Rebi, I have a pair of deCapo Bes. They are sitting idle in my bedroom, along with a coincident dynamo amp and a Denis Had Inspire KT66. I also have 8 WPC Coincident Frankenstein amps. Give me a couple days and I will give you a rundown on how the 3 amps drive the deCapos.
I suspect the Frank's and dynamo will be fine, and the KT66 may be marginal.
Charles is correct with respect to transformers, but the inspire and dynamo are both decent inexpensive amps. |
JMC, you are correct regarding the KT66, but I did want to throw it into the mix since I have it on hand. If it turned out to be a stellar performer with the deCapos, I'm sure ReBbi would want to know, SET or not.
With a very quick, initial listen back a couple months ago, the Inspire KT66 was much better with my Coincident Triumph Extreme IIs (94 dB) than with the de Capos. That was a 10 minute audition a while ago, so I think a more serious listen would be prudent.
Rebbi, I just got back in town after a whirlwind tour of the upper midwest. 1480 miles in three days, trying to get 3 kids back to school in two different states. I will get on this tomorrow evening and get you some preliminary results over the next couple days. |
Rebbi, Ive had a chance to get some listening in over the last couple days. I have a lot of thoughts, but I will try to confine them to the relevant questions.
1. Can an SET amp satisfactorily drive the deCapo Bes ?
2. Would such an amp represent a substantial improvement over your Mahis?
I have some preliminary impressions to share. First of all, let me give you a brief summary of the system into which the 3 amps were inserted for comparison.
The source was a ModWright Sony HAPZ1, feeding a Coincident Statement Line Stage preamp via VH audio Symmetry ICs. The preamp fed signal to the amps via a VH audio Spectrum Ag IC. Signal out to the speakers was via Coincident CST 1 cables. My Coincident Triumph Extreme II monitors were available for reference. The 3 amps available were Coincident Frankenstein 300B monoblocks, a Coincident Dynamo stereo amp, and a Dennis Had Inspire KT66 amp. In addition, I have recent memory of the deCapos driven in the same system by my now departed Cary 500.1 SS monoblocks, which are 500 WPC into 8 Ohms.
Music used for the evaluation were the following albums played back via the MW Sony HAPZ1. Shostakovich, Symphony No 13, Babi Yar, Mahler Symphony No 3, Neil Young, Live at Massie Hall.
At the outset, let me say that the Inspire KT66 isn't going to be suitable for anything but low dynamic range acoustical music with the deCapos. I evaluated both the KT66s and EL34s, and both 6SN7 and 6SL7 inputs. The 6SL7 was certainly a better choice. The KT66 tubes were better than the EL34s, but really, no matter what I did, mid bass and below was very soft. It is not an SET, but it was around, so I threw it into the mix. The amp mated well with the speaker above the mid-bass, producing some heavenly tones utterly incoherent with the soft, slow, muddy lower registers. It gave a plausible presentation with the Neil Young, but utterly failed on the Mahler and Shostakovich.
The Dynamo was a much different story. Keep in mind that the dynamo is brand new. Last night was its first time out of the box, so there is still some break in to be had. Keep in mind also, that this amp is using the cheap Chinese new production tubes that are supplied, and they also have no break in time. All that said, I immediately perceived some synergy between the dynamo and the deCapos. I am pretty excited about this pairing for my bedroom system, especially since the dynamo has volume control and won't require a preamp for a single source system. There were some issues. The upper registers became hard and unpleasant when driven too hard, say, 94 dB+, and there were indications that the Dynamo fell short in the lower registers at high volume, although the low strings were generally well reproduced. I suspect the harshness in the upper registers will be addressed with burn in and tube selection. Perhaps the lower register issues can be mitigated also with better tubes (especially the rectifier). That said, the Dynamo drove the deCapos well through the first movement of the Mahler 3. The sharp, quick, tympani attacks were handled well. Of more concern were the sustained low strings passages. These were not handled as satisfactorily as when the deCapos were driven by the Franks or the Cary SS amps. There were some stunningly beautiful moments. At about 10 minutes into the final movement of Babi Yar, there is a bassoon solo followed by a violin solo. The Dynamo/deCapo combo reproduced this with a harmonic sophistication unmatched by any other combination of amps and speakers I tried. Yes, even the Franks with the deCapos or the Triumphs with either the Franks or the Dynamo, did not match the level of shear beauty in this short passage. It is important to reflect on this, in that it underscores the importance of system synergy. It is also important to note that the beauty of this passage hit my emotional response button in a big way. It is that response that fuels my obsessive expenditure of cash, so this was a big deal for me. It is also important to not take this out of context. For most of the rest of the music, the Franks were far superior to the Dynamo.
My very preliminary listen to the deCapos driven by the Coincident 300b Frankensteins was more than satisfactory. Again, this was a quick preliminary listen, but the Franks drove some clean 99 dB peaks in the treble with no distress. My thinking with the Dynamo is that one should probably go no louder than 95 dB peaks at the listening position, in my case, back about 11 ft from the speakers.
So can a flee watt SET drive the deCapos? I would argue yes, based on my limited experience in driving them with the Coincident Frankensteins and Coincident Dynamo. Some of this will depend on music preference, room size, listening levels, and ancillary equipment, but it is something that can work very nicely.
I could make a case that the Franks drove the deCapos better than the Cary 500.1s. This is not just a simple case of WPC. The Triumphs were clearly better than the deCapos with the Cary SS amp, but the gap closed substantially when the two speakers were driven by the Coincident tube amps. |
Charles and Rebbi, when I first purchased the deCapos, the Cary SS amps were all I had around here to drive them with. Based on their performance with the Cary's I had a hard time figuring out why so many people were so enraptured with them. They were good, but clearly a notch below my Magnepan 3.7Rs. When I picked up the Triumph extreme monitors, they, to my ears, really separated themselves as superior to both the Maggies and the deCapos.
It seems the deCapos are a different animal driven by tube amps. I am very pleased with how well they pair with the dynamo. I suspect that paired with a good source, this will be exactly what I wanted in my bedroom system.
What I can't answer is how does this relate to the Mahis? I've heard the neoclassic 250s, but not the Mahis. I suspect the Franks would be a good step up from the Mahis, but this exercise taught me not to presuppose results. I can't even begin to speculate on the Mahi's vs the Dynamo.
We listen with our ears and our brains, not with our brains alone. What is also unpredictable is how a given individual will respond to a given presentation. |
Rebbi, no problem, my friend. It was a lot of fun and provided a nice diversion from some mind numbingly boring chores. It also gave me a chance to firm up my plans for my bedroom system. I'm sticking with the deCapos, and I will be driving them with the Dynamo.
As for what I think, I will offer two thoughts.
1. I think you will be very happy with what you hear if you pair your deCapos with a good SET!
2. I think Coincident makes very good SETs, and both the dynamo and franks are excellent pieces at their respective price points.
I haven't heard the ASL or Decware amps, so I can't comment on them.
|
Speavler, Thanks for the comments. The 6SN7 I used was a Class A Sophia, vs a cheapo $15 6SL7. Please let me know how the KT88s work out for you. If one could address the soft muddy bottom end, this could be a pretty nice amp. I really liked what I heard north of the mid bass. It did work a little better with my 94dB efficient Triumphs, but not nearly good enough. I'd like to hand on the the inspire if I can make it sing. |
Saki, Will do. Be patient, the dynamo is for a bedroom system for which I have not yet bought a source. However, I think I will leave it downstairs and use it for background music during the day while I am working around the house so I can get some hours on it. It is shockingly good for the money. I really want to see what some hours and a better tube complement brings. |
Charles, good question. I'm inclined to say no, it's not a Frank Jr. I like the dynamo a lot, and have listened to it for hours on end for the last 3 days and have really enjoyed it. The more hours I put on it, the more some of the harshness at high frequency subsides, so it is clearly not close to being burned in yet. Yet, when I put the Franks in, Oh my! They are most certainly in a different league, and are worth every penny of 5 x the cost of the dynamo.
The incredibly rich harmonic pallet, seemingly endless power reserves (no, that is not a joke), and the beautiful air, breathtaking decays, etc that make the Franks what they are won't be there in the Dynamo.
Think Monet vs Ansel Adams. Both great artists and I love them both, but they are very different.
To me, the Franks don't sound like a tube amp. They certainly don't sound like a solid state amp. They don't sound like any other amp I have ever heard. I guess that is what Israel means when he says the sound like nothing.
The dynamo sounds like a good amp, with all the clues to let you know it is a tube amp. You get enough of that big beautiful, fat, tube bloom in all the right places to let you know its a tube amp. It has me wanting to see what kind of tube loveliness I can dial in with some tube rolling.
With the Franks and a great piece of music, I just sit there in awe. When I run for president, my platform will be "A Frankenstein in every house!" Wonder how that will play? |
JMC and Charles, I noticed a substantially better stage with the dynamo. I'm inclined to agree with Charles regarding the transformers. I can grab one end of the inspire and easily pick it up with one hand. Not so the dynamo. I didn't weigh them, but it seems the dynamo is much heavier.
I am willing to hear Speavlers comments once he tries the KT88s, but I also am not going to spend much money on tubes for this amp.
Straight up, as shipped the dynamo is much better and doesn't require a preamp. Since I already have the inspire, I would keep it around for a change of flavor if its limitations could be inexpensively addressed. |
Mikirob, I had a feeling that dynamo wasn't going to last long. I assure you I have no connection with the seller.
As Charles stated, the dynamo is brand new. My rectifier tube is arcing on start up, so it looks like I will be looking into rectifiers sooner rather than later. As I have stated, my dynamo is far from burned in now, and it is clear the tubes aren't the best in the world. Neither simpatico nor gemutlich. I'm thinking I will talk to Brent Jesse on the EL34s, after I get a few more hours of burn in. I take it he likes the Groove Tubes, which are probably in a reasonable price range for the dynamo. Where this thing ends up with the right tubes and some hours on the transformers remains to be seen. As I have listened to this amp, I have thought back to my first integrated amp, which was a 1972 vintage ss Kenwood for which I payed something like $360. It is just astonishing how much value the dynamo represents as compared to most of the stuff I have owned in the past.
You are going to love the Frankenstiens, They are special. |
Mikirob, I thought about the old SEDs as well. I heard them in a friend's
Manley and they sounded pretty good. It would be interesting to hear Israel's
thoughts on tubes for the dynamo, so if you contact him, please let me know
what he says. PM if you like. I also thought about the Psvane blacks. Sophia
just released an EL34 a couple days ago. I thought I'd wait long enough to
see what people are saying about that tube before spending a lot on
something else. Good NOS EL34s are getting a little scarce, and pricey.
My Franks came with NOS GE 5U4GBs. I thought about trying one one those
in the dynamo, and I also have a couple of JJ EL34s that came with the inspire
amp, so no harm in trying them. I think they might come from the same
plant as the Groove Tubes, not sure.
My guess is those Sylvanias will be a substantial upgrade over the stock
tubes.
Charles has been a faithful Apostle of the Coincident gear for a long time,
while being very knowledgable about other gear as well. He is a gentleman
and a scholar-- a real asset to this forum. In addition to the reviews on
Coincident gear, which aren't all that plentiful, reading his posts really
convinced me to take the plunge on my CSL preamp. Once that happened,
the Triumphs and Franks were just a matter of time. |
Mikirob, very glad to hear that you like the Dynamo so much. As for me, I am using a 1967 Blackburn Mullard GZ34, which I do think this amp likes, but otherwise I am still using the stock tubes. I bought a new house and am preparing for the move to Tennessee, so I have precious little time for listening now. What little time I have is reserved for the Frankensteins. Some retirement! Too many 10-16 hour days.
I will have a dedicated listening room in the new place. At this point, I'm thinking the secondary system using the dynamo will either go in the bedroom as planned or perhaps in the living room. |
Thanks Charles. I'm hoping to hike 3-4 times a week, more initially. In recent years, I've been doing somewhere between 70-90 miles a week on my hiking vacations. I usually drop about 5-7 pounds and feel terrific. There is no doubt this will be the best thing I could do health wise (both mental and physical), provided I can stay out of the way of the bears, timber rattlers, and yellow jackets.
When I'm hiking, I do miss my music in the evenings, along with my wife and dog, of course. When I return to Indiana, I miss the hiking and beautiful scenery in the Smokies terribly. I had thought to buy a little condo down there, but my wife shocked me suggesting we just move lock stock and barrel. After carefully considering the move for 0.5 nanoseconds, I said, well, OK, if you insist.
I concluded that it would be easier to move the family to the Smokys than to move the Smoky Mountains to Indiana, but there are days when that judgement seams questionable. So much so, that my wife and I occasionally questioned the move. However, we finally found THE house, and almost have our home in Indiana on the market, so perhaps we are almost done. I hope we will be fully out of Indiana before the end of the year. For my wife, she gets her dream house and a retirement at the tender young age of 52. I get a 24 year old dream fulfilled.
For all of you mid to late career guys that tire of the daily grind, chin up! Dreams do come true. |
Thanks Mikirob, Yes, please keep me posted on your tube rolling exploits with the dynamo.
As for me, I just got the Mullard CV378s from Coincident and stuck them in the Franks. Very nice tubes right out of the box. Definitely an improvement over the GE5U4GBs that came with the Franks. I noticed right off that the CV378s "rectified" a bit of a persistent problem with harshness at some frequencies in French Horns. I was beginning to think this was a room problem.
I know exactly what you mean about the timbre being on the mark. I am hyper sensitive to anything being slightly off in that area, which is one of the things that draws me to Coincident gear. The coincident stuff just gets out of the way and lets the music happen.
I'm engrossed in the Bach Cello suites now. My brothers, this is why we work so hard! What profound music, so well played, so well reproduced, right there in my own living room.
I am sorely tempted to ask Israel if he has a stray single to give a whirl in the dynamo after I get moved. Clearly, the amp deserves better than the stock tubes.
As I think you have discovered, the dynamo is just stupid good for the money. But you haven't lived until you have heard the Franks.
|
Charles, well said. As I have grown, matured, and become more experienced in the world of music reproduction in the home -- isn't that better terminology than audio? I have noticed that I tended to agree with certain reviewers, tended to like certain "house sounds" and found myself tending to "nod my head and smile in agreement" with certain audiogon posters. I hear as these people hear and I value what they value. These are the people whose ears I trust.
I'd love to get together with about a half dozen or dozen of you guys and do a Cleveleand Orchestra concert in Severence Hall, then do a night in a Jazz venue of similar stature. I would expect extraordinary insight with respect to performance, but I might be most interested in your take on the sound. Stage, timbre, decay etc, as compared to what you hear in your home systems. I'd expect that you and I might find similar attributes of a particular performance notable.
I had a long, long, discussion with a member of my local orchestra once. He was trying to convince me that I should buy tickets in the dress circle, and forget about the main floor 5th row center seats I have loved for so many years. I tried to explain to him that while the dress circle might make sense from the perspective of the composer, a professional musician, or a professor of music theory, I was looking for a different experience. I wanted the upper harmonics of the cello, I wanted to hear the conductor instruct the principle cellist "non troppo, non troppo!" I wanted to watch the drops of sweat fly from the conductors face and see the fatigue in the faces of the violinists as they labored through LvBs unreasonable demands. I explained to him that I could get the dress circle experience at home.
My point is that even amongst those of us that favor acoustical instruments, there is a fairly wide range of preference as to what music reproduction in the home should sound like. It does not surprise me that a jazz aficionado should share a great deal with a lover of chamber music/5th row center guy like me. Accuracy of timbre is essential for lovers of acoustical music, but that is just the first layer. As you peel the onion, the dress circle guys will differentiate from the main floor folks, the main floor front folks from the main floor rear folks, etc. For those who are fans of electronically amplified genres of music, I'm sure the same is true.
The coincident line is going to appeal to a certain value system. As an owner of the Franks, dynamo, CSL, Triumph Extreme IIs, and having auditioned the PREs, I find a remarkable consistency running throughout. As I added more pieces, I got increasingly closer to the listening experience I sought.
Like you, I have walked away from some pretty well regarded and very expensive gear that just didn't do it for me. I could hear far too much that wasn't going to wear well. I'm in a very agreeable place with my system right now, finally, at long last. |
Goldeneraguy,
Thanks for the kind words. I have indeed suffered long. Perhaps things will turn around for both the Browns and the Cavs soon. We will see. Out west, it is a different kind of beauty. The heat would be a show stopper for me, though my wife would love it. I made my first trip to the Smokys at the age of 4, and the beauty left an indelible mark on me. It will be interesting to see how things go. There is certainly a culture shift. I've lived in Ohio and Indiana all my life.
I hope AZ works out for you. Bit more perhaps of a climate and culture change with your move. |
Mrmb, Indiana has been a great place to live, work, and raise a family. People here are friendly and the cost of housing in particular is very favorable. It is not a glamorous location, but there is a lot to like here. I don't feel a compelling desire to leave. It is the draw of the southeastern mountains that motivates me. As long as I am able to hike, I suspect I am going to like my new home. At some point down the road, 10-16 years I hope, I will probably return to some location in the Midwest. Maybe somewhere else.
I have a window of opportunity. My health is good and I have the support of my wife and the financial resources to make the move. It would certainly be easy to stay here, but this is a dream I must chase, or I will regret it once the window of opportunity closes.
It is an experiment for me, much like moving away from Magnepans driven by 1000 WPC ss amps to monitors driven by 8 WPC SETs was an experiment. Hope this experiment turns out as well. |
Charles, I have had good experiences dealing with brent Jesse. I did not see CV378s on his list the last time I looked, but it is worth giving him a call anyway.
Got some more listening in tonight. These CV387s are really opening up.
Mikirob, I also found the Mullard GZ34/5AR4 to be an outstanding rectifier for the dynamo. I've never really found that tube to be all people make it out to be, but in the dynamo, it really shines. I have to tell you, as much as you like the dynamo, you are going to loose your mind when you hear the franks. |
Charles, Last night's session included Schubert's Auf dem Storm for tenor, piano, and French horn. It just blew me away. I finally have a system that gets French horns right. I hope you are able to find a good pair and they work as well for you. You just never know what is going to happen with ebay on NOS tubes. |
Charles, I try to be careful about excessive exuberance, as you may have noted with my reservations on the WE replica 101D. But this CV387 is really good in my system and room. I did some looking around to try to find CV387s, to no avail. It looks like it is ebay or nothing.
I did find some of the rare fat bottle CV387s from the Mullard Wycombe plant. Those are supposed to be even better than the blackburn skinny bottles I got from Israel, but they are 600 for a pair.
I am eager to get your read on the tubes once you get a little burn in time.
I do hope a supply of the skinny bottle blackburns are out there. This is a tube that so far is pushing all the right buttons for me. |
Mikirob, Thanks so much for your kind comments. I am just a passive recipient of this sublime beauty.
Today I meet (on the phone) a decedent of JS Bach. This was the first person I have ever run across with the Bach surname, so I had to ask. Made my day, and I think hers too. I take it she doesn't run into many Bach connoisseurs.
I think frequently about my first rig and music collection. It was a bunch of 78s, mostly of pre WWII vintage, and this huge 78 rpm player that sat on the floor of my bedroom. I used to listen for hours at a time.
I cannot imagine life without music. |
Mikirob, very interesting. Perhaps it was that early exposure to tubes and shellack that started us down this road.
Music, like beer, is best served in glass. |
It is not likely that the ultra expensive gear can ever be considered "the greatest bargain" in a field where diminishing returns so clearly applies. However, one could make a case that a great value is that piece of equipment that delivers the level of performance one seeks, regardless of relative price. What I mean is that pinching pennies to buy something that does not fully satisfy is never a bargain. It is by definition a waste of money.
Since 1990, I have owned a total of nine different amplifiers. The coincident franks are head and shoulders above them all, including amps that cost more. I wouldn't consider replacing them with anything, unless Coincident releases a Mk III model. For me, the value proposition is extremely high. I suppose if one demands top tier performance, and ones price range is 5-20K, then one could certainly consider the Franks a bargain.
In my estimation, the dynamo, at 1.3K is a great bargain with an insanely good value proposition. On sonics alone, it easily matched my 9K retail Cary 500.1 MB amps. It is fortunate that I bought the Franks before the dynamo, otherwise, I might have foolishly denied myself the opportunity to enjoy what top tier performance delivers. My frugal Scottish blood curdles every time I spend big bucks on audio gear.
I would love for someone who knows what they are doing to dissect the Franks and render a judgment on how much of the value proposition is based on physics and how much is based on business. With the Franks, are we seeing a brilliant design delivering better performance with lower cost, or are we seeing Coincident's business model permitting a focus on design as opposed to marketing? My guess is that the extraordinary value in the Coincident line depends on both physics and business. Whatever the answer is, it is clear Mr. Blume is doing something right. |
Rebbi, Ignoring the huge difference in power, on the basis of sound quality alone, to my ears the dynamo was easily on a par with my Cary 500.1 MB amps which retail for about 9K. I do perceive a classic tube amp sound. There is midrange magic with the dynamo. Wonderful sophistication in the upper harmonics. In a double blind test, you would pick it out as a tube amp quickly.
The rectifier tube that came stock with my dynamo was junk. It began to arc with just a few hours. I had a spare NOS Mullard Blackburn GZ34 that I put in which is a great tube with this amp.
I really love this little amp. On the basis of sound quality alone, this is probably second only to my Coincident Frankensteins of all the amps I have ever owned. It is good with the stock tubes, but as Mikirob has pointed out, you are going to want to start tube rolling when you see what it is capable of.
Mine is still sitting idle until I get phase one of the move complete. I am doing all my listening with the Franks right now, but I am eager to get my dynamo up and running again. |
Mikirob and Charles, For two decades I stuck with the Magnepan/SS amp route. This worked well for me because of my preference for large scale orchestral works, because of my insistence on true timbre, and because Magnepan offers so much speaker for the money. In my opinion, Magnepans remain best suited for this type of music.
As I began to become more and more focused on chamber music, the inability of Magnepans to portray quartets and trios with a reasonable image scale as well as the difficulty in instrument localization due to violins crossing over from the midrange to the tweeter became increasingly frustrating. A couple of years ago I started a thread asking for advice on assembling a second system specifically optimized for chamber music. I got a lot of good suggestions, but that project was put on hold due to my retirement and the impending move. During that period, I picked up a Coincident Statement Line stage and was of course profoundly impressed with it, and also during that period, my plans for a second system morphed into plans for a bedroom system. I began to pick up used speakers and amps that I thought might work well for me. Then one day, a used pair of Coincident Triumph Extreme Mk IIs came up for sale. I snatched them up and went to Tennessee on a house hunting trip. When I returned, the speakers were delivered the next day. I set them up in my main rig and gave a listen. I was floored with what I heard. I had never, ever, heard that level of coherence, timbral accuracy, detail, speed and sheer musicality from a box speaker under 20K. (Talk about a great bargain, I paid 2.5K for these with stands new. The value proposition is at least equal to the dynamo.) These small monitors pushed the Magnepan 3.7Rs to the side of the room, never to return to use for more than a few minutes. With the Triumph Extremes (at 94 dB efficient) in place in my main rig, the big SS mono blocks were no longer needed. The decision to bring in the Franks was an easy one.
What Mikirob has found to be true of the dynamo, Charles and I know to be generally true of the Coincident line. It brings music of every genre to life. In my case, the sheer beauty of good music through this system has facilitated an expansion into previously unexplored genres. I've dipped for the first time into Italian opera, brought in a few bluegrass disks, and will likely begin an exploration of jazz and renaissance music.
Large scale orchestral works remain the supreme challenge for any system, and no, I can't close my eyes and think I'm sitting main floor center row J Severence Hall during a Mahler 3 performance. But, I hear the music performed in a way that is enormously satisfying.
I will be keeping my eyes open for a used pair of Coincident Super Victory II speakers, which should give me enough low end to get the subs out of the main rig. If that never happens, I will be perfectly happy with what I now have.
What I see is that a pair of golden ears has met up with a brilliant scientific mind. Beneath this, as a foundation, lies a commitment to delivering products at real world prices. Mikirob, it's going to be a lot of fun reading your comments about the CSL and Franks. |
Mikirob, The last time my wife and I moved was in 2002. Our current house was only a mile from the previous one, and it took the old house about 4 months to sell after we closed on our current one. The actual moving process was about as relaxed as it could possibly have been, yet my wife swore she would never move again.
This time is complicated by the fact we are moving 400 miles. But I think you hit on the key. You have to keep in mind the end result, not the day to day and moment to moment grind, stress, annoyance, etc. Your new music room and equipment will make all the pain worthwhile. In my case, I have the rig of my dreams and a beautiful new house within spitting distance of the Smokies.
I see some mighty fine times ahead for both of us. I will be especially interested to see where your search for speakers and source leads. |
Mikirob, the recording I use so frequently for listening tests is from the Kitajenko cycle on Cappriccio. Most of the recordings in the set are pretty good, both from the standpoint of sonics and also based on performance. I also have Barshai and Jansons cycles. |
Mikirob, let me know what you think of this version vs those that you already own. I have not yet downloaded the Jansons and Barshai cycles to my HAPZ1. I need to get that done. I especially like the Jansons 4th. It is the best I have heard. The HAPZ1 makes older recordings sound so good that it is much easier to enjoy them, and the Barshai and Jansons cycles I think are excellent in terms of performance quality. What are your preferred recordings of the Shostakovich symphonies? |
Tubegroover, Rebbi is going to have a long wait for me to sell the dynamo. I intend to have two full systems. The franks will stay in my listening room and the dynamo will serve in the bedroom system.
I absolutely agree though, that Rebbi is taking a chance by selling off his Manley without an A/B. |
Rebbi, my sense is exactly what you got from Steve Deckert. If I were going to use an SET with the deCapos for Mahler, it would have to be something like the Franks. Otherwise, I think I'm going to be very happy with the dynamo driving the deCapos. |
Al and Mapman, Good comments from both of you. One does well not to ignore physics and math. Reality is painfully stubborn and persistent. It won't bend no matter how much you want it to. However, in this field, one's subjective perception of that reality must be the final arbiter. Most of us have been gifted with the ears and minds to discern nuances to which 95% of the human race is oblivious. This is why an A/B against Rebbi's Manleys is the ideal. His room, his gear, his music, and his biases. It is after all his dime, and he has to live with his decision. I can't tell him what he should do, because I've never heard his amps in any system.
I think the Dynamo is an incredible accomplishment, but it has its limitations. You are not going to get a world class amp for 1.3K.
Tim, I also enjoyed your review very much. I also think those new production Gold Lion 5AR4s are quite good. It is nice to see some nice new production tubes that aren't so expensive.
Regardless of Rebbi's final decision, he should be credited with inciting a very agreeable and informative thread. Like Charles, I've got better things to do than get involved in the battleground threads.
Tubegroover, I urge caution on the Coincident gear. It is addictive. |
Saki, I'm still lurking. I'm pretty busy now maintaining two houses and trying to get the new one set up for my wife and dogs.
Your question is hard to answer. I'm fairly articulate,but I may need to resort to some analogies.
I have a nice little red accord couple with a 6 speed manual and a V6 engine. It's fun to drive and it scoots pretty good. Compare it to a red porche 911. Also fun to drive and scoots pretty good. If you got Porche money, go for it. If you have accord money, it's a great car. Be happy and have fun.
Or how about this. Look at a print of a Monet, then go to a museum and look at the original. Then try to explain to someone who has seen neither why the original is worth millions and the print is worth $1.98.
Same way with the amps. If you have 1300,go for the dynamo. If you have 6k go for the Frank's.
The dynamo is in my opinion, a real achievement. If high voltage and current is not a requirement, it will play in the same league as amps costing more.
But the Frank's are something special. They convey music with a beauty that is to die for. |
Saki,Got it. There are others on this thread that could better answer your question. I am rather new to tube amps.
Further, I wouldn't generalize based on the dynamo and the Frank's. They are both Israel's designs, but there are huge differences in transformers, driver tubes, etc.
For what it is worth, which is not much, I'd say the dynamo is a bit more of a classic tube sound. Lots of midrange bloom. The franks have a richness and harmonic sophistication across the frequency spectrum that is unique in my experience.
I encourage others with more experience to contribute their thoughts. |
Charles, can you offer any general thoughts on el34 vs. 301b designs? It is an interesting question. |
Al, as Charles stated, I evaluated my deCapos in a 14 X 19 x 8 room with the dynamo and 3 other amps. I would suggest if rebbi is willing to limit peaks to about 90 to 92 dB he is probably going to be OK with the dynamo. I did not like my 500 wpc ss Cary amps with the deCapos at all. On the other hand, the inspire kt66 amp clearly ran out of steam. In terms of overall performance, wpc is one of many criteria as you know.
What troubles me is that rebbi needs to make a decision without benefit of an audition. I can't predict his assessment of the dynamo vs his Manley. |
Rebbi, I think you have made a great choice. Please keep us all informed on how it goes. BTW, tube selection is part of the fun. A cautious buyer like you will be able to find some cost effective upgrades, 300b excepted. |
Rebbi, I would be very interested in a blow by blow account of your build. Please keep us all informed. |
All of this recent discussion is exactly why there is no substitute for an audition in one's own system and room, fully equipped with one's own music and prejudices and preferences.
Rebbi has done an heroic job of doing his homework. I stand in awe (and envy) of his patient deliberation. But the reality is that all of his work, and my reasonably informed opinion, isn't worth 20 minutes of an in home audition.
As the brick and mortar paradigm becomes less and less prevalent, those designers that offer in home auditions are going to have a real leg up. Such a program does drive the cost up, but does a lot to ensure happy customers. I am solidly in Charles' "how does it sound" camp. Nothing short of an in home audition satisfies that question.
As a long time Magnepan fan, I spent far too much time shaking my head in uniformed amusement at those who chose to drive their Maggies with 60WPC tube amps. In retrospect, it is a pity I never took the time to do even a casual audition. Too much left brain, not enough right brain. This is music. It is about an emotional response, differential equations notwithstanding.
I think Rebbi has made a great choice, and I am eager to hear how things go with his experiment. |
Rebbi, I haven't yet read the review, but based on your synopsis, it does seem to be a bit perplexing. As you may recall, I also had the problem with the arcing rectifier, and in due course pitched it into the trash can. Arcing may be "normal" but it so what? There was a time when the plague was normal in Europe. Small comfort. I don't quite get why Israel thinks his customers will think this is a non issue. Its not like the stock rectifier is a stellar performer. Perhaps a cheap 5AR4 that doesn't arc would be a better choice. It is unfortunate that Olsher's experience was also marred by a bad cap. Could be he was soured a bit by these events.
Mikirob's tube rolling adventures validate Olsher's observations that tube rolling is a productive exercise. This is not exactly a startling revelation.
I found the tonal balance to be neutral. The dynamo is a very cost effective product, in my estimation. It is not a destination piece, but it is a good choice for someone getting started or building a 2nd system.
I am eager to experience 2nd hand your thoughts on your current project. |
Mikirob, Thanks for thinking of me. I'm still shuttling back and forth between Indiana and Tennessee. I am slowly getting the Tennessee house all set up for the final move when our house in Indy sells. It is tough getting any listening time in. Maybe 6 hours a week if I'm lucky, and most of that is with the main rig. The secondary rig gets a few hours a month. Still love the dynamo, and I am eager to begin some serious tube rolling once I have more time.
This is a busy time. Two houses to take care of, and two days a week lost to travel. The kids were all home over the holidays, so family time has been a high priority. But in time everything will fall into place. |
Charles, I was getting 1 to 2 hikes a week in up until Thanksgiving. I'm booked on the house this week and next, then my boots go back on. |
Len, got a phasing alert on that site. BTW, I'm loving the Guarnari Sibelius. |
Len, early music is Padmore's wheelhouse. No doubt. I read a review of his Schubert that said the same thing as you. For me, Padmore pushes all the right buttons, but his is a different take and will not suit everyone.
We will wait a long time for someone to displace F-D from his wheelhouse.
I have a little experience with Josquin's music. I will check out the Missa. I'll be shocked if it surpasses Schutz or the master. After all, not only were Schutz and Bach geniuses, but they were also Lutherans! :)
I will however keep an open ear and open mind. I got a Monteverdi Vespers in the mail today. I really do want to dip a bit more into the BS (before Schutz) music.
Peace and long life! |
Len, I picked up the William Christie Monteverdi Vespers on Erato. BTW, in the spirit of respecting the thread, Padmore sounds better through an SET amp. |
Agon should rethink policies that embitter assets like Schubert. And Padmore still sounds better through SET amps. |
Rebbi,
Keep your eyes open for a pair of used Coincident Triumph Extreme IIs. If a pair comes up, buy them. However, don't hold your breath waiting for me to sell mine. Not happening, unless I find a pair of used Super Victories. Meanwhile, enjoy! |
