Mikirob, Thanks for thinking of me. I'm still shuttling back and forth between Indiana and Tennessee. I am slowly getting the Tennessee house all set up for the final move when our house in Indy sells. It is tough getting any listening time in. Maybe 6 hours a week if I'm lucky, and most of that is with the main rig. The secondary rig gets a few hours a month. Still love the dynamo, and I am eager to begin some serious tube rolling once I have more time.
This is a busy time. Two houses to take care of, and two days a week lost to travel. The kids were all home over the holidays, so family time has been a high priority. But in time everything will fall into place. |
Hey Brownsfan,
Once you're settled in, just think about all the mountain trails and adventurous hikes in store for you.
Best Regards,
Charles, |
Folks,
Somebody further up the thread just asked about where the 10.1 ohm output impedance figure came from. I don't have the issue sitting here in front of me, but I'm pretty certain Dick Olsher took the measurement himself as opposed to getting it from Coincident. I'm guessing he was trying to figure out the odd results he felt he was getting. Israel Blume didn't challenge the figure in his Manufacturer Response, so I guess it's pretty accurate. Not like TAS to take measurements, but there you go. |
Grannyring:
As to your question about a 100% hard-wired SET kit, the Bottlehead Paramount 300B mono blocks come pretty close. There are, I believe, two very small PCB's in each block, but for the most part it's hard wired all the way.
Although the Kit 1 is a larger and more elaborate project than the Bottlehead Seduction phono pre that I built about 4 years ago, in some ways the Bottlehead was the harder build precisely because it's almost entirely hard wired. There are teeny little resistors that, for example, had to be soldered in between the pins of the valve bases.
That said, the Bottlehead designs are terrific (Paul Joppa is a first-rate designer). Additionally, their manuals are excellent and their online support forums are very active with supportive users. No question goes unanswered more than an hour or two.
I seriously, seriously considered building the Paramounts with their Bee Pre 300B based preamp instead of the AN Kit 1. In fact, I could've saved myself around $700 on the whole package during their Black Friday sale. But by the time you bought those three kits, the cost was about even with the AN Kit 1, and I'd also decided I wanted to simplify my rig down to an integrated amp.
Anyway, Grannyring, if you're interested in building a hard wired set kit, I'd give the Bottlehead Paramounts a serious look. Additionally, if you buy a preamp and amp together, you save 10% off the total. |
Mikirob!
I think she'd love building that Kit. It's kinesthetically very pleasing to watch the thing come together. I especially enjoyed populating the PCB's with the resistors... it's somehow very satisfying.
I'll repeat what I said earlier. It's like cooking a meal. If you enjoy the process of chopping, blending, and so on, you'll get good results. If you're in a hurry to eat, you may not. So if your wife can take pleasure in the build process itself, she'll have a blast with it. |
Charles, I was getting 1 to 2 hikes a week in up until Thanksgiving. I'm booked on the house this week and next, then my boots go back on. |
Rebbi,
I've developed much respect for Paul Joppa based on his contributions and demeanor on the Audio Asylum SET forum. I also appreciate the input of Gordon Rankin(Wavelength Audio) who posts there sometimes. I believe Dennis Fraker is talented and has much to offer but he's certainly a polarizing person on that site. Joppa seems to avoid the "drama queen" behavior that appears there at times. I'm not surprised that his Bottlehead kits are well done. |
Charles,
Yes. "Caucasian Blackplate"is another Bottlehead employee who often posts on SET Asylum. But I agree that there's a lot of personalized vitriol on that board that can make it difficult to wade through.
Interesting thing about the Bottlehead designs is that they feature Joppa's "parafeed" topology (I have no idea what that means so don't ask) and they also are solid state rectified rathe than tube rectified, for whatever that's worth. |
Back ordered tubes and a few other odds and ends arriving from Brian today! Woo-hoo! |
Rebbi,
Thank you for all the info. My wife is a fabulous cook and loves the process of elaborate meals (she does it to relax) so I expect she'll enjoy building the kit after our move and we're settled in.
Brownsfan, glad you get in some hiking as well as listening. I' ve moved a lot in my life, so I know well the drill you are going through. Best of luck, anxious to compare notes at a later date. |
Charles,
Thanks for the good wishes and for being such a gentleman. |
Rebi, great thread. What 3 recommendations do you have for the mm de capo's..without spending over 2500 if possible..ty |
Nyaudio98,
I don't have personal experience with them, but the various Primaluna integrated amps seem to be a good match with the De Capo's from what I've read. Look at the used market for bargains there.
I also thought that the Manley gear I had (I had the Mahi mono-blocks but you could look for the Stingray integrated version) had nice synergy with the De Capos, but again, you'd be looking at the used marked since the prices at Manley have really shot up recently.
If you want to go SET, there are several options. You could probably get good pricing on an Antique Sound Lab SET if you call Tash at Reference 3A. You can also go to
http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/nirvanaamps.html
and check out their 300B SET, which is ridiculously low priced at $1550 with free shipping! Granted, I don't know anything about that amp beyond what's on the web site, but you get a satisfaction guarantee.
I would stay away from cheap, no-name tube amps from eBay, for sure. |
Great info as always Rebbi. |
Just letting everyone know that the Audio Note Kit 1 is built and burning in. Sonic impressions will follow!! |
Any opinions on direct coupled 300b SET amps? Any owners here that can comment on not using a transformer or capacitor to couple? |
Have never heard a direct coupled 300b. There is an electra-print direct coupled 300b amp on ebay now. the auction ends today |
Ya, I am looking at it.... |
Gannyring, 1 hour left. You can go to the electra-print website and see the schematic. Very tempting but I have no idea how it sounds - Jet |
I heard the Electra Fidelity 300b amp driving Cessaro horns at CES last year, simply terrific sound. It just needs the right speaker match in order to sing. |
In hindsight I just realized I may be talking about a different model amplifier. The one I heard in Las Vegas last year retailed for about $10,000. |
somebody got these amps for $1375+160 shipping. |
I listened to the top Supratek DHT, two box, tube regulated preamp last week. It has a switch allowing the owner to switch between transformer coupled and capacitor coupled. I prefered the capacitor coupled option as the highs were less grainy, more extend with improved smoothness. It this design the transformer option limited the top end.
This got me to thinking more about direct coupled as the best option. It is an interesting design. |
Forgot to mention I bid up to $1250 on that direct coupled set of 300b amps. I just did not want to go higher without hearing them! |
Lots of direct coupled 45 and 2A3 SET amps but not too many 300b amps. Harder to drive a 300b tube without a cap or an interstage transformer. Plus a direct coupled amp has to be done just right or all sorts of bad things can happen of there is a parts or tube failure. As Charles points out, Electra-Print amps must sound really good and have a great reputation but we dont seem to hear very much about them. Their transformers are more well known. |
Jet,
From what I understand a direct coupled 300b is difficult to execute for the reasons you mentioned. As far as capacitor vs interstage transformer it comes down to part quality and implementation. A good quality cap beats an average quality transformer. If both are of high quality it becomes a matter of design and preference. Companies that offer both such as Audio Note select interstage transformers for their upper tier products. Good transformers don't come cheap. I know excellent results are obtainable with eirher choice. Engineneer Andy Grove of Audio Note has written interesting articles on this topic. Strong arguments can be presented for either approach.
Charles, |
Not arguing which sounds better as they both have tradeoffs I have heard in various preamp designs from Coincident, Supratek and others. I just wonder if direct coupled is the best option for sound quality. The scematic looks pretty simple really on the EP 300b DRD amp. May be worth building a set of these?
Jet, the voltage on a 300b DRD amp is 700VDC! |
Yep and that's one of the drawbacks of direct coupled amps...the B+ is usually very high. Especially for a 300b amp. |
Grannyring, If you have the spare parts building one would be a challenge but it would probably sound great. Plus you have Jack's notes on the power supply and transformer choice. |
Jet, I am going to build a set of 300b amps or heavily modify an exsisting outstanding specimen. Just doing my research now and learning all I can before I decide on the direction. I came close to building the AN Monoblock amps with the two 300bs in paralell. I am not sure I want them transformer coupled however. I would also like the ability to switch from one to two 300b output tubes depending on the type of music being played.
The Manley Neo Classic amps fit the bill and I bet with the right mods/upgrades they could be wonderful. Not sure however, as they are built with circuit boards which I don't as much as point to point wiring. |
Hi Bill,
I didn't know that your speakers were that efficient for these types of low power amplifiers. I was under the impression that they require more power to be driven optimally. I believe that a DC 300b SET amplifier would be a challenging but doable project for you. I say have the fun and go for it!
Charles, |
Grannyring, I am thinking about building a 2nd 300b amp. I am not sure a PSE amp can be switched to a SE amp. The output transformers usually have different primary impedance for PSE and SE amps the the current rating for PSE will be much higher than SE. I would ask Jack at Electra-Print or Mike at Magnaquest about this |
Jetrexpro, read up on the Manley Neoclassic amps. They have such a switch and custom tranny. Interesting.
Charles, well my speakers never dip below 6 ohms and are about 92db efficient. I also sit nearfield. The key is I don't listen to music at high volume ever. No louder than 85 DB continues on a day I am off the leash.
My current tube amps put out some 20-25 watts in triode mode and I never push them hard at all.
Like to have two amps on hand. My powerful SS amps and a tube amp to put into rotation. |
Bill,
You should be OK given your listening parameters, and with normal hearing ability, 85 db is pretty darn loud enough. I know some on this site like to listen on average at 90-100 db. Too loud for me regardless of the components or system in place(and risky for one's hearing IMO). To each their own as they say. I thought the Manley Neo-Classic 300b allowed switching between SET and push pull. Not sure if the output transformer needed for that is ideal for either topology as there are different requirements. I heard that amp long ago at CES one year. Transformers best suited for SET are 'air gapped' to my understanding, PP doesn't require this feature. It makes me wonder if this amplifier is better in PP than SET mode. The right output transformer is critical to optimal SET performance. Interesting concept but how much compromise is involved?
Charles, |
BrownsFan, try icefreebop@yahoo.com |
Len, got a phasing alert on that site. BTW, I'm loving the Guarnari Sibelius. |
I can't use A'gon mail, long story short. Patmore won't be replacing F-D anytime soon . Has a voice more suited to early music IMO .
He sings on "The Tallis Scholars Sing Josquin" Gimell CDGIM 206 , the Josquin Missa Pange lingua is at a higher spiritual level than even Bach or Schutz .
The CD on how to sing in German is F-D /Moore EMI "Great Recordings" 7243 5 67559 2 5. Schwanengesang + Erlkonig in FAB mono ! |
Len, early music is Padmore's wheelhouse. No doubt. I read a review of his Schubert that said the same thing as you. For me, Padmore pushes all the right buttons, but his is a different take and will not suit everyone.
We will wait a long time for someone to displace F-D from his wheelhouse.
I have a little experience with Josquin's music. I will check out the Missa. I'll be shocked if it surpasses Schutz or the master. After all, not only were Schutz and Bach geniuses, but they were also Lutherans! :)
I will however keep an open ear and open mind. I got a Monteverdi Vespers in the mail today. I really do want to dip a bit more into the BS (before Schutz) music.
Peace and long life! |
It may be hard for WELS trained ears to hear what a plainchant Mass can do but I'm ecumenical ! LOL
The Tallis Scholars recording of Josquin was Grammaphone 2007(?)record of the year . Prepare to be schocked
Not saying its better music qua music but that it hits a higher spiritual level IMO. IF I could only keep ONE CD or LP the Tallis Josquin would be it . |
Oh, Bill what version of the Vespers did you get?
Peace be upon you . |
This thread has taken an exit. |
Roxy,
Just a detour until Rebbi has something to report. |
Roxy and Charles:
I should be receiving my Driver Board from Digital Pete in Florida tomorrow (although they're talking about an ice storm here late tonight so that may be delayed). Once I've installed the new board I'll report back. Hang on... |
Len, I picked up the William Christie Monteverdi Vespers on Erato. BTW, in the spirit of respecting the thread, Padmore sounds better through an SET amp. |
03-04-15: Rebbi
Roxy and Charles:
I should be receiving my Driver Board from Digital Pete in Florida tomorrow (although they're talking about an ice storm here late tonight so that may be delayed). I was in upstate NY last week, 17 degrees below zero with snow and ice and nobody bats an eye, business as usual. Here in Austin somebody sees a blip on the radar and they shut it down, my wife's school was called off yesterday afternoon. I mean school for TODAY! She's in the bedroom sleeping and the streets are dry as a bone and it's 30 degrees. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you'll get your board. |
I'm pulling for you Rebbi, and Charles, of course it's just a detour, I'm just impatient. I would like to see this resolved . You'll be having some fun soon Rebbi. |
My apologies Roxy,I know how difficult it is to move ones mouse over a line.
Won't happen again. |
I was going to see Kevin Eubanks & Stanley Jorden together tonight (waited three months) but the show has been postponed due to snow storm. |
I like that Brownsfan and Schubert are having a interesting discussion about music on this thread while we wait for Rebbi's board. This is useful and enlightening. In fact I'll be buying most of those CDs. Please keep the discussion going... |
Alright Schubert, I will take my lumps. It is not a big deal at all. |
