Ha, I'd rather be a Brontosaurus than engineered mosquito. Interesting angle of view, Electroslacker. What Sense63 and Carmenc wrote sounds sad. We'll enjoy what we have and will have but next generation..it's very uncertain to say the least. As soon as I can I'll get the biggest baddest amps I can afford and accomodate in my place, believe you me. Let's call it both a tradition and counter-culture. And they sure will sound better than any shiny box. |
...for your listening 'pleasure' and perhaps a form of education:
'Industrial Disease' by Dire Straits.
Still funny, and still wayyy too true.
IMHO, all of y'alls comments have elements of the Truth. Too expensive, too 'niche', too esoteric, too self-limiting in the modern marketplace. We're all discovering that the digital domain is dominating the discussion of the day. And I love alliteration, but that's just me....;)
The 'cultured ear' has become passe'...
I suspect that the majority of those of us who lurk these forums came of age and grew through the maturation of audio reproduction and the means and methods to produce and reproduce it. We witnessed the birth and growth of a market that has become so broad and varied as our tastes in the 'how' we prefer to experience it has mirrored this growth.
You can drink a 5$ bottle of wine or a 500$ version of the same vintage. In a blind test, would you be able to tell the difference if you hadn't sampled both in some fashion previously?
I sincerely doubt it.
We've 'created our own dilemma'.
To the 'newcomer' to 'audio', an all-encompassing system entails an HDTV w/7.1 surround linked to a digital device ('puter, I-whatever,'droid...) w/blueteeth sunk everywhere, controlled by a remote something that controls more than just that system....if they can afford that level of sophistication. And I'm not going to heft the 10' pole towards the economy, geopolitics, and whom y'all want to blame for all of That....
We are being phased out. Your monoblocks are going Class D, like it or not. I'm not going to say that vinyl is going to disappear tomorrow, or even a decade from today. But I have some transcription discs that unless I take an inordinate amount of time and treasure to resurrect them, they will still remain 'curiosities', remnants of an era passed.
'Twas always thus, and will always be such. Things change...and a lot faster than wallets, preferences, and opinions.
*Kicks soapbox into the corner, and stalks off....* |
It seems that elegance and power has gone small and light. So much power in your hand and so many songs on your Pod that big and heavy seems like dinosaurs of old tech. I certainly felt it when I gave my son-in-law my Classe amp. Like giving him my pet Brontosaurus. When everyone had a turntable, fat TV, and a big Dell PC, the high-end stuff looked proportional and cool. |
What sense63 said!
Here is an example. I've always loved ARC gear, but I can't afford it any longer. Even used most of its quite expensive. Recently, I purchased a used Blue Circle tube preamp and solid state amp in mint condition as they were so affordable. Cheaper than many decent integrateds. I was somewhat skeptical at first. After all it's not an ARC, CJ or BAT! To my pleasant surprise, the BC gear sounds wonderful, perhaps some of the best sound I've had. Better than my old BAT gear. I had always heard of Blue Circle, but just gave it no mind as there was always enough of the "big boy's" gear available and I had the disposable income to acquire them. Now, I've become much more frugal. The resale on some of the smaller and lesser known companies' gear just doesn't hold up; good for the buyer though.
More apparently though to me anyway is the fact that most audiophiles are aging and keeping what they have. We've taken years to learn, gain experience and build our systems. Like" jond " said, we're tweaking our systems more so than replacing entire components. Secondly, I don't have to tell you the middle class is dwindling. Many of the high end companies knew this and therefore raised prices accordingly. As an example, the sales of $500.00 to $5000.00 speakers has declined while the sales of speakers over $5k has risen. Even when these are resold, not cheap. As a previous boater, I can tell you there is definitely a parallel. Heck a few years ago a middle class family could get a really decent boat for a very competitive price. Now, runabouts are priced like cruisers used to be. Exponential increases! I could ramble all night, so I'll finish by saying:
Lesson if any...let's enjoy what we have and be thankful every time we put on our favorite music to relax and unwind. Regards......
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There have been several interesting answers above and I'd like to offer some more.....
We are living in a time when even relatively "inexpensive" gear has gotten really good sounding. If you've been in this hobby for any length of time, you start to realize that the more expensive the gear is, doesn't always mean better sounding. Having gone to several shows like AXPONA, it becomes clear that most of the uber expensive rooms sound ok....not great. I started making it a game to seek out the lesser known companies to hear their gear and compare them to the better known names. In almost every case, the smaller companies produced gear that sounded as good or better than the others. Many of them were also made in the US which is a big plus for me. The customer service tends to be stellar with these manufacturers.
I also believe there is a move toward simplification with gear. I'm over 50 and I'm getting tired of lifting amps and preamps that weigh over 75 lbs or 45 lbs respectively. After 2 back surgeries, I'm not willing to take the chance anymore.
I've decided to move to speakers that are higher efficiency and integrateds that don't weight 65 lbs, but sound really good. An example would be to compare one of the choices the OP gave: Lavardin. I've owned the IT and it sounds good, but I recently heard about a small company from the UK by the name of Sonneteer and decided to give them a try at a fraction of the price. In my system, the Sonneteer Alabaster is a much more musical and enjoyable integrated amp. It retails for $2400 and the Lavardin IT retails for $9500 (I believe). A no brainer.
I also hear from other audio friends that they are nervous about the economy and with the prices of used gear falling like a rock, they are holding on to what they have. I think the word used above by audiotomb was content.
I've also noticed that more and more of my friends would rather spend some extra money going to local concerts now rather than keep chasing the unobtainable.
Just my 2 cents.
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Mapman said "that and also stagnant wages and rising cost of living probably has something to do with it." Stagnating here for years in SoCal and cost of living just keeps going right on up. Puts that Mbl system right out of reach for me too. |
uber expensive equipment on the way out, even a lottery winner can see most modern hi fi is a bad value. |
Seriously...Krell, KEF, Audio Research, Harbeth. Someone tell, me, "WHAT is going on?????" |
Maybe we don't want because we can't. In any case, let's stay alive a little longer. Vladimir too. |
As others have said summer is usually slower and also a lot of folks who've been doing this a long time are getting to the point where they make changes more infrequently. I know I used to churn through a lot of gear but not my $ is mostly spent on ancillaries, tubes, footers, cables etc. And please can we leave politics out of this?
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Hey, after all "Who wants to live forever?"
I believe it's not me and I guess it's not Vladimir Shushirin. Anyone? |
Well, let's hope Vladimir Shushirin lives long. I believe, there will be a few places that will service pieces like Lamm and Rowland. If not, they only need service every ten years, and if this becomes impossible in ten years, that's all right. Lamm has a cult following, those amps will be serviceable for a very long time, little doubt. Biggest problem might be special tubes that he uses, matched to each unit. If you will forgive this, I don't need this vintage Japanese junk, either serviceable or not. |
Vladimir Lamm when had different last name, he also would provide schematics to his equipment known as Amphiton manufactured in early-mid 80's. I’ve had Amphiton when I was in 7th or 8th grade, but now my children are even older. When he’s gone, the equipment won’t be serviceable, but those vintage Pioneers and Sansui will be. Hi-end temporary and good vintage stuff is forever. How many high-end equipment isn’t serviceable anymore today? Wholebunchalot for sure.
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i may start a gofundme page for those wilson alexandrias that just came up ...lonely audiophile seeks help getting alexandria ..lmao
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I’d say there’s a good chance fewer people are dissatisfied these days with what they already have leaving a smaller market for the true "high end" stuff.
Many have good quality cellphones to start with these days and with the many good quality headphones and even Bluetooth speakers available these days for not very much few have little need for much else to listen to music with.
Not to mention all the other entertainment options people have out there these days.
So basically a lot of competition for a lot less out there.
that and also stagnant wages and rising cost of living probably has something to do with it.
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Czarivey, you just, unintentionally I believe, called me an idiot, along with many others. I would buy those Lamms in an instant if I could. They last for decades and at least for now can be easily and inexpensively serviced by Lamm. The Rowland 8T that I mentioned is great too and again can be serviced without a problem. Servicing French made electronics could be a little more difficult, I don't know, but even sending not too heavy units to Europe should not be much of a problem for an audiophile. Just call the factory, pack the thing well and get it shipped without leaving your home. |
Certainly, an upcoming election and poor consumer confidence for openers... |
@inna , yes, traditionally summer is the slower season, as many spend their disposable income on other ventures, vacations, boats, etc.
However, last winter was the slowest winter I recall seeing on the used market for sellers in over two decades, even pre-dating Audiogon. |
Now is the era of vintage receivers Pioneer SX xx80, sansui G 7000 or higher. Folks realized that they sound super good and very often better than current hi-end units. In addition there's a HUGE advantage of having free service manuals with schematics over any current unit that doesn't have it. So to make long story short -- vintage receivers and amps are forever and other hi-end is temporary. Who's going to buy $5...10k 10...20 years old Lamm monoblocks? Only fools, because the smart one would look for serviceable unit.
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Jmcgrogan2, I think you are right about the declining audiophile pool, I have this impression too, at least people keep more to themselves. Whenever I read or participate in a discussion here, there are few active participants, it used to be different. And I remember more challenging economic times when prices were relatively higher and good pieces got bought quickly. Still, it's summer time, we'll see. Whatever it is, I don't like it, even concerned. I might be able to save thousand dollars on my next purchase, but if it continues the outcome will not look good at all. |
It's been a buyers market for over a year now. Probably a variety of reasons, declining pool of audiophiles, declining incomes, upcoming elections causing lack of consumer confidence.
Who knows? All I know is it's a great time to be a buyer, but a terrible time to be a seller. Yet manufacturers continue to raise their prices.....hmmmm. |
Nop, The number of fools decreases. |
Wow i was thinking about that . |
The dingos ate your baby. |
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Out of college, money spent See no future, pay no rent All the money's gone, nowhere to go Any jobber got the sack Monday morning, turning back Yellow lorry slow, nowhere to go But oh, that magic feeling, nowhere to go Oh, that magic feeling, nowhere to go Nowhere to go
Aaaaahhhhhhhhhh... Aaaaahhhhhhhhhh... Aaaaahhhhhhhhhh...
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