OK, we've seen much input on the best cdp for the money. Now how about we collect opinions on the worst value cdp's out there? You know, like a $3000 player that sounds like a $300 player.
"IMHO law of diminishing returns kick in much quicker when it comes to cd players, the difference between a $500 cd player and a $5000 cd player is not very big, unlike speakers or turntables. I personally don't see any merit in purchasing a cd player costing more than $2000."
Yes, and NO(!!). I do think there is a greater difference in quality of analog reproduction at this price differential than with digital, but the difference is still huge with digital.
I think this statement pretty much sums up the value of the opinion. I've owned a Genki, as well as other CDPs. For the price on the used market it is anything but a POS. I will grant it is laid back, and, if I may be sloppy in my audio shorthand, it has an analog quality. If you like forward presentations and over emphasis on the attack of notes rather than their whole consistency it is not going to please you. But it is very musical to my ear considering the price range.
Perfectionist... I could not agree more with your bashing of the Marantz SA8260! While I am a subscriber to Stereophile, I can't say I take their reviews very seriously, as they regularly rate some Marantz models Class A... what a @#$@#$'ing joke! I auditioned the SA8260 in my system, and my low dollar Jolida JD 100 made the Marantz sound like an AM radio. That being said, my limited experience tells me that there is a significant difference between most $4K players and a $1K player. In my case, I've owned both the Meridian 588 ($4K) and a Jolida JD 100 ($1K with NOS tubes)... the Meridian clearly outclassed the Jolida... but it costs 4 times the price! I sold my high dollar Meridian to upgrade other parts of my system, and am happy with my Jolida for the $650 I paid for it. If I ever have a spare $2K in my britches, I'll probably sell the Jolida and upgrade again... just not to a mass market Marantz touted my S'phile as Class A!
Perfectionist, I agree, Sorlowski did like the SonyDVP 9000es, I own one, I respect that, but in my book, this is a very good player,stock.Its modded now by Modwright the sound is unbelievable.
This thread is the complete polar opposite of Stereophile, and I'm loving it! And just because the manufacturer of the cdp I own is mentioned three different times here, I take no offense, and perhaps I will learn something. I have a cdp to mention here, it's not a big $$$$ unit, but I couldn't get it out of my system (both literally and figuratively speaking) fast enough. Marantz SA8260 (including sacd playback), which Sphile continues to rate as a class A component. A real POS IMO. ;-)
Nothing is as crappy now as it was back in the 70's when I was in collge. Tech Hi Fi in Amherst Ma talked me into buying a Dokoder MK 50 cassette recorder for about $150. That would be about $1000 now. Had a spinning light on top to tell you the motion the tape was playing. It worked fine (sound was crap) for 5 years, then died. CD's weren't invented yet, so I just started listening to vinyl. Would have saved all my old LP's if I had known. Sorry to get off of the worst CDR string!
And for the record - er, CD - ;) I don't think that my Shanling CD player is junk.....I will be using NOS Western Electric 396A's - I just got to get it hooked up....Same with the Genki - Both players have gotten Excellent reviews in (and out of) the press. It's just a matter of taste. As an analogy - most 'critcs' gave mediocre and poor reviews to the latest Star Wars movie, whereas I saw it for the first time this weekend, and thought it was Excellent.
this is a great thread...i thought it was gonna be deleted the day it started...i'm an el cheapo combi player user and i have to agree that the higher $$$ machines sound better...at least the Cary player i tried in my system sure did...my next system will definitely have a better player.
now what i think is really funny is when somebody ups to some super esoteric CDP...I dunno...something like a DCS stack...and then start talking about how much the $5000 players suck.
and before all you DCS guys start beating up on me...yes...I did listen to it...with other good equipment...and yes...my jaw dropped and all those other things...but cmon...really now...hahaha
Boa, Quack, and Mustang (sounds like a 60's rock band) I agree 100%. The difference between a $500 and $5000 cd player is enormous provided the other equipment is of comparable quality.
Quad You said the difference was not big. You are quite incorrect. It may not be apparent with your Quad components and Kef speakers but if you have a highly resolving system there is a very big difference. This is really not a debatable issue.
IMHO law of diminishing returns kick in much quicker when it comes to cd players, the difference between a $500 cd player and a $5000 cd player is not very big, unlike speakers or turntables. I personally don't see any merit in purchasing a cd player costing more than $2000.
I'm not assuming anything beyond what you have written here, Quadophile. I simply disagree with your statement. That's all.
i made no assumptions... i just don't agree with your statement:"the difference between a $500 cd player and a $5000 cd player is not very big" i think the difference is pretty big depending on what $5000 player you're listening to. i've had players in my system ranging from $150 to well over $5000. some of the big buck machines were not impressive at all and some, like the one i own currently are awesome... ymmv
I totally agree on your assessment of Nakamichi. I still own several of their tape decks including a 680ZX and 2 550s (one for parts). They were well ahead of their time in analog sound reproduction. I never owned one of their CDPs as I thought going digital was a sell out on their part. From a business perspective I understand Nakamichi's view, but if you're going to make the jump to digital at least do it right.
Ditto on that one, Wc65mustang (and Quackfat). Our entry into this foray was via an $800 CDP. Our current source runs just over $5K, and it's hard to fathom that they are of the same format. There is a sonic chasm between the two.
Remember when Nakamichi was considered high end equipment? Years ago I had a NAD cd player that had recurring problems with the drawer. Later, I bought a Nakamichi MB-2, which, out of necessity had to be swapped for an MB-2S multiplayer. It seems the designers thought they had to re-engineer the mechanism for switching discs. It's a 7 disc "stacking" player. Has (for lack of better description) a little elevator which rises or falls to the appropriate level for that disc to play. They call it a "7 disc Musicbank System." On the original MB-2 player it was very glitchy and potential for big problems loading and unloading the machine. If a disc is not centered properly when the tray closes, the disc can get caught internally into a spot in the elevator where it's not supposed to go. Basically jams the entire thing, cd player becomes useless unless serviced. In their brilliance to correct the situation, Nakamichi, in stead of redesigning the unit, came out with a tweaked version, MB-2S. "S" stands for "shaker", which means the tray motor does not simply retract the tray, but instead begins retracting, then swiftly extends outward again and finally retracts. It "shakes" the cd in an effort to seat it so that it doesn't get jammed up in the "elevator". Quite simply one of the most phenomenal pieces of idiotic audio engineering I have ever seen. It was, to me, an expensive piece, having bought it new about 13 years ago for about $600. At the time I was easily impressed with "different" audio components and when the audio salesman indicated the MB-2S was the new and improved version to correct the loading problem, I accepted it rather than seeing it as a reason to reject the component. Being exceptionally cautious in using it, I have had little complaint. The sound is fine, and it's been fun to watch people's faces when they see the wacky movement of the tray and their surprise when I keep sticking discs into what looks like a single cd player. Makamichi was king of tape decks. Never should've messed with cd.
"there is always the audiophile safe word "synergy" wich is the end to any debate, an overused word IMHO"
i disagree with that. in fact, the speakers i'm listening to right now (dynaudio 1.3 mkIIs wired with silver in teflon) didn't impress me at all in a friends system, but i love them in mine. i can say the same thing about a lot of equipment as well. i think synergy and proper impedance matching is very important.
I dunno about these $20,000 units, that seems crazy, maybe $5000 tops, after that owners just talk themselves into loving them, and nothing you can say will get them to admit it could have been done for alot less...and there is always the audiophile safe word "synergy" wich is the end to any debate, an overused word IMHO
" the difference between a $500 cd player and a $5000 cd player is not very big"
you haven't listened to the right players yet. i've never been a big fan of wadia, krell, shanling or many other high dollar players. however, imho it's a different ballgame all together when you're talking about mods or all-out redesigns. i've got about five grand into my current player and after listening to it next to set ups like the meitnerand the zanden, i'm very pleased with my investment.
IMHO law of diminishing returns kick in much quicker when it comes to cd players, the difference between a $500 cd player and a $5000 cd player is not very big, unlike speakers or turntables. I personally don't see any merit in purchasing a cd player costing more than $2000.
I have carefully heard the Pioneer PD-91, Marantz CD94, Sony CDP-X55ES, Denon DCD-S10 and some others costing between $1000-2000 and I think they sounded as goodif not better than the several $,$$$ Wadia.
By the way, this is one of the so many good threads on A'Gon. Very beneficial to some, at least I found it so.
well, not to be difficult, but i did hear a modified pioneer 563a ($500 total) head to head against the scd777es here in my system. that was the day i removed the sony from my system. i was embarassed for the sony. and i dissagree about the modification potencial of the sony over the denon... no more volly from me.
Quackfat,I'm talking stock player here.You had to spend $4500 to "redesign completely" a player that was so much better than a 777ES(50# Boombox).It does'nt matter what your player sounds like now,because that money could have been spent modifying any player and it would all come down to someones preferences.My original comment went back to the stock players,and yes,the 2900 is far inferior to the old Sony still for sound,build quality,or the transport alone.My friend owns a 2900 and it is a good DVD player,but has a distinct disadvantage being that it is a DVD player and corners must be cut in the sound department.I'm sure your $4500 "completely redesigned"DVD player sounds better than an un-modified 777es,but the same money can be spent upgrading this player and it would come down to personal taste for most.We don't need to serve and volley here,my comments were only in regards to stock players and your original comments.Gary.
"Sound,build quality,transport and modification potential all go to the 777ES,IMO."
please don't take this the wrong way, but i'll put the sonic proformance of my 2900 up against any scd777es, stock or modified. the old sony is simply out of its league here.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion Quackfat,it's just my opinion that these two machines are'nt close in any catagory in stock form.Sound,build quality,transport and modification potential all go to the 777ES,IMO.This is all in stock form as I have not heard a super modified 2900 yet,but I am anxious to.I have heard a modified 777ES and it destroys it's stock counterpart.That being said,I have heard nothing but good things about the modified 2900 sound,so maybe I'll try talking my buddy into investing some money in his machine.Enjoy your player,Gary.
guss2 says, "What does that make an un-modded Denon 2900,a clock radio?"
perhaps, but it's at least a player well worth modifying. i had mine redesigned completely and it is absolutely amazing. sorry if i insulted a player that you like, it's just my opinion.
I find it no one has mentioned the ultra priced expensive gear...surely in terms of "for the money", the word cdp has to be somewhere in this category. Cmon, take off your gloves.
For example, I like the Zanden but for US$45,000? C'mon!
Welcome to the 21st century. The computer is the ultimate transport, superior in every respect compared to the stand-alone CD players that actually have to read flaky CDs (and you have to actually insert a new one to hear another album) in real time and use a jitter-prone connection to send the data to a decent DAC.
Joey, you could take Liz's tack and smash them both with a hammer just to save face. That would give you a reprieve on the suicide thing. The problem comes when you attempt to buy a replacement. How long before the new one shows up on this thread??? How long should you wait until you are sure your choice is 'safe?'
One problem with this thread is that if you already have one (or more) of the CD players mentioned it this thread, it can be bad to see them listed. I have both the Linn Genki and the Shanling T100. After reading this thread, should I just commit suicide, or what?
my Sony 9000ES, players costing 1/3 (when it was new) were more musical to me, I have heard Naim at a few occasions and must agree very uninvolving, unmusical unless player
unless you like metal, rap and similar loudly crap :)
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