Jughead , I thought looks were important to you? There is no way I could put those in my living room. Anyway, I hope you enjoy the sound they produce.
Skylan stands makes custom stands, they are fillable with sand or cat litter. Great guy! Great company !!
They run about $350 last I checked.
Timbernation is another speaker stand company.
For now , you may just try to find cheap 24inch stools that are sturdy. This should get you through the audition phase. |
"02-04-15: Jughead
... does anyone have any suggestions on a nice pair of stands?"
My suggestion is that you start a new thread and include the stand height you need. |
ok? so lets get back to talking about speakers! if I do end up liking the wavetouch does anyone have any suggestions on a nice pair of stands? |
"02-02-15: After_hrs
Zd542,
Your input once again is irrelevant to anything."
So why do you keep posting. You're ridiculous.
Lets take one last look at the situation that you created here. Here's what happened: I was reading one of the OP's posts. He worded a sentence in such a way that I thought it was funny. I couldn't help but chuckle. I posted an lol. And that's it. Your entire argument is based on 3 letters, lol. You mean to tell me that I'm not allowed to make a humorous comment? And not only that, just to make sure that I didn't accidentally offend someone, I posted this to clarify my statement.
"Jughead,
Just in case you are wondering, my lol comment was just that. The way you worded your post was funny, I couldn't help but laugh. It had nothing at all to do with the company, but don't tell that to After_hrs or he'll be up all night typing. lol."
I don't owe you an explanation for anything I do. If you don't like it, you can kiss my ass. |
Who knows if the wavetouch will be my last speaker? I haven't received it yet, I'm taking advantage of the 40 day in home trial and giving it a shot. so I'm still open to any and all suggestions. any opinions on floorstanders vs bookshelfs? |
Didn't know about Wavetouch until today while looking into Vapor speakers which has turned up some very interesting posts. Glad I found this thread and will be checking out Wavetouch. |
Didn't know about Wavetouch until today while looking into Vapor speakers which has turned up some very interesting posts. Glad I found this thread and will be checking out Wavetouch. |
Zd542,
Your input once again is irrelevant to anything.
He ordered the Wavetouch GT monitors in part because I gave him the confidence to do so in some PM's.
I will continue to give my thoughts on the $10k speaker topic as I see fit. Many threads have a life beyond the needs of the OP... For many this price point is very relevant.
You said;
"Thank you. I was hoping you would figure that out at some point."
Astounding, Pathetic.
|
Zd542,
Your input once again is irrelevant to anything.
He ordered the Wavetouch GT monitors in part because I gave him the confidence to do so in some PM's.
I will continue to give my thoughts on the $10k speaker topic as I see fit. Many threads have a life beyond the needs of the OP... For many this price point is very relevant.
You said;
"Thank you. I was hoping you would figure that out at some point."
Astounding, Pathetic.
|
Aftr_hrs,
"Reading this nonsense illustrates my point perfectly...Wasting some time is an necessary evil of forums... Thanks for providing the object lesson."
Thank you. I was hoping you would figure that out at some point. Anyway, looking at you last post, "To all others, maybe it's time to start posting some personal experience $10k range speakers that are worth commenting on for those that see the title...", I don't know if you were aware of this, but if you scroll up you'll see that the OP already bought speakers. It probably doesn't make sense to keep giving recommendations. |
Zd542,
Clearly, I was referring to your "lol" response to the manufacturer's confidence comment...
Also, being the first to answer a thread means what exactly? Answer...Nothing.
You said, "Now you've caught yourself in somewhat of a paradox. If reading anything that I've written here is a waste of time, you can't know that until you've read my post. Going by your logic, you shouldn't even be reading this. But you are, and in doing so you're in defiance of your own "logic"?
And... "Luckily for us, your logic and reality are not the same thing. If you can somehow figure out a loophole, see if you can read the thread from the beginning."
Reading this nonsense illustrates my point perfectly...Wasting some time is an necessary evil of forums... Thanks for providing the object lesson.
To all others, maybe it's time to start posting some personal experience $10k range speakers that are worth commenting on for those that see the title...
Here are a few I've heard and loved, in no particular order;
The Vaughn Cabernet
Proac Response D40R w/ribbon tweeter (discontinued) great used value, replacement even better.
ATC SCM40A brand new, incredible, powered. Drive directly.
DeVore Silverback's, older or newer version. Occasionally found used.
I've also seen Salon 2 Revel's (retail over $20k) go for well under $10k in the L.A. area... More set up is needed than for your average speaker but big reward when optimized.
Personally I'm looking to step up soon to either Ascendo System F's
or the rarely discussed, Advanced Transduction Directorate loudspeaker.
Cheers |
"01-26-15: After_hrs
Zd542,
I happily stand up for good people who are deserving... The owner of Wavetouch is such a person.
"The owner of the company is confident that his speakers will outperform my VA Mozart's and I wont return them."
lol.
This is a pointless and valueless comment.
Reading anything you've written here is a waste of time..."
Well, you should have. Because if you did, then you would know the pointless and valueless comment, wasn't mine.
"Do you have anything technical to add or a recommendation that might be applicable here?"
Now you've caught yourself in somewhat of a paradox. If reading anything that I've written here is a waste of time, you can't know that until you've read my post. Going by your logic, you shouldn't even be reading this. But you are, and in doing so you're in defiance of your own "logic"?
Luckily for us, your logic and reality are not the same thing. If you can somehow figure out a loophole, see if you can read the thread from the beginning. I was the first person to respond to the OP's question, and had several posts after, in the discussion that followed. Is there anything in any of them that you take issue with? The OP hasn't. |
Yep... More than likely You will be in a completely different audio territory from VA. 40 days should allow you to assess if their sonic signature fits your preferences or not. G. |
Yeah I'm real excited about these speakers, with the VA's I guess I new what kind of sound I was going to get probably the same as the Mozart's just more of it. |
Jh,
Enjoyed your pm's... As we discussed, this level of audio enthusiasm is as much about the the discovery behind the philosophy/science of new designs as it is about the 'art form' of the audio experience itself. As I'm working on stuff this morning and also getting ready to host a small Superbowl get together later, happily looking out of a large window at a beautiful green covered hill in sunny California feeling totally blessed having taken delivery of our newest family member yesterday (2015 liquid platinum GS350 F-sport Lexus, lucky us) listening to our Gen2 GT's (great atmospheric music; N Nicco-The Castle, Air- Alone in Kyoto, BT- The Shame bent mix, David Lanz- Dream of the forgotten child, Elton John- Love Song off of Tumbleweed Connection) expecting our first child in a few months... I had to share this feeling because the Wavetouch speaks are an integral part of this feeling of appreciation right now. Someone recently was asked what their favorite thing about Winter was; the reply..."My favorite thing about Winter is being able to watch it on TV from California".
Cheers |
Sounds exciting... Keep us posted. G. |
ordered the wavetouch se and I should have them in about 10 more days, if they don't meet my standards I have a 40 day in home trial, so nothing to lose. |
After_hrs and Simao,
Although, with regard to my post just above and in the interest of fairness, I suppose I should point out that the quote about the Wilsons I believe you're referring to, Simao, was not that they "blow the Wilsons out of the water", but if you reread that I think you'll see that, bass differences aside, the GT's were effectively equally as good as the Wilsons (for that owner), but at a tenth of the cost...if my memory serves. |
After_hrs and Simao,
"Again, I imagine Wavetouch are quality products and that their designer is a passionate and devoted craftsman and technician, but the way these things are being trumpeted, you'd think they're the second coming of hi-end audio."
"That's funny, their definitely not the second coming...Yep, I agree it may be a bit over the top at times, but totally truthful! It's our way of giving back I suppose. Not a new story...small company, no advertising budget, growing track record, a kind, innovative, passionate owner, and an enthusiastic, growing gallery of BELIEVERS.... sorry S, there I go again"
"I mean, really? They best Avantegarde or Kharma Ceramique? They blow Wilsons out of the water?"
"Totally agree..."
The fact of the matter for me is that, to all that, I say +1 |
|
I'm also surprised no one has mentioned Devore speakers. The O93 and O96 are Stereophile Class A speakers and are reference for a few Stereophile and Absolute Sound reviewers. For $10K, you could get a beautiful new set of the O96's and be happy until your hearing goes. |
Hrs,
Yours was a temperate and moderated response. I wasn;t targeting you, per se; simply the over-the-top championing as of late in a few threads here on Agon of Wavetouch.
I've spoken and wwritten with Alex about his speakers and though I'm not ready to let my de Capo BE's go (and may never be), Alex came across as a generally nice and thoughtful man who was a comfortable blend of salesman and audiophile.
Still, if someone's asking where he can spend his $10K, I'm going to try to see that he gets his money worth -- all $10K of it. |
Simao, Yep, I know, I may well sound a little Too enthusiastic at times, and I apologize if I come off as schill (not really my intention though). But, I've been as motivated to find end-game speakers as some of the others here, it's just that I haven't had $10k to throw at these days. Because of that I've had to be willing to do some things I might not otherwise would've considered doing before. Spending more, buying used I had pretty much exhausted beforehand. So I looked at trying to identify up-and-coming trends or "breakthrough" products before everyone else did...even though that plainly meant I would just have to roll the dice and see for myself. But, in this case it worked out better than I was hoping for...just nothing at all to give buyer's remorse (or buyer's remorse return in the case of the GT's). That I suspect may not be the usual result for this kind of strategy, but, as I say, this is a case where the risk was justified for me. That may make me one of the few who have tried it and realized for themselves what the value of the GT's are...and it's quite high, higher, I believe, than most of the "excellent values" out there. What can I say? Value is value and when I see something in audio that stands head and shoulders above the rest I say something about it..even when the track record is not there. If you want a big gain for little money in this hobby you very often have to be prepared to not do the traditional things. |
Hey Simoa,
"Truthfully, I feel as if there've been too many threads lately in which Wavetouch all of a sudden assumes high prominence, with a few posters offering sales pitches that sound like, well, sales pitches."
I only jumped onto this thread a couple of days ago after several other posters brought up GT's and the OP was considering spending less.
"Again, I imagine Wavetouch are quality products and that their designer is a passionate and devoted craftsman and technician, but the way these things are being trumpeted, you'd think they're the second coming of hi-end audio."
That's funny, their definitely not the second coming...Yep, I agree it may be a bit over the top at times, but totally truthful! It's our way of giving back I suppose. Not a new story...small company, no advertising budget, growing track record, a kind, innovative, passionate owner, and an enthusiastic, growing gallery of BELIEVERS.... sorry S, there I go again
"I mean, really? They best Avantegarde or Kharma Ceramique? They blow Wilsons out of the water?"
Totally agree... |
Yamaha Soavo ns-f901's $$$ if your looking for some {TAD R-1's} killers!!!... and Vivid Audio Giya G3's if your looking for some of the best speakers money can buy...at any price!!... |
"01-26-15: Ivan_nosnibor
Haven't heard the Beethovens myself. But, the reasons I think you'll love the GT's (Gen. 2 or SE) are because the entire presentation is uncommonly uncompromised, i.e. there seems to be no significant gaps or holes within it. (My quickie review here). They are neutrally transparent and will pass on whatever your components are doing exceptionally well.
The 2 drivers are well matched in that the woofer's phase response is mild and smooth and it hands over to a tweeter's phase response that is quite literally "ruler flat" over the entire operating range of the tweeter (you can find the response graphs of the tweeter at Dayton Audio's website). And some listening time will reveal that the very minimalist crossovers and the Mihorns are, in all likelihood, doing very little indeed to interfere with that unusually good, combined phase response. That results in a strikingly stable, complete, unperturbed and perfectly symmetrical soundstage. Simply not the norm, IME. The Mihorns can also easily be used to create a rather vividly 3D central image as well. Excellent spatial qualities.
I won't get into the details about "how" right now, but the Mihorns tend to "speed up" the sound of everything upstream from them. By that I mean that I'm using some amps at the moment that don't exactly have "HiFi pedigree" written all over them, yet the subjective sensation of system speed is as though I'd spent much more coin on them than I did...I'm still running some experiments along those lines, but I may be able to draw a conclusion or two about how they manage that trick a little later on. If your components are already top notch in that regard, then the Mihorns possibly may not accelerate much beyond a certain point, but, that they do so at all, I've found to be rather unique, so far, IME. Maybe other horns are known to do this??
But, tonally, harmonically and texturally revealing?? Oh yeah!! In spades. And very dynamic.
Look at it this way. They are very small and not only easy to place in the room, but easy and inexpensive to return if you don't like...but, I'll bet you won't return, at all.
Oh, I'll continue to listen to other speakers whenever I get the chance, just out of curiosity, but, even though I'm using a good pair of subs with them that only helps to seal it for me, I already know these are the last speakers I'll ever need to buy, period.
Can't really speak directly to the Beethovens (After_hrs may well be right about them), but I'll throw in my recommendation for the GT's, along with him, without reservation!
Ivan_nosnibor (Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)"
Truthfully, I feel as if there've been too many threads lately in which Wavetouch all of a sudden assumes high prominence, with a few posters offering sales pitches that sound like, well, sales pitches.
Look, I'll sound off on speakers that sound awesome, but I'm not going to proselytize about them to the extent that I come across as a shill for the product. You don't have to own my set of speakers to make me feel validated.
And, as several posters have pointed out, if the OP has $10K to spend, then he or she should spend that $10K on well-reviewed, peer-vetted speakers that have more to them than a webpage of buyer feedback and a few minor reviews.
Again, I imagine Wavetouch are quality products and that their designer is a passionate and devoted craftsman and technician, but the way these things are being trumpeted, you'd think they're the second coming of hi-end audio.
I mean, really? They best Avantegarde or Kharma Ceramique? They blow Wilsons out of the water?
If I'm going to spend $10K on "end-game" speakers, they're not going to be little Baltic birch monitors with an unproven track record. |
Thanks Jughead and Twoleftears |
The Beethoven Concert Grands have been around since 2005. To my knowledge they're passed through three "versions" over these ten years. You gotta wonder how old the ones on ebay are. |
The Beethoven's are on ebay and have been for a while, and the price is actually 2750, local pickup only up near Chicago. Not sure why seller wont ship? he has all original boxes. |
Where do you get beethoven grands for 2k? An inquiring mind wants to know. Thanks |
Zd542,
I happily stand up for good people who are deserving... The owner of Wavetouch is such a person.
"The owner of the company is confident that his speakers will outperform my VA Mozart's and I wont return them."
lol.
This is a pointless and valueless comment.
Reading anything you've written here is a waste of time...
Do you have anything technical to add or a recommendation that might be applicable here? |
Jughead, I think the Parasound would be a good match, since the GT's are so efficient it may seem like more power than you need, but it means you'll likely be doing much of your listening in class A territory...unless you really want to crank them...which they will easily do...! |
"Also, anybody that tries to challenge Wavetouch Audio's INTEGRITY and credibility (zd542 "lol") is baseless...and meaningless to this or any other thread. Look at the "reviews" page on his website and be overwhelmed by the many grateful and satisfied customers. And when you're done there after many hours check his feedback on this website.
After_hrs (Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)"
Well, I seem to have struck a nerve. lol. You must have something to do with the company since you're so quick to get defensive about someone elseÂ’s integrity. lol. But I will say that its rare to have a manufacturers web site, full of reviews and comments from satisfied customers. lol. Looks like you're guaranteed to get the best possible results. lol.
Jughead,
Just in case you are wondering, my lol comment was just that. The way you worded your post was funny, I couldn't help but laugh. It had nothing at all to do with the company, but don't tell that to After_hrs or he'll be up all night typing. lol. |
Jh,
I've heard GT's driven by very expensive amps and good quality budget amps to expected results. Your amp is right in middle and if everything is doing their job properly you're in for a real treat. Your amp's specs are exceptional! FR out to 100k, the damping factor is a little scary, wow...overkill isn't always a good thing, but if it has no peaks your good. Low resistance cables won't be an issue for you, but always good to have super low capacitance cables as well. My choice for mid price reference cables is Zentara reference, extremely open and tonally correct letting all the harmonic info through with spectacular spacial and dynamic capabilities. Perfect, reasonably price partner for the GT's. |
I think they will sound fine with the equipment you have, but will just be a sideways move.
When you really get down to it, if you like fooling around with equipment, do you really want to get to an "end of game" speaker?
I think I am there, in that I do not plan to upgrade my speakers any further, but occasionally I still have lust in my heart for other speakers, so who knows? I may buy another pair of speakers after all.
I hope your Wavetouch works out for you, but keep having fun changing equipment as long as you are enjoying it.
Best Regards,
Jim Perry |
I think I'm going to give wavetouch gt se a try, with the 40 day in home trial it is a no brainer. how well do you guys think they'll do with my Parasound a21 and p5? and Marantz sa 8001 sacd? |
After_hrs, Yes, you are quite correct, of course...did not mean to cloud the issue. The GT's are utterly tonally correct. I didn't mean to imply that the speed the GT's have was somehow less than ideal, or at the expense of something else (just that it was for me a unique experience) - they simply speed things up in the very best sense, there's just no downside to that at all, very natural and relaxed, like you say...z-e-r-o tonal emphasis, indeed, is what I'm hearing! |
Twoleftears,
The Liszt w/ AX5 sounds like a happily ever after pairing...beautiful. The higher bandwidth of both is an essential element not common with less expensive gear. Which was part of my concern with BCG's and their limited dynamic capabilities...in absolute terms.
Without the possibility of extending harmonics well out of the typical "audibility band", the possibility for un-strained, believable dynamics that holds the sonic picture together under load will be compromised. Which drives a key element again with the GT's which have an even higher frequency extension than the Listz. |
Ivan, regarding your comment on speeding things up relative to component quality. The tonality of the current GT products are as spot on as anything out there. I was able to take my $10-15k (prototype) amplifier and connect it to a pair of $35K speakers a few days ago... that were not at all as tonally correct as the GT's. (As it is the company's brand new, recently released model I won't share which one it was at this time, but will down the road... I'm helping to voice it further.) I can see that if it were just the wave guide without the center phase unit timing would be an issue. But as it is, the GT's simply convey the most uncompressed, liquid and super detail picture into what their sent... with ZERO emphasis. I think I know what your trying to explain. It's just a highly articulate...but completely NATURAL, relaxed sound... |
I recently heard the VA Liszt speakers driven by Ayre AX5 and they were spectacularly good. Possibly the best sound I've heard. Drove them loud with Mahler and Sibelius and they completely maintained their composure. At $13K they're obviously over budget.
The brand new VA Beethoven Concert Grand Symphony Edition is supposed to share not a little with the Liszts. Can't say whether this is true, or how much of a step-up the Symphony Edition is over previous iterations of the BCG. |
I suppose I could also add additional information for the OP in regards to other speakers to consider. I think the Legacy Audio Focus SE would be a fine selection as well as the Kingsound Prince III, if you're looking for a planar speaker. I have reviewed both companies.
If you wish a concentric design, Tannoy makes some higher efficiency speakers with appeal though I haven't heard the newer, smaller form towers, and with the Salk Exotica 3 like what I heard from the Alnico drive (Salk also reviewed; earlier model).
Magnepan and Vandersteen are always compelling choices for the price, however, if possible one should audition any of these mentioned above as they all carry quite different house sounds. |
I own the Nimbus White following my review at Dagogo.com. Feel free to read the article and contact me with questions.
You can see how I addressed the current complaints about Vapor in the thread "Vapor Sound Audio/Tons of Value for $$$$" |
Haven't heard the Beethovens myself. But, the reasons I think you'll love the GT's (Gen. 2 or SE) are because the entire presentation is uncommonly uncompromised, i.e. there seems to be no significant gaps or holes within it. (My quickie review here). They are neutrally transparent and will pass on whatever your components are doing exceptionally well.
The 2 drivers are well matched in that the woofer's phase response is mild and smooth and it hands over to a tweeter's phase response that is quite literally "ruler flat" over the entire operating range of the tweeter (you can find the response graphs of the tweeter at Dayton Audio's website). And some listening time will reveal that the very minimalist crossovers and the Mihorns are, in all likelihood, doing very little indeed to interfere with that unusually good, combined phase response. That results in a strikingly stable, complete, unperturbed and perfectly symmetrical soundstage. Simply not the norm, IME. The Mihorns can also easily be used to create a rather vividly 3D central image as well. Excellent spatial qualities.
I won't get into the details about "how" right now, but the Mihorns tend to "speed up" the sound of everything upstream from them. By that I mean that I'm using some amps at the moment that don't exactly have "HiFi pedigree" written all over them, yet the subjective sensation of system speed is as though I'd spent much more coin on them than I did...I'm still running some experiments along those lines, but I may be able to draw a conclusion or two about how they manage that trick a little later on. If your components are already top notch in that regard, then the Mihorns possibly may not accelerate much beyond a certain point, but, that they do so at all, I've found to be rather unique, so far, IME. Maybe other horns are known to do this??
But, tonally, harmonically and texturally revealing?? Oh yeah!! In spades. And very dynamic.
Look at it this way. They are very small and not only easy to place in the room, but easy and inexpensive to return if you don't like...but, I'll bet you won't return, at all.
Oh, I'll continue to listen to other speakers whenever I get the chance, just out of curiosity, but, even though I'm using a good pair of subs with them that only helps to seal it for me, I already know these are the last speakers I'll ever need to buy, period.
Can't really speak directly to the Beethovens (After_hrs may well be right about them), but I'll throw in my recommendation for the GT's, along with him, without reservation! |
VA Beethoven's or wavetouch? |
I thought this thread was about spending $10K for speakers? Why are you even considering spending a fraction of that for what is mostly a sideways purchase? I have nothing against VA's. I think the VA's are a reasonable value for what they do... with the exception of their flagship model... which is very compelling to me. It has a high frequency extension out to 100K... now that's better... and it sells for $27000.00... and this quote was from a review of "The Music" that perfectly describes one aspect of my personal experience with the latest GT's "While working on a variety of projects and wandering around my listening room, I was continually and abruptly surprised by the many quick transients and vocal inflections that poured out from the system—even at low to medium volume levels. I could be sitting at my desk off to the side or sitting in my prime listening position—music quality was superb at both."
Also, I do understand why Ryan at Vapor doesn't offer a trial period. Even his smaller speakers are not lightweights. When an audiophile has a budget of $10K and thoroughly investigates the veracity of Wavetouch Audio and their grateful, elated customers, taking the generous 40 day Wavetouch offer becomes not only a no-brainer but will likely also become the next chapter in their audiophile journey.
Cheers |
Mirage shouldn't have discontinued the M series. They were great speakers. |
Ah, I see now, the Concert Grands should be great, too, and at a very nice price! Good luck! Let us know how that turns out. Regards. John |
Jughead, I'm betting you'll flip over Wavetouch. I certainly did! |
Hey Jh,
Of the 40 days offered by WT you'll not need the remaining 39 days and 20 hrs.
The Mozarts would be destroyed tonally, harmonically and dynamically (especially by the GT SE's)... in every way.
The three areas that would be of concern to me with the Beethoven's also are the limited bandwidth (ultra sonics matter), lowish efficiency for a 4 ohm speaker (the higher the efficiency when driving a 4 ohm load the easier the amp works which produces a more relaxed, effortless sound... especially when pushed). Leading to the third issue with VA Beethoven's... that is common knowledge that when you push VA hard they crumble.
As I've said, great specs don't guarantee great sound but without great specs the potential isn't there.
GT's go out beyond 27K, efficiency @ 94db...
Also, anybody that tries to challenge Wavetouch Audio's INTEGRITY and credibility (zd542 "lol") is baseless...and meaningless to this or any other thread. Look at the "reviews" page on his website and be overwhelmed by the many grateful and satisfied customers. And when you're done there after many hours check his feedback on this website. |
Yep. Hard to beat finding a bargain price on a great speaker AND being able to sell your current one right away.
Several years ago I scored on a new (floor model) pair of Mirage M5si's on closeout at half price ($1K). I was able to turn around and sell my ADS L1090 ii's immediately for $675. Out of pocket for a dramatic upgrade to a $2K speaker: $325.
I still have those Mirages. They're the L-R anchors of my 7.2 HT system. |
