becomes personal. The one element that really impressed me was how much of a difference an interconnect makes. The sound stage that the Valhalla throws when everything is equal and with a push of a button you can go from one IC to another, is not only audible but its dramatic. I trust what I witnessed and what I heard because the demo was on my system and I was given a week to play. Peace and Good Listening , Pat. |
Ok, you gonna keep us in suspense, or are you gonna tell us which two those are?
Oz |
These are 2 modern day speakers that image well. |
KEF Q1 bookshelf speakers are oddly adept at imaging...
i got a couple of these as Get-By speakers, after i sold my old deftechs and processor to upgrade my processor...
$225 a pop, and they sound in my view, far better than the Definitive Technologys BP2004TLs which sell for $800 each. (and no, it was not the processor holding the deftechs back, ive done side by side comparisons on the same processor with these)
these were origionally get-by speakers but thier performance totally floored me, very suprising.
Anyways, these things image like steven speilberg. talk about depth and pinpoint accurracy.
what started out as a "Get by" speaker has turned into what will probably be one of my favorite and most cherished stereo posessions. |
