What was wrong with the P-mount ?

Snap-on, snap-off. 

That's a huge benefit for me right there. :)

Best,

E

I can not comprehend, fathom, or understand why any serious audiophile would engage the use of a P-mount cartridge in a Music Reproduction System it is just a compromise offering no improvement, benefit, or advantage.

The hype started with P-Mount cartridge made by Technics, it was the best cartridge from this brand. Actually it was made in two versions: P-Mount and Headshell Integrated. Audiogon is full of information and rave reviews about P-Mount version, you can easily find and read. Search for Technics p100c mk4 It was long time ago, but seems like people were crazy about this cartridge, it was MM. You can find statements like "the best MM ever made". Nobody cares that it was P-Mount, it was easy to use with P-Mount adapter like this.  

Another version of the same cartridge was headshell integrated. personally i like headshell integrated cartridges, i owned many Technics, these two were my favorite (before i have found much better cartridges). 

At that time almost everyone tried to say that P-Mount is better than headshell integrated version. People paid crazy amount of money to VdH who personally refurbished those overpriced P-Mount Technics p100c mk4 samples for audiogon members. 

Nowadays people still ready to invest over $2000 in this Technics Pmount p100c mk4 (if the condition is good). 

In the 80's Technics released mk4 version in 205 series.
The EPC-205c mk4 is so cute, i enjoyed it, this is where i tried and compared original, jico sas, axel's refurbished ... 

Because i like the design of the 205 series i bought my first P-Mount version of this red cartridge (P-205c mk4), don't know why, it was hard to resist, we will see if i'm lucky with the damper this time. 

Well, i was trying to say that the hype about P-Mount cartridge nowadays was just because of the Technics top models, they are simply not available in conventional version. 

 

Technically, I suppose you are correct, bimasta. The term Pmount  probably should be reserved for that one kind of mount. The B&o mounts are different as I already said and you’ve reiterated. Fair enough.

I can not comprehend, fathom, or understand why any serious audiophile would engage the use of a P-mount cartridge in a Music Reproduction System it is just a compromise offering no improvement, benefit, or advantage.

I've only had one P-Mount Turntable/Arm — Technics SL-15. It took every P-Mount cartridge I tried, from Technics to ADC, Ortofon, Shure, Audio-Technica. As I understand it, the whole concept behind P-Mount was standardization and ease of use — any P-arm could take any P-cart on a plug-and-play basis — so the idea there'd be differences that rendered them incompatible makes little sense.

B&O did not make P-Mounts. Their own design of "plug-in" is not compatible with either standard or P-arms... which is unfortunate as B&O made some wonderful carts. Moreover, their plug-in designs kept changing, and their cartridges must be matched to the correct model TT/arm.

It’s my first P-Mount @lewm
Looking at the catalog i think Technics P-mount 205 mk4 is standard ?
B&O looks different

chak, This or that will work for some P-mounts, but aren't the Technics P-mounts "special", like B&O P-mounts?  Be sure of compatibility.

I will have to find P-Mount adaptor for my Technics P-205c mk4 cartridge.
Thinking about this or that. 
Any comments ? 

@erik_squires 
I understand what you mean about the Rega TT. I had a P3-24 with an Exact 2 and it was fine and simple to set up. Now I have a Technics SL1200G with a Hana SL. Like Chakster said, easy to set up. Just one more step than the Rega and much better performance. 

The P-mount was adopted most notably by B&O back when they made some of the best sounding MI cartridges, ever, in my opinion. Peter Ledermann must think highly of them too, since he has devoted his company to repairing the old MMC series and building new cartridges based on the same idea. The P-mount was very well suited to very high compliance types, because you could dispense with a headshell entirely, thereby lowering effective mass compared to almost any other alternative method of mounting. The problem was and is that P-mounts from company A are not cross-compatible even with P-mounts from company B. For example, a B&O P-mount cartridge will only work on a B&O tonearm with a B&O P-mount receptacle. In the end, B&O and others who made P-mounts usually had to come up with some sort of adapter, so to mount the cartridge in a conventional headshell. I own a B&O MMC1 and an Acutex LPM320III. Those are two of my finest sounding cartridges, bar none. Both P-mounts being used with adapters. For Mijo to dismiss all P-mount cartridges with the back of his hand only reveals either his ignorance or his intransigence. Some of the other propaganda he dispenses with regularity, regarding dust covers and the need to clean an LP, is also, to say the least, questionable.

Zero adjustments?? Sounds perfect! :)

Be careful what you wish for. Simple is fine, as long as simple also provides the performance you are expecting.

Eric when you’re buying new Technics turntable like SL1200G or SL1200GR (those are the best you can get) a cartridge adjustment is very easy, because plastic overhang gauge is included. This is how it works and you don’t need a P-Mount cartridge.

There is only ONE thing you have to check, it’s position of the stylus tip, it must be right under the mark on the overhang gauge.

Just buy yourself a brand new Technics from the store with warranty and be happy, it’s great turntable if you can afford SL1200GR at least (or G for much higher price).

I don’t like Rega and all that belt drive crap they are selling for higher price than perfect Technics SL1200GR ($1700 in USA).

If you need a decent MM cartridge for your Technics i can not only offer you some of the best MM, but i could mount and align it for you not only with Technics overhang gauge, but also with Dr.Feickert if you want Baerwald alignment method instead of Technics method. I’m sure some fellow audiophiles can do the same for you. I own a few Technics turntables myself (and many others).

Rigidity problem? 

Eric, the only real hassle with turntables is you have to get up every 20 minutes to flip sides. Set up is a once every 10 year thing when you change cartridges. If you take care of your records correctly, only by new ones, use a dust cover and a conductive sweep arm you never have to clean them because they never get dirty. Having said all this LPs have a euphoric character and for us old guys there are romantic and tradition factors. LP's are less convenient and more noisy which turn off a lot of young people. They are also potentially much more expensive than digital. You can set up a premium computer based system for the cost of a middle of the road cartridge. Unfortunately there is no easy cheap way to get your feet wet. Turntables are a tweaker's heaven. If you are not one, stay away.
P mount cartridges s--k by the way.

Mike

Fixed dimensions for the cartridge, adjust the tracking force, and bam, done.

Fixed only for one tonearm if the P-Mount cartridge and Tonearm are from the same manufacturer. When you switch P-Mount cartridge between different arm there is nothing fixed (you will have to connect wires to P-Mount adapter just like with any conventional cartridges), you will have to adjust overhand for each tonearm (they are different). Also you can’t twist the cartridge in the headshell when you want to change alignment method from Stevenson to Baerwald for example.

What was the ultimate P-Mount system ?
I think Technics SL1000 mk3D is ultimate, this system is factory calibrated and all you need is to insert a Technics P-mount cartridge, very simple. Tonearm and arm board is one piece, simply amazing. Instead of Technics P-mount MC cartridge i would add Technics p205c mk4 MM.

Technics SL1000 mk3D is very nice, indeed. 

erik_squires

So, as some of you may gather, I know very little about turntables. I mean, I think of getting into vinyl, especially with the new Techniques turntables

So, what is it you like about the new Techniques turntables, Eric?

Not a big fan of Rega's price/performance in electronics.

Zero adjustments?? Sounds perfect! :)

If you want it simple, go with Rega. Just two easy adjustments and you are done. 

Also, most of the tonearms for P-mount were cheap and light, with little or no adjustment possible.

Zero adjustments?? Sounds perfect! :)

It did have a lot going for it...

Such as? OK, P-mount cartridges are quick and easy to mount. But the size, shape and weight of the standardized cartridge was very limiting for cartridge designers. Pretty much all of these were high compliance (soft suspension) cartridges that were very popular in the 80s. Also, most of the tonearms for P-mount were cheap and light, with little or no adjustment possible.

Not my cup of tea but maybe it's yours.

P-mount came out to late, everyone was switching to CD so it kind of fizzled out. It did have a lot going for it and a number of manufactures started making them, there were even some pretty darn good ones but the whole TT industry was in a tailspin.

BillWojo

This site needs a like button.

Nothing. You can still buy them at the lower end of the market. Like a Toyota Corolla.