I’m no cartridge expert.... Is it even possible to build a MC cartridge with a removable stylus like MM’s? I’m guessing not or there would be plenty out there. I recentlu learned that early Ortofon Concordes were MC. Who knew
What happens when the stylus tip wears out on a $12,000 cartridge?
There is no shortage of stereo phono cartridges with 5-figure price tags. What do you do when the stylus tip wears out? Do any/some/all manufacturers of these cartridges provide or offer a re-tipping service? Or do you just lay out another 12 or 15 grand for a new cartridge? Sorry for my ignorance - the Denon DL-103R/Lithium Audio Musikraft shell I currently use is the most expensive cartridge set-up I’ve ever owned. I’ve had a couple re-tipped by Soundsmith in the past for $200 - 300. What do you guys at the other end of the price spectrum do?
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Anything's possible, but practicality is another matter. There's no natural air gap to serve as an easy separation point like with MM or MI. An MC is literally hardwired from stylus tip to lead outs - where every micrometer is incredibly delicate. You could create separation ability with custom contacts, but where? Anywhere before the coil is too delicate and would add too much moving mass, negating the performance of an MC. After the coil, and what's the point? You're replacing the most expensive parts of the cartridge right there, so economically it's not viable, and probably sacrificing some alignment tolerances too. |
@mulveling Ahhh that makes sense. I did some research the Concorde 200 MC cartridge did have a removable stylus and so did a Sony MC (70's). So I'm guessing from what you said, if it were practical and worry free we would still be seeing them. |
Couldn't agree more! Great guy to deal with!
"Before you buy it, check with Steve Leung at VAS, ask him if he can re-tip and/or rebuild suspension/cantilever/tip. Worse than wear would be bending or snapping the cantilever. I sometimes buy broken cartridges that I know he can rebuild. I ask him first, he tells me which ones are bad choices to work on." |
@lewm sure the magnet & pole pieces of an MC generally sit outside of things, but the rest of it is hard connected: stylus > cantilever > joint pipe > armature / coils > lead outs. Where does one choose to create the "break", and how does that affect moving mass, tolerances, field-replacement difficulty, and replacement costs? |
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What could be offered as a simplistic method ??, as a means to experience different Cantilever Styli assemblies would be on where the Joint Pipe projecting from the Armature, was a Threaded Stub. A Cantilever that is commonly seen inserted into the Joint Pipe, can have an assembly where the Joint Pipe is internally threaded and pre-bonded into the Cantilever. This would leave the connection of the Cantilever to the Armature as a method not needing adhesives, which should then have a set up where Cantilevers are at much less risk of being damaged when exchanging. The idea of not using adhesives, will make a Cantilever exchange much more predictable and possibly more affordable, hence making the idea of experiencing differing C'lever>Styli forms a easier one to ponder. A Third Party Service could quite easily produce a Cart' that enables for this to be part of the design, and could have a sales model in place that prior to purchase enables the buyer to have a option to experience different configurations, such as Styli Type, Cantilever Material, Connector Sleeve Material. Everything I have learned about Cart's especially MC's, leaves me of the view the Styli form has the least overall impact on the sound being produced. The most that influences the sound being produced in order, is the Magnetic System chosen, the Coil Wire Type, Damper Material Type and the overall structures function, as a result of materials chosen for the Cart's assembly. All that I have experiences of, leaves me of the view, that if there was a Cart' with Cantilever Part, that had a bonded threaded sleeve as the coupling to Armature method. If this was able to be supplied in a variety of materials, there will be materials used that will show a noticeable difference to a sound being produced. Or forget such ideas, maybe sticking with with what is a time served proven method, ' if it isn't broke why attempt to fix it . ' |
No Way - You’ll have to Live With It. Go to the Orthography Forums out there and do the lurking , it will be much better suited to some of the Whingers who lurk on the Gon. DT Quoted " I love the poorly educated." DT Loves me 😍, hopefully in a similar manner all the Performers of music over the years have Loved 😍🤩me as a fan. |
Use Stylast on every play and the issue will never come up. My dealer looked at my 5 year old Benz under the microscope and said it looked brand new. This thing got daily use. * Also sounds better. This won't help with enthusiastic kids or cleaning ladies in which case Benz will rebuild your cartridge.
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The cantilever can be removed from ferrule. The ferrule and armature are held in place by the tension wire. You can also replace the entire assembly by loosening the screw holding the tension wire and pulling the whole thing out after removing the front pole piece. I think this is what the manufacturers do. I am not sure what adhesive is used on the proximal end of the cantilever but it does not have to be near as strong as the one that holds the stylus on. I do know what happens when they forget to apply the adhesive. I had a cartridge the stylus wound up pointing at 8 o'clock instead of 6 o'clock. The stress of tripping the end of record lift was enough to turn the cantilever in the ferrule. It was covered quickly under warranty. |
Not one idea that will be proposed by the average thinker for a MC Cart' to have a simplistic exchangeable Cantilever/Styli assembly will be one would be Cart' owner friendly as is the MM methodology for C'lever/Styli exchanges. The designs I see that can be put on the table by 'Mr Average Thinker', are ones that would have the need of a professional technician to carry the procedure, as being invasive of the very very fragile assembly is unavoidable in a typical MC design needing a new part? A design that has low man hour needs to complete the exchange and the notion that fragile parts are much more protected from associated risks for being damaged, might? make the idea of having a Cart' with easier to exchange C'lever / Styli as an attractive option for learning and assessment about materials effects on changes to produced sound produced with differing materials used for the assembly at this interface. Being myself an 'Mr Average Thinker', I can't see much more value to attempting to carry out such a design. In the hey day of MM, it was not uncommon and at the present still here but less common, to see off the shelf parts as a C'lever / Styli assembly, that is using different materials from those selected by the OEM for certain MM Cart's. |
@pindac I think you are suggesting MC cartridges might be made with interchangeable stylus/cantilever assemblies? And you would make it simple and perhaps not require a technician? How would you suggest getting around the stumbling block of the connections between the coils on the proximal end of the cantilever and the output pins? |
As stated " I am Mr Average Thinker ' on such a Subject. I have 'thought' about the Cantilever to Armature Interface being a mechanical coupling being one that is not dependent on adhesive and be a coupling that is more in relation as a coupling, that is similar to the micro mechanics found in certain watch designs. I don't see any further need to flog to death, this very basic idea. |
What goes into producing a $15K Cart' from one Brand, that separates it as a construction from another Brands Cart' $3K, $6K or $10K. It is already known that certain Cart's in the US are offered at $10K and can be imported to the door from Country of Manufacture for close to 50% less as a purchase, Shipping and Import Levy will need to be added. So a $10K Cart' through certain suppliers has been a $5K cart' plus shipping + Import Levy + Importers Mark Up. What has also been learned the Hard Way, is that the Importers Mark Up was very well protected through their offering a 90 Day Warranty limitation. |
Harold Weiler wrote about the wear and care of records and styli back in the mid-’50s. The book is long out of print and can be found, among other places, on the Shure site (though as far as I know, Shure had nothing to do with the original publication). I got onto this from Mike Bodell, who was studying more modern cartridges that track at far lower weights and use more advanced stylus shapes than the conicals of the day. One of the fascinating things about Weiler’s study is that he worked with QC personnel at a record company, who could discern when a stylus was worn. Weiler was initially unconvinced, but spent enough time with them to hear what they were encountering. Fast forward to 2019 or so. Mike Bodell wrote a more modern study (which I published) called The Finish Line for Your Phonograph Stylus. In doing so, he tried to bring some of Weiler’s work up to date. It is a worthwhile read. In essence, Mike (who was a geologist, so knows a little about "rocks" and a seasoned audio guy as well) concluded that the life spans cited for a lot of modern cartridges are extremely optimistic and represent a sort of outer limit. Mike has some pretty good suggestions, apart from keeping your records and stylus clean-- using a simple tally counter (a clicker) to keep track of the number of sides played- you can do the math in your head. I do have one of those fairly hard to find Shure stylus microscopes here, but in truth, have no training to evaluate the condition of the stylus. One of his associates, Ray Parkhurst, who did the macrophotography for Mike’s piece, separately conducted an informal experiment using a very light tracking cartridge, with little visual evidence of wear after quite a number of hours. However, the market today doesn’t really support those types of cartridges- I remember them but don’t use any. I have a number of good cartridges. Peter L. retipped my Airtight Supreme by preserving the cantilever and motor assembly and inserting a new diamond stylus. When it comes time to retip the Koetsus I have here, I’ll have to cross that same bridge- I want to retain the character of the original cartridge, now that the company appears to be moribund. Anyway, a good read, both Weiler and Bodell’s updated approach to the topic. |
