Got to be able to understand what is being sung even when vocals are not prominent or buried in the mix. That's a good sign for the midrange, where most music occurs, and perhaps the single best indicator overall. Usually a good omen for all the rest as well. |
Clear and natural like the high fidelity ultimate reference is working for me now. With a great amount of prat. |
@ audiolabryinth. I can't remember the brand google former nordost designer cables. |
"getting the tone is of course a must and given, however, The presataion and everything else set within differentation to give a holographic image of reality is 90% short commings of most cables but a few world class select few!"
Agreed except that the importance of correct timbre and tonality is precisely where most systems I hear are not accurate and there seems less interest in this to some listeners. I suppose the reason why is many feel this an area where there is less of an issue. What I hear at live performances that is strikingly different than most audio systems is the tone/timbre and pitch of instruments. The best cabling will reveal how true this is in a well sorted high performance system. Soundstaging and imaging will fall in place to the extent the rest of the system is capable of resolving what's on the recording with the best cables and therefore IMHO shouldn't be the emphasis but seems like it generally is in these discussions. |
calvinj, Hi, Do you remember the name of the cables-The Brand,, that that guy had that had the Raidho speakers? you said that the cables was from a designer that left nordost and started his own company? |
Clarity.
I just upgraded the wires in my interconnects from my source to volume control.
As impressed as I was by upgrading the RCA to Furutech 102R, upgrading to their Alpha OCC wires has really done the trick.
The improvement in detail is very enjoyable.
The sound has been cleaned up of a guaze like film that was attached to the instruments.I never really noticed how much was there until I got rid of some more of it.
So, now I've ordered about 16 mtrs for the long runs to the amps.
Hopefully the increase in clarity will continue.
All cables have some kind of sound or sonic signature,no getting around that.
The hard part is that we get accustomed to the sound we get from our current cables and accept that sound as great, good enough or classify it as being mellow and soft.
Until you get to listen to a system that gets closer to the truth,in other words,when you hear a system that is less coloured than your own,you never really know how much music you can be missing when the cables you accept as musical are really just veiling the sound.
My advice is to try as many different cables as you can,but first, seek out a really great system that tells it like it is, and then try to get your system to deliver as much of that sound for what you can afford in cables.
Or, for $500.00 you can DIY a pretty decent 1 mtr pair of IC,that will compete with some cables costing twice as much or more. |
@stringreen@rja@tubegroover. I found high fidelity ct1. I have been very happy with the high fidelity ultimate reference cable that they have. Open,natural and transparent . |
A cable must and formost attribute a realality of being live, if the sound stage is like alot of cables out there to be upfront in your face, instead of the middle of the room, It does not sound real, I have been to and been part of many live shows on stage, litterally two foot from the mains at a show, never has the sound been forward!, that is not real, but a flaw within most cables, getting the tone is of course a must and given, however, The presataion and everything else set within differentation to give a holographic image of reality is 90% short commings of most cables but a few world class select few! |
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I too burned out on trying cables 10 years ago when I went through the "process", it's very fatiguing. The problem is finding one that doesn't rear it's head. Too fast, lean, warm, bright, detailed, not detailed enough etc. The best cables and the most important attribute to me is the one that least alters the signal, the "first do no harm" rule. How does one know? You never absolutely do but through experience you recognize the ones that do it less.
A bit over a year ago I found the cables that did this for me at a higher level than my then reference Stereovox. It only came about through the urging of a friend to try them collectively. A local dealer has been touting and using them for years. When I put them in the system there was a notable improvement in coherence and a removal of an added warmth that I didn't realize was there to the extent it was, subtle but noticable. What was most notable was the improvement of the timbre and a greater sense of the performance of musicians. I don't sweat it on what I may be missing through a "better" cable, there is always different. These are good enough, they meet the most important criteria of "natural" I've come across to date.
If you have a system that requires a "tone control" there are many out there. These cables are NOT for you but to try ONLY if you are completely satisfied with everything else you have in place. Sorry Jmcgrogan, I couldn't help myself, forgive me but it is my experience and belief that many cables are designed with that in mind. The best ones ARE transparent, DO sound natural and most importantly don't bring undue attention to what they are suppose to do, pass the signal. These are the Omega Micro line for me. I'm sure there are others as well and if I find one equal to these there is a good chance I would switch out because these thin ribbons are quite fragile and VERY fussy. |
@anyone had problems with sound coming off the hardwood floors? |
@lse. I also learned that some tweaks you try are also very important in your sound. |
Cable elevators Made a big difference. |
That they disappear so I can focus on bigger fish. |
Well, I'll chime in on this. I'm not sure I can really put my finger on what is most important in cables for me. I guess it would be a general sense of instruments and voices sounding and impressing me more like what I've heard live.
Over the years, I've used a variety of speaker cables, including Goertz Alpha Core MI-2, anti-cables, Morrow SP-2, and some others I don't remember any more.
Now, based on some posts here from an avid proponent of Audioquest cables as being "3-dimensional", I did just receive a new set of speaker cables(Audioquest CV-8). I replaced a set of Goertz MI-2 with the Audioquest last week.
Actually, I've been aware of Audioquest and their DBS system for decades now, but I guess I always dismissed such cable "aids" as gimmicks.
Well, consider me blown over, but the CV-8 cables produced an immediate and unmistakeable improvement over the MI-2. Before and after replacing the cables, I played a demo CD I got from Legacy Audio at the audio show in Austin, TX last spring. On one particular track, there is a guitar being strummed on the left channel, and with the CV-8 the sound of the guitar seems more "placed" in terms of depth from the listener, seems "prettier" sounding, and, most significantly to me, seems to "bloom" as it is strummed harder. I've never really known what audiophiles meant when they used the term "bloom", but I think I now understand a bit. Everything seems more in place and coherent with the CV-8.
Now, I don't know whether this subjective improvement in sound stems from the CV-8 being more "accurate" than the MI-2, or perhaps from some euphonic effect. Either way, I find the sound significantly better to my ears, and that is all that really matters to me. |
calvinj, I'm ok, things could be better, system sounds wonderful, it's going to take time for me to build my system into a super system, I still got to move on to the Tara Labs Evolution Zero and Evolution Omega cables, that will be exspensive, then there is all the tweek enhancements I am doing, you know the deal, it gos on and on, cheers. |
@yping. It should be easy but we all know it can be journey between cable equipment matching etc. |
that they allow the music to sound real, natural, 3D, and involving. Should be easy shouldn't it... |
@audiolabryinth. How are you. I'm glad that I have learned some much this year. I learned a lot about audio but more about people. I have met some really great people in audio this year. I got to meet the guys who make and develop equipment and how smart they are at fixing, modifying and diagnosing issues. I have listened to the top of the heap and budget audio this year. I heard dream systems and what makes them different. I heard some really great stuff and learned a lot. I'm truly thankful for the blessing that god has allowed me to experience this year. It's been a audio blast. I have listened to great stuff from high fidelity cables and be around people who really love this hobby. Some people it's not like that for. They want to put others down to feel better. I won't do that. I've been able to have long listening sessions with extremely high end dream equipment in the last 6 months alone. Wowwww!!! I been on a audio mission. I'm here listening to The jazz of Duke Pearson and Freddie Hubbard and I'm having a blast. @jmcgrogan thanks brother I love my Viennas. I'm going to hold on to them as long as I can they sound great. They make a great speaker. |
I'm glad you are letting me know your history of ownership of these speakers. I have to really think about what I'm doing. The veloce is really a great pre amp. It may cause me to have to upgrade my speakers which I don't want to have to do. The veloce is great. I might have to think about what I'm going to do really hard. The Viennas are speakers I love because of the sonic signature they have. Thank you for sharing the information. It might add some clarity to my thoughts. Lol. |
I like the Vienna Acoustic sound too Calvin. I owned the Beethovens (original) and then the Strauss for a couple of years each about 9-14 years ago. I never had them paired with electronics or cables that were as expensive as you are using back then though. Decent gear, preamps and amps that cost about $3K each, but not mega-buck stuff. When I went upscale with my electronics and cables, I went up to the Verity Audio Parsifal Encores, which were like $21K speakers. Beautiful speakers, visually and sonically.
Since the economic turmoil of 2008, I've scaled back quite a bit, back to some normalcy now. My current setup is about $30K, versus around $125K back about 5 years ago. I have no plans of letting things get out of control again.....unless I hit the lottery. LOL!! |
@jmcgrogan 2. Yes I am using the vienna acoustics beethoven baby grand se. I might need a bigger speaker one day. Has anyone hear the the listz series from vienna acoustics. I like the vienna sound. This veloce stuff is very natural and organic. It's very transparent and has great separation. It is basically one of the beat pre amps I have ever heard in my life. It is very clean with great layering. I'm using the high fidelity ultimate reference speaker cable on it and it is doing well as a system. One other thing the parasound cd1 is delivering great sound to this system. Smooth with no digital glare. |
There is a pretty big difference between the first version of the Veloce line
stage and the second, so-called "Lithio" version; the circuitry,
the tubes used, and in my trials of both versions in my system, the ultimate
sound of the product. I ultimately bought the Lithio version. It replaced a
Lamm L2 Reference, which was very lucid in the mids- organic, continuous,
non-grainy- all that good tube vernacular, but the Lamm is actually a solid
state device with a tube rectified power supply. The Veloce - which uses the
so-called 6H30 "supertube"- mine is loaded with real DRs-
gives me more bandwidth, is not as 'dark' as the Lamm (it is a Russian
thing, but I love his SET amps and use the Veloce with the Lamm ML2s);
has very deep, taut bass with great tone and gives me a lot more high
frequency information. Granted, the L2 has been around for a while, but it
was and remains a serious line stage. The Veloce version 2 takes it up
several notches without giving up anything on midrange ease and
naturalness. (I'm sure Vlad's current big dog line stage is a killer, but it is
,IIRC, more than twice the price of the Veloce).
Since my midrange horn uses no x-over at all, I can hear what the
upstream components are doing, particularly in the mids (I used Quad
electrostats for more than 30 years -57's and Crosbys- so I'm sort of
persnickety about the midrange being 'right.') And, since the speakers are
104db efficient, I can also hear noise within the system that a lot of less
efficient speaker systems would probably mask.
I'm not sure the phono module, which i think piggy-backed on the original
line stage, has any use beyond that, and am virtually positive it cannot be
connected to the current version.
Mark and Vytas, the guys behind Veloce, are genuinely good guys. I don't
shill for products, am not a dealer and rarely get on these sites to promote
what I choose to use. But, well worth a visit to these guys, just to hear what
they are doing, particularly if you've never heard the line stage or heard of
the company 'til now. I'm not going to suggest that this is some world beater
that will slay any other product and is cheap and will make your life better.
I can tell you the thing sounds very convincing in my system, which is pretty
ruthless in sounding bad if everything isn't just so. (Ask anybody that's
heard an Avantgarde Duo sound bad and you'll know what I'm talking
about).
Final note, given the whole battery thing. This thing is not lacking in
dynamics or 'cojones' and the battery system works with no hiccups
whatsoever.
I powered down my system when I was in Austin from January through
May this year. The batteries (which are 'standard' lithium batteries that you
can buy on the open market if and when you need to replace them- i think
they have a life of 5 years) charged to full in about an hour after 5 months
of non-use/no charge. And in normal use- say 6 -8 hour listening session,
the charger kicks in within about a minute after you've shut the line stage
down, and is usually up to full charge and in standby mode before I've
finished closing down the music room (say 5-10 minutes shutting stuff
down, putting records away, final clean of stylus, shutting off air supply to
arm compressor, and all my other rituals). |
Well, how about that? I just did a little research on Veloce, and it turns out that they are based 7 miles away from my home. That's even closer to me than Walker Audio! Small world. I've been over Lloyd Walker's home a couple of times.
Unfortunately, their prices are high enough to keep me away. Maybe I'll keep an eye out for a used LP-1 phono stage, that's about it. |
I wouldn't pay too much attention to rookies lynth and calvin.
They really don't have a clue. |
I never heard of Veloce before you mentioned them Calvin. Then again, I don't keep up with the glossy rags like I used to. Are you still running Vienna Acoustic Beethoven speakers?
That seems like an awful lot of electronics and cables for those speakers if you are. Maybe it's time to upgrade speakers next. Ha! I've been stuck in that trap more often than I care to admit. LOL!! |
@jmcgrogan2 I totally understand the cable burnout. I understand audio burnout. I think this is going to be my final stop. The high fidelity ultimate reference on the veloce right now is about it for me. It is the sound I want. I will eventually go back acquire all this stuff at a later date. I been listening for hours on Friday Saturday and Sundays. That's a sign that I am really happy. I heard good high priced stuff and bad high priced stuff. The high fidelity ultimate reference is great. The veloce combination amp and pre is amongst the best I have heard period. The combination of the two has caused me to have some the best listening sessions I have ever heard. I guess we all chase the ghost. I think I may have caught that ghost this time. Lol. |
Thankyou calvinj, I did not know that veloce was u.s.!, right on man,where in the world did you get turned on to veloce at, or who turned you on to it? |
Cable burnout....I'm with you Lak!!! Just like women, many cables can sound glorious at first, but after living with them for a while, I always seem to find their flaws.....and then their flaws seem to magnify themselves in my mind and I wind up moving on. After a while you realize that they are all just different. Nothing is really better, just different. They all have their strengths and weakness'. |
I haven't spent much money on cables and I love its performance.
I use Mogami silver interconnects that are not top of their own line either. My preference is to silver plated connectors oppose to gold-plated simply for better conductivity. I also purchased a left-over bulk piece of Kimber 8TC 10' run. Spliced them half/half and use no termination at all at neither end.
More natural sound is achieved with copper cables while pure silver cables tend to sound harsh.
The priciest cable I have is part of Technoarm. |
Interesting reading :-).
I'm tired of spending money on cables of all types.
I'll take some time off and just read what you all have to say.
Jmcgrogan2 knows what I'm talking about. I'll bet several of you others are there too? |
It is U.S. Pennsylvania. Battery powered. Not bad power coming out of the ac outlets. Clean, full and transparent sounding. Veloce is a great sounding brand. |
@metralla. It is. It has a sound to die for!!! |
Never heard of that Brand Veloce, where is that made at?, sounds like its foriegn?, I bet it is great, I try to stay U.S.A. equipment, my luck with the over seas stuff for reliability and support does not have a good track record, you of all people know what I am saying,LOL! |
Veloce preamp? Sweet!
Regards, |
Just got the high fidelity ultimate reference speaker cables in my system along with a power cord and a interconnect. @audiolabryinth I had to use a run of the tara labs the one. Lol. However everything is was high fidelity ultimate reference. Now the best part is that I got the veloce amp and pre amp back and set it up today. This sound is to die for. Speed, transparency, soundstage and natural sound. This is the best I have heard at my house. The veloce stuff is all battery power. This veloce combo is special. Good clean power. Musical. Major thumbs up. |
Hi calvinj, My amp was gone 5 weeks and three days, It's back!, sounds fricken awsome needing 500 hours of break-in played 2 hours before we went to bed, re-setting up system took us hours to do before we played the system, The cobalt power cord sounds incredible mated with the Tara Zero Gold and Omega gold cables, the wife said, I have goose bumps running up and down my arms because the sound is so real and natural!, man, I was very pleased to hear that from the wife, she never says much about our hobby, cheers. |
@audiolabryinth. Hey what's up. How are things. I hope you have stopped letting folks rile you up. Lol. These forums can be funny. Lol. |
well I am suprised at the out come here, JMCgrogan2, I know we have in common the presatation of cables, LOL!, No body has said this, why!, A forward presatation is 2-dimensional!, and yes, tone and all that has been said here needs to be acounted for, However, to what I like, I do Not care what a cable does if the presatation is up-front and personal, that is not the way a live event in music sounds, I know this is my opinion, and it does not matter, But the fact that I was a pro musician most of my life on stage as the lead singer, I made sure of what the sound of the band to sound it's best, then I've been to to many concerts and club shows to know what a real presatation is suppose to sound like, when it's up front and forward sounding at shows, I have seen owners of the venue gets mad because everyone leaves!, I wonder why? |
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My broker.
Wanna compare accounts?
LOL |
Judyazblues. Who makes the cable who gets you that sound. Lol. |
@jcmcgrogan2. It's funny how cables can't do it all. You want to try to get as close as you can as much as you can. I have found speed in clarity in my high fidelity ct1 ultimate reference power cord on my amplifier. I hope to get a little more of it in. I have a nice balance of what I was looking for. It took me 5 years. I'm trying the ultimate refernce speaker cables this week. I hope it doesn't get better but im scarred it will. This audio journey is crazy. You climb a mountain and it grows. Lol. |
06-13-14: Dfontalbert
Simply to be unobtrusive - add and detract nothing. Well that is a very common philosophy, but really means nothing in reality. Since no one can compare the sound of any cable directly to the sound of no cable at all, one can only say what the cable sounds like attached to a certain piece of equipment. Whether the sound is favorable or unfavorable could be due to the cable or the piece of equipment. Certain cables will sound better with certain pieces of equipment, but that is more of an electrical match than it is a statement of a certain cables ability to be "unobtrusive". |
The sound of money remaining in my wallet. |
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Simply to be unobtrusive - add and detract nothing. |
I have a stock power cord on my ear. I've heard of audio jewelry, but even this is a bit ridiculous. 8-) |
The Tempo Electric silver speaker cables that I arrived up have bettered all others used. They give me speed, resolution, detail, fullness, weight and what seems to be a natural warmth as opposed to one that tends to dull the sound to achieve the same result. With these cables one can get practically all the above attributes without sacrificing any particular aspect.
The same goes for my Darwin Silver ICs. When properly executed and with enough time for things to settle in, one need not spend too much to get great results.
It's all in the sum of the parts. All parts.
Also, one must not forget to twiddle and tweak the speakers footings (spikes, cones, discs, wood and/or tile bases) as I've discovered just how much the base can add or detract to the sound, enhancing or detracting from what the cables bring to the table.
All the best,
Nonoise |
